Bart Cop slams man into window---it shatters and causes injury

[trumad]

Run time: 01:18 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBFjP-GV8BE   Posted on YouTube: November 23, 2009 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: November 23, 2009 By DU Member: trumad Views on DU: 5286

 
I think it's clear that the Cop made a mistake by slamming the drunk guy into the window. He had no reason to do that because the guy was not resisting.

Is this a case of excessive force??? I think so.

BTW: Here's a link of a CNN piece on this and an interview with Bart authorities.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/22/california.transit.police.scuffle/index.html

[NWHarkness]

1. Oh, A Bart cop

not THE BartCop.

[NoPasaran]

2. LOL!

I had the exact same reaction.

[aquart]

13. Me, too.

And for the first time I contemplate what the name might possibly mean.

[KansDem]

42. I thought the same thing!

I thought the man with "A modem, a smart mouth and the truth" finally got physical!

[intheflow]

68. Yep, it should read BART cop, not Bart Cop.

BIG difference!

[seattle_blue]

71. i c now

why did bart cop not bart cop slam guy into window i was thinking..had me fooled!

[Cha]

106. I totally thought it was Bart Cop..WTH!

[imdjh]

3. It would never occur to me that a BART station had thin plain glass windows.

I would have no more expected that window to break than I would the window of a jewelry store.

To answer your question: In my opinion the officer did nothing wrong.

[lame54]

4. whatever

[imdjh]

9. How old are you?

[izquierdista]

35. Apparently old enough to recognize a cop apologist

My opinion? That cop needs to be fired.

[dotymed]

55. Whole heartedly agreed.

It is amazing that living in a police state, has so many
people that worship the brutality of their oppressors. The guy
was drunk and menacing. He should be subdued with minimal
force and removed. Not brutalized. In the morning, the guy
will probably be embarrassed and eventually prosecuted.
Amazingly, if they (cops)attack you, you are charged with
felony assault, resisting, attempted murder, intimidation of a
police officer and probably a dozen more offenses, after
getting the hell beat out of you. Americans in another time
would have never put up with this. I bet if the guy was
smoking weed instead of drinking, he would have been non-
aggressive. They would have at least had to taser him anyway
for possession... 

[tomm2thumbs]

8. I betcha some contractor used cheap glass - that should be safety glass

Anything that you could run towards at arm level along a concourse should be safety glass.

I don't know how many stories I have heard about kids playing basketball on their driveway, running towards the garage door to stop themselves and running their arms right through the glass windows. When they pull back, their skin is basically turned to ribbons.

My guess is a contractor/design engineer/inspector is going to be held accountable, whether or not the officer is also part of the mix.

[imdjh]

10. I hate it when that happens. My sister did that with an old (pre safety glass) storm door.

[tomm2thumbs]

24. if you ever go to a glass factory/installer, ask them for their horror stories

they have plenty

[Seldona]

49. Of course!

All glass windows should be designed so a cop can throw you, face-first, into them. Who would expect a plate-glass window to break? If he has that level of intelligence, he shouldn't be allowed near fake guns.

Thanks Officer Friendly!

[imdjh]

73. Naw, as a society we spend the big bucks for safety glass because scumbags who are a drain on ....

.... on society can't stand to leave stuff they didn't pay for alone. We have to have special paint so people whose cultural expression runs to writing "fuck you" on the sides of buildings can more easily be cleaned up after. We have to spend a fortune on locks and security systems right down to our bicycles and scooters, billions of dollars on a societal scale, because "society failed" people who "made a mistake" and those who make excuses for such people. Put the cuffs on as many as possible and maybe people will get the message that "be yourself" doesn't mean be a self centered feral dirtbag.

[tomm2thumbs]

104. +1 I honked at a guy tagging a freeway wall and he turned and threw a brick at my car

And you know what - that motherf**ker got caught. I made sure of it. I blocked his car so he couldn't leave till the police arrived. We as a society need to stop letting those that want to break the laws that affect us all do it with abandon. Terrorizing other citizens who are just going about their lives is not a cry for help. It's a cry for the law to intercede.

I made sure that idiot who thought he was gonna make someone else get their due - got HIS due. I wrote a clear & thorough statement the night of the incident while it was fresh in my head. I was subpoenaed multiple times to court. I followed up with every detail. And this guy, who was covered in spray paint denied everything - he was unwilling to claim his 'work' once discovered. Like a small little lying fool. And he was over 18 so it was an automatic felony with the damage he did. The local cops knew that the city would probably slap him on the wrist so they summoned the Highway Patrol because they take this crap seriously and it was technically their juridiction anyway.

And I slept really good that night. The minute we recoil to the idiots that think they can do what they want, when they want, without consequences - that is the time we may as well turn the keys over to the darker side of society.

You throw a brick at me? You are going to get everything coming to you.

[imdjh]

107. Good work!

[avaistheone1]

56. Officer exercised excessive force.

Looks like this cop has problems to me.

[greenman3610]

5. sounds like bystanders had had enough of the drunk

this reads more as a clumsy mistake than a deliberate abuse.

[trumad]

6. OK---what if the window was a wall?

Would that have been OK?

[exboyfil]

7. It looks like the guy swung his right arm into the window

You can't be certain, but it did not look like an out and out shove (like putting the guys face through the window). Is it not common procedure to put someone against a surface when cuffing him (and you have to admit the guy needed to be cuffed - just listen to the cheers in the train as he is brought off).

[imdjh]

11. It's funny. You can't smoke on an open air Bart platform, but you can be a drunk or drugged out

.... asshole, you can fart in the train, you can intimidate people as long as you don't actually threaten them or manhandle them, but you can't smoke.

[exboyfil]

14. Click to the CNN story it is hilarious

The sister said the police should have known the man was bipolar, and the cop should be fired because he has a combative mindset. Also one of the news items running beside the story:

Officer seen on video forcing head of unruly man into heavy-duty glass, which shattered


I guess allegedly does not apply when you are a cop.

[imdjh]

15. I'm sure he's a choir boy the other 364 days of the year.

[trumad]

20. Aint no alleged about it...

Did he slam the guy against the window or not?

[AtheistCrusader]

64. From this video, inconclusive.

The officer is bleeding, that is for sure. Possible the drunk made no contact with the window at all, and the officer broke the window with his own arm.

Is there another video from another vantage point, so we can see what contacted the window?

[trumad]

12. It is not common practice to slam a suspect against a wall, glass etc.

The guy did not resist the officer....and who cares about the cheers.

If he did not put his arm out it would have been his head.

The officer clearly used to much force in this incident.

[imdjh]

16. The guy is resisting the officer. Why are you trying to make the cop the bad guy?

[trumad]

18. Are you serious...

The officer walked in, grabbed the suspect, pulled the suspect across the station, and slammed him into the window.

Not once did the suspect resist...not once.

The cop used excessive force.

[imdjh]

21. Watch the video again, and notice the rigidity of the perp's arms.

[trumad]

22. Did he grab anyting? Nope...

Did he fight the officer...Nope.

Did he say anything...Nope.

The cop had his way with him and then slammed him against the window.

[imdjh]

26. Get a better cause.

[trumad]

28. That's it???

You're done with the debate?

You're fine with excessive force by Police officers?

Nice talking to you.

[NorCalDem]

52. "You're fine with excessive force by Police officers? "

No, not all at.

This wasn't excessive. Nothing to see here folks, move along.

Normally I'm the first one to jumps on combative cops, this is not one of those cases. "Get a better cause" is the perfect way to describe those that are "outraged" by this non-incident...

[AtheistCrusader]

99. When did you stop beating your wife?

Nice objective language you've got there. You assume this video depicts excessive force. Not a fact in evidence at this time.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

34. Your agenda is clear

Isn't it?

[TheEuclideanOne]

17. Sure he didn't resist. When he had his foot up against the wall he was just trying to tie his shoe.

I can believe that. :sarcasm:

It did not seem to be overly excessive to me. I have seen many examples here of excessive use of force and this is not one of them. It is not as though the cop could have just handed the suspect the cuffs and asked him to "put these on".

[trumad]

19. What foot up against the wall?

What are you talking about?

[TheEuclideanOne]

23. Ooops. My bad. It looks like it was his hand up against the wall.

When I first saw the video, it looked like he had his foot against the wall trying not to be cuffed. Somewhere around .30

[trumad]

25. The guy simply did not resist.

People are saying it was his arm that caused the break. Well I say that if he did not put his arm out, it would have been his face.

Folks here seem to say that this is OK, which I simply cannot believe.

[imdjh]

29. the cop got the worst injury, and it would not have happened absent this asshole on the train.

That's the bottom line. Gibson was a drunken asshole, who was the reason the cop got involved.

[trumad]

31. So---the cops wrong action caused him to injure himself...

Oh---OK

[TheEuclideanOne]

33. The jury is back and has already determined the cause of the actual accident/injury

It was: "Guy acting like asshole"

[dbmk]

46. That would imply a natural relation between that action and the result

And given that it took a cop flinging him against the window for no obvious reason to relate those two facts, then I would say that their finding was wrong.

He flung him against it + no reason to = Use of excessive force.

[TheEuclideanOne]

77. yes, there was a relationship here

The guy was drunk and disorderly and the copy was doing his job in arresting him. Isn't it typical for cops to push the guy up against a wall to cuff him? I have seen it done time after time, the only difference here was that it was glass and the glass broke. It is not as though the cop kept slamming him or rubbed his face in the glass. Seems to me like the only bad decision was to push him up against the glass instead of a more solid surface. Nobody really knows anything about the glass, either. You don't know how thick it is and neither do I. It was clearly not the type of glass you would find in front of a bank teller, so for all we know it could be broken easily.

With all that being said, if you don't want cops to arrest you and slam you into a wall while they are cuffing you, don't walk onto a train, sloppy drunk and start screaming at people like a drunken asshole. I would not say "no obvious reason". In fact, I would consider it to be a really obvious reason.

[dbmk]

114. He did not walk him up to a wall and held him there

He *threw* him against it (window or wall is immaterial to me really). Look at it again. He is swinging him into it.

He might as well have punched him, as far as potential results go. If not worse.

And I saw no reason to in that clip.

I don't subscribe to the fact that being drunk and screaming warrants a violent arrest. Until its proven that such force is needed.

Or at least don't complain if a cop beats you up for violating the speed limit. You had it coming.

[NorCalDem]

53. "So---the cops wrong action caused him to injure himself..."

NO, the cop made no wrong action.

This is one of the clearest cases of non-police brutality I have ever seen on one of these Youtube clips. There is literally nothing to see here folks, move along. Try trying to make something out of nothing.

[dbmk]

47. So if the cop had tried to shoot him

And shot himself in the foot, the drunk guy would be reponsible for that too?

I did not really see anything in that video that prompted a need for anyone or anything to be hurt/broken.

[greenman3610]

119. yes.

no broken glass.
Obnoxious drunks get no sympathy from me.
15 years as street medic.

[Renew Deal]

27. That was an accident. No excessive force.

It reminds me of a hockey game I went to around 10 years ago. It was the night before Thanksgiving. The Islanders were playing the Flyers at Nassau Coluseum. I could see something brewing in the seats just before the game ended. After the game everyone exited into the area where the concessions and the doors are. This area is surrounded by 15'-20' tall glass. A wild brawl started right away with many combatants. There were even guys throwing punches at security. The cops were no where to be seen. There was a group of fighting guys up against that glass. It bent, but it didn't break. The cops eventually showed up. That's got to be one of the craziest fights I've ever seen.

[trumad]

30. No it wasn't

The dude marched a compliant perp across the aisle and slammed him into a window. It was purposely done.

If the perp did not put his arm up to protect himself....it would have been his face.

The officer could have put the perp on the ground and cuffed him..

[imdjh]

32. Oh, like people like you wouldn't have accused the cop of excessive force for putting him...

..... on the ground? What if he got a bruise?

Face it, you thought you were going to say, "See, they're at it again." and everyone was going to agree with you and bitch and moan along with you but it didn't happen. That's because most people know that those are the same cops that keep the animals from attacking at will.

[trumad]

43. WOW...

So you are into excessive force.

Douche

[Renew Deal]

37. It's easy to be an armchair quarterback

[Phoonzang]

36. At least the cop attempted to physically take the guy down and

didn't resort to repeatedly tasering the guy.

[Renew Deal]

38. Interesting point

The taser is bad news.

[proReality]

39. If I saw a wall of glass coming at me...

I would have put my arm out too, drunk or not, because I wouldn't want my head to be smashed into something like that. That's just instinct.

It did look like the cop sped up the closer he got to that wall, but it's impossible to know whether he was doing that intentionally or if it was because the drunk was off balance and lurching, as drunks are wont to do.

I can't honestly say the cop was using excessive force. Neither can I say he wasn't. Seems to me there is reasonable doubt in this case.

But I'm appalled with the comments of those on the train. There's just nothing more exciting than seeing someone get beaten and bloodied for some people.



Edited for spelling.

[AtheistCrusader]

65. This is about the only reasonable reply I've seen in this thread.

Thank you.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

72. Good insight

It does look like the cop sped up as he ran the guy into the glass, but it could have been the guy stumbling from being drunk. I agree that it is really hard to say either way from the video whether or not he was using excessive force. The guy broke the glass but anyone would have put their hand up to shield themselves from being thrown into it.

But it doesnt stop anyone here from calling the video "cased closed" either way. What a surprise :sarcasm:

[Hassin Bin Sober]

103. The cop planted his left foot and tossed with his right side - not unlike tossing a heavy bag.

His right foot even comes off the floor from the momentum/follow-through.

I've studied Judo for 20 plus years. I have a pretty good idea how the body works in relation to an "opponent's" and it's very clear the cop meant to slam this guy against the window with a little extra "english"

I'm sure he thought the guy's face would bounce off.

[Piewhacket]

40. I live here. Excessive stupid. The BART Board is heading for the unemployment line.

Another royal fuck-up by BART police.
It was the standard 'run his head into the wall".

The guy was drunk and disorderly on a BART train,
too plowed to pose any threat to the officer.
The officer seemed to have no difficulty handling him.

Just remove him from the train without injuring anyone,
arrest him for drunk and disorderly, which would be correct,
instead of all the crap charges.

This officer should get sick leave, then a 3 month suspension without pay,
plus pay for injuries he inflicted with this excessive force.
If he has another incident on his record - then hit the
unemployment line and blacklist him for LE.

The suspect should (will) be released with minor charges.

They need to quit hiring vets just back from iraq,
and whack jobs who don't seem to get that this isn't
a video game.

[trumad]

41. He had no reason to slam the guy against the glass...

None---

Two stations down is where the Bart Cop shot and killed a man---what seven months ago?

[axollot]

44. And that was out right murder! n/t

[trumad]

45. yeah---I'm sure imdjh thought the dude had it coming.

[NorCalDem]

54. "yeah---I'm sure imdjh thought the dude had it coming."

Of course not, but nice straw man nonetheless.

I live in the Bay Area, my wife and I take Bart on a daily basis. This is literally the least offensive "police brutality" youtube clip I have ever seen.

The cop, if given the chance again, would probably chose not to put the perp against the wall, but to call this police brutality is an insult to law enforcement and common sense. Save your outrage people, this is a god damned joke...

[trumad]

57. I've taken Bart hundreds of times myself..

So I guess that makes me an expert as well.

Do you think it is justified for a Bart Cop to slam a guy into a glass window?

That's what he did and it is wrong.

[NorCalDem]

60. If you take BART as well...

then I'm sure you know all about the characters, drunks, druggies, and vagabonds that can be found on the BART at all hours of the day. While I don't have a problem with people like this normally, this guy was not at all popular on this particular BART train. The passengers were clearly more concerned for the cop than for the man.

We do not see what happens for the 10 minutes prior to this particular incident. Was the man been harassing or even assaulting other passengers for the 20 minutes prior? Was this the cops first attempt to wrangle the man or his 5th? This clip picks up 10 seconds before the cop is dragging him out, and gauging the reaction of the other BART passengers I don't think they were particularly shocked at the cops actions. He didn't even slam the man that hard. The glass shattering served to embellish the effect the same way a check in hockey that shatters the glass always looks unbelievably violent even if the hit was routine.

While I agree that cops should not regularly slam people into walls, this is about the least offensive alleged "police brutality" incident I have ever seen. When you watch a video of real police brutality, witnesses don't ask the cops if they're okay and offer to call 9-1-1 for them....

[trumad]

69. I'll say it again...

If theman did not put his arm up before the slam...it would have been his face.

Do you agree with that---and if so---is that OK with you?

[AtheistCrusader]

84. I think it's fine.

Both that the drunk asshole put his arm up, and also that the cop tried to pin him to the wall.

This guy was on the train threatening people. He was beyond control, and I don't know if you've been on the receiving end of it before or not, but drunk people can go from passive to apeshit in a fraction of a second. It is perfectly normal for an officer to assert physical control of a suspect, and place that suspect between themselves and a solid object, to restrict movement and maintain control while handcuffs are applied.


Bad luck it happened to be a breakable surface, for both parties.

I think you're hyping this 'face slam' bullshit a little too much. I've never seen a police officer intentionally drill someone's head into a wall. Full body? Yeah. Face? No.

I don't see any problem at all with the officer asserting physical control over this suspect. None at all.

[imdjh]

76. How far was it from where 4 cops were murdered?

[Piewhacket]

111. Why is that important? Police officers are not authorized to act as vigilantes.

Police officers are creatures of the state,
wielding the power of the state,
not private citizens on a hopped-up crusade.

Those who don't understand that need to get
the F* out of LE before they end up in prison.
No joke.

[imdjh]

112. It isn't, it's a response to the stupidity in the post I was responding to.

[Piewhacket]

115. What if it wasn't stupidity... where are you then?

Its not stupid to point out BART police are
already under criticism because of the killing of
Oscar Grant by BART Officer Mehserly last January.
You'd think officer behavior would improve some.

Multiple acts of police misconduct is an indication
of corruption or incompetent management of its police
force by BART, warning signs of inadequate training,
inadequate supervision, negligent hiring, cover up,
and inadequate discipline of officers for serious
misconduct.

That is relevant to civil and criminal liability of both
officers and their superiors. It is relevant to OVERSIGHT
responsibility of citizens for the conduct of BART officials.

The fact that a few of these abuses are being
caught on video such that the BS and brazen lies don't
fly anymore... is a clue that these things have
gone on at other times and places, uncaught.

Here's another relevant fact for you. The officer here was with
the Contra Costa Sheriff's office for 6 years prior to being
hired by BART. Think about that a bit.

[imdjh]

117. You know what's amazing? Somehow I have lived 50 years without ever being manhandled by a cop.

In fact, I don't have any close friends or family who has been manhandled by a cop, and I do have some close friends and family who have been arrested. So why do you think that is? Could it be because we don't go out in public to be assholes to strangers? Could it be that we get arrested for really sophisticated stuff like DUI, drugs, or murder?

I get accused of being an apologist for the police. I'm not. In fact, when a cop is a real asshole ( You Tube : Cops Gone Wild ) I"m right there with the firing squad. But for the life of me I can't imagine why anyone would be a public apologist. The public is so heavily represented in human garbage that many people, myself included, choose to interact with the public as little as possible. Cops don't have that choice- they have to get out there and rub elbows with the hoi polloi, and come when we call them.

[Piewhacket]

118. Glad to hear it. But not everyone can hide from the world.

I'm not accusing you of being a 'cop apologist'.
I'm simply explaining the part you seem not clear on.

There is a difference between a cop being a real asshole
(they all are, and that's a fact) but still a cop,
and a cop being a scum-sucking criminal. There is a line.
And they know it, even if you may not.

A police officer is given considerable power by us,
including great leeway in exercising it, and as long as
he does so he is still a cop.

But any abuse of this authority is not only illegal
but in fact presents a grave threat to to our society.
We cannot abide it, we cannot allow it. Not even a little.

In particular here, an officer is authorized to use reasonable force
in effecting an arrest. Any unreasonable force or deliberate
abuse of a prisoner is not just unauthorized but is a crime.

Here the officer went from effecting a detention and
arrest to aggravated assault with intent to commit grievous
bodily harm, a very serious crime just below murder.
From cop to criminal in a moment.

This officer made a big mistake. He knows it. And he was caught.
If it is the first time, maybe he is counseled and disciplined,
if the second time, I say he cannot ever again wear a badge.

[imdjh]

75. Gibson had just offered to fight anyone on the train.

[trumad]

94. so?

He didn't offer to fight the cop.

[AtheistCrusader]

97. The cop doesn't give him the chance, or the option.

And he's fucking well not supposed to. Especially since he appears to be alone. No immediate backup.

[trumad]

100. Well then he should have shot him.

[AtheistCrusader]

101. So, you just have no intention of being serious about this issue I see.

That's fine. I'll just assume the whole thread was sarcasm on your part. Puts it in a different light.

[imdjh]

109. Now you're talking.

[imdjh]

108. SO you love him so much go pay his bail and give him hugs.

[Alcibiades]

48. He clearly intentionally slammed him into the glass

I'm sure he didn't expect it to break. He didn't slam him all that hard, though.

Probably will get a reprimand, but I doubt he'll be out of a job.

[Prism]

50. It seems to be an accident

I've been at that BART station very recently. Honestly, I would not have expected that glass to shatter. I don't think the cop expected it to shatter either.

Without the dramatics of shattered glass and blood, the question becomes whether or not it would have been excessive force if it were a wall rather than a window. Eh, probably not. The local media have been dissecting this story non-stop. The people on the train who called the police said they were frightened, and that the alleged perpetrator had been vigorously threatening passengers. The cop came on and yoinked him right off.

So you have potentially drunk, apparently unstable, threatening man on a train and frightened passengers. Subduing him doesn't seem excessive to me. If it weren't for the glass breaking, we'd probably not even be discussing this today.

[NorCalDem]

51. No, that's not excessive force.

Nothing to see here, move along folks.

[trumad]

58. No thanks...

If that was a wall instead of glass...and the guy didn't get his hand up in time to stop hitting that wall... it would have been his face.

Correct?

And you're OK with that?

[NorCalDem]

61. ...

"If that was a wall instead of glass...and (if)the guy didn't get his hand up in time to stop hitting that wall... it would have been his face."

And had that been a wall full of spikes and angry killer bees, the whole station would have been killed! Thankfully that's not what happened.

[trumad]

66. OK--- I say glass is just as dangerous...

He slammed the guy against the glass...didn't he?

[California Griz]

59. I can't believe this BS

You can't hardly go 10 feet without running into some solid wall at a BART station. Any cop showing this level of poor judgment should be fired. It's fortunate no one was more seriously hurt. Putting someone through a window is excessive force considering the violation the man was guilty of was a misdemeanor. This could have caused a mortal wound. Not to mention the needless damage of public property. Had this been a regular citizen they would be charged with multiple crimes. The proper procedure would have been to take him down to the ground immediately to protect himself and ensure the man would not injure anyone else.

[NorCalDem]

62. It's not BS...

I have never watched a video of real police brutality wherein all the witnesses are asking the cop if he is okay, calling 9-1-1 for him, coming out to help, etc. When you see a real beating on video, everyone else is usually running, screaming, or getting held back by other officers.

As I said above, we do not know what happened prior to this incident. All-in-all it was very minor and I'm sure the cop will take some heat for it (as he should), but this is the least severe "police brutality" video I have ever seen..

[wowimthere]

88. the cop should take some heat. The drunk obviously does not no better but

the police should. We don't have to be there. Drunks talk. The action is this... the police escorted him off of the train. If you could safely get him off of the train you could safely put him down. Remember... you do no harm first.

[AtheistCrusader]

91. I think you have him confused with a doctor.

The police very well may harm you if you present a danger to others, to the officer, or even to yourself, as odd as that may sound.

[wowimthere]

96. Did you see the cop escort the man off of the train? This is bizarre. He got him off of the train

safely. Safely. He had the power to subdue him... safely.

[AtheistCrusader]

98. And if he'd taken the suspect to the ground, and split his head open on the concrete, what would you

say then?

[Piewhacket]

63. If the question is whether it was deliberate? It clearly was.

The BART officer was intentionally trying to slam the mans head into the wall,
to subdue and punish him (just like he's been taught). It was a controlled
use of force, but clearly and assuredly illegal.
I'll bet he's done it many times before. A head slam.

He was focused on the head slam, of controlling his victim for it,
and any nearby solid obstruction would do. What went wrong
was that the nearest obstruction was glass, which unexpectedly shattered.
But none of that makes anything an "accident".

If the man had his throat cut from broken glass... we would be discussing
the degree of homicide which was appropriate to charge this officer.
The officer is goddamn lucky. Mehserly is heading for a murder trial in LA.

[drexel dave]

67. That wasn't intentional

The officer himself got cut.

He was doing his job, protecting the public from a disorderly drunk asshole.

I usually blow my top at this stuff, but this one isn't going anywhere.

[trumad]

70. If it wasn't intentional then what was it?

He grabbed the compliant man---led him hard across the aisle, and then slammed him against the glass.

It's a good thing the Man put his arm up before his face hit the glass.

[AtheistCrusader]

78. Compliant?

You have a funny way with words.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

74. The cop gives him an extra toss with his right arm at the end.

It's OBVIOUS to anyone with a working set of eyes.

The cop had control of that suspect and ran him in to the glass at a speed unsafe for both the suspect AND the officer. The officer has that suspect in his control and is responsible for his safety - you know, like NOT running him face-first in to glass.

I think it's obvious to anyone that the cop exerted an extra amount of force in the last step in an attempt to toss the guy face-first against the glass. This is run of the mill excessive force that would go unmentioned if the glass didn't break.

[lebkuchen]

80. What will the cop do next?

Stick a broom handle up the susect's anus?

BTW, it's still not clear to me from the video what the suspect did. Not pay for a ticket? And for this he gets his head smashed agsint a Window?

The Bay Area used to be one of the last places I would visit in the US. I'm about to mark it off my list and simply never return.

[lebkuchen]

79. SF and Alameda Counties need to have a Powwow

That police behavior is unacceptable in either county, and from what I read from abroad, it gets worse by the month.

[wowimthere]

81. This is a no brainer for those who refuse to see this as ego-driven injustice...

Police are there to calm down havoc... not create it. The police took this drunk man by the arm and led him off of the train. The man did not resist. There was no reason to even shove him into the glass. This was malicious. Being drunk does not mean you deserve to be harmed.

Think about this. Police are there to serve up justice in a prudent way. They are the ones we look to for good judgment. If a civilian had done this to another civilian someone would be going to jail. Some of you who think that this police was within his rights to ram someone into a glass window have lost your minds (perhaps this is how you look at justice after the last 8 years). There is nothing "just" about this act. This is authority run amok. Did any of you see Oscar Grant's murder?

Slamming someone into a glass window because you have a badge does not make it right. There was drunkenness, disorder. There was no resisting arrest. There was no just or probable cause to injure the man before subduing him. Some of you need a heavy dose of "good" common sense or maybe glasses.

[cognoscere]

83. How do you know the man didn't resist?

Were you there so you could feel what the officer might have felt, namely, the man trying to get free? No, I didn't think so. Have you ever dealt with drunks? They are irrational, unreasonable, and usually are feeling no pain (literally and figuratively) The police use what is called "the progression of force" It starts with an attempt to verbally persuade. Next is manual escort. If that doesn't work, pain compliance follows. If that fails, impact weapons are allowed. If everything really goes to hell, deadly force is the last resort.

So let's see what appears to have happened. The officer tried to persuade him; he tried to manually escort him; he might have tried pain compliance with a come-a-long (finger or arm lock, etc.) It looks like he might have had some success with that and was simply trying to get the guy's hands up against the wall. They do that, and spread their legs back behind them because a lot of times, when the first cuff goes on, the person goes a little nuts and really resists. If you have "assumed the position" the officer merely has to kick out one of your legs and you fall down.

I personally think brutal cops should be thrown into the general population at the nearest prison with a big "ex-cop" sign on their backs. In this instance, it looks like an accident,i.e. cops usually don't do things to get themselves cut up.

Here's an idea: Why don't all you who are jumping all over the cops enroll in what is called The Civilian Police Academy? You'll get to learn what cops do, how and why they do it, and the ride along will definitely open your eyes to what they have to put up with.

Until then, maybe pray to St. Fu.

[wowimthere]

85. I looked at the video... the drunk man was escorted off of the train...

You don't need to be a civilian police to determine that if the cop wanted to yank him to the ground by the cuffs, this drunk man would have gone down. We've all seen this kind of behavior before. Testosterone gets in the way of making sound good sound judgment. You do no harm first. That's the job of the police officer.

Your argument about me being there is the same suspicious rationale that police superintendent's use. The video is clear cut. He is being walked off of the train by the police officer. You don't see him pull back or yank. He may be drunk and yes I've seen many of those. Many don't get their bodies rammed into a glass window. I've seen people who were unruly be arrested in less severe ways. An overwhelming amount of people look at this tape and see excessive. You are trying to get into everyone's head... the policeman... the drunk man... and you don't have to. Watch the man being escorted off of the train. That's the key. If an officer can get him off of the train, he can place him on the ground. I've seen it. The officer got the man off of the train with his hand and the drunk went willingly. You should stop over-analyzing here and let your eyes be your guide.

[imdjh]

87. It wasn't a window and it probably shouldn't have broken under these circumstances.

[wowimthere]

89. the window is beside the point. The police's actions are on trial here.

[imdjh]

92. Actually, it isn't. The accusation is that a cop deliberately or indifferently put the asshole's ...

.... head through a dead light. A reasonable person would not expect a public transit system to use sheet window glass in that application, and the officer had no reason to think that the dead light would break.

[trumad]

93. Yep...

It's so obvious and many here just don't want to admit the truth.

[AtheistCrusader]

95. Forget the window.

The window is immaterial. There are two options for the officer: Wall or Ground. Both present risks of injury to the suspect. The officer's attention is focused on the suspect. He's not analyzing the wall for potential dangers. He's not pondering in his mind: plate glass, safety glass, or polymer.

Just two things: Wall or Ground. He chose Wall. Bad luck for him.

Putting someone against a wall allows for 'nicer' options, like holding with an arm-bar or other hold that doesn't crush the suspect with the officer's body weight while getting cuffs on. It's easier to frisk. It can prevent a SERIOUS head injury. Falling from standing height, onto concrete can kill you, if your head hits the ground wrong.

Then there's department policy. I don't know it, do you? Has it been adjusted in response to the Scott Bell shooting? Perhaps department policy now demands standing search/compliance measures, instead of tackles, in response to what happened to Bell? Awful lot of things you don't know here, things that this one video from one vantage point doesn't make clear, don't you think?

[imdjh]

113. Scott Bell?

[AtheistCrusader]

116. Whoops, Oscar Grant.

Bell was a totally different incident.

[fascisthunter]

82. that cop was out of line

what an idiotic thing to do...


I'm sure anonymous low-posters will now tell me it was an accident or that the drunk guy deserved it. If so, then why don't cops slam other's faces into glass? BECAUSE ITS FUCKING WRONG!

[imdjh]

86. Clearly, between the two the cop is the psycho.

[wowimthere]

90. I stand by my assessment. This is a no brainer. If cop can escort drunken individual off train

SAFELY... then he could subdue him SAFELY less the violent histrionics.

[Supply Side Jesus]

102. Not Resisting?

Even after after the glass smash, the drunk positioned his arm on the wall to prevent the take down. The drunk might have been pushing back against the cop as he was being pushed out. No idea how the drunk was acting before he was escorted off. Threats? Weapons? Spitting? Pushing? The video doesn't show the entire incident, so to pass judgment without seeing it all is irresponsible.
What surprises me is how easily that glass broke. It didn't shatter for safety, it broke with shards and all. Hopefully the windows are replaced before someone trips into it or another accident. The officer was also injured by the broken glass.

[harvey007]

105. A few thoughts

The BART cop was responding to calls for help.

Passengers were being assaulted and threatened by the drunken man.

The BART cop received lacerations and a concussion. The drunk was also injured.

It is a good idea to wait until the investigation is over to decide if excessive force was used or if the drunken man's own behavior contributed to the accident.

In the meantime, BART riders should empower themselves to deal directly with threats from drunken and disorderly passengers.

You can't always count on the cops to protect you.

http://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2009/news20091122.aspx

[imdjh]

110. Passengers should have tossed him on the tracks.