Are You Gonna End Bush Tax Cuts For The Rich? Hell NO! You'll Just Screw Poor People More!

[Chisox08]

Run time: 12:01 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fte04nCgLhI   Posted on YouTube: June 17, 2011 By YouTube Member: MOXNEWSd0tCOM Views on YouTube: 301   Posted on DU: June 18, 2011 By DU Member: Chisox08 Views on DU: 6747

 

[watajob]

1. We're dead.

The "progressive" caucus is willing to accept benefit cuts? Dems are the new GOP.

[Dokkie]

3. We are not dead

What do you suppose to do when a people start living 10-20yrs longer? Like it or not, SS was not designed for the current American lifespan and raising the retirement age as lifespan increases is the only sensible thing to do.

[rampart]

5. retirement age

the only sensible thing to do, if i understand you, is to raise rhe retirement age for coal miners because lawyers are living longer?

[JDPriestly]

17. The courts are full of senile lawyers and judges. It is really a problem.

Your body may still appear to be functioning, but your reflexes slow. Employers do not like that.

I have to add that law, especially litigation, is an extremely stressful profession. It is not hard on the muscles, but because of the computer work and the reading involved, a lot of lawyers develop serious back problems.

Further, the ups and downs of law are very, very stressful. (Remember litigation is about winning or losing. Even compromises, settlements are really losses or wins. The lawyer is responsible for his clients' futures. It is a huge responsibility.) Many lawyers are type A personalities to begin with. Add a little weight and the sleepless nights that are spent preparing for trials and motions, and you have a recipe for strokes, heart disease and other problems.

So, judges tend to work a long time. But they are at the top of the legal totem pole. They are free to yell at the lawyers, ignore the law and precedent and vent their personal prejudices as much as they wish. Appeals sound easy but are actually only rarely successful and way beyond the means of most clients.

Lawyers face a lot of other causes for stress way beyond say, grade school teachers or sales personnel.

Nurses are a professional group that cannot work beyond a certain age. The lifting and other physical work is too demanding.

Doctors seem to work a long time, but they are an exception.

So, even if a job does not involve the heavy lifting or extreme physical stress of coal mining, it is highly unlikely that Americans will be able to work much beyond the ages of 65 or 70. Not unless we find ways to correct problems with the spine, the slowing reaction times, the loss of quick recall, arthritis and heart disease (not to mention diabetes). We may be able to control the symptoms of some of these conditions but probably not well enough to enable older employees to handle the demands of today's employers.

We need stringent, new labor laws that would really protect older employees as well as disabled and slightly disabled employees. The minute your employer notices that your hands are shaking or stiff or that you do not hear or see well any more, he or she panics a bit. Shaking, stiffness, poor hearing, poor vision are all excuses for firing a person. And the percentage of people who begin to have these conditions starting in their late 50s and early 60s is very high. These conditions worsen gradually over time.

Watch what is happening to the older workers who are not in the management in your workplace. Open your eyes to what they are going through. It will deeply sadden you in most cases.

[Enthusiast]

21. Exactly..........nt

[Ramulux]

6. You are lying

When Social Security was created it was believed that at this point in time people would be living longer than they are. The original commission planned for extended life spans. So you are lying when you say that SS was not created for the current American lifespan, it was created with the expectation that we would be living longer than we are.

Secondly, why should someone who has worked for 45 years doing hard manual labor be forced to retire later? Do you understand that most poor people have to work longer hours and do much more physically intensive jobs than people who went to college and have a high-paying less stressful job? Its insane to expect a construction worker who practically makes minimum wage to retire later along with people who make massive amounts of money while working in a comfortable office.

Social Security is also not in economic trouble in any way. It pays out 100% of benefits for the next 30 years and then it pays out 75% forever. Thats assuming that our economy doesn't grow at all, that we dont fix our deficit problem at all and we make no attempt to reform the system. All you have to do to fix Social Security is remove the income cap. The longer you force people to work, the harder it is for the younger generation to get jobs also.

There is no legitimate reason anyone should be talking about raising the retirement age. It would only have a negative economic effect and its unfair to people who have been paying into the system their whole lives.

[Enthusiast]

22. Thank you.

Your's is an excellent and concise explanation.

[bahrbearian]

28. Nicely said, thank you.

[jeaps]

35. could not agree more

in addition, the wealthy generally have better health care leading to longer life spans.

[Dokkie]

43. ok, here it goes

Your reply is filled with half truths and hyperbole. I will try to address your post without calling anybody a liar.

Is there any evidence to back up your point that Social security was created to adjust to increased life expectancy? I will search for the link that supports my claim and until you show evidence(link), you cannot accuse me of lying.

Secondly, Germany has their retirement age at 67 yrs and need I remind you that Germany has a higher percentage of manufacturing/industrial workers than the US and they are doing just fine with 67yr retirement age, you act as if there is something magical about 65. I understand your concern with labour intensive workers but that can be negotiated in the deal. And about construction workers making minimum wage, that is so far away from the truth cos I can tell you that they make at minimum double the minimum wage.

On paper social security is on solid ground, it has record surplus to last it for decades to come but in reality, the $2 trillion plus is tied up in US treasury bonds. Right now, SS is paying out more than its taking in, we are fighting 5 wars, we are facing the debt ceiling and theres a phobia on both side of the political party to raise taxes with that said, how confident are you that SS trust fund is going to see all that money owed to it by the US govt?

I hate to break it to you, but there is a legitimate reason to talk about raising the retirement age.

[starroute]

7. Life expectancy is already decreasing in many parts of the US

There was a thread here a day or two ago that discussed the regional differences.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4885082

"In 2007, life expectancy across counties ranged from 65.9 to 81.1 years for men and 73.5 and 86 years for women."

"Nationwide, life expectancy for American men and women has risen over the last two decades, and some U.S. communities still boast life expectancies as long as any in the world, according to newly released data. But over the last decade, the nation has experienced a widening gap between the most and least healthy places to live. In some parts of the United States, men and women are dying younger on average than their counterparts in nations such as Syria, Panama and Vietnam."

[Badsam]

15. And we pay the most for health care. Go figure

[The Wizard]

56. Raising the retirement age

raises unemployment as job openings from attrition get reduced. Lowering the retirement age will create job openings and reduce unemployment. It's a better way to circulate money into the economy than the proven failure of tax cuts fro the wealthy elites.
The very idea that tax cuts for the moneyed elites will be borne on the backs of the elderly and infirm is a reflection of a culture going down the crapper.

[DailyGrind51]

19. People over 50 can't get hired, how is someone 65+ supposed to find a job?

The ability to work and the ability to find work are mutually exclusive, what is a senior supposed to rely on for income?

[wordpix]

40. +1000 -- the brilliant pinheads in DC can't see past their noses so they can't answer that

[NorthCarolina]

25. People living 10-20yrs longer? In America?? BS - Show me the data.

Or do you just take the word of a DC politician that this is somehow "fact", regardless of the actual truth of the matter?

[bowens43]

26. that is a ridiculous right wing talking point.

and an out right lie, there is nothing sensible about it......

[Dokkie]

32. me out of line?

Out of line is being stubborn about new reality. If you think the creators of SS envisioned the fast increase in life expentancy when creating SS then this arguement is not going any where. The truth is that we have to make adjustment to save the program, increase collection here and a gradual increase in retirement age there. Germany's retirement age is at 67 and they seem to be doing just fine.

You act like the ring winger with tax cuts when you refuse to even consider retirement age increase

[lumpy]

47. No shit... I am 82 years old and after a life of hard work inspite

of being in good health most of my life I am in no condition to hold down any kind of a job, let alone keep up the acts of daily living. Besides who in the hell would have hired me at the age of 70, inspite of my work qualifactions?

[sulphurdunn]

30. Life expectancy in the US will most likely decline

over the next century.

http://www.outdoorfoundation.org/pdf/DeclineinLifeExpectancy.pdf

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15784668

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/2008-releases/life-expectancy-worsening-or-stagnating-for-large-segment-of-the-us-population.html

[Dokkie]

33. Ok then

if life expectancy declines, that would help strenghten the program and no drastic reform would be needed. Ofc some reforms need to be put in place, like creating a SS account to store the surplus in place of using it to buy US or any other countries treasury bond.

[HankyDubs]

36. funny how you don't really address the points made

but instead just repeat your right wing talking points like a zombie.

[Dokkie]

44. What points?

I am not going to argue with his link. I think its very possible that life expectancy is going down in the future, I concede the point and as such do not need to address it anymore than I already did.

[HankyDubs]

62. you concede the point?

That your primary argument is bullshit?

Later skater.

[sulphurdunn]

38. Actually, Federal Securities

are probably the best investment for SS revenues, as they are backed by the full faith and credit of the US Government. So called SS reform is merely a legislative tactic to renege on part of that financial obligation.

[lumpy]

49. Ridculous to even think that increase of life expectancy will

solve the problems that may arise with SS financing. It makes more sense to believe that more good paying jobs/full employment will continue this most successful program. We know damn well that it is the GOP desire to discontinue federal SS and perhaps put it in the hands of the private sector as a moneymaking venture.

[lumpy]

45. How many people do we know that are still working at age 67

or over? How many people in their 50/60s who have lost their jobs are finding work? Companies don't hire people who are over the hill. It remains that most people who reach retirement age are finding it hard to work at the same pace due to the fact of ageing, health concerns etc. Besides, damn it, people deserve to rest after a lifetime of work day after day.

[Dokkie]

51. agree

For social security to last another 50yrs, we need this economy to rebound. Maybe we need to send a few SS officials to Germany to see exactly what they are doing and how 67yr retirement age is working for them.

[tsuki]

59. And what will those SS official do until the new retirement age in Germany

is implemented? Stand around waiting?

[Dokkie]

61. just continue what we are doing now

[usrname]

46. Raise the level when FICA is not charged

Currently, the first $106,000 will be taxed FICA (that's the social security tax). If you were to say, yeah, people will live longer, so we need to move the minimum age up, then you need to also say, yeah, people are earning more, so we need to move the cut-off for FICA tax up as well.

Second, with all the cuts to health care and prevention, a large number of people will NOT live to the older ages. So in a way, many will die before they can get their hands on their SS. So where will that money go? If they have no dependents, that money goes back to the government. You see how the scam works? Make it so many people can't attain the age, both by raising the minimum age to receive SS, then kill them off by not having FDA, EPA and other coverage.

I see only a very simple and effective way to solve the whole problem: no limit on salary for FICA tax. Whether you make $1/yr or $100,000,000/yr, it's 6%. DONE.

[Dokkie]

50. I agree with you

increase in FICA taxes, means testing should also be on the table.

[Confusious]

48. Ain't gonna happen

The gains in longer life expectancy happened from about 1940-1980. Since then they've been slowing down to a creep. In the United States they've actually started going down.

[Lorien]

57. Check your facts: lifespans are DECREASING in the U.S

while increasing in most other industrialized Nations.

Don't carry water for your owners.

[cameozalaznick]

58. Simple solution. Please learn this and share with everyone you know...

RAISE THE CAP! Currently you only pay into SS up to about $106,000 in income. Raise the cap. Problem solved until inflation requires another adjustment. PEOPLE, THIS IS NOT HARD TO GRASP! Are you just really that uninformed or just being willfully ignorant?

[jb24]

60. Life expectancy past age 65 is a better metric

And men are only living 3 years on average longer past age 65 than in 1940 (up to 1990). For women, only 5 years. Of course, more people are living to age 65 as well though.

http://www.ssa.gov/history/lifeexpect.html

Social Security is a non-problem anyways. Easily fixed by raising the FICA cap. It's Medicare costs and overall healthcare inflation that's the main budget issue (in the long-run)

[BulletproofLandshark]

63. Bullshit.

Lifting the cap is the only sensible thing to do.

[bbgrunt]

53. "progressive caucus" has lost its meaning.

[HankyDubs]

2. just determined to destroy themselves

and you wonder why people here are angry at the D party?

[suzanner]

4. Who's going to live 10-20 years longer? What is wrong with these people?

From Fukushima to poverty to no health care to no school lunches or food for all the unemployed, how is anyone going to live longer in the next 40 years? I think these cuts are just thinly disguised genocide of the old and poor... People who are in their 60's know what I'm talking about. Japan's retirement age is apparently 60. That is the sensible age to retire rather than dying at your desk. But thanks for posting.

[libmom74]

8. It's this kind of wishy washy BS that makes us

the losers in every single "negotiation". The Republicans aren't afraid to say what they are absolutley unwilling to compromise and they often don't. The Democrats go into negotiations willing to give away just about everything. The problem isn't that Republicans have better ideas, it's that they are perceived to have "values" that they are willing to fight hard for, and in politics in the US perception is everything.

[Ken Burch]

9. No excuse for not standing absolutely firm on the age limits

There's nothing we could possibly get in exchange for raising the age that would make up for that betrayal. Nothing at all. If we aren't absolute on SS, this party stands for nothing. It's not good enough anymore "the other guys are worse".

[Ken Burch]

10. Blumenauer has given up on everything now.

If he's caved on this, there's nothing else he can still claim to have real convictions about. This was a test. Blumenauer needs to be primaried in '12.

[Ken Burch]

11. Is Blumenauer TRYING to make Alan Colmes look macho?

If so, he's doing a damn good job.

[ErikJ]

12. THartmann says,.. Get rid of the cap and LOWER the age to 60!

It will be solvent forever with twice the benefits!
The Repcons are always touting the Flat Tax. Well how about a flat SS tax for everybody then?
How are nurses going to be helping overweight patients for 8 hours a day when they are 69?
Hartmann says that if we lower the age to 60 it will lower unemployment of the youth which is very high right now.

[Citizen Worker]

13. Approximately 10 years ago I interviewed a medical doctor who teaches in the School of Public Health

at a major university. During that interview the doctor informed the viewing audience that the US was tied for 24th place among industrial nations for life expectancy. A year or so later I went to listen to a talk by the same doctor at the end of which he stated that the US had fallen to 29th place. Not too long ago, according to the GINI Index, the US had fallen to 39th place.
During our interview I asked the doctor where the US ranked at the end of WW II. He said that those statistics were not gathered at that time but it was generally accepted that the US ranked among the top five in life expectancy. So, in 65 years the US has fallen from fifth place to thirty ninth place. That's real progress, right? What this indicates is that the US is not so slowly crumbling and for someone who calls himself a progressive who is not aware of this dramatic decline in health statistics is an insult.
The political class is hell bent on doing the bidding of the ruling class. We're just plain screwed.

[florida08]

23. +1000

[wordpix]

42. "The political class is hell bent on doing the bidding of the ruling class."

How unfortunately true. Had great hopes Obama was going to turn that around but it's not happening.

[Che Billy]

14. Hope is fading...

My level of respect for Cenk just went up by around 70%. My level of respect for the so-called "Progressive Caucus" just plummeted by the same amount.

[JDPriestly]

16. Why are they attempting to project life expectancy in 25 years?

Why don't they just take care of the reality of today for a change.

We need jobs and better pay for working people. That is the only priority that matters. Social Security will take care of itself if people are working and earning good wages.

Bunch of traitors.

Let me tell you my experience.

I went back to graduate school at the age of 50 thinking that I would be able to work until I was 70. The job market in my field went bad when I turned 61. I continued to struggle to work but could not get a decent job for an ethical employer that paid enough to permit me to live.

Only a fool begins to invest in a business in a service profession in his or her early 60s. Takes too long to build a clientele, a reputation, an efficient business model to start anything complex at that age.

Eventually, I realized that I wasn't wanted in the workplace any more. It's a horrible feeling. You deal with rejection, anger and depression. But you have to go through it.

These politicians who flippantly talk about longer life expectancies and later Social Security eligibility should be forced to retire by their constituents. They are really a bunch of heels who don't know what it is like to grow old in the real, competitive job marketplace.

There is surely a special place in Hell for these people. They are monsters all.

We have laws about age discrimination, but it is very demeaning and difficult to actually enforce those laws against employers. Most older people work in small businesses and have difficulty proving that they were fired due to their age. There are all sorts of ways around the statutes. What is more, once you are older and do not look forward to years of working in your field in any case, you can't get enough in damages to make the stress of a lawsuit or even of a claim worthwhile.

These "progressives" are progressive in name only. For shame.

And Weiner is asked to leave for sex-texting. It's these wimpy "progressives" who should not be serving in Congress.

[JDPriestly]

18. My husband (who worked out of love for his job until he was close to 70)

asked me to add to my comments that those who wish to change the Social Security eligibility age should first concern themselves with making sure there are enough jobs for all Americans. You cannot ask people to work if there is not money in the economy to pay them and if they cannot get jobs. You will simply increase government expenditures on welfare or disability payments.

It's like giving someone the right to eat up to a certain age, however the acquisition of food is up to them. You can't expect people to get their food without work unless the government is planning to provide it.

Social Security for most recipients provides merely enough money to pay for roof over their heads, a couple of meals a day and the occasional doctor's bill provided the doctor does not charge to much. That is about it.

[wordpix]

41. good points, totally agree

[Enthusiast]

20. Way to call him out, Cenk!

We outspend the entire combined world on this ridiculous military! What is so hard to understand here? Our primary enemy is not a specific nation where we can focus our huge military. There is simply no justification for this. And, as Cenk pointed out our taxes are at near record lows. It was no accident that Obama appointed Simpson and Bowles -the two most enthusiastic 'cut social security' advocates.

[florida08]

24. what they want is to turn ss simply into another source of revenue

another tax. You pay but never collect or collect for only a few years. I know plenty of people who died before they collected a dime. By the way I don't hear anything about means testing. We are slowly being drained of being a force for democracy. Privatizing takes it out of government hands and government authority. That's us.

[olegramps]

27. Its High Noon and we have been forsaken.

Our gun fighter won't even show up. He wears an silly bow tie and looks like Pee-Wee Herman. He looks, walks and talks like a pansy.

[Ken Burch]

55. I was with you right up until you said "pansy".

You really, really REALLY might want to think about rewording that one.

[bahrbearian]

29. Cenk is my new Hero.

[wordpix]

39. +1 He is mine, too, but he missed one question: Where are the jobs for the 55+ group?

Those in the 55+ age group are getting canned left and right b/c younger workers can be hired for less. In my industry, experience matters and hiring lots of young people without experience really hurts. I have seen horrible decisions made by 24 y.o.'s that impact people's lives.

No matter what business or industry, with this proposal, older workers are expected to pay their way until 70 y.o. ---even as they are getting let go from their jobs in droves.

"Mr. Boehner, where are the jobs?" :puke:

[sulphurdunn]

31. Life expectancy will decline over the next century

in the US. By keeping older workers on the job, they can continue paying income taxes and contributing more to the reduced SS and Medicare system benefits they receive. It also has the added advantage of keeping younger people out of the workforce longer, thus continuing downward pressure on wages while increasing corporate profits and further reducing FICA contributions by employers. :evilgrin:

[Red Knight]

34. Actors on the same team

or just too weak to matter.

Earl has sent letters and such, you see...explaining that he would like the Bush tax cuts halted.

But....he has no actual power to do anything about it and WILL allow the retirement age to be raised.

What can he do? Fight for something?

Of course not.

In the end--they all cave.

We need fighters. Not this.

Sad, really.

[wordpix]

37. let's talk about raising the retirement age AFTER the rich end their tax cuts

[The Wizard]

52. For some reason(s)

they can't tax the wealthy and cut military spending. The burden is for the working class. Enabling the Republican jihad is not the road to success for a return to power for the Democrats. Some people in leadership need a good ass kicking and maybe removal from office for abandoning Democratic principles for off shore bank accounts.

[DWilliamsamh]

54. It's official. The Middle Class is dead.

In thirty years there will be nothing but rich and poor - wait let me revise that. Nothing but a a poor shell of what used to be America, because the rich will have all moved to San Moritz or where ever the FUCK they can see no one with less than a 8 figure net worth.