You know what I think it boils down to?

[Mythsaje]

We're frustrated that most Repugs don't give a shit what we think. They're immune to our prodding, our lightning wit, and our logic. So when something like this immigration thing comes up, we turn our vitriol on our fellow liberals, because we KNOW it'll have an effect. We accuse them of being racists, or insensitive, or snap at them for being "distracted" by the issue.

If we can't even discuss this crap amongst ourselves without devolving into nastiness, what are the chances we'll actually be able to rationalize our position with the enemy?

I repeat. The problem isn't with the immigrants, who are doing nothing more than we ourselves might do in similar circumstances--trying to build a better life for themselves and their families. It's with the system that allows them to be exploited at our expense and at the expense of America in general.

I have one thing to add, aimed at those who have been pounding this drum with all their strength and will. Knock it off. We're all on the same page. We're just reading different paragraphs.

[TomInTib]

1. You nailed it.

It is what it is and always has been.

You never hear any hue and cry along these lines when those of us here are going on about heading to Costa Rica, Canada, OZ, or where have you, to escape whatever fresh hell to which the gov will subject us.

This issue should be dividing and weakening the other guys, not us.

[MikeNY]

2. Still trying to figure out how immigration is a major issue

Does * think the Mexicans were calling for his impeachment or something?

[Mythsaje]

3. It IS a major issue in the border states...

Which is why the Repugs are pounding the drums to try to get support among people whose support is wavering now.

They don't offer any real fixes, just temporary bandaids--but, then again, that's all they ever really offer.

[laheina]

6. As a Californian

I don't think that it is a major issue, but like gay marriage or gay adoption, there are people that get all emotional over it. That's what the repugs want: they want to find the crazy buttons. If they keep pushing those buttons, then nobody can get a word in edgewise about the REAL issues.

[Mythsaje]

9. I know a nurse in Arizona

who gets REALLY upset about the issue...actually irrational. She talks about how much of their resources are taken up by the illegal immigrants overwhelming their hospital services.

I don't know first-hand what all this means, but I do know that otherwise rational people become WAY worked up over it. If we can't find a way to deal with the issue rather than trying to pretend it'll go away on its own, they're going to gain way too much ground with people who should know better.

I think the problem is with the corps and those who would exploit these people, but they'll continue to play the fear card and turn people who should damn well know better.

If we offer up intelligent resolutions, we can move past this issue and to the things that really matter.

[laheina]

10. I must say...

...that I respect your efforts. I wish more people had an attitude like yours. :)

[Mythsaje]

11. Thanks...

I'm frustrated by all this arguing about the subject. There's no good reason to demonize people who aren't all that different from our ancestors (many of mine came over from Ireland and Scotland at the end of the 19th Century) and just want to have a chance at a better life for themselves and their families.

The problem is that they're being used, and now scapegoated, by people who couldn't care less about them other than as a potential political tool. Most of them are good people who deserve better, and it's unfortunate that their need to better their lives makes them such good targets not only for exploitation by corporate interests, but also for native-born Americans and legal immigrants whose jobs and wages are threatened by the exploitation of these people who have very few legal resources to defend themselves against said exploitation.

I said on a thread a few days ago that we need to look at punishing those who hire undocumented workers on the cheap and offer education, amnesty, and protection for whistleblowers.

[laheina]

5. It's a shell game.

Look at the border, not at Iraq.

[NMMNG]

14. How is gay marriage a major issue?

or abortion?

Immigration is just another one of the minor issues the Repubs start trying to get people hysterical over right around election time, just to make it seem like they are desperately needed in office to keep things under control. It's all smoke and mirrors.

[SeattleGirl]

4. Good points!

I especially like your last two lines:

We're all on the same page. We're just reading different paragraphs.

I'm going to put that up in my office!

[laheina]

7. Agreed.

Let's fight the system instead of sniping at each other.

After all, snarkiness solves nothing. To find real answers, first we need a regime change.

[SeattleGirl]

8. Exactly!

I don't do snark unless I'm really pushed too far, and even then, I exercise great restraint, because it doesn't do anything but make a thread disintegrate into something very negative.

Though I must say, I've been the target of many a drive-by snark and insult! Oh well. I think that says more about the snarker/insulter than it does about me.

[EFerrari]

12. I agree with you 99%. And the remaining one per cent is important.

Because I support poor people and I am a Latina, I have been asked if I have "papers" - sort of like one would ask if a dog had a pedigree. Someone said I sounded as if I employed undocumented workers, and they hoped I would get "busted". I've had one person stalking me from thread to thread, baiting me, hoping for I don't know what, probably some violation of DU rules.

Hispanic DUers have been made very uncomfortable by the whole tenor of this conversation. And in putting it that way, I'm trying to do my best to be diplomatic.

I believe DU can do better than this. I believe that DU is a valuable resource that we respect and will care for, no matter the latest bait that is put out for us.

The issue of the corporatists exploiting us all is a difficult one. Let's not take the bait. Let's let them explode over it. We can do better.

[Mythsaje]

15. There's a few serious screwballs here...

I'll admit it. People who are just plain nasty for no good reason that I can identify. That someone would stalk you from thread to thread is just madness.

This is a hot button issue for a lot of people, even here. We can't let people get away with throwing the "racism" charge around as if it's a cure-all argument buster. I think for a lot of freeper types it IS about racism, but here there are a lot of people who see the corporate angle as being the important one.

For the average citizen--maybe one who DOES hire undocumented workers and pays them a fair wage--it can be about helping someone who needs help. But that's not why the corporations hire them. It serves their bottom line, not humanity.

[EFerrari]

17. What is an average citizen? Never mind. n/t

[shenmue]

13. I don't think so.

I won't be told to "knock it off." That's a problem on this site--if you don't tow the line on some issues, some people will really shout you down.

[Mythsaje]

16. I don't think we need to act like freepers...

but we could be more civil in our debates. Some people just get nasty because they can, and THAT'S what I'm talking about when I say "knock it off." Agree or disagree and I don't care. But if I want to be insulted I'm sure I can find a hundred different sites where I can be insulted by RWers who I don't give a rat's ass about.

I think the venom is unnecessary and counter-productive.