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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-08-06 05:27 PM
Original message
When you bash poor people, conservatives win
They win over your mind with a great, big lie.

From Chris Bowers/MyDD:

Liberals Buying Into Conservative Lies, Part 27
by Chris Bowers



With the, quite frankly, idiotic red state - blue state tax revenue charts that have been floating around the blogosphere since the Election, Democrats have done a surprisingly good job of buying into and heavily reinforcing one of the most pernicious lies espoused by conservatives about liberals. Namely, we are reinforcing the baseless claim that liberals are wealthier than conservatives, and conservatives are justified in their hatred of liberals because a wealthy liberal elite who control the courts, media, entertainment industry, and banks oppress and attempt to corrupt conservatives without any respect for their traditions, values or faith. Not only is this narrative a revival of theearly twentieth century European narrative against Jews with only a simple substitution of terms for the hated minority, it is also blatantly false. I can't believe we keep buying into it.


Here is how people voted according to annual income in the 2004 Presidential Election (in thousands of dollars):

*snip*

http://chris-bowers.mydd.com/story/2004/11/12/155017/44

I could summon from the depths of my experience all of the affluent, SUV-driving Pukes I've met with their pristine khakis and their nice shoes and their arrogance. Does this mean every affluent SUV driving, khaki-wearing human being is an arrogant Repuke? How many of you folks with your big houses want me to be prejudiced against you?

I refuse to be bigoted. I have some good friends and family with some very cool houses who vote for the Democrats. They don't have to prove their progressive credentials day after day to me, even though they are in neighborhoods heavily populated with ** voters. They are in the same income bracket as 63% of ** voters. But that's okay, I refuse to stereotype everyone who might have some $$

But almost every day, someone who lives like me, poor in a rural area, is classified as the "typical" ** voter. It makes me so disgusted and frustrated to see otherwise-intelligent people buy into this frikkin' myth. Why do you people do it?

I earned maybe $8000 last year. 63% of the people in my income bracket voted for Kerry. So kiss my poverty-ridden, rural ass, those of you who view me as your inferior.

To quote the above piece:
But go ahead, keep talking about deadbeat states and the need to end red state welfare or to pass some legislation to "even things out." Buy into and internalize the conservative lies about you. It is something we are good at, and at the very least it makes us feel superior. Hopefully one day I will see you in detox

I could not have stated it any more clearly. Some of you catch a regular buzz from poverty-bashing.
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-08-06 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. Stupid poor people LOL
:popcorn: They are so poor they can't even afford to pay attention! :sarcasm:
Shame Shame Shame!!
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-08-06 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I'm series!!
Too bad lotsa poor people have degrees but maybe had a bankruptcy, lost their jobs, got divorced, got sick!!!!! All poor people who live in the country are **-Loving A-holes!!!!!!! GO rich Democrats!!!!!!

:rofl:
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-08-06 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. The free market is the only measure of a man
If the poor man was righteous, the gods of the free market would have rewarded him.
Those who are rich deserve their prosperity, as it is a measure of their worth as a person. :popcorn: :sarcasm:

Wow you are right, bashing poor people is fun, I guess thats why poor people get bashed here all the time. :eyes:
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BamaGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-08-06 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. My husband says this all the time lol
'I'm too poor to pay attention'. Unfortunately the longer the reps. are in power, the more true it is.
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-08-06 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. We need to turn the heat on the wealthy
to get the scum out. We poor folk are doing our part! ;)
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raysr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-08-06 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
2. I never thought of it that way
Edited on Sun Jan-08-06 05:58 PM by raysr
author is right. But I think that what the maps were showing was the difference in fed dollars the red states get compared to blue states.http://www.retrovsmetro.org/news/press_releases.php
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-08-06 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. I rarely hear that
thanks :P
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Nikki Stone 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-08-06 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
3. Good post
recommended
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-08-06 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Thanks, You're a pal
:pals:
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Nikki Stone 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-08-06 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Hey, if I had a beer, I'd give it to you
:toast:
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-08-06 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. And I'd give ya' one back!
:toast: :beer:
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-08-06 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
9. when you bash wisdom, divisiveness wins
Whenever somebody is selling something you don't really want,
isn't it tiresome?

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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-08-06 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. The facts lead to wisdom
but few want to buy the facts, even though they could use a few.
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Lost-in-FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-08-06 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
10. Good reading...
Thanks, and it does make sense.

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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-08-06 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. It just isn't helping our party to continue to peddle these stereotypes
We have to face who and what we are, and "we" are made up of a lot of poor people.

Thanks for your kind words. :)
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-08-06 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
16. Aw gee, how about a beneficial frame
If Bush connects so much with the every day workin' man, then why the hell did low income working Americans vote for Kerry. How about that?

And save the circular firing squad.
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-08-06 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. There's it in a nutshell
We ignore the truth to our peril. We could have a trickle-up increase in Dem voters if we appeal to ALL people, not just the middle class or wealthy.

Continually bashing and stereotyping one socio-economic class and calling this tactic "political commentary" or truth is just foolish for our party. What does it take to get some folks to see that? Or are they lost in the same Netherworld with the cretins who bash the "welfare queen?"
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Hidden Stillness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-09-06 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
18. The Word is "Poor," Not "Less Fortunate"
Well, I don't know how helpful the original MyDD article was, as the author seemed to be confused as to what the figures meant, but the issue of Democrats turning their backs on the poor and making a stereotype of them, is true. Ever since the entire political process got turned over to the corporations, the consultants and the media, everything has become a stereotype, of course, as nothing is dealt with as an issue, and everything is just "spun" or "sold." If Democrats are disproportionately rich, they are "limosine liberals," "latte liberals," and the "arrogant elite"; if Democrats are disproportionately poor, then they are "losers," "welfare-dependant," whatever else. It doesn't matter--they will spin it either way. The one important thing though, is that at some point, during the years of Clinton "D"LC, Inc., the poor became embarrassing and shameful to the official Democratic Party, and we have been losing ever since. Furthermore, the bigotry against the poor gets conflated with stereotypes about the South, my own Midwest, etc., and a really ugly thing develops. You start to get policy decisions based on it.

During the Clinton years, for example, we had deregulated corporations (tied to both Parties) slashing our throats, and Clinton offers us the "V"-chip, purchased from these same capitalists. No thank you. Manufacturing itself moved elsewhere, and the Clinton group gave us "retraining" for computer type jobs, that have also since outsourced out of the country. Good people were cut off of their meager welfare checks, and made to work for Clinton's corporate friends at poverty level wages, all so Clinton could play it as an "I am not an old-style Democrat" TV appearance. The more the rich consultants of the "D"LC take over the Party and its policies, the more the population of America itself--not rich, not corporate, needing help--is told to stand at the back, and get out of the picture. Nowadays, you almost never hear or read anyone who seems aware that there is any income level below $40,000 a year. Most Americans (can't remember exact figure) make less than $20,000 a year, and a large percentage less than $15,000. Democrats make these speeches about wanting to help "you" start "your own" business, then they killed us all by supporting the Bankruptcy Bill, seemingly unaware that almost all personal bankruptcies (NOT corporate, which oddly will be untouched by all this), are caused by medical bills and loss of jobs, not frivolous spending.

I have actually become poor this past year, badly hurt by the recent price-gougings and bill-gougings, which I am now unable to pay completely; I have no savings anymore. No Democrat ever refers to this. What is it like to be poor? I now know that dread that people feel whenever there is some strange new sound coming from your car, or anything in the house, because whatever it is, you can't afford to fix it. I now know the anger of seeing and hearing all these self-absorbed rich people on TV, with all their new electronic gadgets, clothes, vacations, SUVs, etc., etc., and I feel more and more that nothing on any of the media has anything to do with me anymore. Being poor means that no matter how good you are with budgeting money, you do not have enough. Being poor means that you can never actually do anything with your life: I would never dare take out a student loan or apply for any other courses, cannot just buy books anymore, etc., etc. All you can do is tread water, and worry about bills--there is no living progress anymore, or even any other issues.

Sometimes you notice these extremely poor people who are not on any government programs that might have helped, at all, and I always have to wonder whether they are so poor that they don't even know anything exists. After all, when does the corporate media ever refer to anything, except to lie about it and bash it. Further, when your overriding problem is that you have no money and no one is helping you, then anyone pitching any political activity at all, seems distant from you, and can even make you madder, as if you are being asked to advance and further their little causes, and yet no one even refers to your overwhelming suffering at all. No Democrat even fights to make corporations honor their after-purchase warranties anymore--just something as ordinary as that. There is a furious anger out here at corporate abuses, from price-gouging to underpaying employees, from deregulation to cheating their way out of their taxes, from outsourcing and downsizing to never answering consumers' questions and dealing with complaints--yet no Democrat seems even slightly aware of it or wants to respond. They as a group have been turned over to the corporate consultant "D"LC, Inc., and we are just a nuisance.

It never used to be that way. As it happens, I am reading an old book my Mom had, called "The Thirties: America and the Great Depression," and one thing this book is reminding me of, as it tells the events, is that people learned who the poor were, because it eventually came to be most people. They had not done anything to bring it on, but stupid, greedy management and its overreaching and speculation had; and once it had hit and there were no jobs, there was actually no solution on the individual level. It needed National policy. Thank God for Roosevelt, because they got it. People did not have "stereotypes" of the poor then, because they knew it was their own neighbors. Even desperate acts, such as the farmers highjacking milk delivery trucks and pouring all the milk out, to try to keep supplies down and a decent price for it, always used to be reported sympathetically, as what they were driven to, that they never would have done otherwise--until around the '80s, when everything started to change, the media was consolidated, and the message began to be that all the little peons should just suffer, and not solve their problems until their corporate master wants them "solved." Now, with everything "framing" and consultants and ad campaigns and corporate lobbying, there is no hope that Democrats will get back to a policy for the poor and middle class--they aren't even in the same world anymore. The only thing that will help is that, as the new Depression increases, the people will have to fight, as they did recently--(with no help from official Democrats)--on Social Security. No country will survive sacrificing its own people to global corporate greed and stupid overreaching.
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-09-06 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Thank you for your story and your perspective
Please take the time to read "What's the Matter with What's the Matter with Kansas" at this link:

http://www.princeton.edu/%7ebartels/kansas.pdf

One of the interesting factors in this issue is precisely what you discussed: the growing ranks of folks who are "poor." Nothing turns an opinion around so much as living the opposite of what you've always believed.

But the main point I want to make is this: we have got to figure out a way to court affluent and middle class whites. If 63% of Americans making $200,000+ voted for ** what does this tell us?

People on both the left and the right keep saying that the working class is the beast that led the voter backlash for Repukes. They act as if the lower third income voter is some strange beast they must appease and "trick" into voting for their best interests.

But if the NES ( National Election survey) is correct, 50% of lower third income whites voted for Kerry, while only 39% of the upper third income folks cast their votes for the Democrat. It appears clear to me that the "beast" is the latter class of voter, and that we had best figure out a strategy to move the upper classes into our camp or we have no hope of winning.

According to the piece found at the link above, lower income voters are putting economic issues over social issues statistically, and we needn't worry about walking on eggshells with them. More "poor" will result in more votes for Democrats if the trend over the last half century continues.

But why are the wealthy leaving the ranks of Democrats to join the Republican party? This is the Million Dollar Question. WE can rant and rage all we want to about those "stupid poor people who don't know how to vote" but those stupid poor people are voting for more Democrats than the stupid rich people and stupid middle class people.

Oh, I know, I'm just an ignorant 46-year-woman living in the hills who doesn't know political strategy from a potato soufle, but FWIW I have a high IQ and living poor has fine-tuned my bullshit meter (as I'm sure it has yours, Hidden Stillness).

Progressives who are so "sure" they understand the dynamics of this nation have made a bogeyman out of the working class, when their real fear should be over the middle and upper class voters who keep defecting to the Republican camp.

It's like spending hours in the house searching for a cat that's been under their bed the whole time, while outside their barn door is open and all of their horses are escaping. No matter how much you yell at them to come outside and round up their horses, they just want to keep bitching about that stupid cat only steps away from them.
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Hidden Stillness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-09-06 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Forget Rich People Completely
I am not really sure what to do about this situation either, but I am generally of the opinion that we as a Party should not address ourselves to rich people as a practice, and certainly not when making policy. Rich people and their concerns, being what they are, do not translate or even relate to the real-world concerns of the vast majority of people. Very few of them have a Roosevelt/Kennedy conscience; if you did what most of them want, we would already be a Third World country, instead of just getting there sometime next decade, as we are. Instead, I would just concentrate on getting the great, vast middle class back, that we used to have reliably because we used to actually do things to help their problems. No Republicans could even pull this "latte liberal" shit, if the mainstream voters knew that we had just raised their minimum wage, cracked down on corporate crime, strengthened safety regulations, or made rich people pay their taxes.

The middle class and the poor make up almost the entire population, and have many of the same problems--they are employees, they need Social Security, etc., any big medical problem will bankrupt them both, and they are probably in debt with credit card bills they can't pay off now. Their situations are similar, and they are our people. This is what I would concentrate on; it is almost the whole population, and those are the serious problems a society needs to solve. The number of actually rich people will not be enough to cost us any elections ever if we serve the great majority of people, except by stealing elections.

What I think Democrats should do is really clue in on the mounting anger and dread that people have because of corporations: express what people go though, from being laid off by corporations making record profits, and your pension raided, to all the recent price and bill gouges, from only being able to find part-time or temporary work, with no benefits, to corporations that will not honor warranties on products, that you can't even contact anymore--we should be hammering away at these things, because these are the real stresses and oppressions of modern life. We could easily get much more strong support than we have now, if we would ever actually connect with people and their problems. This reminds me of the study (United Auto Workers?) just after the last "election." It found that as a group, white males voted for Bush (?!), except for white males who belong to labor unions, who voted for Kerry. The reason is simple: people who belong to unions know what the issues are, what is threatened--and protected--by who, and are not interested by jargon and slogans. I grew up in a union household, and I remember some of those great union voting guides. I think rich people have always been Republican, mainly, just as they have always considered unions to be "infiltrated by Communists," etc. They live in that world, and it is one of their diseases.
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-09-06 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Well, that 39% is certainly a start, isn't it?
It is easy to give up hoping that folks with more $$$ would care about their country but I think that many can and do care, and when given the facts will want to do what's right.

Let's face it: Affluent people influence politics - by position and by donation. We need the resources of the upper class now more than ever.

If money is their issue, we need to show how Democratic principles make more economic sense (one look at the deficit ought to show them, but some folks don't even notice that HUGH1!1! red figure).

If security is the issue, we need to convince them that Repukes are not interested in protecting American people but only care about protecting their power and that steady stream of cash that flows from our Treasury into their bank accounts.

In my opinion, most of the little people get it.

Now we need to work on the big'uns.
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Hidden Stillness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-09-06 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Yes, a Good Point
I suppose you are right, that they as a group have to be dealt with and addressed, too; I suppose I am just so sick of this whole corporate/Republican/rich oligarch era and all its devastation, that I would just as soon those people not exist at all. My only hope is that, having gotten what they wanted, some of those people have a conscience and a sense of reality, and are now horrified at what their group has done--to us all. Also, no society really works at all, when you isolate one group and will not appeal to it, etc. We all have to be part of the whole, together, or it is unbalanced.

I've been thinking lately, reading this book about the '30s and the Depression, it reminds me that Roosevelt always won by landslides, that Hollywood was a lot more Democratic and liberal the middle-class way, then, etc., and if you think of it longer-term that way, there might be hope. All this really severe fragmentation and stratification is actually kind of recent, this really horrific, "Gilded Age" way that it has been since this group of devils took over.

Maybe the point is really more that the laws and regulations should not be geared toward corporations--deregulated, etc.--and not to the general good of society, rather than the way I have been feeling about things, that I just want to ignore rich people and to hell with them. Corporations running the government is the problem, rather than "rich people" as a blanket statement. As you mentioned, Democratic policies always work better for an economy, as the Congressional Budget Office, the IRS, the General Accounting Office, and all other objective sources always show. That was also a way to tell it to them. I cannot for the life of me, however, ever understand a group that votes for Republicans. What a bunch of assholes.
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