Introducing Ed and Lara (a drug policy thread)

[mdmc]

Hello DU. Today I would like to introduce you to two of my friends, Ed and Lara.

Ed works for his family's oil company. His company delivers oil to local homes. Lara works for the NYS Department of Corrections. She is a "felony victim mediator". It is her job to help victims of felony crimes deal with the truama of the crime that was committed against them.

Ed and Lara are not political people. However, Lara's dad is an elected county legislator, and he is also a retired County Court Judge. Ed and Lara are both registered Republcans. Both actually belong to the County GOP committiee, and are essientially proxy votes for Lara's dad.

In the area that I live in, most elections are decided in the GOP primary - whoever wins the GOP primary is elected in the genreal election. Ed and Lara always vote for the non-conservative candidate in the primary. With all "public" votes, they vote as Lara's father instructs them to.

Both generally vote for the Green party candidate, unless a Democrat has a chance of winning. They are very liberal republicans.

Ed and Lara have never been arrested. They have clean driving and criminal records.

Lara and Ed generally buy and smoke an ounce of herb per month. They purchase this herb from a friend of the family that lives in their neighborhood. They generally only smoke at this neighbors house. They don't smoke at home or in front of their children.

On night, their drug dealing friend had a new girlfriend over when Ed and Lara showed up. Ed and Lara felt like they were intruding on this new couple's date, and decided to leave after dinner. Generally, they smoke and watch tv after dinner.

While driving home, Lara decides to smoke a joint. Ed is driving and is not at all smoking. A police man pulls them over.

The cop informs Ed that he was pulled over because a stolen car was reported that matched the vehicle that Ed was driving. The police officer had run Ed's license plate, and determined that Ed was not driving a stolen car. As the police officer approached Ed's car to inform Ed that he was free to go, he noticed the smell of pot burning. He asked them about it, and Lara admitted to having a joint.

How do you think that this situation should be resolved? The DRUG WAR is not only about what should be legal or illeagal, but also how these laws should by enforced. How do you think this situation was resolved and how should it have been resolved? How would it have been resolved in the area that you live in?
on edit -
1) What do you think happened in this situation (how do you think it was resolved)?
2) How do you think this should have been resolved?
3) How would this event played out in your home town?

[Ezlivin]

1. The Drug War is a failure, but here goes...

How it was really handled

The couple was first asked to step out of the car, it was searched, and they were both arrested. The car was towed and impounded as evidence.

How it should have been handled

The officer runs a quick license/registration check, then bids them farewell.

[BigMcLargehuge]

3. you aren't suggesting that the aroma of pot isn't probably cause-

for a search? Are you? What if the officer smells cordite. Should he bid them adieu and figure the smell of burnt gunpower probably didn't come from a pistol hidden under the seat and maybe used in a crime?

[Ezlivin]

6. Well, now, the poster asked "how should it have been resolved"

That's the way I think it should have been resolved.

Sure the law is different, but I didn't take that into account. That's why I opened my post with what really happened.

If the officer smells cordite and yet there is no other probable cause to hold them, then they should be left go. Perhaps they have a car full of guns still warm from shooting practice. That's still legal.

What if the officer sees an empty prescription drug bottle? Is it his responsibility at that point to call the pharmacy, to call the doctor and to check the side-effects? Should he immediately order a urine test to see if the driver is taking the medication at the proper dose or if he/she is using other contraindicated drugs?

[BigMcLargehuge]

11. taking the cordite example -

if the couple were just coming back from shooting practice, that's fine and dandy, but the officer would still be well within his rights to search the car and have the driver provide access to the guns in question. We both know what probably cause means, so I won't belabor the point. Same with a drug bottle, the officer should check the ID of the occupants against the name on the bottle. The same as if he sees and an open container of beer, or wine, or whiskey. In NH, you can't have open containers for any kind of alcoholic beverage in the passenger area of the car. Even transporting recyclables can draw and open container fine here.

[porphyrian]

10. It's held up in court before, at least in Florida. - n/t

[jukes]

15. BMLh

this cop wd have to have the nose of a bloodhound. i've seen this scenario played out y purgered in courts many times.

i wasn't there, but i know the aroma of marajuana. it's unlikely to compete w/ exhaust fumes, pollen count, perfume on the woman, or a stiff breeze.

and few people w/ any connection to LE have not encountered, annecdotally, that "oral admissions" are really stupid.

besides, in any investigative enquiry, the officer wd have had to mirandize them before questioning any suspected illegal activity. which wd make her the dumbest person i've ever heard of to admit a goddam thing.


i'm not buying this story. america's "War on Drugs" (tm) has struck again. shock & awe!

[mdmc]

16. but what should be done to this couple?

[Mojorabbit]

22. The same as they used to do in the 70's

here in Fl. The cops would confiscate your weed and send you on your way with a lecture.

[noonwitch]

17. Your perception of the odor changes if you smoke a lot of it

When you were a teen and smelled it for the first time, at a rock concert or party, you probably thought it smelled very strongly. As you were exposed to it over time, whether you smoked it or were just present where it was being smoked, you get used to the odor. A cop who never smokes (especially if he doesn't smoke cigarettes, either) it will be able to pick it out of car odors, unless the people are also smoking cigarettes, the smell of which overpowers all.

I have no doubt the cop smelled it. I also think that he is bound by duty to enforce the law.

I think marijuana should be legalized and taxed. Until that day occurs, cops have to enforce the laws that are on the books.

Why didn't she throw the joint out the window when she saw the flashing lights? Oh, yeah, she was high.

[jukes]

19. possibly, you're right

also, she cdv been puffing her ass off, y was too high NOT to amswer the question.

i just think it's bullshit; most i wdve done wd make her dump the baggie. LOTSW of cops wdve confiscated, let her go w/ a warning, y got high as a mother later that night.

but Officer Straightarrow made himself a big-ass drug bust.

shit, maybe it was cold out & he wanted to get inside to write a report...

[mdmc]

23. in this situation

Lara was smoking when the cop pulled up behind them. Since they only had the one joint, Lara put it in the ashtray. It was hard for the cop not to notice it. I think that this cop would have preferred to avoid the herb all together.

The cop ended up letting them go, with a verbal warning. Ed and Lara purchased "a table" (ten tickets) to the policemen's ball.

[jukes]

18. i believe the cop

ASKED. that's an investigative question & requires a miranda warning.

look, i know cops bend the rules, and some are tight-asses that think pot is "devil-weed".

i also think he'll win the case.

BUT, i wdnt have done it, and i think it sucks. most i wdve done is make her dump the baggie out on the curb.

[BigMcLargehuge]

2. the number of irrelevant conditions related to the characters

puts me off. Let's trim it down, and we'll put up a comparison argument.

Ed and Lara like to smoke pot.
Pot is considered an illegal substance.
Laws banning the cultivation, sale, or use of pot were duly put forth our representative government at both state and federal levels.
To date, challenges to these laws have failed.
Ed and Lara break the law when purchasing pot.
Ed and Lara break the law when storing pot at home.
Ed and Lara break the law when smoking pot.
Ed and Lara break the law when smoking pot AND driving.

A police officer isn't an adjudicator. Their job is not to interpret the law based on the situation.
Their job is to enforce the laws that are on the books.
If, for example, the state law decreed that people caught smoking pot while driving should be arrested, then they should be arrested.
If the state law says that people arrested for smoking pot while driving should be put in jail, then they should be tried, and if found guilt by a jury of their peers, put in jail for a length of time based on the sentencing guidelines of the state.

This isn't a drug war question, this is a failure to abide by the law because you don't personally like it question. Keeping with the theme of trafic and driving -

Ed and Lara could be reckless drivers, excessive speeders, fail to stop at red lights, even though they know these laws are on the books and they could be arrested for it. In this case, like the case with buying and using an illegal substance, Ed and Lara CHOOSE to break the law. They should then be prepared to pay the state set consequeces for their actions.

[mdmc]

5. so how should this incident be resolved?

I posted below how it was resolved in real life... in NYS. I know that is would be different in Montana, or Alabama.
1) What do you think happened in this situation?
2) How do you think this should have been resolved?
3) How would this event played out in your home town?

[BigMcLargehuge]

9. I like to think it would play out here in NH the way it did in

real life as you described, but only, and I mean only, if it played out that way in every case irrespective of social standing, race, or age of the people in the car. Unfortunately, the status of Ed and Lara seems to have insulated them from the law, whereas if Ed and Lara were minorities, or teen, or minority teens, they would be shuffled off to the clink almost before they heard the last sentence of the Miranda rights.

Everyone should get the same treatment from the law, as the law applies to everyone equally.

[mdmc]

14. The law applies equally, but enforcement of the law is not.

If Ed and Lara where black, they would have been given a ticket, no doubt. Not fair at all.

[mdmc]

4. In Orange County NY

The cop noticed that the couple was affluent and well known within the community. The cop checked both Lara and Ed's criminal history, and noticed that it was clean - no prior arrests or tickets. Lara informed the cop that she had bought the joint at a concert, and that she wanted to smoke it, but not at home where her kids where.
The cop took the joint, and ground in into the dirt with his foot. He did not give them any tickets, but warned them never to buy drugs again.

The cop knew that his stopping of the car could be challenged in court.
The cop knew that this couple would be able to afford a lawyer.
The cop knew that this amount of pot would only be a violation (punishment could only be in the form of a financial fine).
The cop knew that it would be "bad publicity" to arrest an affluent couple from a well known family.

The "enforcement of the law" was not considered to be in the public interest. The public interest was best served in the case by the cop offering a warning and a second chance. That is what happened in this case.

[snappyturtle]

7. I agree with number one, as to how............

this situation should have been handled.....but we all know if we keep small minded people going after each other for petty violations we: 1) can populate the private prison system 2) keep the people occupied with frivolous affairs to keep their eyes off what's really important. The prohibition of alcohol really worked. :sarcasm:

I'm looking forward to the day this country WAKES UP and starts commercially growing hemp like our forefathers did and the Canadians are doing......but this awakening will never occur while small minded people and laws go after the little guys and criminalize marijuana. I know the law is the law is the law. I wonder how #2 feels about illegal immigrants? The law is the law!

[porphyrian]

8. This is the problem with mandatory minimum sentences.

"How do you think that this situation should be resolved?"
Marijuana should be legalized, with similar restrictions as tobacco and alcohol. With this in place, Ed and Lara would be sent on their way without any legal complication.

"How do you think this situation was resolved and how should it have been resolved?"
This depends on a number of factors you probably left out intentionally.

If the cop was Black, and Ed and Lara were Black, there is a chance they might be let go because Lara works for DOC and her dad is a legislator.

If the cop was White, and Ed and Lara were Black, there is more of a chance that they would be arrested, but the DOC employment and legislator dad might still have gotten them off.

If the cop was Black or White, and Ed and Lara were White, there are equal chances that they might be let go or arrested, depending on the cop's status on the force, what kind of day he had, and how close to the end of his shift it was.

The outcome is also determined by what kind of car they were driving (especially if Ed and Lara are Black and the car an expensive one).

In the area I live in, the attitudes would be about the same as the above.

Obviously, I'm generalizing, and I haven't accounted for any races other than Black or White, but that's my understanding of how things might pan out.

[spag68]

12. Pullover

I think they should be let go one way or another, but really what should happen in the future is that the cop asks for a hit, then comments on it's potency and wishes them a good night.

[nashville_brook]

13. my solution, in my perfect world

pot would be decriminalized and destigmatized so people could smoke in the safety and comfort of their own homes. tax it and fix some of the damn potholes in the roads. or better yet -- spend the money on good mass transit.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

20. Either One Or Both Were Charged With Posession. The Driver maybe also

charged with driving under the influence.

How should it have been? Passenger arrested for possession. There was probable cause. As long as pot is illegal the charge would be appropriate. I think the bigger question is should pot be illegal? Well, No. Not by a longshot.


As an additional personal point of note, NEVER EVER SMOKE POT IN A CAR. While pot is illegal, there are some very simple steps to be taken to enjoy the drug as we should while avoiding confrontation. The #1 rule is you never, ever, ever, ever ,ever light up in the car. Period.

[mdmc]

21. IT is easy to be busted in a car

basically, if you only smoke at home, you should never have trouble with the law.