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Seperation of church and church (my Falwell Easter)

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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 01:02 PM
Original message
Seperation of church and church (my Falwell Easter)
Edited on Mon Apr-17-06 01:15 PM by underpants
This is a repost from Editorials and other articles forum.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=204296&mesg_id=204296


What you are about to read is true. I have omitted names as much as is possible in consideration of those who have no control over my posting this on the internet...anyway anyone who needs to know names ;-) sees everything anyway.

My wife was raised in a religious house. Religion in the old fashioned "do unto others" form. Church in these circles serves both as a meeting place as well as a means of helping the community. She would like our 8 month old daughter to be raised in the same fashion. Aside from someone being dead or getting married I had not been to church since I was wearing a green leisure suit from Sears (almost 30 years ago) either way drinks were served afterwords. So I agreed to go.

This is the same church that we were married in. BIG church. Not exactly a "mega church" but certainly not a small chapel in the woods. As one of my best friends said when he walked in for the wedding rehearsal (3 years ago) and as everyone was craning their necks straight up and turning in circles "Boy, God can sure hear you in here". BIG church, seats about 5,000 I'd guess.

So the service starts. Singing and music and what have you. Older crowd and not very many people there considering it is THE highest of holy days for christians. The man whom I assumed was the preacher was really the choral director, they don't actually have a preacher right now. The man who lead this congregations for several decades retired and the man who followed him left to do mission work. This is a big church solidly positioned in the community but needing direction.

The program cited the hymns that would be sung but there was no mention of the hymn book. We were directed to a watch the projection about the missions being carried out by NAMB (North American Missions Board) I saw this in the program. Yes, NAMB. There appeared two simulcasts way up in back of the alter about 50 feet up in the air on either sides of the organ pipes that went up to about 65 feet. After the short film the lyrics to the hymns appeared. No use of hymnals. No written music to entertain you or to inform those who can't even read music as to when the scale would go up or when to hold a note. Seems that from now on there will be not even rudimentary introduction of written music. Commas, colons, and semi-colons were used to represent breaks in the music.

Okay now the main part of the story.

The guest speaker starts. He came complete with a microphone head seat and a slick suit. This guy, I was told, has been quite a hit at a local smaller church. This was a step up for him, a stepping stone it appeared to me. So he started speaking and he was pretty good. Not what I expected from a Baptist service although I had actually heard my first "Can I get an AMEN?" firsthand. He was talking about waiting in a line to see his IDOL Dr. Adrian Rogers. He waited on the line to the left until he was only 2 or 3 people away then suddenly Dr.Roger's attention was diverted to the people waiting on the right side. He ran over and got in that line and waited until he was about 3 or 4 people away from talking to his IDOL Dr.Rogers when the line shifted again, back to the left. I was expecting a lesson on sticking with your instincts and persevering and receiving your reward at the end (it is Easter remember). Then he said pretty close to exactly the following:

"I was waiting there wondering how I could ever get to see the great Dr. Rogers when who should I see walking towards us but the Reverend Jerry Falwell

Let me interrupt to say that there was a loud laugh at this. The people of this church see Falwell about the same as many here do-- a phony interested mostly in self enrichment and being a political operative dressed in a preacher's clothing. Everyone seemed to move around to get ready for a good Falwell story. Lynchburg is only an hour away so many of these people know Falwell very very well-personally from high school and his early years and such.

Mr.Falwell recognized me and as he shook my hand I told him how I was trying desperately to see Dr. Rogers. He put his arm around me and said, "Not to worry" and with that loudly said "Out of the way" "Clear a path" and together we walked right up to the table where he introduced me to Dr.Rogers. My friends this is much like how, being a good Christian, having accepted Jesus Christ as your savior how when you die Jesus will put HIS arm around you and say to God "Father he is with me you can let him in"

Dead silence in the church. I didn't hear any gasps but there was something you could feel in the room. My wife aptly described it as a "Stiffing" everyone seemed to sit bolt upright. Did he just compare Jesus to Falwell????

Yeah apparently he did. My in-laws got the exact same message they told us later.

He finished and the service went on with some more hymn lyrics projected on the church wall.

After the last hymn the acting preacher said one last prayer "I would like to thank you all for coming today and I would like us to remember men such as Dr. James Dobson and Billy Graham and all that their ministries have done to spread the word of our Lord..." I pretty much stopped listening at that point. I wasn't about to storm out on my in-laws church but I was shocked.

It appears to me that this church is in the midst of a take over. A corporate takeover. The preachers (the guest including) seem to want to make this a mini-MEGA church. Basically a minor league stepping stone church and going out of the way to mention Dobson tells me they have politics on their minds.

Truly a shame. Everyone that I had met from the church were good good salt-of-the-earth type people. Politically I don't think the church leaned anyway officially but it is a railroad town a union town a BIG D Dem town. Looks like the slick suit is sheeps clothing.
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. Eeewww
Well now that's a sad story.
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. Anyone who thinks Falwell is Jesus...
Well, they've got the Kool-Aid injected directly into their veins at that point.
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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
3. Oh my
you have to wonder just how much gray matter the poor man has. He is very confused. Talk about "star struck"!
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. "Name dropper"
That was what I thought I should say to my wife as soon as we got into our car but instead I said "Did he compare Jesus to Falwell???"

She nodded, "Yeah he did"

She shot me a look when it happened but I was focused on not having any noticeable movement at the time.

Amazing.

Let restate that he compared Jesus TO FALWELL not the other way around...as if Falwell is the mark to measure against.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
4. Keep your womin folk out of there! Jeez! So that's how the nightmare
begins, huh? Can you be the guest preacher next week?
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BeTheChange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
6. One visit, eh?
"It appears to me that this church is in the midst of a take over. A corporate takeover. The preachers (the guest including) seem to want to make this a mini-MEGA church. Basically a minor league stepping stone church and going out of the way to mention Dobson tells me they have politics on their minds. "

And came up with all that? Interesting.

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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Yeah one visit
but then I talked to two people who have been going to that church for about 30 years.

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BeTheChange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Well..
Edited on Mon Apr-17-06 03:18 PM by BeTheChange
Bless your heart for taking such time and consideration to make those judgements.


Maybe you should become a member and help them not go down that path.
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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
8. YIKES!
A green leisure suit?
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. STOP IT!
I was young and impressionable

The hair was actually wider than the collar.
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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Dear Underpants
My father who died in 1973 is buried in a powder blue leisure suit that my mother MADE for him. White belt, white shoes. He was stylin.

Was it lime green or olive green or, heaven forbid, kelly green? :spank:

Interesting story. I gave up on organized religion a long time ago. I actually like and find religion interesting and have my own very deep spiritual beliefs. I am glad I got out of it before it was hijacked like it is now.
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King Coal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. And here he is, the one, the only..............
Edited on Mon Apr-17-06 03:31 PM by King Coal
Leisure Suit Larry Underpants.

I enjoyed the story. Thanks. It reminded me of how I got kicked out of the Methodist Church so many moons ago. How was I to know you weren't supposed to raise your hand to ask questions?
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
10. Is this a congregational-type church?
That is, is it run by the membership, or is it part of a denominational hierarchy, with leadership brought in by fiat from a ruling body (whether it's a bishopric, presbyter or whatever)?

It's not surprising that a church without a regular pastor would see attendance down on Easter or any other Sunday, but if this is a congregational church that searches for, interviews and hires its own leadership, then Mrs. Underpants and her like-minded co-congregants need to step up and express themselves or watch their church subsumed by a small but dedicated minority. SOMEBODY invited this man to fill the pulpit on Easter Sunday (and authorized his honorarium out of the church's funds). It's going to be up to somebody else to keep their congregation from trundling down this path.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Good point
It is really "Mrs.Underpants" 's folks church.

They aren't as involved as many. Like I said it was a place without and agenda at least a political agends.
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Most Baptist churches are congregational
That is, they select and hire their own employees, and the pastor is an employee. Like I said before, someone in the congregation invited this garbanzo to preach on Easter Sunday. If Mrs. Underpants' parents and a majority of the congregation don't care for this type of "preaching" and do care for their church family, they'd better get talking to each other real soon so that this sort of thing becomes the exception and not the norm.
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
11. Doesn't the congregation get a vote on whether or not to go corporate?
Can't the preachers be fired or replaced if they're taking your family's church in a wrong direction?
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. I'm not exactly sure
it is Baptist but I don't know that it is part of a hierarchy.


:shrug:
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