Raw Foods Raid - The Fight For the Right To Eat What You Want

[janewin]

Run time: 06:47 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioN0ehlyyXI   Posted on YouTube: November 17, 2010 By YouTube Member: ReasonTV Views on YouTube: 267   Posted on DU: November 17, 2010 By DU Member: janewin Views on DU: 2000

 
This summer armed government agents raided Rawesome Foods, a Venice, California health food co-op. What were the agents after? Unpasteurized milk, it turns out.

[SDuderstadt]

1. Gee...

it's not like consumers of unpasteurized milk can develop illnesses that they can pass on to others around them.

Oh, wait...they can. Sorry, the FDA is right on this issue.

[janewin]

2. Just like the excuses

my conservative friends uses to justify sodomy laws. I dont buy it with them and its embarrassing that you're using here with this. If theres a problem of spreading disease, then let the FDA charge them with it instead of weak sauce charges like "mislabeling goat cheese".

[Boudica the Lyoness]

4. Don't you understand that if you drink

bad milk the only one who's going to get sick is yourself. A plague is not going to be released. The general public is not in danger with raw food like it was with the salmonella in the factory eggs.

[Liberty Belle]

6. What about the Mom who serves it to her kids, and her kids' friends?

The FDA is right to protect people from this health hazard -- and I am a former health food publication editor.

[janewin]

8. if that happens

then charge the offending citizen. Personally, I would love to charge McDonalds, BurgerKind and all the publicly accepted restaurants who serve poisonous foods to our children with some form of a misdemeanor(corporate person-hood) . There is a reasonable level of protection people expect from their govt and I think this crosses that level

[zeemike]

5. Well I am totally ignorant.

Just what illnesses is past on to others from those that eat raw food....please be specific.
I grew up eating raw milk and would like to know if I passed illnesses on to others because of it.

[SDuderstadt]

7. Yeah...

listeriosis, typhoid fever, tuberculosis, diphtheria, and brucellosis.

[zeemike]

9. Like I said I am ignorant.

Did not know that all of that came from milk....I thought things like typhoid was transmitted in the water....And TB too?
Perhaps you cold explain how milk is involved in transmitting these things.

[SDuderstadt]

10. Micro-organisms...

which is why Pasteur developed the process that became known as pasteurization. In one part of the article, some guy is going on and on about the benefits of raw foods, saying something to the effect of "like nature intended.

Really? Then why didn't nature provide some sort of mechanism for self-refrigeration?

[zeemike]

13. So does that mean we need to pasteurize everything?

Our water our food, and sterilize everything we touch?...because everything has microorganisms on and in it....your skin your hair all of it.
the real truth is that the corporations that provide the pasteurization and handling of milk want their cut of the action...and they use this to get it.
And we did not have refrigeration when I was small....we kept the excess milk in the well...natures frig.

[SDuderstadt]

14. Dude...

I really don't care if you want to be a science denier, as long as you only harm yourself.

When you start gambling with communicable diseases, you make it society's concern.

[zeemike]

31. I am not a science denier.

I am just not one that is so afraid of germs that I am afraid to eat plain ordinary food...there is no reason to believe that those who handle the milk have TB or other communicable desieses....and simple sanitary handling is all that is necessary.
But this is not about making you eat things you don't want to eat...it is about allowing others to eat the way they want to eat.

[SDuderstadt]

32. Dude...

if you only endangered yourself, I'd have no problem with it.

[zeemike]

41. Well it has been a long time sense I forced some one to drink milk

But it could happen.

[Tafiti]

16. You forgot...

...Campylobacteriosis, Cryptosporidiosis, Salmonellosis, Shigellosis, and, of course, E. coli 0157:H7.

[SDuderstadt]

19. That was just what I could remember...

off the top of my head.

Besides, just throwing more facts at science-deniers usually convinces them that you're actually "part of the conspiracy".

[JDPriestly]

11. I enjoyed raw milk when I lived in a village in Germany.

The wonderful thing about it is that you can make sour milk, a real treat.

Also, I believe that the best French cheeses are made with raw milk. The pasteurization process interferes with the aging processes that make some of the French cheeses (arguably the best ones) so good.

It should be possible to protect health and still have raw milk products especially cheeses made from raw milk.

I haven't heard that French cheeses made from unpasteurized milk caused any health problems. Have you?

[SDuderstadt]

12. Why don't you research it?

Let us know what you find.

[jeff47]

29. The cheese making process can be a preservative

The whole reason we developed cheese was to preserve milk before pasteurization and refrigeration.

However, it's not nearly as effective as pasteurization, and thus not nearly as safe as pasteurization.

There have been cases of raw milk cheeses causing disease, and people who are not accustomed to raw milk cheeses can experience....oh we'll call it "intestinal distress" to remain polite.

[Kali]

18. maybe informed consumers would be a better way to handle it

rather than deny consumers the right to purchase and consume what they want (usually from sources that they know personally) the "authorities" could better spend thier time (and our $$$) ensuring the consumers are informed properly of risks and god forbid, looking to see if the mega-agBUSINESSES are actually in compliance with regs.

Terrorizing small farmers/businesses and their generally knowledgeable customers in the false name of "safety" (with regs put in place originally to control the big guys and now being used BY them to control competition from small operations) is over-kill.

[SDuderstadt]

20. Sorry...

your right to "purchase and consume what you want" doesn't trump the right of the rest of us to be protected from communicable diseases.

I don't know about you, but I prefer to live in a science-based world.

[Kali]

23. hahahhahahaha

show me a single case of what you claim (disease passed on to somebody else by a "sickened" consumer of raw dairy produced/sold in this country in the last 20 years) and then we can talk about science

[SDuderstadt]

25. Why don't you take an...

epidemiology class?

[Kali]

33. I didn't think you would be able to cite anything.

before you spout off on things you clearly only have a little scary knowledge about you MIGHT want to do a little research yourself.

me? I raise cattle, got a little experience in this issue - along with my science-based years of college and continuing education.

[SDuderstadt]

36. Did you see me say I can't cite anything????

I said you might want to take an epidemiology class.

If you want to go down this path we can, but only upon certain conditions because I am not going to waste time with someone for whom no degree of proof will be enough.

1st question:

Do you deny that raw milk carries pathogens responsible for listeriosis, typhoid fever, tuberculosis, diphtheria, brucellosis, Campylobacteriosis, Cryptosporidiosis, Salmonellosis, Shigellosis as well as containing E. coli 0157:H7?

2nd question:

Do you deny those diseases are communicable?

[Kali]

39. so do it

you are making claims, I challenged you on it

your questions are loaded, just cite any recent (20 years) case of someone ill with any of your choice of those diseases CONTRACTED FROM RAW DAIRY AND PASSED ON TO A THIRD (or more) person. Bonus if there was any real outbreak with multiple "third party" cases.

as to your questions, just to be honest, yes raw milk CAN be a source of those pathogens (just as your friends and relatives can be the source of those and many MANY more), and yes I admit it causes proportionally more illnesses than pasteurized, but YES I DENY that it does so very often and certainly not in the majority of available raw milk in this current time. (most states where it is legal have mandatory testing and licensing)

I found a citation for a total of 85 outbreaks in the last decade (1600 sick, 187 hospitalized, two deaths) from consuming raw dairy but no mention of passing anything along to any non-consuming victims - I will leave it to common sense the TOTAL numbers of food born illnesses in that same time period. (and I highly doubt many of THEM went beyond the original consumer either)

oh and the VAST majority of illnesses are from campylobactor, e coli, salmonella and listeria - the common food-born pathogens found in many other foods/outbreaks. the other scary diseases are almost unheard of.

an informed consumer should be able to choose for themselves what they want eat

[SDuderstadt]

42. How were my questions...

"loaded"?

Nevermind.

[molly77]

22. SDuderstadt

The milk we buy has steroids that make the cows big. Us too. Antibiotics so when the cow's tits have infections , it won't stop production. After the milk is sterilized/pasteurized it has much much less nutrients. Like most of the crap that we buy in the grocery stores.Less taste and nutrients. Microcosm for our society.

Clean barns. Clean healthy grass fed cows that don't graze 1,000 miles from the consumer...that would be nice.

As for antibiotics, you can't get them from the doctor when you really need them anymore. The cows got 'em. My sister in law died at Duke Hospital in Durham, NC of a severe infection. She was unable to receive antibiotics until she was almost dead. In her late 50s. The hospital could have been sued. What good would it do? The rot is systemic.

[SDuderstadt]

24. I don't recall advocating steroids...

in milk.

[Kali]

44. please get your facts straight

some dairy cows are given a hormone that makes them produce more milk - not to make them "bigger" and not even all conventional dairies use it

many conventionally grown BEEF animals are given a steroid (hormone) to increase the rate of weight gained - not necessarily make them "bigger" overall, but to make them grow muscle (meat) faster - same with feeding them low level antibiotics - it seems to help them function on the high energy ration they are subject to - it is not really for therapeutic reasons, as far as I know it is NOT fed to dairy cattle

now, there needs to be discussions about these practices but how can there be when people don't even have a basic understanding of what, how, and why these practices exist?

[Boudica the Lyoness]

3. My god, they have their guns drawn and

are ready to do some killing over raw food!

lol "The land of the free and the home of the brave"!

[Dickster]

15. This is a classic case of government out of control....

I grew up drinking raw milk right out of the cooler in the barn, for 18 years until I left for college. Never had a problem with any of it, nor did anyone in our family. It was a treat every meal to drink cold whole milk. The danger is blown way out of proportion. The government will come in and shut down a small farmer because of a perceived threat to public health, but lets huge factory farms off the hook. The egg salmonella case of late is a good point. I'm pretty sure that huge outfit is still going strong. A little slap on the wrist, and they keep pumpin out millions of eggs a day without missin a beat. Industrial agriculture somehow feels threatened by the small and slow food movement, and they are willing to spend tons of money to influence the officials at all of those agencies mentioned in the film, as well as our politicians. Industrial agribusiness is huge and the amounts of money involved are staggering. They don'twant to give any of it up. This isn't a Democratic or Republican deal, both parties are complicit in this bureaucratic nightmare. Kind of reminds me of the old Soviet Union in many ways.

[SDuderstadt]

17. Maybe you should take a class in...

probability.

[indimuse]

34. I think your'e right!

Here is some very interesting info::

Jerry Brunetti Food as Medicine - Fight Cancer with Raw Milk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TC5uBd3HyAw

:)

[Tafiti]

21. This is a tough issue.

Clearly, the raid was way over the top--guns drawn? That's ridiculous.

I also think people should have the right to drink raw milk if they want. The really difficult issue, however, is what someone else mentioned upthread--what about a child who is fed raw milk that gets seriously ill? Sure, the risk of serious illness or death is pretty low, but once infected, children have less developed immune systems and can suffer a great deal.

The federal government has punted this issue to the states, and it's a hodge podge. Some states allow retail sale, most ban it, and others have a hybrid approach where private sales are okay, but commercial sale is not allowed.

The bottom line is, though the risk of infection is relatively small, you are exposing yourself to some very dangerous pathogens by drinking raw milk. Caveat emptor.

[greiner3]

26. I'm a bit torn on this topic;;

On one hand big food producers have little oversight and only report problems after the fact. With little producers the opposite seems to be the case.

However, throughout history raw dairy products have claimed huge numbers of people. Pasteurization and homogenization have limited the death and sickness almost to the point of nothing.

On the third hand, if one could truly say that a farm was organic and absolute sterilization was used throughout the process then I do not see a great problem. I would not eat dairy products without the listed procedures, but then I do not trust the food industry, at all.

[liberation]

27. I am right there with you...

... on one hand, drinking unpasteurized milk in this day and age seems to be an act of idiocy more than anything.

But on the other hand the enforcement seems to be rather "arbitrary" to say the least. I have no problem with these idiots being held accountable for distributing unpasteurized milk for mass consumption, but then we can't ignore the fact that large dairy producers are pumping products... that even though they are pasteurized, come from cows held in unsanitary conditions and pumped up of all sorts of hormones and what not.

[SDuderstadt]

28. Well said....n/t

[rainy]

30. Well " as nature intended" didn't include the milk of

other animals. Our bodies stop making the enzimes to process milk at the age of 3 or 4. I don't think we were suppose to drink milk period.

[Althaia]

35. a report of FDA-confirmed illness from raw milk

http://www.newsinferno.com/food-poisoning/fda-warns-of-raw-milk-food-poisoning-outbreaks/

a video discussing the topic, made by a virologist; he also provides more good links
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VbwYqV4Eog

[emilyg]

40. Thanks.

[suzanner]

37. the point is the storm trooper raid which wouldn't happen in any other eating establishment.

No one is talking about the wisdom of eating raw milk etc in this piece. I used to eat paper in grade school- I was hungry. We all sniffed mimeograph ink on the page back then. People do stuff.

[SDuderstadt]

38. Did you happen to notice the title of the OP??? n/t

[pa28]

43. The drawn guns and SWAT tactics were a nice touch.

I wonder if the FBI asked nicely for management cooperation before storming in?

If not I guess we just have to a assume that rogue bacteria in the honey and soft cheese were a greater threat to public safety than an armed raid.

:eyes:

[BrentWil]

45. Good video from Libertarian Reason TV

And an issue I do agree with Reason on. While they are a libertarian organization, they do purpose some videos that make you think.