Kay Hagan Responds Like A Trooper!

[dirktalamasca]

Run time: 00:32 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k76tRXq0ZC0   Posted on YouTube: October 30, 2008 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: October 30, 2008 By DU Member: dirktalamasca Views on DU: 6741

 
You go, Kay! You go!!

[AndyA]

1. Take that, Liddy Dole!

What a lying sack of crap carpetbagger Dole is!

[Idealism]

2. Nice.

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it Liddy!

[Kerrytravelers]

3. Ouch. That is gonna leave a mark!

Good. :evilgrin:

[dirktalamasca]

4. Support for Kay

If you'd like to donate to help Kay win, you can do so here http://www.actblue.com/page/kayhaganrules

[David__77]

5. Sen. Hagan.

Sounds good. That wench Dole is worthless to anyone.

[Faith No More]

6. Dole, you're a washed up, useless old hag, get your fat ass the hell off my TV ! ! ! ! !

[Politicalboi]

7. That's straight to the point

Liddy is desperate. All Pubes are desperate. Looks like Ted is going to lose Alaska. New poll shows Mark Begich leading by 8 points.
NO! LOL!

[PDJane]

8. I hate a political campaign that hinges on religion.

That's simply not one of the criteria that a sane person uses to determine the best person to run the country.

[Labors of Hercules]

36. North Carolina is just unbuckling itself from the bible belt

It's a painful process, but it is happening. We're just not there yet.

[Cha]

42. I can see it happening though.

:bounce:

[margotb822]

47. I feel the same way

This whole thing has made me queasy. Freedom of Religion, anyone?

[Spiffarino]

51. Yeah, but it's what we're left with

Dole attacked what she thought might be a weak spot for Hagan, and in a style for which Jesse Helms was famous. She was banking on shock value. Apparently Liddy hasn't figured out that North Carolina voters are on to them and we aren't buying it any more.

Religion is still a very strong motivator in this state, and it's no surprise that a GOPer with her back to the wall would unleash it. What is surprising is the media backlash this artless, unfair attack has created. Instead of moving Dole closer to victory, it appears to be destroying what was left of her chances.

My advice to Dole? More of the same!

[bonnieS]

64. I am not a happy camper

I am not a Christian. Apparently, I therefore do not deserve representation. It would have been nice if Hagen had gently thrown in that in this country it should not matter, separation of Church and State, and all that. It would be nice if a few "Christian leaders" actually led us out of the theocracy we are illegally becoming.

Better Hagen than Dole, but both of them are basing their message on how religious/Christian they are. Powell said a Muslim child should be able to dream of being President, and my children should, too.

[Plucketeer]

72. I'm with you!

It's amazing and aggravating that as non-believers, we're basically allowed to go along for the ride. :grr:

[quidam56]

9. Bitch Slap !

http://www.wisecountyissues.com

[BAPhill]

26. I second that bitch slap!

SMACK!

:spank:

[NJCPA]

77. And it's worse when its the truth. n/t

[Creationismsucks]

10. Sigh...

I'm glad she's fighting back against Dole's attacks, but man, I look forward to a day when people don't regard "agnostic" or "atheist" as epithets. A very large part of the population doesn't belive in any particular deity. She kind of just grabbed the mcrophone back and said "I'm not an atheist; I'm a decent family person."

I understand why she did it, and in these circumstances I think her decision to respond this way is defensible and the best strategy. I just long for a day when being called an "atheist" isn't a slag.

[The Doctor.]

12. I look forward to the day that people stop electing

lying sacks of shit to office.

[madhawk]

14. pagen

i agree! actually i am pagen.
hawk

[JimboBillyBubbaBob]

17. Hagan

I agree totally with your position and statement. Well said, congratulations.

[Stryguy]

18. agreed.. AND..

I don't need the bible to tell me to not bare false witness against my fellow human beings..

[dirktalamasca]

19. I agree with you on all counts

As you stated, this is the best possible course for her to respond given the circumstances.

[Jack Rabbit]

22. One early feature of this election year was using "Muslim" as an epthet

One's faith (including the faith that there is no God) is never an epithet. It's one's own business.

I believe in God, but not one who damns any one to Hell for going to the "wrong" church.

[Quixote1818]

34. What is funny was John Adams attacked Thomas Jefferson for being an atheist

and he was probably right. At least in those days people were actually less religious than now.

[elleng]

44. I wouldn't say 'less religious;'

they were VERY THOUGHTFUL. I adopted some of their 'beliefs' a long time ago!

'In the United States, Enlightenment philosophy (which itself was heavily inspired by deist ideals) played a major role in creating the principle of separation of church and state, expressed in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. Founding Fathers who were especially noted for being influenced by such philosophy include Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Cornelius Harnett, Gouverneur Morris, and Hugh Williamson. Their political speeches show distinct deistic influence. Other notable Founding Fathers may have been more directly deist. These include James Madison, John Adams, possibly Alexander Hamilton, Ethan Allen <32> and Thomas Paine (who published The Age of Reason, a treatise that helped to popularize deism throughout America and Europe). Elihu Palmer (1764-1806) wrote the "Bible" of American deism in his Principles of Nature (1801) and attempted to organize deism by forming the "Deistical Society of New York."'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism

[Tat]

57. Having read a number Jefferson documents...

I wouldn't think so. There were some atheists at the time but Jefferson was not one. He was a deist and considered himself a Christian ("in the only way it was ever meant") which was more a reverence for Jesus than anything approaching modern Christian theology. He was spoke of atheism in a few of his letters and he gave an exceedingly valid criticism and explained in a very thoughtful way he could never count himself among their ranks (oddly enough his objections have since been answered by science in the last few hundred years) but at the time a thoughtful deism was generally the end point for a functional epistemology and Jefferson was exceedingly thoughtful.

In those days people were more Anglican and religion was simply done. However, if you asked for a rendering of their belief in God you would find nearly no doubters outside of France. Today you regularly meet non-believers and even many individuals who accept the atheist label.

[iiibbb]

71. "Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more...

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson

[DUlover2909]

55. I agree with you that religion shouldn't matter, but calling her out for lying is A-OK.

[Tat]

56. Yeah, understandable but still a sort of face slap.

There is clearly no point in her pointing out that atheism isn't the boogieman but a rather noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious beliefs. Politics doesn't do nuance very well and shouting back "I'm not a vile atheist, I'm a Christian!" is politically her best choice but I can't help thinking that it's very white of Ms. Hagen to shout back in such a way.

[OswegoAtheist]

74. Hear hear!

I've long become immune to the use of atheism as a derogative, but only because it's become so persistent in this supposedly "free" country.

Oswego "Goddamn, I'm proud as hell to be an" Atheist

[FatDave]

11. Smackdown!

[bjobotts]

13. Why is beinga "Christian" important. Bush is a Christian.Good moral values don't depend on religion.

[MiniMe]

15. To me, it isn't about being Christian, it is about Dole lying and faking her voice.

[ecstatic]

23. Exactly! And Dole deserved to be smacked down nt

[relayerbob]

32. Yep, and she kicked some serious ass

[mhatrw]

16. She should have reminded Dole that it's a sin to use the Lord's name in vain. n/t

[ljm2002]

20. That was just great!

You go girl, I hope you hand Ms. Dole her walking papers!!!

[Libertyfirst]

21. That earns Hagan another check from me.

I don't think religion should matter in politics, but in does in North Carolina and I like a fighter. We need Hagan in the senate.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jberryhill]

25. Wow /nt

[volstork]

27. "false witness"

What an EXCELLENT smackdown!

[RBInMaine]

28. GOOD ! Hey Dems, that's how you DO IT ! Respond then COUNTERPUNCH ! She exposed Dole as a LIAR !!!

[AzNick]

29. I hate saying this but "You go, girl!" (I say it once a year, this was it)

[stevedeshazer]

30. Strong. Recommended.

[Mad_Dem_X]

31. BAM!

Perfect!

[barack the house]

33. Hagan is going to kick some behind. Love her !!! wooohoo.

:woohoo:

[FLAprogressive]

35. "false witness": pwned. nt

[Hekate]

37. Kay Hagen's response was absolutely on-target. She was genuinely outraged & let it show...

Kay Hagen threw the religious charges right back in Dole's face without a moment's hesitation: "You shouldn't bear false witness against a fellow Christian."

Of course, that leaves all the other issues about religion in government still pending, but that was not what was called for in this instance.

Elizabeth Dole should hang her head in shame.

Hekate

[RedSpartan]

38. Now THAT'S a smackdown!

[nadine_mn]

39. Ok but what if she didn't believe in God... what then?

What if Obama was a Muslim, what if Hagan was Buddhist.... only Christians can be in office?? I remember well the kerfuffle when Keith Ellison was elected into office and used Thomas Jefferson's Koran when sworn in.

Ms. Hagan has a right to say that the attacks were inflammatory (esp making it look like Hagan was saying she was godless) but then to have to "prove" her christianity??

[Sam Ervin jret]

43. If she lied it's still relevant. As Dole professes to be a Christian she is to be held to

account for the breaking of her commandment not to lie and bear false witness. The commandment does not say, "do not bear false witness (unless it's a person of no faith or another faith you're trespassing against.)" I feel one of the most important and effective weapons to use against right wing "born agains" who show little understanding of the philosophy and teachings of Jesus Christ is the knowledge of those very teachings and the comparison of them to the hypocritical un-Christ-like behavior manifested in most right wing politics.

But your point of bias against any non Christian in this country running for office is fair and regrettable. And down right Unchristian.

[Cha]

40. Kay Hagan's a Fighter!

Watch out libby.

[MirrorAshes]

41. This is SO good. You're attacking the faith of a Sunday School teacher?

I mean, really?

I hope she goes down in flames with this ad. And allowing Hagan an opportunity to establish herself as a fighter and catapult her ahead with an extra degree of gravitas.

Thanks Liddy! Nice work!

[mackerel]

45. I'm seriously shocked! Can someone find and post the link

for the commercial the Dole campaign ran?

[mnhtnbb]

66. Here's the link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMzX_EAfwyc

[Kalifornia.Kid]

46. Hagan slapped Dole with the Ninth Commandment ...

"Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness" (Lie)

[BeyondGeography]

48. Righteous

K&R

[Stevie_66]

49. We don't want Dole back in Kansas

when she loses.

GO KAY HAGAN (even though I am not a Christian, and it's "Bear false witness against thy neighbor", and was written pre-Jesus. But still-good, strong ad.

We want to retire in TN or NC. If NC goes blue, that's another plus for that state!

[democracy1st]

50. K & R

[Timebound]

52. Kay Hagan is my Hero

I am so proud to have cast a vote for her yesterday. :)

[donheld]

53. Whoooohooooo

[DUlover2909]

54. SLAM!

O8)

[no_hypocrisy]

58. Welcome to DU. Nice job!

[dirktalamasca]

67. no_hypocrisy

Thanks! Happy to be here!

[spelldmilk]

59. Wow, that is a great response. It is such a shame

that it had to be made, though. How is it that Palin's really disturbing fundamentalist religion, and her association with a scessionist group seems to mean nothing, yet a woman who was a Sunday school teacher has to defend her belief in God? This is just crazy.

[VaYallaDawg]

60. Shame on you Sugar Lips Dole!! n/t

[dmallind]

61. Some people are missing a key point here.

Candidate A issues an attack ad because candidate B associates with atheists (yes I know the implication is that candidate B agrees with them).

Candidate B responds with a lawsuit for defamation of character and slander and a hurt, angry rebuttal.


Now I'm not in NC but I know atheists who are. How exactly does that inspire them to vote for EITHER? One thinks we should not even be spoken to, and one thinks an accusation of talking to us and gasp even an implication that she might agree with us a grievous and actionable insult.

Is there ANY other group who would be used like this, or who would be - yes I have to say it - thrown under the bus with such distaste as if we were dogshit unluckily still remaining on the sole during a state dinner in response?

Imagine if a response to an ad saying "so and so takes gay money" or "so and so takes Jewish money" with "what does she promise in return?" was "that's horrible and slanderous and I'm going to sue you"?

Think about it.

I'm an insensitive type and not easily offended but this demonstrates how far we really have to come - and we including Democrats - to get out of teh Dark Ages.

On a website where the use of the word "Man" applied to an androgynous and reviled woman can be seen as a grievous insult to transpeople worthy of 200-rec threads, nobody seems to be raising the point that Hagan feels an accusation of even wanting to help atheists is an actionable slander, and most are supporting her for saying so.

[VaYallaDawg]

63. I think you're missing the point.

The real issue is that Elizabeth Dole has chosen to advertise a lie about Kay Hagen - over a point that she knew was a complete lie. The fact that it had to do with religion is, IMO, secondary.

She could have called her a lesbian - and IMO (and the important part about that is the MY OPINION part) - the issue would still be that she has slandered her openly with a lie - not that being a lesbian would make Ms. Hagen any less (or more) qualified to serve in public office.

[dmallind]

68. No - I get that. The reaction however is telling.

All kinds of claims in political ads are lies. Hagan wants to raise taxes on the middle class, kill jobs, seek defeat in Iraq. Yadda yadda yadda.

THIS ad is technically not even a lie. Hagan met with atheists and took their money. The "there is no God" at the end is spoken by Ellen Johnson not Hagan. The IMPLICATION that Hagan said it, or even agrees with it, is perhaps not true.

But even if this had been a bold faced lie "Kay Hagan thinks there is no god" in big letters, it would be no different in nature from lies listed above said every day during the campaign.

But her reaction WAS different. The outrage, the legal challenge, the vicious specififc retort, were addressed only to THIS "lie". The outright lack of even vague defense of atheists as equal citizens who deserve equal respect and access to government is telling. You would NOT absolutely NEVER have seen a response to an accusation of a Democrat of baing gay or Jewish or whatever that lacked at least SOME "there's nothing wrong with that" component. Here it is completely absent - atheists are only and always an unforgivable insult and no more.

Your point about being a lesbian may be true. But again if it were leveled at a candidate in error Du would be in outrage for days with dozens of top threads whining about being gay being used as an insult. This? Nothing. Slective outrage and inclusion even at DU. There's a reason we have several known gay nationally elected officials and NO knownatheist nationally elected officials (Pete Stark only "came out" this cycle.)

[riverdale]

76. Wolf asks if it's okay to associate with atheists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4zRnr2FOCc

It is infuriating as an atheist to be slammed from all sides in politics. The clown Donna Brazile makes it clear in this video that atheists are not welcome in her party. Donna makes a ridiculous comment about there being "strong evidence" of the existence of gods. Really? Strong evidence. That would be comical, if it weren't accepted as conventional wisdom.

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mnhtnbb]

65. Kay Hagan has filed a lawsuit against Dole in NC

http://news14.com/content/top_stories/600982/hagan-sues-dole-over--godless--ad/Default.aspx

[urbanaddictiondotcom]

69. Time to Let It Go Elizabeth Dole

Frankly, these so-called "Christians" act like war mongers and stoop to the lowest possible levels everytime. So what if Kay Hagen didn't believe in God. This is America right? It doesn't mean she wouldn't be a great civil servant.

[seafan]

70. Not surprised she is tough. Hagan is former Florida Governor Lawton Chiles' niece.

Dole's 'godless' ad riles Hagan


Kay Hagan

Lisa Zagaroli, The Charlotte Observer
October 30, 2008

U.S. Sen. Elizabeth Dole, clinging to her seat, aired a new political advertisement Wednesday suggesting her challenger is "godless," prompting threats of legal action by state Sen. Kay Hagan.

Dole, a Republican, is trying with the ad to shore up the traditional GOP constituency of evangelical Christians, a group that could be crucial to her re-election. The hard-fought, multimillion-dollar battle between Dole and Hagan could determine whether Democrats have a veto-proof majority in the U.S. Senate.

Hagan, a Democrat who teaches Sunday school and is an elder at her Presbyterian church in Greensboro, said she was furious about the television ad. The spot ends with an image of Hagan and the voice of a woman -- not her -- saying "there is no God."

"Elizabeth Dole is attacking my strong Christian faith," Hagan said in a conference call with reporters, adding that Dole should be "ashamed" of herself.

.....

The old he-coon is smiling from up there somewhere.



Former Florida Governor Lawton Chiles (...or "He who sent Jeb Bush packing")

[dugaresa]

73. it is sad that she has to reply at all ...the mere fact that someone's "religious brand" is

important is sad.

It is your actions, not your proclamations that matter.

I also am reminded of

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich." - Napoleon

Ah that good ole time religion...a tool of the wealthy to convince the poor to accept their lot in life and pray for something better when they are dead...if anything the folks that dreamed up organized religion are the master strategists.

[NastyDiaper]

75. And that's why Republicans should not vote early. nt

[colsohlibgal]

78. Love Me Some Kay Hagan!

Good for her - another democrat who says no, not this time, enough, you lie and slander, I'll come back hard.

Republicans are so panicked many are showing their true colors as gutter dwellers.