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Swede Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 10:27 AM
Original message
"a Christian land governed by Christian principles"
 
Run time: 01:57
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdhGK9aYjDY
 
Posted on YouTube: May 21, 2010
By YouTube Member: TXFreedomNetwork
Views on YouTube: 9236
 
Posted on DU: May 22, 2010
By DU Member: Swede
Views on DU: 3058
 
Texas State Board of Education member Cynthia Dunbar opens debate on new social studies standards with a politically divisive prayer.
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
1. the same christian principles that brought us the slave trade and holocaust? no thanks nt
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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
19. Thats idiotic!
Slavery and genocide are not "Christian Principles" and you know it, so stop insulting good people just because you can't think of a decent argument for why what we saw in that video was WRONG.
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freethinker2 Donating Member (96 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #19
28. Another Christian who dont know?
No he is rite! That is christian policy! Read your book you must have missed that part..
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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. my book would not be the Bible
because I am not a Christian. You fail as a troll.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #19
36. Where is the right to free speech or free expression mentioned in the Bible?
Where is the right to counsel mentioned? And the right to bear arms? How about the right to a jury trial when accused of a crime?

Where is the right to freedom of religion mentioned in the Bible?

This woman is talking nonsense.

The early state charters were superseded by the Constitution. They did not work well.

If the Charters of Massachusetts or Connecticut suggested that those states were Christian, then how can that be interpreted as meaning the United States was to be a Christian nation.

Instead, the fact that the Founding Fathers decided to adopt a resoundingly secular, non-religious Constitution for the United States suggests that they rejected the idea of a Christian nation or a religious nation of any sort.

This is ridiculous. And look at that woman's dress. Is she attending a prom? Very strange.

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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. I can agree with everything you say here
without agreeing that slave trade and the Holocaust were brought to us by Christian principles.
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WhoIsNumberNone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #37
40. A simple Google search...
Edited on Sun May-23-10 02:04 AM by WhoIsNumberNone
Bible verses regarding slavery: (Ironically Deuteronomy 23:15-16 forbids the returning of escaped slaves to their masters- if we were truly a "Christan" nation, operating under Biblical law, it would seem that the Dredd Scott decision would be heretical)

Regarding the emancipation of slaves, Jewish slaves were to be freed after six years, except those who were born by the female slave. Female slaves, sold into slavery by their fathers, would be slaves forever. And the cost of freeing a slave was calculated using the number of years to the next Jubilee Year, ranging between 1 and 50 years.

Exodus 21:1-4 "If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself."

Deuteronomy 15:12-18 "And if thy brother, an Hebrew man, or an Hebrew woman, be sold unto thee, and serve thee six years; then in the seventh year thou shalt let him go free from thee.And when thou sendest him out free from thee, thou shalt not let him go away empty: Thou shalt furnish him liberally out of thy flock, and out of thy floor, and out of thy winepress: of that wherewith the Lord thy God hath blessed thee thou shalt give unto him."

Exodus 21: 7 "And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do."


Regarding the beating and killing of slaves, the Book of Exodus contains laws regarding punishment for the one who kills the slave as well as injunctions to avoid injuring the eyes and teeth.

Exodus 21:20-21 "And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money."

Exodus 21:26-27 "And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake. And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake."


The Book of Leviticus prohibited the harsh ruling over other Israelites, but that slaves could be taken from the Gentiles.

Leviticus 25:44-46 "Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour."

Also, in Leviticus, a distinction is made between the hired servant and the slave.

Leviticus 25:48-53 "After that he is sold he may be redeemed again; one of his brethren may redeem him: Either his uncle, or his uncle's son, may redeem him, or any that is nigh of kin unto him of his family may redeem him; or if he be able, he may redeem himself. And he shall reckon with him that bought him from the year that he was sold to him unto the year of jubilee: and the price of his sale shall be according unto the number of years, according to the time of an hired servant shall it be with him."

Slaves were to undergo circumcision.

Genesis 17:13 "He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant."

Genesis 17:27 "And all the men of his house, born in the house, and bought with money of the stranger, were circumcised with him."


Female captives are considered spoils of war.

Deuteronomy 21:10-14 "When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the Lord thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife. And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her."

Deuteronomy 20:14 "But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself"


The punishment for sexual activity with a female slave who is engaged consisted of animal sacrifice in the Temple. There is no comment on sexual activity with one who is not married or engaged.

Leviticus 19:20-22 "And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free. And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the Lord, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, even a ram for a trespass offering. And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the Lord for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him."

It is not permitted to return an escaped slave, nor was it permissible to "oppress" him.

Deuteronomy 23:15-16 "Thou shalt not deliver unto his master the servant which is escaped from his master unto thee: He shall dwell with thee, even among you, in that place which he shall choose in one of thy gates, where it liketh him best: thou shalt not oppress him."

The Book of Numbers makes references to thousands of female captives who were to be given to the priests.

Numbers 31:28-47 "And levy a tribute unto the Lord of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep: Take it of their half, and give it unto Eleazar the priest, for an heave offering of the Lord. And of the children of Israel's half, thou shalt take one portion of fifty, of the persons, of the beeves, of the asses, and of the flocks, of all manner of beasts, and give them unto the Levites, which keep the charge of the tabernacle of the Lord."

Mark 14:66 "And as Peter was beneath in the palace, there cometh one of the maids of the high priest."
There were restrictions on reselling slaves. Apparently a Hebrew slave could not be resold.

Exodus 21:8 "If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her. And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters. If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish. And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money."


If one were to purchase his own brother into slavery, laws in Leviticus prevent treating him as other slaves, but rather as a guest or servant. The Living Bible refers to "a fellow Israelite" rather than "brother."

Leviticus 25:39 "And if thy brother that dwelleth by thee be waxen poor, and be sold unto thee; thou shalt not compel him to serve as a bondservant: But as an hired servant, and as a sojourner, he shall be with thee, and shall serve thee unto the year of jubilee: And then shall he depart from thee, both he and his children with him, and shall return unto his own family, and unto the possession of his fathers shall he return."

The Books of Exodus and Deuteronomy mention that the punishment for kidnapping an Israelite and selling them into slavery is punishable by death. And a debtor who could not pay back creditors could be sold into slavery or have his children sold.

Exodus 21:16 "And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death."

Deuteronomy 24: 7 "If a man be found stealing any of his brethren of the children of Israel, and maketh merchandise of him, or selleth him; then that thief shall die; and thou shalt put evil away from among you."

II Kings 4:1 "Now there cried a certain woman of the wives of the sons of the prophets unto Elisha, saying, Thy servant my husband is dead; and thou knowest that thy servant did fear the Lord: and the creditor is come to take unto him my two sons to be bondmen."


Slaves could, themselves, own slaves. Saul's slave Ziba owned 20 slaves of his own: 2 Samuel 9:10: "...Now Ziba had fifteen sons and twenty servants."

The Sabbath applied to slaves as well.

Exodus 20:10 "But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates."

The New Testament did not forbid or alter the institution of slavery, nor did it improve their conditions.

1 Corinthians 12:13 "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

Colossians 3:11 "Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all."


http://etori.tripod.com/slave-verses.html

And here are a couple of the Bible's many genocide references:

"When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you may nations...then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them and show them no mercy." Deuteronomy 7:1-2, NIV. 1

"...do not leave alive anything that breaths. Completely destroy them...as the Lord your God has commanded you..." Deuteronomy 20:16, NIV.


http://www.religioustolerance.org/god_cana.htm
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lunasun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. The dress is a little slutty for the public setting but in a church lady kind of way nt
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dotymed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #36
42. Obviously,
I think her "prayer" just explained the grounds for the American Revolution. I thought textbooks would be chosen by scholars not the Christian Taliban.
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toppertwot Donating Member (49 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
31. The Christian Tali-ban
They want a Christian - Sharia - type law for the nation. No need for courts, the preachers read the Bible and will administer justice for one and all. WOW! Just like Heaven on earth - HUH?
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goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
2. excuse me while I
:puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke:
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Aslanspal Donating Member (303 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
3. This just freaks me out and it happens every time...
They are not really praying but they are delivering a message...a speech
God does not hear this, if there is a god...this is to project themselves
as better than others because they think they have a pipeline to God
but damn ...just listen to them does that sound like a prayer ..hell no! it
is an idealogical speech.

for god sake get a closet
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Wizard777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
4. A Wise Lord granting genius is classic Zoroastrianism. NOT Christianity.
Edited on Sat May-22-10 10:40 AM by Wizard777
:shrug:

Christians will put you to death for questioning the world being flat and the sun revolving around it.
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Wizard777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
5. Oh yeah and she forgot the part about the first amendment ONLY protecting Christians.
:banghead:
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
6. "a Christian land governed by Christian principles"
. . . sounds like Spain under the Inquisition.
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
7. there is nothing more harmful then religion. nt
Edited on Sat May-22-10 10:53 AM by bowens43
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laurel46 Donating Member (96 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
27. i agree. they have weird logic in requiring
an irrational magic based theory to explain the rational non-magical world. i am distraught over the oil disaster and, btw, so glad i have the people at du for comfort.

off topic a bit but, can du set up a forum for uniting for protesting? i am new here.
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WhoIsNumberNone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #27
44. Try this one
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sallyseven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
8. Are you scared yet?
God save me from the christians. These people are nuts and scary. Next they will demand that this nonsense will be allowed to replace history. The internet will be fouled by these nitwits.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 01:16 PM
Original message
Sell it back to Mexico for a dollar.
 
Run time: 01:57
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdhGK9aYjDY
 
Posted on YouTube: May 21, 2010
By YouTube Member: TXFreedomNetwork
Views on YouTube: 9236
 
Posted on DU: May 22, 2010
By DU Member: aquart
Views on DU: 3058
 
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sallyseven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
9. Are you scared yet?
These people are going to take over the education department and we will all have to follow their ignorance. US is going down the tubes. I worry about my grand children. Rand Paul will become the guru. I am ashamed of them.
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
10. Fundies like to conflate the Puritans and the founding fathers.
As if 167 years of American history and an entire philosophical/intellectual era had never happened. Here's a hint, Texas BoE: the Puritans were the fundamentalist loons who got thrown out of England in the 1620s and then wrote the Massachusetts Bay Charter upon arriving in the New World. They were also the guys who burned the witches in Salem, and put people in the stocks for committing adultery. The founding fathers were the enlightenment thinkers, mostly Deists, who came along more than 150 years later, rejected, among other things, the notion that political power derives from God, and wrote the U.S. Constitution which is the supreme law of the land. Try to keep it straight, okay?
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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. To any Christan who believes the USA is ""a Christian land governed by Christian principles"
Edited on Sat May-22-10 02:42 PM by demwing
Can you show me anywhere in the founding documents that define our political system, or in the laws that govern it, where the words "Jesus" or "Christ" are institutionalized? Used? Referred to? Casually mentioned, in an offhanded sort of way? Hummed to the tune of?

How about mocked? Rejected? Identified in any way, positively or negatively?

"God" yes. "Jesus" no. Jesus was ignored. He is not even noticeable by his absence, for all other deities are absent as well. Do you know why? Because "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

That means we can discuss God all we like, but we cannot, as an institution, define God. That would pass from believing in a God, as individuals, to adhering to a particular religion, as a nation.

So according to the Constitution, "God" could mean Allah, or Brahma, or Jehovah. To some, God could refer to that piece of you that is your conscience. God could even mean something comparable to "the undefined creator of all humanity." Or Mother Nature. Or Zeus. Or the Sun. Or the word OM. Or any of the many other things in which people believe.

So Christians - you do not OWN the word God! God does not serve YOU. So much conceit!

Which brings me back to the video that spawned this mini rant. While you sit in your elected office, failing to uphold the Constitution, thoroughly confused as to the content of that Constitution, why in the world should the rest of us give you any respect regarding your lack of knowledge of US history, or allow you to mangle our Public School system with your ill-informed religious fervor?

Oh yeah, we shouldn't...but we will. Because all we ever do in this country is elect fuckers that lie to us and promise us a laundry list of hope scented crap.

Then we come into chat rooms, just like I did, and bitch and moan.

Just like I did.

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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. God is not mentioned in the Constitution.
At all. Religion is mentioned once, in the first amendment's "establishment clause." If the framers had wanted the country to be a Christian nation, there was nothing to stop them from writing it into the Constitution. They didn't; in fact they made it clear that the government could not favor one religion over another, or none. There are lots of reasons why this is so: the most important is that they were very well aware of the dangers to both church and state when the two powers merge: there's no democracy in a theocracy--you can't vote on God's will--there's no democracy if the rulers are given power by God. It's also worth noting that the founders were not predominantly Christian in the contemporary sense--Jefferson, Franklin, Washington, Adams, Hamilton, Madison and Paine were all Deists, or held Deist beliefs.
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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. True, but Jefferson refers to God in the Declaration of Independence
speaking of Nature's God and our Creator. Surely the Declaration is one of the "founding documents that define our political system" as it outlines the premise that authority to govern comes not from divine right, but from the collective consent of the citizenry to be governed.

When I wrote "So according to the Constitution, "God" could mean Allah, or Brahma, or Jehovah" I'm referring to the the No Establishment clause of the 1st amendment.
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. The Decalration is one of the founding documents, sure.
Edited on Sat May-22-10 06:08 PM by smoogatz
So is the Mayflower Compact. But the Constitution is the law of the land. Even the Declaration makes no mention of Jesus, referring instead, as you say, to "Nature's God" and our "Creator"--leaving the character of that God/Creator open to interpretation. In fact they were just as likely referring to the Deist God-as-watchmaker as to any contemporary Christian conception of a God who is intimately involved in the affairs and politics of men. That notion wasn't much in favor among enlightenment thinkers, but of course the Texas BoE doesn't want anyone to know that the enlightenment even happened. I can tell you that they don't teach high school students in Wisconsin that the authors of the Constitution did not uniformly accept the divinity of Christ, for example.
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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. We agree, why do I feel like you're trying to correct me?
Is it just me?
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WhoIsNumberNone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #33
45. Many of these fundies can't seem to get it straight that the Declaration and the Constitution-
are not the same document. The Declaration of Independence is not the law of the land. These fundies seem to have it all mashed together- they remember the 'endowed by their creator' phrase and think it's in the Constitution.
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scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
11. For all those who think tea party is just fringe of dumb fucks -
just wait. The worst is yet to come.

Every minute Obama spends privatizing and appeasing and accommodating and capitulating and rolling over and lifting his skirt and bi-partisaning is only making it worse.

Tea party sees they just have to make a little noise and Obama is on his knees trying to look more Reagan than Reagan, more Bush than Bush.

Texas is taking full advantage of the situation, not just with Board of Ed, but all political matters.

They know Obama is weak.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. He is just doing what he set
out to do. We were sold on his liberalism, it was not real. He is a Trojan Horse.
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FedUp_Queer Donating Member (679 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
12. Okay, let's do it this way.
Let's engage them on their turf. Let's the have the debate about this. Let's concede their notion. Then, let's ask them these questions:

1) If the separation of powers is Biblical, where is it? Last I checked, there is plenty of talk about Kings, Queens, anointed persons.
2) Slavery. What about the notion in the New Testament that there is no slave or free, Gentile or Jew, woman or man (Galatians 3:28). If anything, it's the reformers (what we normally call liberals) were the ones who worked to outlaw slavery, instill equal protection (which the founders did not) in the Constitution.
3) Sanctity of the home. Where is that notion anywhere?
4) Freedom of speech, freedom to assemble? Where are these?

Fine. You want to say that, then let's meet them on the battlefield. Ask them the questions. Put them to their proof for everyone to see.
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rurallib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
13. I hope somebody sues and drags their asses into court
Of course 75% of federal judges are republicans, but even many of them can't stand the stench of church-state incest.
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
14. "No dogs or Jews allowed"
nt
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tomm2thumbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
15.  C U L T ! ! ! ! !

a one word answer to that video

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dballance Donating Member (460 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Why is there even a prayer????
This is a state school board meeting, not Sunday school. They shouldn't be praying there.
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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. agreed to the 10th power
we let little bits of our freedoms go every time we let this shit continue unchallenged
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laurel46 Donating Member (96 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
17. They are inches from worshiping the founding fathers as god.
Maybe liberals should start a church of the founding fathers so we can claim divine knowledge of the constitution.

Oh, and by the way, things are dire, perhaps sacrificing a goat would be more effective for them.
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Except that they think the Puritans were the founding fathers.
Or something. Their version of history is completely incoherent.
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
23. Oh Great Zeus
Save us from these cretins and frauds.
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Plucketeer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
24. I'm glad I'm in my senior years!
:yoiks:
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
25. A Christian land? That would have to be a pretty damn big baptistry. n/t
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laurel46 Donating Member (96 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. correct me if i am wrong
didn't one of the founding fathers write that indoctrinating children into a religion was immoral? I know a few philosophers did and still do. one was my grandfather, a minister with a masters in moral philosophy.

i was joking about a real religion, i am an atheist.
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abq e streeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
30. delete-quote did not copy completely...
Edited on Sat May-22-10 05:20 PM by abq e streeter
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
38. These are not Christians...
they are hypocrites.

They pick and choose what they want, but inevitably fail when it come to any understanding of what Jesus spoke of...they have forlorn, empathy, fellowship, compassion, looking out for the poor and imprisoned. They have become soldiers of the very hell they are so afraid of. They judge, but do not expect judgment in return, they covet money and power, but refuse to help the downtrodden, they know nothing of sacrifice.

These are not Christians, they are jerks, who have claimed a religion as their own, and they have destroyed the very principles that guide the religion.

This is not the only religion to be hijacked by zealots who would kill in the name of Peace, who would destroy in the name of compassion. Every religion has it's insanely "pious" people, they need to be exposed for what they are, hypocrites that haven't a clue about the basic tenets of their alleged "faith". There are facets like this in all religions, Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, and all others...they would kill, in the name of life....despicable.
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SemperEadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 06:14 AM
Response to Original message
41. whose brand of christianity and whose brand of principles?
Edited on Sun May-23-10 06:15 AM by SemperEadem
The Mormon's? The Jehovah's Witnesses? I mean, I hear this talk about it being a xtian nation, but there are dozens of flavors of xtian--so, shall we all submit to the authority of Rome once again? They believe in God and Jesus, too.. and they had an Inquisition machine in place for centuries. They know a thing or two about torture and bringing folks around to 'the truth'.

See, I agree this is just political speech because the real war would begin when they are asked to give up what flavor they believe to pledge their allegience to the flavor the state says they have to. Oh, it's a cool, ego-pumping idea now, but let this shit turn on them, they will be squealing the loudest.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
43. Fuck these fucked up people. nt
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suzanner Donating Member (396 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
46. Hm, that is not really a prayer to an all-knowing diety..
it is a sermon for human ears. How sad they don't even know that much about their own religion.
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