What to do with 12 million illegal immigrants here now?

[High Plains]

I don't see much support for amnesty or earned citizenship or whatever you want to call it.

So, if people don't support amnesty, what is to be done with the 12 million who are here?

Mass imprisonment?

Mass deportation?

If people favor these alternatives, please explain how to make it happen in a manner consistent with our values.

[shenmue]

1. Deportation

Breaking the law is not consistent with our values. Enforcing it should be.

[GrumpyGreg]

2. Ditto !

[leftofthedial]

3. I hope they all mow the lawns, pick the produce,

wash the dishes, flip the burgers, clean the buildings and build the houses before they leave.

[coalition_unwilling]

26. I hope they leave instructions on how to mow the lawns, pick the produce,

wash the dishes, flip the burgers, clean the buildings and build the houses before they leave :)

[proud2BlibKansan]

67. LOL

[High Plains]

5. Do tell how we're going to round up 12 million people.

[shanti]

61. exactly, and what about

LEGAL children of illegals? it's just not doable.

[rocktivity]

12. DING DING DING! Cap, you're our grand prize winner!

Breaking the law is not consistent with our values. Enforcing it should be.

"You can't deport eleven million people" is a line I heard several times yesterday. If offering every single one of them citizenship via amnesty can be done, why CAN'T they be all be deported?

:headbang:
rocknation

[High Plains]

19. Because people would cooperate with an amnesty but not with

being deported.

How many cops does it take to deport 12 million people?

[laheina]

47. And how can they do so in a manner that is

consistent with our values? And how much will that cost? And what extra officers, workers and administrators are to be enlisted in the effort?

I just don't think that such an idea is practical.

[LSK]

25. well people want to be citizens while they dont want to leave

Big difference.

[SoCalDem]

73. Ever pour water through a sieve?

Even if deportation WAS a real option, it would be IMPOSSIBLE to ever "complete"... The border is LONG and people who were deported, wouyld just find a way to re-enter..

The money required to do this would be better spent opening factories in Mexico and offering $8USD an hour to mexicans only.. The factories could be for things they need there and offered for sale for cheap prices they could afford.. You would see new communities springing up THERE, and people building futures in their country..

Mexico has a lot of unused land, and it could be used for a true "enterprise zone"..one that benefits the local people entirely, and as it prospered, the seed money could be used for other enterprise zones..

MEXICO is where the problem originates and it's the ONLY place it can be solved..

To even try to get a grip on it here would require the dreaded National ID card (AKA PASSPORT with RFID/biometric).. Only US citizens could access services..schools, hospital/medical care/social services, etc..

It's a good idea for us all to have passports, but lots of people get all paranoid when it's mentioned...and the doling out of benefits only to passport-holders would be a hard-hearted approach to issues..

MEXICO is the place to start... Give them a reason to stay, and they might just do it.

[Beausoir]

21. And to hell with their small children and families!

Round them all up in the middle of the night at gun-point and throw them back over the border, leaving their children here to wander the streets and fend for themselves.

Sheer genius! Why hasn't someone thought of this brilliant idea before.

Wonderful "values" on display.

[LSK]

24. so is being the melting pot and a land of immigrants

Seems our values are conflicting.

[leftstreet]

34. Probably more cost-efficient to round up the CEOs

And any/all employers who break the existing laws by hiring undocumented immigrants.

Make it illegal to pay any citizen less than the minimum wage.

Raise that minimum wage.

Let the 12-20 million undocumented workers in this country become citizens.

Then let the corporations go back and take a hard look at their budgets. If a MegaGlobalBusinessInc has to shave $300 million a year off an executive's pay - that's their problem, not ours.

[Jigarotta]

72. then deport George first.

he's broken more laws and made the idea of justice a disgrace.

Know the Real lawbreakers and what harm they do.

I really can't believe that I'm hearing some of this stuff here. So easily led...

No wonder we're here right now in it...

[YouthInAsia]

77. Ditto here, too

[radio4progressives]

98. Sounds like the Nazi Train Stations to me..

this thinking is so freaking Third Reich I can't believe i'm reading it on DU.

[democrat_patriot]

4. How hard is it to fill out the paperwork?

My wife did it when she moved here. It costs money, and it took a year, but it's the law.

If you're not here legally you should go back to your country of origin. That's the law (the same set of rules we expect * to follow).

I wouldn't expect to take a plane to Germany and just live there, there are laws involved.

Why is this such a big problem to understand?

[High Plains]

6. I think the annual quota for Mexico is about 20,000 people.

But hundreds of thousands are coming each year. Perhaps we should adjust our quota system to reflect the reality that our economy finds a place for all these undocumented workers.

But your reply didn't really address my question: What about the ones here already?

[TahitiNut]

29. One-sixth of Mexico's citizens live in the US ... over 20 million.

That's larger than the population of any of Mexico's states. We're not talking of naturalized American citizens of Mexican origin or descendants of Mexican immigrants - we're talking citizens of Mexico. One-half are in the US illegally ... estimated to be 7-11 million.

I don't believe any other country on the planet has as many of it's citizens living in another country, certainly not illegally.

For comparison, the US took in less than 1 million Vietnamese 'boat people' over 10-15 years beginning in 1975 - there are still anywhere from 50,000 to 150,000 Veitnamese refugees living in 'camps.' Personally, I was appalled at how we dragged our feet and resisted offering refuge to these people.

The US is already the home to more (legal!) immigrants than any nation on earth.

Anyone who can't see that the problem is the colonialist 'plantation' economy in Mexico and the desire of America's corporatist predators to get a piece of the cheap-labor action just isn't looking.

While I'm NOT in favor of it, I'd be far more in favor of invading and 'democratizing' Mexico, with the cooperation of Chavez(?), than I am with the war crimes we've been committing in Iraq.

[Jim Warren]

40. Oaxaca, Guerrero and Michoacan are quiet

3 of the poorest states account for a major percentage of illegals here. I've heard tales about towns in those regions that are emptying out of young and these days more middleaged men.



(as told by relatives of my wife who is from Oax.)

[proud2BlibKansan]

68. Currently it takes 18 months just to get that paperwork

I guess they could just hang out on the beach in Mexico waiting for their immigration papers to arrive :eyes:

[sadiesworld]

7. I don't have a problem with a temporary worker program

with possible citizenship as a goal for those ALREADY here (with fines, etc.). What I find galling is a temporary worker program for future immigrants. The elites want to legalize substandard wages and create a permanent underclass--not to mention permanently damage the earning capacity in a number of occupations.

[High Plains]

8. I think something like that is the only realistic way of addressing

this. We have some people calling for mass deportation, but I don't see much sign they've really thought it through.

[sadiesworld]

11. Make no mistake...

I certainly share their frustration. But I think if people believed that the politicians were actually serious about going after employers, they would be more open to alternative strategies in dealing with the illegal immigrants already here.

[terryg11]

17. I agree this is about wages

and the best way to fight it is to present it as such

[NNN0LHI]

9. What about their families who are here? Most born here and legal?

Wonder whats going to happen when the Minutemen and some Democrats try and deport some US citizens 'illegal' parents?

:popcorn:

Don

[EFerrari]

62. I think we should eat them. Two birds.

:sarcasm:

[proud2BlibKansan]

69. Are you proposing we eat the Minutemen or the immigrants?

Can I have barbecue sauce on mine? :evilgrin:

[YouthInAsia]

78. LMAO!

[mondo joe]

82. They can always return when they are independent, or if their parents

legally immigrate at a later date, couldn't they?

If a citizen takes his or her family outside the US for some period the kids don't get to decide to stay. They go where the parents go.

[Solon]

97. Not true...

depends on the nation they are from and how accomodating the US is to the parents and children. There was a woman from Venezuela that was forcibly deported, WITHOUT her children, who were natural born US citizens.

This is the only link I can find, the original apparently has been deleted:

http://www.muhajabah.com/islamicblog/archives/the_clipboard/008705.php

[Greyhound]

10. If we adopt an anti-employment position, as opposed to the anti-immigrant

position that so many seem to support, even here, the 12+ million will go elsewhere. They came here with nothing but a will and the possessions they could carry, if there is nothing for them here, they will go where there is.

[terryg11]

15. where would they go?

they cme here from Mexico because they can walk or drive here and the econmy is better.

[TahitiNut]

32. Texas.

Give it back. :evilgrin:

[Greyhound]

46. Some will go back to their home country, some would go to Canada

Others would probably stay, one way or another, but I like TahitiNut's solution best. :evilgrin:

[Ignacio Upton]

75. Canada's immigration policy is even stricter than ours

The Canadians have actually ben talking about the need for MORE immigrants. Only 1 million hispanics even live in Canada, versus tens of millions of hispanics who live here.

[kurth]

13. Criminalize their hiring, and they'll be gone

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

14. Yeah! Let's load up the cattle cars and send them to Poland.

Or, we could grant them amnesty, make them citizens, and let them decide their own fate like human beings rather than bogeymen coming to "steal our jobs".

[rockymountaindem]

16. I resent that remark.

I don't think anybody on DU has an attitude toward illegal immigrants similar of that of the Nazis toward Jews. Nobody's talking about mass murder here.

[High Plains]

18. People are seriously advocating mass deportation.

I think attempting to do that would raise serious issues about the nature of our society.

How would we go about doing it? Immigration cops on every corner? Roadblocks? Hassling everyone with a brown skin?

Do we make deportation a priority and have law enforcement focus on that instead of real crime? Do we hire another million or so cops and prison guards?

[rockymountaindem]

23. Two things:

First of all, that's different than the analogy of "put them in boxcars to Poland", which means starvation, forced labor and gas chambers. Nobody's talking about that and I was offended by that remark.

Also, I think the deportation argument, IMHO, doesn't involve a concerted massive effort to deport 12 million people at once. In my mind, such a program would simply mean deporting anyone who came to the attention of the authorities who was here illegally. That way it would be done slowly, and people could probaby avoid the eye of the authorities if they didn't work for a place that was investigated for hiring illegals or didn't get picked up for other violations, such as a speeding ticket.

I don't think anybody is advocating roadblocks and house-to-house sweeps.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

27. The Nazis weren't talking about mass murder until 1942.

Before the Wansee Conference they favored deportation and resettlement in places where the Jews were given the liberty to starve..along with the Poles, Russians, Ukrainians, and other "undersirables".

[rockymountaindem]

30. I know that

There was also the Madagascar plan, but how does any of that parallel simply sending people back to their country of origin? That does not ipso facto become a plan of mass starvation and death. Enforcing immigration law is not the Holocaust.

[EFerrari]

66. The Holocaust started out as a relocation plan for people

who were not German enough.

[mondo joe]

83. But they were German citizens. And they were not allowed to leave Germany

in many cases.

Any more false analogies?

[NNN0LHI]

99. Jews were forced to leave Germany in the beginning of the "Final Solution"

http://www.mtsu.edu/~baustin/emigrate.html

The Forced Emigration of German Jews

The first major step leading to the "Final Solution" was the attempt on the part of the Nazi regime to force Jews to emigrate out of Germany. Hitler's motivation seems to have been two-fold: to ensure the racial purity of Germany and to create lebensraum, "living space," for German nationals of "Aryan" blood. His obsession with the former is reflected in the Nuremburg Laws of 1935. Throughout the 1930's Nazi domestic policy was aimed at stripping Jews of any citizenship rights, economic and political rights. The first step toward a "Final Solution of the Jewish Problem" was the complete dehumanization of the Jew.

[mondo joe]

80. Nor were they talking about sending illegal aliens back to their country

of origin.

[LSK]

20. whats wrong with earned citizenship again???

:popcorn:

[Cleita]

22. There is no way to do it in a manner consistent with our values.

I think the military is going to try to recruit these workers promising them permanent residence if they spend some time in the military. I think this is how they are planning their endless war without a regular draft.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cleita]

31. Yes, you see what is happening. To bad so many of us don't.

Welcome to DU!

:bounce: :toast:

[Roaming]

33. I think really the only answer is to stop the massive tidal wave

coming in right now. Not much we can do with those already here except when they're caught apply the laws already on the books, IMHO. But we have to stop the influx of illegals and give the people who are doing things legally in terms of seeking citizenship all the favor.

[Yupster]

56. Thqat does seem a logical first step

If you find yourself in a big hole it seems step A would be to quit digging.

[PsN2Wind]

35. Enforce the law against hiring

Real penalties with real fines and/or loss of license to do business.
If this had been done for the last twenty years, that would be since the last amnesty in 1986, the problem would not exist now.
If the jobs that allow them the means to survive here AND send billions back home each year disappear, we would have to build a fence to keep them in, so those that are afraid they might have to mow their own lawn will have cheap labor.

[Cobalt Violet]

36. Stop employing them.

Severe penalties for employers. Severe enough that it won't be cost effective to hire them.

[nonconformist]

37. If the slave labor pool dries up, many will leave on their own accord

Particularly the ones that only come here for a couple of years and send most of their earnings home to Mexico.

The ones that want to remain in the US permanently will be forced to go through the legal channels to stay, so they can obtain employment.

It's not perfect, but there IS no perfect answer to this problem. There will be losers whatever happens. But what I do know is a strong middle class and humane labor laws are what is consistent with our values.

[msgadget]

38. Penalize those who hire them,

enforce loitering and housing laws. I hope they'll apply to come in as legal immigrants and as such will fight with us for higher wages benefits. :bounce:

[harpo]

39. Where does the number 12 million come from? Why not 200 million?

[Minnesota Libra]

41. I would favor deportation whenever they are caught for whatever...........

.....reason. Whether it is a speeding ticket, hospitalization, applying for housing, or any other reason. Whenever they come to the attention of official they should be deported after finger prints, mug shot, and DNA are taken. After this is put into practice both our border should be patrolled from a "prove you belong here" point of view. Not only would we secure our borders but we would put OUR OWN PEOPLE TO WORK at the same time.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Minnesota Libra]

44. Oh pleeeeeeeeze!!! When someone stands up for OUR COUNTRY.......

....we're suddenly racist, Nazi, and everything else. Yet when illegal aliens want to take over our work force that's all right. Show me the fairness in that. This is the one and only issue I disagree with liberals on and yet I've been called everything in the book and now even a Dachau guard.:puke:

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PsN2Wind]

42. OK, only deport those

that have committed a felony. That would be all that are using forged or stolen documents to gain employment.

[Imagevision]

45. Construction business would cry their butts off - illegals work 7/24

with no evertime and they work their butts off because $10.00 per hour is better then $4.95 per day Mexicon style.

Mexi's got to stay, it would hurt the econmomy if yoy cut 1-2 million let alone 10 million -- never happen. Bush simply needs a good face to walk out of this one on

[PsN2Wind]

55. You know what the compensation was for the CEO of KB Homes

in 2004? $43,000,000. Yeah they'd go tits up if they had to pay what the job was worth.
This is another giveaway to Corporate America, only they are giving away a job that THEY wouldn't do or expect THEIR kid to do.
Must be a lot of people here that never got their hands dirty at a job or had to break a sweat in the course of a days work.
As for deportation. Actually it could be done. I see posts here about how long a string of buses would be needed and other blather. In the latter stages of World War II, the United States was transporting 250,000 troops a month overseas.
All you people seem to think there is going to be no cost. Just the added bureaucracy will be another big government agency. And once the family reunification kicks in, our tax dollars will be going to these newly-minted legal residents to pay them to build schools to educate their children.

[matt819]

48. Maybe we here at DU are a microcosm, maybe not

But it certainly seems that we are grappling with the same two sides of the argument as the republicans. Half of those folks want a guest worker program (employees without votes or representation) and half want those smelly people with diseases (a paraphrase from an NPR interview yesterday) sent home. So it looks like the issue will either divide all of us even further or make very strange bedfellows.

In an ideal world, everyone would follow the rules, fill out all the paperwork, pay all the fees, and then wait in line. Or, take a step back, and all those folks wouldn't even think about crossing the border. But neither of those things have happened. Sure, there are hundreds of thousands perfectly legal aliens in the US who did things the right way, more or less. They married an American, adjusted legally from F, H, or L visa status. They invested. They were the son, daughter, parent, etc. of someone who was a citizen. Great. Welcome. Maybe in three generations (like many Americans whose ancestors came to this country in the late 19th and early 20th century) the grand children or great grandchildren of these legal aliens can struggle, as we are now, to sustain whatever hold they may have on a middle class existence.

But the fact remains that there are, according to the reports being bandied about these days, 10-12 million illegal aliens, the majority of whom are purely economic refugees. Some percentage of these people have relatives who are American citizens. In many cases, presumably, the parents are illegal, the children are legal, and I'm sure there are dozens of permutations of legal/illegal relationships.

Think about the nature of the police state that would have to be developed in the coming years in an effort to deport all of those who are deemed to be illegal. Think about the resources that would have to be diverted from other areas - law enforcement, border security, port safety, etc. - in order to investigate and then deport the 12 million illegal aliens. Sorry about being a bit simplistic, but consider this. Let's say, starting tomorrow, the "System" can begin the process of deporting 1,000 people every work day. Arithmetic. 12 million illegals, 1,000 deported daily, roughly 250 work days. Assuming no further illegal aliens make their way to the US, the last illegal will be gone in 48 years. And then consider the social and ethical implications of destroying families and then the impact on federal and state resources to address their needs.

Yes, I know, they shouldn't be here. It's not right. They're breaking the law. But it is what it is, and, as much as we all might like to bid them farewell and maybe even drive them to the border, the cost is too great, financially, emotionally, socially, ethically, politically. You name it.

As for the guest worker program, that should die a horrible and immediate death. That's nothing but a sop to big business, allowing the formalization of an underclass that will always be underpaid and unrepresented. Sure, go ahead and try to tax them. Does taxation without representation ring any bells. This is nothing but 21st century slavery.

[PsN2Wind]

51. The 1986 amnesty program was going to solve

the problem of illegal immigration, it only exacerbated it. People decided that all they had to do was get here and hide out until another amnesty was offered and it appears they were right.
Do you think that the current amnesty (call it what you want) is going to be without cost "financially,emotionally, socially, ethically, politically"?
I see so much hypocrisy on this issue. People seem to get all choked up about the poor ILLEGAL immigrants but tell the citizen and legal residents of this country to basically just get off their fat, overpaid asses and compete. How would you like the job of going into a plant and saying to the workers, "you can work for minimum with no bennies or hit the road, we've discovered a new pool of labor"? If you don't think that will happen, you haven't witnessed the the current attitude of American business to labor.

[matt819]

52. Fine

Fine. The US fucked up. Amnesty didn't work in 1986. Illegal immigration continued through the 1990s, and it has reached what everyone seems to agree is epidemic proportion. Cheap labor was what American business was after, and they got what they wanted. Now we have the unintended, if not entirely unexpected consequences.

It sucks. No question.

But instead of just whining about it and wishing it weren't so, come up with a plan to deport 12 million illegal aliens to probably 100 different countries.

The clock is ticking.

[justice1]

53. Use the same approach, that is used for other crimes

Giving some type of immunity to the immigrant, if they are willing to testify in criminal trials of the major players involved.

[matt819]

58. Why the assumption that illegals are also criminals

What does your comment have to do with the proverbial price of cream cheese.

[justice1]

60. Now that's a classic

illegal = criminal

[matt819]

64. So come up with a plan

The reference to criminal did not seem to be illegal aliens but some other criminal activity - some idiotic comment about cooperating with authorities for better treatment. Are you living in TV world?

What would you rather do? Line 'em up and shoot 'em. Rip parents from the American citizen infants and dump them at the border? The time for your illegal = criminal comment was maybe 20-30 years ago, when perhaps, with foresight, diplomacy, and enforcement, something might have been done. But now there are 12 million of them. Glibness and disingenuousness have no place in this debate. Come up with a plan.

[PsN2Wind]

54. Anyone not agreeing with you is whining

You aren't worth debating.

[matt819]

65. So there! The bad man called me names. I'm taking my toys and going home

Give me a break. We are well beyond wishes here. Gosh, can't we just send 'em home? Why don't we just round 'em up. Whether I call it whining or intelligent dissent is not the point. Twelve. Million. People. Come up with a plan to deal with this that doesn't start and end with "Round 'em up" or "Send 'em home" or "They should have just stayed where they belonged" and then maybe we can debate this. But the one liners and the glibness are a waste of time.

[PsN2Wind]

71. I was trying to be nice

but you persist so: I see you're observing all this from a distant of couple of thousand miles. I'm sure you understand the problem because of the on-going problems with those darn French Canadians that you share a border with. A border that could be patrolled with a boy scout troop. Where I sit 35 miles north of Nogales so I would have no idea of what is going on.
I was going to check the actual distance but my atlas says you don't have a city significant enough to put the Mileage too.
So that and your inability to put up a buck to buy a little gold star but instead come here to play on someone else's dime convinces me you don't really know of what you speak and won't pay to play, so play with yourself.
Adios Mateo!!

[Yupster]

57. I don't really understand the argument

that if we can't deport all 12 million illegal immigrants at once then we shouldn't try to deport any.

Shoplifting is a huge crime today and we all know that we're never going to catch all the shoplifters, but I've never heard anyone suggest we shouldn't try to catch as many as we can.

I guess I just don't understand that argument.

[matt819]

59. Are you all being disingenous?

Your shoplifter argument is pointless. First of all, I would be hard-pressed to accept the notion that somehow there are 12 million shoplifters who have to dealt with in some manner.

Apart from that, there are mechanisms in place nationwide to deal with these sorts of criminal issues. They are state and local matters best adjudicated by a system already set up for such matters. On top of that, usually the first responder, so to speak, in a shoplifting incident is store security, which may very well handle the matter internally - slap on the wrist, return the goods, refund the money, etc. Case closed. Doesn't even reach the courts.

And if the police are called in, once again, there are mechanisms in place to adjudicate these matters expeditiously. There are thousands of local police officers and local district attorneys, magistrates, etc., all ready, willing and able to deal with these sorts of crimes (and worse, of course). There are backlogs, certainly, but the system is in place.

Dealing with illegal immigration is a federal matter requiring the intervention of a range of federal law enforcement services and judicial services that are already stressed and would be crushed by the demand to deport 12 million illegal aliens. And if you're going to undertake this effort, anything less than a comprehensive effort is doomed to fail, and we'll be having this same discussion in another 20 years, thought the number of illegals will be 40 million.

So, stop being disingenous and living in a fantasy land of coulda, woulda, shoulda. Come up with a plan that makes some sense and has some chance of succeeding.

[orleans]

63. bake them all cupcakes

we have not been enforcing our laws--they're here, their children are here, their children are americans, raise the minimum wage for all of us, help mexico get on its feet, and if you don't want people here illegally then patrol the boarders better, and enforce laws. and start fining corporations who hire illegals ($40,000 per person)--for those already here ..... no fine. amnesty i guess. and just start enforcing the laws!

my daughter said it drives her crazy when she hears people saying to send them all back--let them go home. she said to me the other night that the kids are americans and this IS their home. then she asked: are we suppose to separate the families? send the parents home and let the kids stay here? (ah yes, my daughter. that is the family values of the repukie party)

[aeroamerica]

70. Fine employers $10,000 per offense and Mexicans will soon return

to Mexico.

However, that would necessitate some changes to the practice of making it so easy for Americans not to work.

[Maestro]

74. It's threads like these that make me think

there is an undercurrent of racism involved here. I am not referring to the OP but to some of the respondents. I have a better idea. Let's deport those that knowingly hire undocumented workers which in turn attract more. The immigrant is not to blame folks. Some compassion would seem appropriate. Sometimes this places resembles Freep Republic with some of the most uncompassionate posts that show such a lack of forethought that can only be attributed to an excess of reichwing kool-aid drinking or racism or both. It's pathetic. My idea to deport the employers is about as practical as mass deportation. :eyes:

[Theodolite]

76. Anchor Babies are US Citizens

Few replies have touched on what I consider to be the most important aspect of the posters question. The children of illegal immigrants are US citizens, they cannot be deported. I saw one figure that 40% of the undocumented population are parents of legal US citizens. If there are 12 million, then almost 5 million are parents. I don't think we could easily deport the parents, it would just be too ugly and who would care for these children. Thus the 5 million parents have a very good reason to stay.

That leaves 7 million to deport. If a mass deportation would appear to be coming ( I don't think it will happen) as many of the 7 million as possible would become expecting parents. We could see 1.5 million+ new anchor babies being born in a year to prevent their parents deportation. I saw a figure claiming that currently there are a little under 400,000 new US citizens being born annually to undocs. I'm all for granting full amnesty to nearly all who are currently here. It is the next 20 to 50 million that want to come that worry me.

If there was an effort for mass deportation, I think we would only be able to remove several hundred thousand a year. After a year or two the effort would be seen as foolhardy and unproductive. It would be abandoned. I don't mean to use the term anchor babies derisively.

[YouthInAsia]

79. Then they can leave with their illegal parents.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

84. And you'll be the first to welcome them back as adults?

Now that they don't speak English or have a decent education?

[YouthInAsia]

86. Sure.

[Theodolite]

88. Deporting toddlers and babies

In a mass deportation hundreds of thousands of children might die. Imagine the newly deported families dumped on the streets of the very poor cities of central america. They will have no place to live, no food, and little money. The children will be introduced into a much more dirty environment than their immune systems have ever seen. I really think that 10% could die in the first few years. Are you willing to send these babies off to an environment where many thousands would die? They are us citizens you know.

[YouthInAsia]

90. But their parents broke the law. So we should excuse the law

being broken? What other laws should we excuse? If Im hungry should I be allowed to rob a grocery store? How bout a bank? I'm broke too. Should I be permitted to rob a bank then? Think I'd be forgiven and sent on my merry way?

[Theodolite]

94. I think you are saying that

you dont care that they are US citizens and you don't care if they die from disease. Since their parents broke the law any fate that befalls these children is of no concern to you. Why send them back, I think the children of the illegals should absolutely stay, so we don't get into this kind of scenario. The children stay, their parents stay, and any siblings under 18 years should stay.

[YouthInAsia]

95. So keep the children and kick the parents out.

Then youre gonna be mad that I said that. This is a no win situation in which the american people are getting screwed.

[mondo joe]

81. I don't support mass deportation, but if it were to be in effect it would

be quite possible to remove the "anchor babies" as well with the promise that they could return to the US ifthey wish when they come of age.

[Theodolite]

85. What if the parents refuse

In most cases probably the parents are going to have very little money, no job or prospect of one, and no place to live when they are deported. They probably will do whatever they can to keep the child in the US. I just don't think you can send the children back when they are US citizens. The parents could put the child up for adoption. We are talking about 3-4 million children, many of them under 6 years of age, and 400,000 new ones each year.

[mondo joe]

89. They can surrender the child for adoption. I doubt most parents would do

that, since so many people choose to have children even living in conditions as bad or worse than they'd face in deportation.

[Theodolite]

91. I'm not so sure

Most families have a surplus of children, I think they would see leaving some of them behind as their path to returning. They often leave children behind when they come here. I don't think it will be hard for them. It would be easier to reestablish themselves in their former countries without the burden of children to care for, they would hope to reunite later.

[mondo joe]

92. Well we'd just have to see. Not that it's likely to come to it.

[Theodolite]

96. I agree

They aren't going anywhere. I don't think people have thought through the details of a mass deportation. It would be horrible for big business and the stock market.

On edit, I removed the cherokee reference.

[flyarm]

87. well i would bet it was alot more than 12 million if you go back a few

generations!!

and you can look at poles, chechs, irish german, throw in some canadians, french..romanians, russians...and on and on and on.........

fly

[Zorra]

93. Why is everyone so upset about being colonized by Mexico? n/t