TYT: Obama Pharma Deal (Devastating Video)

[The Northerner]

Run time: 21:06 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-l3c8QWJaoQ   Posted on YouTube: February 13, 2010 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: February 13, 2010 By DU Member: The Northerner Views on DU: 6096

 

[ejbr]

1. k & r n/t

[ihavenobias]

2. Link to more info

http://blog.sunlightfoundation.com/2010/02/12/the-legacy-of-billy-tauzin-the-white-house-phrma-deal/

[slipslidingaway]

10. Thanks for the link ....

a few items about this video.

As far as I know the 12 year period protected the data, it was not just a patent for the drug. Also this portion of the bill referred to biologics, not all drugs.


Senate HELP amendment on "data exclusivity"
http://pnhp.org/blog/2009/07/14/senate-help-amendment-on-data-exclusivity/

"...Sen. Tom Harkin: Keep in mind what we’re talking about here. We’re not talking about patents. Everybody gets a 20 year patent… What we’re talking about here is data, data exclusivity… How do you get that data? You get it through FDA supervised trials… Where do they do those clinical trials? Academic health centers. Who supports academic health centers? Our taxpayers… When should that data be released so that another company out there, some other entrepreneurs, can look at the data and say… I’ll bet if we changed this and did this, we might come up with a new formulation that might actually help something else. They’re still going to have to go through their clinical trials… At least they’ll be able to look at the data. If you don’t do that that means that the company can sit on that data for 12 years. Then they let the data out. Clinical trials will take another 7 years or more, so you’re going to have at least a whole 20 year run in there… before anyone can ever surface with anything even comparable to what that drug or that biologic is..."

And there is another video of Obama during the campaign where he said "Enough is enough" speaking of politicians who have a HC plan and then go to DC and meet with lobbyists and back away from their plan. He said he would not do that and then turned around and did the same thing in his deal with Tauzin. I'll find the video and post it here. We hear from the administration that entitlement spending needs to be controlled, but then they back away from allowing Medicare to negotiate drug prices.

:shrug:

This when the boomers will cause the Medicare enrollment to go from 46 million to 79 million in the next two decades.

:(

[slipslidingaway]

13. Video link - Candidate Obama "Enough is enough" ....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=420430&mesg_id=420457

Direct Youtube link, starts at the 4:55 mark...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8wmN3wvhNM

Candidate Obama ...

"And we are tired of watching as year after year, candidates offer up detailed health care plans with great fanfare and promise only to see them crushed under the weight of Washington politics and drug and insurance lobbying once the campaign is over.

That is not who we are, that is not who we have to be, enough is enough, it time for us to change."


...So the detailed plan by the candidate that could save up to 300 billion was replaced by a deal with the lobbyist Tauzin for 80 billion. The study referenced in the Obama plan may or may not account for the increased enrollment by the baby boomers, 46 million to 79 million over the next twenty years.

Tauzin got a good deal IMO, Medicare and seniors not so much.


Obama's $80 Billion Deal with Pharma Is a Very Bad Deal for Us

By William Greider, The Nation. Posted August 8, 2009.

http://www.alternet.org/health/141856

"The White House has cut a deal with Big Pharma that smells like the same old rotten politics that candidate Obama regularly denounced..."

[pleah]

15. Thank you. nt

[Mari333]

3. knr. damn.

[big lu]

4. Damn good video

thnx
k&r

[democracy1st]

5. this is why I gave up on this Goldman Sachs admin, everywhere you look more bs !

[Enthusiast]

25. It is difficult to generate any

feelings of goodwill toward the Obama Administration at this time. I did believe he was better than this.

[Goldstein1984]

6. Well said, Cenk: Throw the incumbents out

I'm not following the lesser-of-two-evils voting model in 2010 or 2012, I'm going to follow the heads-or-tails voting model.

[DrDan]

7. throw the bums out - could not agree more

depressing.

[emilyg]

12. +100

[Jester Messiah]

57. Because new bums are the solution?

Who would we replace the bums with? Honest, moral men and women of integrity? Because those are so plentiful in politics?

[DrDan]

65. so just leave the present crooks in their elected positions - at least we know these are crooks

is that your solution?

[Jester Messiah]

79. Sometimes the devil you know is preferable.

Sometimes. Mainly what I object to is knee-jerk solutions and simplistic mantras. Just "throwing the bums out" regardless of each individual's attitudes and agendas won't solve anything.

[DrDan]

80. no - much better to let the crooks win at their games. Let them profit at our expense.

a wise path . . .

[Jester Messiah]

81. Find a crook whose interests align with yours and profit mutually.

Sometimes it's all you can do.

[DrDan]

83. we certainly have a lot of crooks to choose from - on both sides of the aisle

[slipslidingaway]

8. knr nt

[JDPriestly]

9. Great post

[pundaint]

11. Some of us hoped to get the right Democrat in the MA senate primary, but all 4

candidates were DLC Obamabots on the healthcare sellout, so the only way to bring change was to deny the misdirecting leadership more power. Cenk is right, it's important to get opportunities to vote for populist progressive Democrats willing to govern in the interests of the people. I am encouraged by that 8% poll result. We are not alone, let's all wield our power in our own personal interests, not the usurpers who have sold us out from the seats we lent them. Democrats who wont work for the People are no better for us than Republicans. Do we have a volunteer for MA 2?

Do not accept excuses or promises from incumbents who have sold us out, vote on delivered legislation only.

[swilton]

37. +1

I'm trying to move to Mass. in 2010 - hopefully you'll continue to enlighten us, Pundaint!

[Jester Messiah]

58. Can't take someone seriously when they employ the term "Obamabots."

It's just so indicative of having nothing constructive to add to the conversation.

[pleah]

14. K AND R!

[ProSense]

16. Cenk is missing a big link and conflating issues.

Medicare Part D mentioned in the clip is separate from the Pharma deal. In fact, together with the $80 billion in additional savings from the deal, the total cuts in payments to insurers and drug companies is nearly $600 billion (including about the $500 billion from closing the doughnut hole).

Still, it's amazing that people continue to claim that $80 billion is nothing when, in fact, that is likely more than the savings that will be realized under drug reimportation. Again, why does Cenk ignore the $500 billion?

[Umbral]

19. And your missing the big picture and obfuscating issues...

but that, apparently, is part of your job description.

[ProSense]

20. No, it's just that $600 billion destroys the spin. n/t

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[laughingliberal]

30. $80 billion over 10 years is the total amount of savings PhRMA agreed to

The House bill contains additional savings in giving Medicare the ability to negotiate prices but there is nothing in the Senate bill except the measly (yeah, it's a measly 8% when the drug companies have already raised prices 10% since the debate began) $8 billion a year for 10 years.

If you dispute that I suggest you post the section of the Senate bill where the additional savings from the deal exist. Cause I've read the bill and I've seen nothing.

[Jamel]

36. Let's get real

Do you really think Obama has the "POWER" to go up against these corporations? The first "African American" president is supposed to come in and change everything ? Yes, he made campaign promises that I'm sure he intended to keep, but once he got into office, I know he was "struck" with what he was up against. You start messing with people's money in these corporations, and see where it gets you. It's just not that simple to change. And I'm sure he was ill- advised on making deals that he thought would make it easier to get healthcare and some kind of affordable drug program. I've been very disappointed by people on the left, who expected this "magic president" to come in and change things completely. Where's the "rational, realistic thinking " that we're supposed to have? Where's the support? How about calling him out on the policies we don't agree with, rather than saying thing like,"I supported this guy's campaign" and I'm sorry now ,and "he's just like the rest of them". I refuse to put full blame on him, and I believe he has the country's best interest in mind. You guys who keep putting him down are doing the right wing's job for them, and your going to guarantee a republican victory in 2012.

[quark219]

47. Yes, let's get real--let me step you through it.

I understand your desire to support America's first African American president. There is no disputing that Barack Obama is a significant improvement over George W. Bush in a hundred different ways. He is more intelligent, more hard-working, more sophisticated, and has a personality that is more likable both here and abroad.

But there are, nonetheless, issues at stake in this presidency that transcend race. This is a case of the world's most powerful country inching ever closer during the past 30 years toward fascism; of corrupt policies slowly destroying a middle class that was once the envy of the world; of a grand experiment in government "of the people, by the people, and for the people" being bastardized into a rapacious feeding ground for predatory capitalism; of a democracy being subverted by a corporatocracy.

The 2008 election was a turning point in American history; you could feel it. The nation was in serious need of a significant change of course. Enter Barack Obama. Here was a candidate offering HOPE and CHANGE. Those were his words and they resonated.

The tide of history dictates that when a society's distribution of wealth becomes as imbalanced and unjust as it is in ours right now, a correction will occur, sooner or later, peaceful or otherwise. The last time such conditions existed, it was followed by the Great Depression and we were blessed with the presidency of Franklin Delano Roosevelt. In aggressive moves that quite possibly circumvented a collapse of the government, he swiftly instituted progressive policies that set this country up for a run of prosperity that lasted decades.

But to bring about the kind of change that FDR made, you have to be willing to confront the rich--not cozy up to them, not meet with them behind closed doors to make special deals with them, and certainly not appoint them positions in your administration.

FDR, in speaking of the rich and powerful who were opposing his policies, famously said, "I welcome their hatred."

Last week it was announced that the CEOs of Goldman Sachs and JPMorgan Chase would be receiving $26 million bonuses using money stolen--I think no other word accurately describes the situation--from the U.S. taxpayers. When asked about this, Obama said he did not "begrudge people success or wealth" and complimented the two bankers for being "very savvy businessmen."

It comes down to this. We thought Obama might be an FDR. We thought he might be a fighter. We believed that he was on the side of the average American.

Sadly, a year into his administration, it's becoming clear that he is none of those things.

[Grinchie]

53. Well Said Quark

What the Corporate power brokers hate most are people that have Ethical Honesty and are willing to focus all their attention on calling them out and exposing the corruption.

Unfortunately, Obama has taken the easy way out and joined the club in order to avoid the difficult task ahead, most likely at the insistence of the DLC Faction infesting his administration, who has probably promised anarchy if the fraud that is the American Economy and the Military Industrial Complex were to be allowed to collapse into a heap and be reborn.

This Administration lost any resemblence to what was presented during the campaign almost a year ago now, and the groundswell of public dissatisfaction is getting too large to ignore. Perhaps the PTB just wanted another year or two to prepare for the collapse.

[Mike K]

73. Let's Get Real?

Do you really think Obama has the "POWER" to go up against these corporations? "The first African American president is supposed to come in and change everything ? Yes, he made campaign promises that I'm sure he intended to keep, but once he got into office, I know he was "struck" with what he was up against. You start messing with people's money in these corporations, and see where it gets you. It's just not that simple to change. And I'm sure he was ill- advised on making deals that he thought would make it easier to get healthcare and some kind of affordable drug program."<...>

This apology for Obama's failures seems, to me, uncomfortably similar to the many cop-outs I've heard issued by Black defense lawyers on behalf of Black defendants who should, according to them, be forgiven for their sins because of their ethnic handicap. I hope you'll pardon my frankness, which is not intended to offend, but Candidate Obama's brilliantly assertive and relentlessly confident campaign rhetoric did not include a proviso anticipating the potentially negative effect of his presumptive handicap.

Briefly stated, if Obama doesn't have what it takes to stand up to his opponents he should not have gotten into the ring with them. So I respectfully submit to you that excuses for Obama's actions, and for his lack of actions, are unacceptable. Because if his failures as President are the result of his being a Black man, it logically follows that Americans should never elect another Black man to the Presidency -- or to any other political office.

[slipslidingaway]

39. Video - watch P. Obama talk about the doughnut hole and the 80 billion...

dollar deal.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/24023.html

Why are you ignoring the 300 billion figure, Medicare negotiating prices, mentioned in the Obama/Biden HC plan that is no longer part of the plan.

[slipslidingaway]

42. Post links to the numbers you are talking about, also you always forget...

the 300 billion mentioned in the Obama/Biden HC plan.

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/issues/HealthCareFullPlan.pdf

"Allow Medicare to negotiate for cheaper drug prices.

The 2003 Medicare Prescription Drug Improvement and Modernization Act bans the government from negotiating down the prices of prescription drugs, even though the Department of Veterans Affairs’ negotiation of prescription drug prices with drug companies has garnered significant savings for taxpayers.32 Barack Obama and Joe Biden will repeal the ban on direct negotiation with drug companies and use the resulting savings, which could be as high as $30 billion,33 to further invest in improving health care coverage and quality."

[Festivito]

76. Yes, also... This is 20 minutes of telling me that we don't fund our elections. A WASTE.

Obama WANTS to end something, is NOT saying that he HAS ENDED something.

The rest of the video rightfully points out that we do not fund our own elections with 20-minutes of numbers and examples that we don't fund our own elections -- I KNOW WE DON'T FUND OUR OWN ELECTIONS AND THAT THE CORPORATIONS DO.

If Obama were to piss away corporate funding across the board at this point, he'd then be accused of sending Dems to a gun fight holding knives come next election.

Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

If the OP and Cenk want to complain that Obama hasn't done this yet, then complain he has not done this yet, not complaining that he's lying when he's not lying.

[DeSwiss]

17. K&R

- The system is so corrupt at this point, nothing short than what Cenk is calling for: "A Revolution" has any hope of saving this country.

[20score]

18. Best argument I've heard for, "throw the bums out." K&R

[republicansarewhores]

22. Can we all get our campaign donations back?

It's obvious we couldn't afford to buy the President's loyalty like big pharma, however he did not honor the promises that we placed our faith, support and CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS in. Wanna play footsie with big phrama Mr. President? Great. GIVE US ALL OUR MONEY BACK.

RAW

[quark219]

49. +1 Well said. [N/T]

[Skittles]

23. Obama learned how to play the game better

:thumbsdown:

[OneBlueSky]

24. so let's tally this all up . . .

Congress (the Legislative branch) -- bought and paid for . . .

the President (the Executive branch) -- bought and paid for . . .

the Courts (the Judicial branch) -- bought and paid for . . .

all three branches of government, which are supposed to impose checks and balances on one another, are bought and paid for by the corporations . . . our government is one of the corporations, by the corporations, and for the corporations -- and the revolving door between the corporations and government is spinning at a dizzying rate . . .

we, the people, no longer have any representation in Washington . . . government, which is supposed to derive from the consent of the governed, is now 100% in the back pockets of the rich and powerful . . . the rest of us? . . . guess we can eat cake -- if we can afford it . . .

[pokercat999]

27. There is no question in my mind that it is time to change

systems. The problem is the people won't move until things get so bad they have no choice. At that time it will be easier for someone to take over as a dictator and we know what happens then.

[Grinchie]

54. Guess what, State and County Governments are Corporations Too!

And thay all have Armies of Lawyers called Corporation Counsel to defend and protect their Corrupt toadies from any wrongdoing.

They are so well protected from Accountability, that they no longer worry about pissing off the citizenry, simply because all of their Legal Fee's are paid by the Tax Payers! Talk about a sweet deal.

The intricate connections are so well maintained that the Corporations can get any judgement they want from Government or the Legal system. Just look at the recent Supreme Court decision regarding Corporate Campaign Donations.. So Blatant, So In our faces, and they expect us to continue supported this scheme...

Good luck with that.

At this point, it feels like it is better to embargo Lawyers, Corporate Products, Live simply, walk away from that version of the American Dream that requires selling your soul for a McMansion that you are never in because you are a slave to the Rat Race to pay for it. Eschew the long commute and live with the family and cultivate a love of work that serves us personally, and not some Corporate master. This is the only thing that will break the back of this corrupted fascist machine and allow real change to occur, simply because the machine will be powerless to affect change without resorting to the Police powers it has built up since the 80's. If they do that, then it's game over for them.

[ChiciB1]

86. Grinchie, I Agree With You About Walking Away, Get Simpler & Basically

STARVE the BEAST! Our family has "downsized" and have found ways to cut corners BECAUSE of what is happening to this country. And since we have done this, we are keeping our heads above the water. But I count myself among the lucky, and there are so many more who can't "squeeze" down anymore. Actually, they've been "squeezed out" and have NOTHING left and are in the hole, scratching and grabbing onto ANYTHING to climb a little way back!

IF this action by the WH and our Congress Critters continues, we will soon see a DEPRESSION that may rival the one way back when! And, as it's been said here.... we DON'T have an FDR or a leader who is willing to call a stop to this rampage on "we the citizens" because they've found themselves in a place where too many palms need to be greased.

Those IOU's that are out there will need to be paid, so therefore the situation is even more dire! At the time of The Great Depression there were far fewer people in America which makes the problem today even more immense.

Given this, the unrest will continue and not only will the Tea Party need to be dealt with, perhaps another upheaval will be upon us. And if it's not with those of us who are Progressives (or Liberals) we will be at a greater disadvantage!

This sets a very dark scenario, regardless of what we are being told by MSM that the economy is recovering. Here in Florida, the local news said that Florida is experiencing a foreclosure rate of 1 in 187! I realize that Florida has been one of the hardest hit states, but even so these figures are astounding!

[gorfle]

26. K&R.

This is extremely depressing. My sense of hope and change has changed to hopelessness and stagnation.

[DisgustedInMN]

28. Has anyone checked the White House for pods?

The guy occupying it, looks exactly like the one I voted for, but acts like someone totally different. Methinks the Body Snatchers have Invaded.

[glinda]

46. Like the ones that took over Governor PODlenty?

[DisgustedInMN]

74. You mean our Driveby Governor?

The one that thinks the "fix" to every problem is a tax cut for his cronies?

[glinda]

90. Yup. One in the same!

[hayrow]

29. Still anyone believe Ralph Nader did not speak the truth in 2000?

Only problem, not Tweedledum and Tweedledummer. More like Bonny and Clyde.

[Capitalocracy]

92. "Uncle Tom" indeed... couldn't have been more right

Why did Wall Street, the insurance industry, and big pharma give him so much campaign money? Because he's their man. Prepare to be disappointed.

and the Dems called him a "racist".

[olegramps]

31. Throw the bums out sounds good, but is it really the solution:

The major issue is that 92% of the citizens know they are being screwed and there is at present nothing that they can do about it. Obama's promise of real change has been for the most part a disastrous failure. People ask why aren't those in the Bush administration being held accountable for "shredding the Constitution" outing secret agents that were dedicated to protecting us and starting an illegal war. Where is the promised reform of Wall Street and the Banking Industry? The Health Care Reform that we were promised is a total fiasco of the first order. Not to mention the promised income tax reform. I realize that the Republicans are obstructionists and the administration has made some advances, but President Obama has failed to take the lead and be the champion of the citizens in regard to major issues. His naive dream of bipartisan cooperation that he continues to pursue is an exercise in futility.

The Democratic Party is failing it primary purpose of protecting the interest of the Working Class citizens against the power of corporations. I am convinced that there is little hope for any redirection and dedication to the Party's principles regardless how many bums you throw out. I would hope for the formation of a Working People's Party that could be developed from the core of organized labor that has numerous leaders that could lead a grass roots rebellion that would appeal to both Democrats and Republicans. It would be demand a fair share of the profits, stimulation of basic industries, halting outsourcing, health care for all, affordable college educations, a progressive income tax and confiscatory inheritance taxes, etc., etc. Now that would be real change that I could believe in.

[snagglepuss]

34. well said. nt

[Jefferson23]

32. Words fail me, K&R

I just sent this video link in an email to the WH, asking for a response.

They need to know that Americans are aware of it.

[Slit Skirt]

33. I told my kids...that Obama might be the same as the others

but if there was going to be any change, he would be the one to do it....

my kids didn't believe me and I have been proven wrong

[MissDeeds]

35. We need to throw the bums out

But how can we be assured that new bums won't take their places? All of the campaign lies, all of the talking points are for the sole purpose of getting elected. I for one am going to look closely at the candidate's record, not what is promised as a course of action, but what has been a history of action. And that certainly doesn't mean great speechifying preceded by a record of voting "present".

[beaujolais]

56. I looked at Obamas record but there wasn't much there...

How come the media didn't tell us more about him?

I'm new here but I am interested about what to do next time. I heard he was a constitutional scholar and very smart so I voted for him.

He's also black so I thought he would know what racism is like and he would be fair.

Do you think the media did a good job? and how do we know next time?

[MissDeeds]

69. The media is almost worthless

Only a few can be relied on to dig deep and ask the tough questions. It's pretty much up to each voter to find out about the candidates and explore his/her record.

By the way, welcome to DU!

:hi:

[beaujolais]

71. Thanks!

I feel like I am among friends here.

[xxqqqzme]

77. Grover norquist has rethug congress critters and

state legislators taking a pledge to vote against ANY tax increases proposed for anything. If they vote for increases the rethug smear machine springs into action and they suddenly find they have an opponent in the primary flaming them as liberal! These bastards refuse to vote to raise taxes out of fear of what their own party will do to them!

We need a little of the fear in the hearts of DLC/blue dog democrats in the opposite direction. They need to be smeared as conservative - that word has to be THE worst thing you can call a politician. It has to scream

UN-ELECTABLE

[leeroysphitz]

38. Jesus. If we could just find a way to get that clip on one of the news channels...

[ihavenobias]

40. Did anyone on MSNBC cover this? n/t

[slipslidingaway]

41. Yes and this should have been covered back in September when Senator Carper...

talked about the deal during HC negotiations.


Senator Carper Publicly Defends Secret PhRMA Deal In Exchange For Support Ads

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6622945&mesg_id=6622945

"In a stunning moment during the Senate Finance Committee markup Sen. Tom Carper defended a secret deal that the White House, Baucus, and PhRMA had reached. The White House has long denied the deal. Carper publicly acknowledges that part of the deal was that PhRMA would run millions of dollars worth of campaign ads in support of health care reform..."

[ihavenobias]

45. Check this out from 6 months ago, August...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRK_Xw1KG9U

Cenk caught a ton of heat from a good number of people at the time for this. Just like he was ripped a new one at DailyKos when he ranted against the bailouts (this was back when they were originally proposed). The sad thing is, some of those fools are still slamming him.

Apparently it's not only the right that can be immune to facts at times.

[slipslidingaway]

51. IMHO Cenk is right, unfortunately anyone who raises concerns...

is either ignored or marginalized.

In this October 2008 speech Obama spoke of candidates who had HC plans and then went to DC, met with lobbyists and cut a deal that went against their original plan. That is exactly what he did just a few months later.

:(

Too bad this part comes towards the end of the video, about the 4:45 mark
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8wmN3wvhNM

From this speech...

http://www.asksam.com/ebooks/releases.asp?file=Obama-Speeches.ask&dn=Health%20Care

Title< Health Care[br />Date< October 04, 2008[br />Location< Newport News, VA [br />
Thanks for the link :)

[Grinchie]

63. Propaganda can't withstand facts or reality forever...

Propaganda relies on people too stupid, too tired, too busy, too lazy, to specialized, too well trained, too medicated, too ill, too malnourished, or too brainwashed to check the facts themselves. They rely on the susceptible to waive any independant thought in lieu of what they hear from "Experts" or people they perceive as "Authorities" on the subject. The message from the "Expert" is good enough for them, and unfortunately, our Corporate run educational system has raised a few hundred million of these people from early age to be perfect receivers of the Propaganda message.

However, people do learn to protect themselves after being burned, and this burn really hurts. The Propaganda machine is playing with rules that are almost 40 years old, and people are evolving to smell bullshit from a mile away. It doesn't take too many drinks of Roundup to determine that hey, it isn't as Harmless as Monsanto's marketing guy's told us.

The Powers That Be are at a loss to find a new system or shock that will regain control of the evolving masses that are getting restless for the heads of the Corporate Crew that has destroyed our planet, economy, and democracy.

[slipslidingaway]

67. Great post and I believe you covered most bases ...

"Propaganda relies on people too stupid, too tired, too busy, too lazy, to specialized, too well trained, too medicated, too ill, too malnourished, or too brainwashed to check the facts themselves..."

:)

[ima_sinnic]

43. I'm truly embarrassed I persuaded people to vote for him

I won't make that mistake again. People can vote for whomever they want, I don't give a shit anymore. It doesn't matter anyway, they're all just corrupt liars, hypocrites, and greedheads.

[quark219]

48. +1 on the embarrassment thing. [N/T]

[impik]

60. Yea, i'm embarrased that you vote for him too.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Grinchie]

50. Right on Cenk! We need more awake people like you that are able to see past the smoke and mirrors.

I know Cenk had to walk a tightrope as Obama inexorably descended into the pit of the DLC vipers nest, and I commend Cenk on being able to resist the rage many of us were feeling, all the way back in April of 2009 as Obama broke one promise after another in blatant, rapid fire succession in order to placate his DLC masters.

I know that I was not so tolerant of Obama's so called "Three Dimensional Chess" strategy, simply because the chorus of DU'ers here were a bunch of cheerleaders that could not allow themselves to see the abusive relationship developing within their own household.

To those cheerleaders that dismissed the people that saw this toxic administration blossom and take control, after all of the rhetoric of hope and change, I hope that for once you can learn a lesson about marketing coupled with political avarice, coupled with corporate influence that cares nothing for it's responsibilities commensurate with the power they have.

As time progresses, it is very clear that I have made the right decision to starve the Corporate machine, the existing system, and fight the Social Plague infecting America by choosing an alternative, less consumptive lifestyle, and produce as much as I can for myself.

As these Corporations starve to death, everyone will see that the law's are about as meaningless as toilet paper if there is no-one willing to enforce them. When that happens, then people will actually start questioning where their Tax dollars are going, and demand something in return, instead of settling for nothing, and watching "Sustainable War" proliferate over the globe.

We are watching the collapse of a system that is based on Fiat Money Supply printing, and the production is taking a back seat. It's due for a fall, regardless of whether the poorly educated are willing to see the precipice up ahead.

[Dinger]

55. K & Rec # 77 (nt)

[impik]

59. Bunch of rumors with no shred of proof

Pathetic Teabagging from the Left. Amazing.

[asdjrocky]

62. It helps if you wear a blindfold

and cover up your ears. That's always be the best defence against the truth.

[ihavenobias]

66. Here are the sources for the claims in this video.

http://blog.sunlightfoundation.com/2010/02/12/the-legacy-of-billy-tauzin-the-white-house-phrma-deal/

Now you debunk them with equally credible, non-partisan sources. Or just make generic, unsupported insults because the facts contradict your hopes and wishes, it's up to you.

[ProSense]

68. That is not the source for Cenk's bogus innuendo. In fact, the piece

simply reviews already reported news about the deal, and end with this:

In the end, the pharmaceutical industry’s support for health care reform would be left up in the air. After spending $100 million in advertising in support of legislation that Tauzin and key executives hoped would be a windfall for the pharmaceutical industry, the legislative process had flat-lined. In February, the board of PhRMA, split over the deal cut by Tauzin, pushed Tauzin to resign his post.

In an interview with Diane Sawyer, President Obama owed up to failures in the process of passing health care reform, “(T)he health care debate as it unfolded legitimately raised concerns not just among my opponents, but also amongst supporters that we just don’t know what’s going on … And it’s an ugly process and it looks like there are a bunch of back room deals.”

It's simply a rehash of everything that everyone already knew. Cenk made sure to embellish it with his own bogus innuendo.

[ihavenobias]

70. I'm going to repeat my bottom line just so we're clear.

The Bottom Line: You can't argue any of this based on the facts. You don't like what Cenk is saying (i.e. the facts he's presenting in his particular style, the style is a preference some like and some dislike, fair enough), but you can't address it, so you resort to personal attacks and trying to undermine his credibility by making a poorly thought out, unsupported claim that his criticisms are based on wanting to 'hype the show'. That strategy is incredibly dishonest and unproductive, and if that's all you have to offer, I have nothing more to say. I mean, you could have posted a thoughtful thread that carefully breaks down each of Cenk's (sourced) claims, but you didn't. You purposely posted a thread with zero substance and a provocative title to try and get more support in bashing TYT.

[quark219]

78. You go, Ihavenobias! :)

I'm with you on your well-stated defense 100%.

One can debate points with intellectual honesty or not. In reading this thread, you and Cenk are on the right side of that coin. And the detractors? I see some red herrings, some unsupported statements pulled out of thin air, and some name-calling--not much else.

[jgraz]

82. Off the top rope.

Funny how some people are able to nail ProSense in one take.

[Grinchie]

88. It isn't hard to make Prosense look like a fool -- He does most of it himself.

Additionally, all the self awarded Valentines hearts are a dead giveaway for the shill factor.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

87. Way to go Tom

Personal attacks is all they have left, facts are facts. Tell Cenk thank you for this.

[ChiciB1]

61. So Many Of Us Have Known Things Have Been Going On, AND We've

been "carping" as some would say about ALL OF THIS... but tell me HOW you can IGNORE this type of stuff and STILL stand and be a CHEER LEADER for what KEEPS going on!

When will it ever stop? I know I'm not a person who can run, and I'm almost SURE I know where I LIVE a REAL Democrat would ever be elected or even an Independent! I feel so frustrated, hurt and betrayed! Most of all I also feel beaten down each and every day when I see AND hear more and more of this kind of CRAP!

This country is coming apart at the seams, and all I can think of is ROME when I hear ANOTHER story like this one. YOU CAN NOT dismiss TYT (Cenk) and what he's saying, it's as plain as the nose on your face! Throwing up "lists" of what this WH and/or Congress Critters have done simply WILL NOT hold up to the HUGE slap in the face we have gotten with S--t like this!

To me it's simply impossible to condone OR support "more of the same!" My wish is that there will be people who will run.... BUT THIS information must be put out there to be SEEN, and I fear MOST citizens of this country will NEVER see it!

And that's what THEY know in Washington D.C.! They simply don't care!!

So when the uprising begins, I want to be on the front lines!!! There MUST be an uprising because this country won't make it unless there is! It's gotten much too far out of control!!

[Grinchie]

64. It's easy when cheerleading keeps the Golden Goose alive.

The cheerleaders are most likely fighting for their lives, deep in debt, easily manipulated or threatened into doing things they think will keep them secure.

They obviously are not smart enough or have any ethical honesty to stand in the way of promoting non-reality.

These are the people that are going to have a severe body blow and shock to the system when either their belief or payoff melts into a puddle of empty words.

[MrMickeysMom]

72. Damn!

He is so THERE...

We were ALMOST there in 92 with Tsongas (remember him?) and the Concord Coalition. The SINGLE most important issue THEN was campaign finance reform.

What can you say about this unrequited love today? Are we finally fed up with "the bums?

REALLY?

[ro1942]

75. Don't always agree with Cenk

But that was good reporting,thanks for posting

[brand404]

84. Geez, we got screwed!

[ChiciB1]

85. Got Screwed??? I'm Thinking the Screwing Is Still Quite Active & Working

behind the scenes at ALL levels of our Government!! I suppose since we're in the age of The Internet we get "more" information a LOT quicker, but if it's TRUE and can be substantiated, then WE HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO KNOW!!

Still, that does NOT mean we can do ANYTHING about it, when so many ARE on THEIR side, AND they have almost ALL of the MONEY!!

Sure we can try to fight, but the fight seems all but FUTILE!! Yea, it's a sorry state and a real bummer and I don't know when or how it can be stopped!

We can GRIPE all we want, but until we can mount a real OFFENSIVE it seems it will simply continue and perhaps actually grow LARGER!

HOPE & CHANGE... sounded really really good, but then a lot of "sounds" don't top the charts!

[brand404]

89. I stand corrected! Thank you!

[Capitalocracy]

91. I think we should stick a Gate on the end of this - Pharmagate?

I know, I know, Obama's supposed to be on our side, but I still think as much attention needs to be called to this BS as possible. We should stick a -gate on the end of it and call it Pharmagate, what do you think?

[ihavenobias]

93. Kick n/t