The Faces of "Free-Range" Farming

[LeftyMom]

Run time: 04:35 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7Gbq3lkKwY   Posted on YouTube: November 15, 2007 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: November 19, 2007 By DU Member: LeftyMom Views on DU: 2502

 

[knitter4democracy]

1. I've seen chickens like that at a small family farm.

I reported them to their county animal control. They'd been working up a case against the farm for a bit, apparently, and needed all the evidence they could get. I went looking for wool and was horrified at the conditions I found there, especially for the "show" chickens and rabbits (to show in county fairs and sell).

I've also been to small farms with a few sheep that were spotless, have loving, happy animals who were obviously well-cared for, and whose owners would never, ever slaughter their animals, instead burying them on the property when it's their time to go. Not all small family farms follow those practices mentioned in the film. It's best to investigate and visit if you're not sure.

[Omaha Steve]

2. K&R

For those who can't speak up for themselves! Geez I had to come back to give it the R!

[Mojorabbit]

3. This film says all farms are like this

and that is not true. I have friends who raise free range chickens who roam happily with no debeaking nor any of the other practices she mentions. I have four chickens myself who are spoiled rotten and treated very well.

[LeftyMom]

4. 4 backyard chickens does not equal a commercial farm

The "free range" chicken meat and eggs at the store? They come from chickens like these.

[Mojorabbit]

14. I said I have four chickens.

my FRIEND has a small farm and raises free range chickens for market and they are not treated like this. The film says ALL free range chickens are raised this way and I say I know a farm where they are not. Thats the point I was trying to make.

[MADem]

44. I don't buy the "All Farms" bs either. I've seen good sized farms where

the chickens look like chickens, not like that.

[Islander Expat]

5. Lemme get this right...free range simply means you raise your birds outside where they have room ...

right?

These birds weren't free ranged, these are abused cooped birds, where does the title of this post come from?

This is just propaganda, I raise chickens and turkeys and I don't know anybody that has chickens that look that bad, and I'm in a 3rd world country.

I'm an animal lover, but I don't like being bullshitted by either side.

[LeftyMom]

6. "free range" means no battery cages

That's it legally, and in the commercial operations here, it usually means thousands of chickens in a metal shed.

[Dover]

18. Yes I've seen that first hand as well. It just depends on the farmer, though.

The bigger and more commercial they are, perhaps the worse the conditions.

However, the one I saw I happened on quite by mistake (looking for a local auction) was a relatively small operation. The farmer asked me if I was from the big food co-op or animal rights and I told him I was simply lost and looking for the auction. That's when he proudly displayed his shed of 'free range' chickens which was so full they could barely move. He thought it was really funny that 'hippies' wanted 'happy chickens' and felt justified in his deception. More chickens, more money...that simple.

[flvegan]

7. You'd be incorrect, sir.

"Free Range" here in the states means just that. No cages.

I've been on a couple "free range" farms, and I have seen this very thing. 'Tis not bullshit nor propaganda.

Likely your "3rd world country" treats animals better than we do here.

[Taverner]

8. Vegetarians win the ethical debate

Problem is, how does one bell the cat?

[flvegan]

9. Bell the cat?

You lost me with this one, Tav. Can you rephrase it?

[Taverner]

10. You know, the old Aesop's Fable

The mice all get around and decide they want to do something about that damn cat that keeps eating them. So they all agree that the best solution is to put a bell on the cat so they know when he's coming. One of the mice speaks up and asks "Great idea, but who will bell the cat?"

My point is, Vegetarians are ethically right, but going vegetarian is not an easy process. Kind of like putting a bell on a cat if you're a mouse.

Not to say you shouldn't try...

[Taverner]

11. On second look, I see I put 'with' instead of 'win'

Damn ale! I blame you for all typos!

[flvegan]

12. But

if the cat was vegetarian, the mice wouldn't need a bell.

Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week.

Humor aside, adopting a vegetarian diet may or may not be easy depending on the person. I know a number of folks that eat meat and go to a much greater length for their diet than I do by seeking out truly humane farms from which to acquire their food. I got no problems with that. However, they'd have an easier time as a vegetarian.

[Taverner]

13. It is hard, if you truly absolutely love meat

Of course, I could limit my meat eating to other classes instead of Mammalia

Especially if you agree with Peter Singer's ethical examination.

[flvegan]

23. It's difficult to give up what you enjoy.

I still miss swordfish...and seafood newburg.

Don't get me started on cheese pizza and lobstah, either.

[Islander Expat]

15. They do, anyone with birds like that would be called on the carpet by their neighbors

or people would simply stop buying their eggs.

Here we still know where our food comes from.

[flvegan]

19. And you and yours should be applauded.

In too many cases, here in the ole states, we forgot. It's all about money.

That's why it's not propaganda. It's not lies.

[upi402]

21. True that 3rd world countries have true free range chickens

but they still kill them and eat them soon enough. I have seen decent treatment followed by, "It's us or the animal!" action. And they always pick 'us' and cut the head of the animal off, cook it and eat it.

In fact, they often let their ducks fly free and count them when they return at night to feed in the shed. Safe from predators- (they think). "Hey! Anyone seen Donald?".

I had to give up my vegan ways when I became a single dad. I had no time to figure proteins and soak beans. No way, it was survival. So I buy free range and HOPE this is not what's really going on. Alas... shit.

Ya know, all the felony animal abuse TV shows seem foolish when you know what's going on down at the farm. I bet all those animal Officers stopped at Mickey D's before filming the big crackdown on Gramma.

[LeftyMom]

42. You don't have to count protein and soak beans.

Fuck, I should know. I'm a single mom, I work full time and I'm a full time student. That's a schedule that, on a good day, leaves me enough spare time to do most of my homework on my lunch hour at work and squeeze a shower in before bed.

And I've been vegan five years and change now. Nothing wrong with beans from cans, or for that matter bean burritos (hold the cheese) handed out drive-through windows.

[upi402]

48. i hear ya. no drive-thrus for us tho. i was vegan for 12 years

and really like it best. wild salmon and chicken is all we do. maybe turkey. but it will get easier as the little one gets older and can help/ needs less...

i did the dad/student/fulltime job thing too. what a burn out. hat's off to you. you are now my hero cuz i didn't last long.

[Kali]

16. What a crock of shit.

[flvegan]

20. Intriguing argument

The points you make have convinced me.

Way to go.

[Kali]

24. like the moronic naration of that video convinced me

like I said - what a crock of shit

If that is the best you can come up with, some quasi european accented woman choking up over "rescued" chickens and claiming ALL FARMING is bad, well, keep up the good work, obviously there are a few idiots that fall for it, but I suspect its really going to be a long time before you convince many with that kind of sappy garbage.

[flvegan]

25. Let's stick with facts, and set emotion aside, k?

You suggest that what's set forth in the video is NOT the case, largely? I'm not talking about the family farm where folks honestly DO care about the care and welfare of their animals.

[Kali]

27. Your girlfriend posts a video that is ALL emotion and you want to set it aside?

Did you listen to the narration? She makes the claim "all farms" repeatedly. Its all about halting all use of animals. Am I wrong about that fact?

I'll gladly set aside emotion when the animal "rights" movement does the same.

[flvegan]

29. Good post, cattle rancher (since you made it personal).

Yet, I'm not taking your bait.

My statements stand.

Take it as you want, animal profiteer. (see how ugly it gets when we play the game that way?)

[Kali]

31. Ugly?

Sorry, I feel no shame about living from my animals. Profit is just an economic concept, it isn't anything shameful or ugly in and of itself either.

"All farms" - the language is clear, the agenda is clear.

So you keep up with the deceitful and emotional manipulation of the ignorant and I will keep calling you on it. Have a good one.

[Danieljay]

32. Amen. n/t

[flvegan]

35. Didn't you give up/cave in/tap out/cry to mama further downthread?

[Kali]

38. woo!

you must be the big winner!

[flvegan]

41. Is that it?

Wah for you and your point(s), I guess.

[flvegan]

34. In other words

you got nothing.

I mean, you've offered nothing to the contrary. Your "boo hoos" aside, you've put nothing up that would offer another side of the story of the OP.

Have you?

[Kali]

36. I got "all farms"

you ever going to address that? talk about "got nothing"

I have no idea what the "story of the OP" is, other than a sappy narration over some video of a bunch of chickens and other domestic livestock. Some of the chickens look pretty sorry but certainly not all of them (and why haven't the "rescuers" cleaned them up and treated them or euthanized them?). Are animal confinement operations the subject or are we talking about the manipulation of people's emotions to further an agenda of NO animal use whatsoever? Hmmm?

[flvegan]

37. Cling to two words and dismiss the message. Got it.

Thanks.

[Kali]

39. are two words too many for you?

still waiting......emotional manipulation, no animal use-agenda, all farms bad

guess you are never going to address my points, so I better let you have the last word and win. I need to go to sleep. Gotta get up early and profit off my animals. 'night.

[flvegan]

40. ad hom

Still waiting, nothing. You never have, nor ever will answer a direct question. Pity, cuz I do like you (that's a personal thing).

Buh bye, mark.

[Danieljay]

17. Another good reason to say grace before Thanksgiving turkey!

[flvegan]

22. Finally, maturity rears his/her head.

Not.

Gawd yer kool.

[Danieljay]

26. "By the same power that slays you , I to am slain; and I too shall be consumed"

I dont exactly like the way its done either, but I'm not going to stop eating meat to make a point. Its the circle of life my friend. In order live, something must die. Thats why there is thanks-giving for the sacrifice. Eat with gratitude.

Kahlil Gibran: The Prophet - Chapter 6: Eating and Drinking

Then an old man, a keeper of an inn, said, "Speak to us of Eating and Drinking."

And he said:

Would that you could live on the fragrance of the earth, and like an air plant be sustained by the light.

But since you must kill to eat, and rob the young of its mother's milk to quench your thirst, let it then be an act of worship,
And let your board stand an altar on which the pure and the innocent of forest and plain are sacrificed for that which is purer and still more innocent in many.

When you kill a beast say to him in your heart,

"By the same power that slays you, I to am slain; and I too shall be consumed.
For the law that delivered you into my hand shall deliver me into a mightier hand.

Your blood and my blood is naught but the sap that feeds the tree of heaven."

And when you crush an apple with your teeth, say to it in your heart,

"Your seeds shall live in my body,

And the buds of your tomorrow shall blossom in my heart,

And your fragrance shall be my breath,

And together we shall rejoice through all the seasons."

And in the autumn, when you gather the grapes of your vineyard for the winepress, say in you heart,

"I to am a vineyard, and my fruit shall be gathered for the winepress,

And like new wine I shall be kept in eternal vessels."

And in winter, when you draw the wine, let there be in your heart a song for each cup;

And let there be in the song a remembrance for the autumn days, and for the vineyard, and for the winepress.

[flvegan]

28. Yeah but Gibran was wrong. Wrong. Might hurt, but I said it.

Waxing prophetic and all...

I'm sure that your enlightened mind has read Gibran's full works on freedom, etc, yes?

[Danieljay]

30. Oh boy. Youre boring me with your vegetarian righteousness. Eat your vegies in peace my friend.

Continue your vegetarian ways and allow me my omnivorous life in peace. Oh, and your OPINIONS regarding Gibran are not hurtful at all. I dont give them any more value than I do your opinion about vegetarianism. Enjoy your lentil soup and tofu.

[flvegan]

33. That's it?

What a disappointment. Wow. Okay, then. Peace.

Gotta admit, I expected more/better.

[nosmokes]

43. As a farmer I know ths: You gotta have some manure on a successful

organic farm. And green manure doesn't cut it 100%. And while animals can be a high maintenance item, they're also a high profit item and most small family farmers and market farmers need that extra chunk of change that a couple of cows or a few goats/sheep/hogs can bring in. Not to mention the by-product. SO as a vegetarian or as a vegan you're still profiting from the toil of an animal. But hell, we all hafta make a living ya know?

[LeftyMom]

46. nah, you don't

1. Google "veganic"

2. But it is a lovely way to introduce disease (google "spinach recall, e coli")

3. We live in a society that's structured to exploit animals, true. But we also live in a society structured to exploit people. Those are challenges, not excuses for maintaining the status quo.

[nosmokes]

47. Truly you do. and e-coli isn't a problem in properly composted manure.

[bridgit]

49. The article further stated. “Suslow found that the test plots Fontes treated with composted winery

"...waste -- a concentrate of grape skins, seeds and stems called pomace -- consistently had the highest levels of bacteria compared with vegetable fields enriched with composted manure and those left untreated. "I felt (pomace) was a potential risk factor that needed to be looked at." While none of the bacteria was of the deadly type -- Escherichia coli 0157: H7 -- Suslow suspects that the high residual sugars that make pomace especially good for plant growth also could promote growth of the toxin. E. coli 0157 doesn't naturally occur in pomace. But it could be introduced to pomace in compost yards, which may include raw manure. The disease-causing microbe lives in the gut of cattle and other warm-blooded animals and is found in their feces.”'

Up-article, while equally troubling;

'There is a definite time correlation between the initiation of Monterey County’s use of treated sewage water as an irrigation source and the huge increase in pathogen outbreaks with Salinas Valley vegetables. About 384 outbreaks linked to produce occurred in the six years between 1998 and 2004, which is about twice the 190 that happened in the 24 years from 1973 to 1997. This information was provided by Dr. Michael Lynch at this week’s FDA hearing in Oakland, California. Lynch is a doctor with the Foodborne and Diarrheal Disease Branch of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

So in a period of six years there was a 200% increase in the number of pathogen outbreaks compared to the previous 24 years? I ask rhetorically, doesn’t that fact connote a problem? Isn’t it interesting that the year 1998, the beginning year of this 200% increase, is the same year that Monterey County initiated its sewage treated water irrigation program on 12,000 acres?'

http://www.californiaprogressreport.com/2007/03/hiding_the_ball.html

you are right about one thing sadly, this society is predicated upon the exploitation too many things, animals being among them :(

[Pooka Fey]

45. Lovely posting. Thanks, I will remember this.