WHY is it so difficult for people to see they need to buy American?

[davsand]

Sorry, I just had to come in here and vent. I'm probably gonna have a few folks jump my rump over in LBN for my post about driving American made cars, but I just fail to understand how a group of folks who can manage to dislike Walmart can't manage to see that buying a car made by a company with a UAW contract is a good thing. (Holy cow, that was one long sentence! I am sorry, gang!)

What does it take to hammer home that unified support for American workers is the only hope ANY of us has of a decent future?

Sorry, rant off. I'll return to my usual grumbling in the background now...


Laura

[demosincebirth]

1. I agree, every car that I have ever bought has been American made.

I see many on DU slamming WAlmart, and in the same breath say that they just love their new Toyota or Nissan.
I don't know of any foreign name car, manufactured here, that is union made.

BUY AMERICAN-BE AMERICAN!

[China_cat]

4. We have a Nissan

that was made in Tennessee.

[DainBramaged]

5. A NISSAN IS A JAPANESE CAR, NOT AN AMERICAN CAR

Jesus doesn't anyone get it? The Japanese will NOT repeat NOT allow us to build assembly plants in Japan. ALL OF THE FUCKING MONEY GOES BACK TO THE BANK OF JAPAN. Go to the precious Tennessee manufacturing plant and go to the nearest town or city. I will bet you there is a Bank of Japan branch there.


Go ahead, make a Union family homeless, buy foreign.

[China_cat]

7. I AM a union family

The workers in that Tennessee plant are American workers and the money they earned putting it together stayed in Tennessee paying rent, buying food and clothes and putting American children through school.

Just as your supposed 'American' car was assembled in Detroit...with parts from Mexico, China and Japan (or even possibly Korea). There is no such thing as a purely 'American' car any more. The best you can hope for is that American labor put it together.

Hell, even the steel for the shell is no longer made in America.

[DainBramaged]

12. Union doesn't support foreign, not in my town, sorry

It must suck to have to compromise your integrity for a few dollars.

Oh, lest I forget to ask, what union? It certainly doesn't work for any of the Asian big 3.

[China_cat]

17. OPEIU Local 73

And it wasn't for a few dollars. We made the best decision we could considering the need to carry 3 big dogs, my mobility scooter, my wheelchair and us and that was dependable. The original price (we bought it used) went to pay salaries to AMERICAN workers.

I'm sure you probably would have nothing to say if I'd said we'd bought a Beemer, made here in SC, would you?

Your car, although an 'American' brand, I'm sure (yeah, right!), is no more American than our Nissan. The steel for the body, the engine parts, down to the nuts, bolts and paint...not to mention the robots and machinery used to put it together...are all foreign made and shipped here to be assembled. There is no such thing as a truly American car anymore unless you're driving one that's at least 40 years old.

[DainBramaged]

21. Office and Professional workers

NO ASSEMBLY LINE! REPEAT NO ASSEMBLY LINE.

Hell, Carpal tunnel is more dangerous than a rotary welder, don't ya think?:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

You all keep lecturing me on Domestic content. One, I have a degree in marketing, and two have worked in and out of the auto industry for nearly 35 years. From and oil and tire rep to a polish and wash rep, to consultant to System administrator. But in the end, Domestic content doesn't mean shit to a tree until we can build Domestic brands in Japan, Korea, and China, not just right hand drive models with 50% tariffs on them.

Enjoy your rice burners. Make a real Union worker homeless and end the trade that built this country. Keep eating up the propaganda.

Japanese is American but American isn't Japanese.

[bperci108]

40. What a "union man".

:puke:


He attacks other union members, disparages any future members and likely discourages them from ever joining with his venom and misanthropy.

The best friend an anti-union boss could have. :(

[demosincebirth]

47. You got three hard core unionmen here.

I guess you really don't know what true unionism is about. Just saying you belong to a union doesn't make you a good unionman.

[bperci108]

49. Really?

What do you believe it's about?

Grabbing all you can for yourself?

Belittling members of another union because in your estimation they don't have a "real job"?

Playing into the "divide and conquer" strategy that has nearly destryed the American Labor movement?



Or is it about real working class solidarity?




"Just saying you belong to a union doesn't make you a good unionman."

My point exactly. ;)

Some people actually "get it" and see the bigger picture; some just have the card that says they belong to The Club.

[demosincebirth]

50. Furthering the cause of Organized Labor. That our goal.

Buying union made products, if possible, is the # 1 duty of a union member. Also, doing everything possible make sure that every worker in the country has the right to join a union and make a better life for himself/herself
I would think you would know that if you ever took an Oath when joining a union.

[bperci108]

51. Well....I'll be....

...I guess we're on the same page.

"Buying union made products, if possible, is the # 1 duty of a union member."

Absolutely.

But also recognize that this is getting more and more impossible every day.




"Also, doing everything possible make sure that every worker in the country has the right to join a union and make a better life for himself/herself"

Again, absolutely.

You're preaching to the choir here.... :)

What prompted my above response was BrainDamaged's behavior toward others here. Being an insufferable prick while "talking union" doesn't do any good for the cause, rather it's infinitely destructive, especially when such stupidity is directed toward someone who isn't a union member yet. Condescension, divisiveness and juvenile behavior doesn't further the cause, rather it drags it backward.



"I would think you would know that if you ever took an Oath when joining a union."

No, no oath here.

Other than agreeing with this, that is:

"The working class and the employing class have nothing in common. There can be no peace so long as hunger and want are found among millions of the working people and the few, who make up the employing class, have all the good things of life.

Between these two classes a struggle must go on until the workers of the world organize as a class, take possession of the means of production, abolish the wage system, and live in harmony with the Earth.

We find that the centering of the management of industries into fewer and fewer hands makes the trade unions unable to cope with the ever growing power of the employing class. The trade unions foster a state of affairs which allows one set of workers to be pitted against another set of workers in the same industry, thereby helping defeat one another in wage wars. Moreover, the trade unions aid the employing class to mislead the workers into the belief that the working class have interests in common with their employers.

These conditions can be changed and the interest of the working class upheld only by an organization formed in such a way that all its members in any one industry, or in all industries if necessary, cease work whenever a strike or lockout is on in any department thereof, thus making an injury to one an injury to all.

Instead of the conservative motto, "A fair day's wage for a fair day's work," we must inscribe on our banner the revolutionary watchword, "Abolition of the wage system."

It is the historic mission of the working class to do away with capitalism. The army of production must be organized, not only for everyday struggle with capitalists, but also to carry on production when capitalism shall have been overthrown. By organizing industrially we are forming the structure of the new society within the shell of the old."

;)

[demosincebirth]

52. We don't want to do away with Capitalism, only to

make it more responsive to the needs of the working class through collective bargaining agreements.

[bperci108]

53. I've been there.

Perhaps one day you will come to the same conclusion that I did:

Capitalism cannot be reformed.

No matter, until then - Solidarity Forever! :)

[Boojatta]

61. Aren't there any unions in Japan?

"Buying union made products, if possible, is the # 1 duty of a union member."

Suppose an American union member buys an automobile made in Germany. Is the union member fulfilling his or her duty?

[demosincebirth]

45. You're testing their loyalties, Dain.

[bperci108]

9. Your anger is misdirected.

"Go ahead, make a Union family homeless, buy foreign."

Attacking your fellow workers just plays into the hands of the ruling class.

While you fight for scraps with your fellows, the Bosses have picked your pocket, stolen your labor and looted your nation.

It's time to wise up.

[DainBramaged]

11. Make an AMERICAN worker homeless, buy rice

MY fellow workers ARE Union workers. Picked opur pockets my ass. Sorry, you can try your Rethug back-handed compliment elsewhere. The Congress and anti-union mis-Administration has given rise to the robber baron class again. Don't blame the worker.

How dare you? We're not in Kansas anymore, even though you may be.

[bperci108]

13. WTF?

"MY fellow workers ARE Union workers."

So is the person you attacked, claiming you were "gonna be homeless".

Your fellow workers are everyone who works for a living with their hands or their mind!

If you think every worker who isn't a member of your union or any union is the enemy, then you are part of the problem; you are working for the Bosses whether you know it or not.

"Divide and conquer" has worked well for the ruling class. Don't play their game.


"Picked opur pockets my ass."

Wages have shrunk for most all workers since the late 90's. Where is that money going?

Right into the pockets of the "ownership society".

So yes, YOUR pocket.


"Sorry, you can try your Rethug back-handed compliment elsewhere."

It wasn't a compliment.

And if you think I'm a "rethug", your nickname fits you quite well. :crazy:


"The Congress and anti-union mis-Administration has given rise to the robber baron class again."

And many of the trade union leaders selling their members out and compromising with the bosses has sped that along.

Concessions, "no-strike" clauses...you know the drill.

"How dare you?"

I'll dare to try and show the reality you either can't see or don't want to see. I'm not your enemy, DB.

Like I said above: Your anger is misplaced. Direct it where it belongs. Step back and look up 15 degrees - see who is pulling the strings. ;)

[DainBramaged]

14. Nice try, no Union card, not a union member. Divide and conquer

the mantra of the Rethug class. Sorry, right to work doesn't mean right to Union, period.

Goodnight.

[bperci108]

16. I'm truly sorry to see that you want to help the Bosses....

...instead of your fellow workers: your brothers and sisters.

While you play your "social club" games and call it a "union", we'll keep organizing, soapboxing and agitating for the One Big Union.

Hope it works out well for you. :hi:

[DainBramaged]

19. Another non-union shill (bye, have a nice life)

My brothers and sisters my ass. I have two words (other than ignore list) and they aren't Merry Xmas.

[bperci108]

39. That's the funniest thing I've heard all week.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Thanks for the laugh Brain Damaged. :hi:

Take care. :)

[Omaha Steve]

2. some imports are made here

http://www.uaw.org/uawmade/auto/2006/index.cfm

Rant all you want on this forum ANYTIME!

[bperci108]

3. And most of that "American" car...

...came from elsewhere. ;)

All of the big American car makers outsource extensively.

[DainBramaged]

6. Give us facts, not supposition

How much domestic content does a Toyota have? Go stand outside of their manufacturing plants and watch the train loads of containers from the port of Los Angles or Long beach full of Japanese and Chinese made parts streaming in. They refuse to buy american, but because the plant is on American soil, they get away with "Made in America".

[bperci108]

8. The facts are under the hood of my '97 Buick.

It's full of "Made in Mexico", etc. components. There's probably much more than I can identify, since not everything is so clearly marked.

I doubt that the number of outsourced parts has decreased in the years since it was built, wouldn't you agree?

You can remove the chip from your shoulder, pal: I agree with you. :eyes:

My point was that an American car isn't really "American" and hasn't been for years. The death of Delphi is just more proof of outsourcing killing our manufacturing base.

Until the policies of this government change as far as tariffs and tax breaks for sending jobs overseas, and the workers in these non-union factories wise up and organize into a real union, it isn't going to get any better.

Also, Detroit has been so mismanaged in the past few decades, turning out overpriced, badly designed, poorly made vehicles. And before you get your panties in a wad; it isn't the fault of the people that build them - they have to use what they are given. The fault lies with short-sighted management and a corporate culture that is risk-averse to the point of being paralyzed.

But all of this is rapidly becoming a moot point.

The world is rapidly changing and the age of the car as we know it is coming to a close. A friend of mine has an old Geo Metro he paid $1000 for several years ago. It just went from Kansas to Arkansas and back and got 43 MPG.

That's actual mileage, fully loaded with people and stuff, not a theoretical estimate on paper.

There isn't an "American" car (I believe the Metro was a joint venture between Suzuki and GM) made now that will even come close to that. Detroit has been churning out pickups and SUV's for the past ten years. With gas that will hit $5 per gallon before long, as Europe has been paying for years, Detroit has screwed the pooch yet again.

Their solution?

Layoff more workers, shut more plants, move more manufacturing overseas, etc.

Will the executives that created this situation get canned? No, they will likely get a promotion and a raise for increasing the stock price 5 cents per share.

That is what has to change.


:rant:

[DainBramaged]

10. OK, we just sell em. Sorry, write Detroit.

[DainBramaged]

15. One last question Union Haters

Why won't the Japanese and Koreans let us build auto manufacturing factories in their countries?

Chew on that.

[China_cat]

18. You know, your anger is very misplaced.

Because the unions have made a lot of mistakes and, unfortunately, missed opportunities to expand and really do some good.

First off, you can't stop an owner from sending his business wherever in the world he wants to...union or no. That's just the way it is in business. And when they decide to go, the jobs they take away are gone. No union is ever going to get them back. I'm sorry you don't like that but it's fact.

Unions missed the boat starting about 50 years ago when Japan started dumping cheap steel on the American market. Instead of modernizing plants and being more productive, congress was lobbied (by the unions also) to impose stiff tarriffs on that steel. But, by not modernizing, American production fell farther and farther behind until the manufacturing that was still going on in this country could not afford to wait the time it would take to get their orders or make do with the substandard product they were getting.

If the unions had been smart, they'd have laid off the lobbying and proposed a plan to help modernize and save their own livelihoods. But they weren't looking that far ahead. And now even Pittsburgh is clean because there's no steel left in the steel city. A conundrum because clear skies are nice except when you have to look at them out of the cardboard box you call home.

That's just one simple example. Once unions had made a safer workplace, one that paid a living wage, they should have put effort into making sure that their employment stayed where it was. Collective bargaining should not be one sided and it always has been...we ask for twice as much as we want, you end up giving us half as much as we ask for and everybody's happy. Until the business closes.

A real collective bargaining unit should have included "ok, if we pass up the 3% this year, it'll give you $xxxxx and we want to see it go into putting in pollution abatement (or training programs or new equipment, etc)" But those things were never included. And it wasn't just workers' salaries and benefits that have pushed business owners out of this country. It's also been the cost of equipment and environmental regulations and a host of other things that the unions COULD have helped with.

They didn't. So the jobs are down and the word union has become a dirty one in today's lexicon. And the unions can't bring back one single job that's been sent away. Period.

They can, if they will, help to make new ones. Work with the companies to protect both worker rights AND the jobs they would maintain and/or create. It won't be easy, make no mistake about that, but it won't happen at all with the level of anger you're spewing all over every one.

Just so you know, I come from a time and place where there were 2 rites of passage that were equally important...getting your driver's license and getting your union card. When being a pedophile would have been better than being a scab.

[DainBramaged]

20. Yada yada yada, no soup for you

Why lecture me, I'm not a Union leader. Call them and bitch.

:shrug: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[China_cat]

22. You're right, you're not.

You aren't even a good member of the rank and file. If you were, you'd be working for protection of workers AND jobs.

And you can look down your nose all you want at OPEIU members but we are still affiliated with the AFL-CIO and we handle the toughest contract in the country.

OPEIU represents several thousand NUNS. Try collective bargaining with THEIR boss.

[davsand]

24. I am also an OPEIU member.

Damn proud of it, too.

OPEIU represents some pretty diverse occupations. Take a look at some of the Guilds & Locals represented by OPEIU:

http://www.opeiu.org/guilds_locals.html

(BTW, I'm not a nun!) :evilgrin:

-----

China_cat, a lot of what you say is right in line with some of my own opinions. The US pretty much gave up on domestic steel production and that just sickens me. Not only is that a huge blow to our workers, but it is a very serious threat to our national security that we can no longer meet our own domestic steel needs. (I sure don't see the Repubs screaming about THAT, however, do you?)

I am also unhappy to think that entire towns have been devastated by the loss os US production of stuff like appliances and electronics. Here in Illinois you can take a trip to places like Decatur, Danville and Galesburg and you can see first hand what outsourcing is doing for our economy. Similarly, you can take a trip to Southern Illinois and see what remains of once productive Steel Mills.

That sucking sound we hear is the result of a LOT of mis-steps by not only the union leaderships, but also the rank and file, and the politicians we all elect. The GOP nationally sucks for Labor, but more often than not, so does the Democratic party. When I'm hanging blame, I can hang plenty of it on Dems who supported stuff like NAFTA and other anti union laws at local levels.

I am currently at odds with own local Dem party because they have pretty much abandoned Labor here locally. That abandonment will reflect in local candidate fund raising in this election cycle, with no Labor money going to most of the local Dems) but
mostly that abandonment will reflect in the number of Labor people running for Precinct Committee seats in the next ballot opportunity.

Dems want our money and our energy, but somehow they have forgotten that we ARE an interest with a specific agenda. We need to remind them of that, I think. While I'm never going to be able to remotely pass as a Republican, I know several rank and file folks who ID themselves as Republicans based on specific issues like Abortion, guns, and government involvement in our lives.

Right or wrong, they are ALSO union brothers and sisters who should have a voice and a vote.

Just as OPEIU represents a lot of different people/jobs, Labor represents a pretty diverse group of people that are frequently holding some conflicting attitudes. My main frustration is that we (the Labor Movement) have become so internally split over political labels that we have lost our focus on the good of the workers.

I share the frustrations of the folks who think that our internationals have not lived up to their promise, but I also look at our own locals and wonder if we dropped the ball too.

Peace and solidarity to you all. I sure didn't mean for this thread to become so divisive.


Laura

[China_cat]

25. The only divisiveness that I see

is from one poster who is about 100 years behind the times and trying to deny the reality of today's world. Yes, you can look for American made but you aren't going to find it very often. Even Unionbuilt Computers admits that they HAVE to use Asian made components because there aren't any American ones. The same with 'American' automobiles. The name is all that's left. (I mean, what's more AMERICAN than Jeep? Except it's now owned by Chrysler-Daimler, a German company that uses Asian parts.)

[davsand]

26. I'm very sorry if you felt that was directed at you!

My comment about creating division was intended as a mea culpa for having opened the door at all with this thread!

As a whole, I think too many consumers (both union and non-union ones!) just buy anything without even considering where or who made it. Maybe I'm a bit more wound up about it than some folks, but it just KILLS me when I realize how many of our union jobs have been lost to overseas or out of country production and fabrication.

I can't even buy UNDERWEAR that is made in the US with our fabrics our workers. Not to get to the TMI zone, but I still buy underwear, in spite of where it is made. Similarly, I still have to buy stuff other than T-shirts and union wear to dress for my office.

I'm not being critical of shoppers for buying what they need, but I am VERY critical of our national policies that have allowed us all to be forced to this point.

We have a Mitsubishi plant a couple of counties away. Several of our local manufacturers produce products that go into those cars. Diamondstar is UAW. I will not bash anybody driving something made here in the US (like those cars are,) but it still breaks my heart that so MANY people don't care.

"We will most certainly hang if we are not united" paraphrases one of the founding fathers of our country, and I think it is still a reality...

Laura

[China_cat]

27. If I might ask

which local do you belong to?

Because we are having problems getting members to do more than sign their cards and pay their dues. If your local is doing anything along those lines, maybe we could use some of them.

[davsand]

35. Check your inbox! n/t

:hi:

[Omaha Steve]

28. union made underwear made in the USA

http://www.unionhouse.com/

I'm wearing a pair right now!

[davsand]

32. I don't need a fly, darlin...

Bless your heart for that link--I saw some stuff on there I'm planning to order. Their undies will not work out for me, however. There are people who think I'm swinging a set, I'm sure, but I typically shop for panties and bras.

:evilgrin:


Laura

[Omaha Steve]

33. SOME not all of these are made in the USA

Try asking customer service about what is made here.

http://www.jms.com/category/3000000000.html

[davsand]

34. Have you ever checked out this UNITEHERE site?

http://www.unitehere.org/buyunion/

There is a link there to the NoSweat site, and I LOVE those guys.

What is also nice about that site is the link to that union hotel guide they offer. I use it if I have to travel. Go to it directly at:

http://www.hotelworkersrising.org/HotelGuide/

Regards!


Laura

[mdmc]

60. thanks for the link

yall got a rawdy bunch in here:kick:

[China_cat]

36. I haven't worn underwear in about 3 decades

so I'm ok there. And I sew, so very little in the way of clothing is bought but finding material made here is difficult. Our textile output now rivals that of steel. You do what you can. Walking around naked is not healthy. :)

You can find some jeans that are American made but you have to check closely on where they came from. The prison-made jeans are not SUPPOSED to be getting onto the market any more, but if they come from the pacific northwest, they're suspect. It's bad enough when foreign labor is being given our jobs but when an unpaid segment of society can be forced into it, that's even worse.

[Omaha Steve]

37. Jeans UNION made in the USA

http://www.unionjeancompany.com/

They had a fire at the factory, but should be shipping again this month. I have a pair and love them.

http://www.unionjeancompany.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=&Screen=PROD&Store_Code=ujc&Product_Code=25305

http://www.unionjeancompany.com/patches.php

[China_cat]

38. good. I don't wear them but my husband's needing

new ones.

Edited to add that I asked them permission to add them to the union site links page. Thanks again.

[bperci108]

41. If you or yours like Bibs.

www.roundhouse.com

Last american made work overalls, (at least that I can find).

Made in Shawnee, OK.

[Omaha Steve]

43. These are at Union House

Union made in USA, but I don't know where at.

http://www.unionhouse.com/

[bperci108]

44. I saw those after I posted my link.

The only problem is that I don't need a zip-off carpenter apron. Maybe they will increase their line to include some regular bibs soon.

But I'm glad to have the link. I'll spread it around.


:)

[demosincebirth]

48. Thanks

[DainBramaged]

29. yada yada yada, honey turn off the TV come eat dinner

click

[China_cat]

30. I am very disappointed

that, for all your 'credentials' that you presented, you can do nothing more than behave like a spoiled 13 year old who's had his Ipod taken away from him.

Oh, by the way, you never have answered either Omaha Steve or myself about whether you rant just as badly about the German owned car manufacturers who have plants here in this country? ('American' car builders don't have plants in Europe, either) Like Daimler (Chrysler, Plymouth, Dodge, Jeep) or BMW.

[DainBramaged]

31. Put away that IPod or I will take it away!!!!

Honey, did Daimler throw the unions out when they took over? I didn't think so. And ask Uncle Bob if the BMW plant is unionized ok? I'm pretty sure they are no better than the Asians. What's that, Toyota is building a plant in Canada because the non-Union trained workers in the South are too stupid to work in the high tech factories? Yes I heard that a year or so ago. Isn't it true that they have never run at capacity either because of the paycheck syndrome (oh you know, they drink their paychecks away on the weekends and don't show up on Monday) or because so many who apply can't read?

Well, let's finish dinner before that rude person comes knocking on the door again. Loves that foreign junk iron, doesn't she?

[bperci108]

42. "Honey"?

I guess we can add misogyny to the list...

What a super guy; bet he's a real hoot to hang out with. :eyes:

[demosincebirth]

46. Let me answer you. Union made is Union made...

"Look for the Union Label." Sound familiar?

BUY AMERICAN - BE AMERICAN

[Omaha Steve]

23. I have never had a car that wasn't a Chevy, Ford, or Dodge.

My wife's car is a Dodge Intrepid. That is now a German company building here. Is that the same as oriental cars built here?

[vssmith]

54. I live in a bedroom community of Lansing Michigan

and a significant number of our community works for GM. Sad thing is many of these same people get all their stuff at WalMart or Sam's. When they are laid off they scab jobs in the building industry etc. A damn good number voted for GW Bush too.

[demosincebirth]

55. I believe the union has to continue to educate the rank and file.

[vssmith]

56. They used to--what happened?

[demosincebirth]

57. YOu keep the peasants uninformed and you stay in power.

Very few local unions have a turn-over of officials. Elections, at time, are just "going through the motion."

[vssmith]

58. Interesting

I grew up on the iron range of Minnesota. I worked in the mines a couple of summers (1960-61) while I was going to college. The union there and then was a lot stronger/active than I observe around here in the UAW. I know at one time the UAW was strong too when Walter Reuther was around but now a lot of the workers talk with disdain about their union. It is really a sad state of affairs. I hope for a resurgence in unions--they made our country great.

[demosincebirth]

59. Once uinion officials started putting their members second to themselves

unions started their slide. Also, Reagan didn't help either whe he fired the traffic controllers in '80. Once he done that, it gave the OK to fire strikers and replace them with scabs.