The circumcision poll. To cut or not to cut.

[Twist_U_Up]

There has been a nice long thread involving circumcision so I thought I would grab the topic and throw out a poll. cut or uncut

also a bit of humor thrown in:

When I was born I did not have any eye lids. So when the doctor circumcised me he took the foreskin and made me eye lids.

Now people call me cockeye.

[Buck Turgidson]

1. It's like what the rabbi said ---

"Oy! It von't be long now!"

[RobertSeattle]

2. Um, we are talking about MALE BABIES, correct?

:evilgrin:

[Twist_U_Up]

3. oh sure.......

make this even more of a wedge issue lol yes boys

[dipsydoodle]

4. If it was stopped

so the off cuts couldn't be planted then surely there wouldn't be any Republicans in the future.

[sam sarrha]

5. Genital MUTULATION of Babies... Barbaric, why does gOD want dick meat ??

[RobertSeattle]

7. But what about the sex angle?

Do males who have been circumcised after better or worse overall sexual satisfaction than those that aren't? (I dunno!)

[sam sarrha]

22. well you lose about 35% of the nerve endings on the penis, the woman loses

out too..

so it seems you would mutulate a babies genitals for what purpose...??

[cynatnite]

39. I've had sex with both cut and uncut men...

By my experience, I couldn't tell the difference. Had a marvelous time. :)

[Zookeeper]

6. Other.

Parents should be trusted to make the best decision they can with the information they have.

[cynatnite]

33. I second that n/t

[MsFlorida]

8. Barbaric

Let's torture all of our little babies. Maybe we should dock their tails and crop their ears too.

[mconvente]

10. what's wrong with circumcision?

Why is it "barbaric"? I was circumcised at birth and I'm 100% A-OK. Why do people not trust doctors...

[HereSince1628]

13. But then you don't know just what you are missing, do you?

I think you have a glans penis with a dried surface that rubs on under clothes all day long. I have one of those, too. Ever wonder if keeping it in a lubricated sheath maybe didn't have a purpose?

[mconvente]

18. With all due respect...

This is pretty rediculous. I personally thank all DU members who are faithfully adherent to the Progressive Movement, but that doesn't mean we all agree on other issues (as here is the case).

"If I've never had something, I can't miss it." I use that motto in my life a lot of times to not worry about what "The Jones'" have. It can be transformed to this question. I've never had a sheath over the head of my penis, so I don't miss having one.

Personally, I've never had any genital discomfort of any kind, even being circumcised. Plus, I have an appendix but it's vestigal, so it doesn't matter if that is removed. Granted, the lubricating sheath is most likely not vestigal, but it's not as important as you're heart or lungs or anything like that.

I'm not sure if I was given pain killers, but if not, well it's not like I know about it now, so to me it makes no difference. If it were my son, I would probably want some pain killers for him, but I don't see anything wrong with having a male infant circumcised.

It's not mutilation to me - last time I checked (which was recently because we did the reproduction chapter - anatomy and hormones - for my Bio 102 lecture class in college a month ago), the scientific diagram of the penis is it circumcised.

So what's the big deal?

Many of the progressive members here don't want to government in their lives dealing with abortion and contraception - and I agree 100%. So why would you consider me a "mutilator" if I decide - with my future wife - to have our son circumcised. Mind your own damn business.

[HereSince1628]

28. You are of course entitled to your own interpretations of your

personal experiences.

You recently did biology 102 and did an entire chapter on human reproduction.
I have a PHD in biology, Texas A&M, and I have taught nonmajors, upper level course for biology majors and also graduate courses on human reproductive physiology and behavior. But I do indeed recognize that personal opinion is the one last and unassailable domain of acceptable solipsism.

Neither of our educational experiences can withstand the right of another person to hold a contrary personal postion. You are entitled to any opinion you claim merely as your own. Similarly I have the freedom to have a personal opinion on male infantile circumcision as a form of culturally imposed genital mutilation without consent. Of course, that does not in anyway suggest however that all personal opinions are equally informed or culturally correct.

In my human reproduction class protcol and common decency to the cutlturally mixed group of people enrolled dictate that I restrain myself from comments on culturally based goodnesses or badnesses of various aspects of human sexuality including circumcision because such judgments are peripheral to biology per se.

I am hardly so constrained in a response to a posting on a poll on DU. Indeed another person's posting on DU is an something of an invitation for another person to comment. I believe that is why each post has a reply button.

Don't you think your biology book shows pictures of male anatomy that are culturally acceptable within our society? Is our society really always "right?"

Even if it was a photograph of a typical American male's genitalia it would likely be circumcised, but that doesn't mean that the depiction is the natural biological state of affairs, or that it has universal inherent goodness.

Wouldn't an intellectually curious person wonder what was missed when a body part is missing?

Isn't a socially conscious person going to ponder if it ok for me to impose his or her will on another person's body, even if that body is their child's? Is parenthood simply unchallengable in its right to cut away part of a family member's body?

BTW. I've looked at pictures in many different authors biology books and in many editions of the same authors' books. Most of the books I've taught from will on close inspection show the glans of the male penis with the preputial tissue somewhat posterior from its natural position. That is to say the prepuce is shown but not quite encompassing the glans.

I have always considered something of an artistic compromise between the natural and cultural realities of my students. They can relate to these pictures because they aren't that different from their body, or bodies they have seen. But in most biology textbooks the prepuce is typically shown because it is an anatomical reality and as such it is typically mentioned as a part of male external genitalia.

[wicket]

14. Do you trust the American Academy of Pediatrics?

http://www.aap.org/advocacy/archives/marcircum.htm

After analysis of almost 40 years of available medical research on circumcision, the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) issued new recommendations today stating that the benefits are not significant enough for the AAP to recommend circumcision as a routine procedure. The new policy statement was published in this month's issue of Pediatrics, the journal of the AAP.

[sam sarrha]

23. it is GENITAL MUTULATION on a BABY.. Pro-Choice are you..??

[preciousdove]

9. If I had a vote:

Having watched the procedure on #2 (no anesthetic) son but not #1, if #3 had been born (miscarriage 5th month due to Lyme Disease) he would not have had the procedure.

For those of religious or hygiene persuasion both parents should have to watch a procedure and they both must agree and pain killer MUST be used.

I was not able to talk my #2 son out of the procedure on my grandson, he demurred to his wife who went with her mother's ideas who had never witnessed the procedure. I was told pain killer is now used.

[One_of_8]

15. I know I won't change anyone's mind

But yes, a topical anesthetic is used nowadays. I did have my son circumcised and was present during the procedure, which was brief. He did not cry. I know some feel I have mutilated my son to meet society's norms. I considered both choices, and made my decision. Perhaps some day my son will be angry with me, but for now he seems fine.

[HereSince1628]

11. Genital mutilation is an attack on smegma and helpless male children who

would grow up to exude it.

Me thinks Americans' commitment to infant male circumcision is primarily (I am aware of other reasons) about a culture-wide misunderstanding of smegma. Smegma is a secretion of glands associated with the prepuce, it sometimes forms cottage cheesy appearing masses on the glans penis of an intact male. Smegma is in fact a harmless secretion and as you might imagine a successful end product of evolutionary selection.

Genital mutilation to control smegma is akin to cutting off babies' ears because they can hold secreted wax later in life.

[stellanoir]

12. Woh do I ever have opinions about this one

Having had the good fortune to encounter several uncircumcised individuals I've always had a big bad attitude about it.

Then I encountered a renegade Hippie Hasid who dragged me to a bris much to my dismay. The moyle (sp?) was a masterful magician and the baby didn't even cry. The ritual was performed in the child's 8th day of life when they are allegedly more capable of processing such a thing due to the endorphins developed over the first week after birth.

Then I later attended another bris that was a horror show and the baby and mum were miserable.

Otherwise it's like "welcome to the world. . .whack !!!"

We're not in the desert anymore folks, at least most on this board are not.

There sadly is often an incredible disconnect between the brain and scrotum of those unspiritually circumcised. IMHO

So my son was thankfully not altered.

flame away

[BR_Parkway]

16. I had the Dr do my son because that's what the family did, not alot

of thought put into it. Later on, having talked to men who weren't cut, I've changed my position and feel it should be left up to the child to decide when they are old enough.

I guess it's like the death penalty, they can always go forward, but they can never go backwards.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

17. *Shrug* I no longer have a foreskin in this fight.

Removed soon after making my appearance in the world. I can't recall ever missing it.

[mconvente]

19. exactly

I also don't feel that I would be crumbling under society's pressure or whatever in feeling that I need to have my son circumcised. It's just a procedure done after birth - end of story.

[michael_1166]

21. For what logical reason?

I can't see one.

You don't snip off other stuff from babies, why the foreskin?
What would we think about a religion that wants the babies' earlobes being snipped off, and its nostrils being slashed right after birth - nothing life-threatening, but mutilations just like snipping off the foreskin?

Wait until the baby is a young man and can decide by himself if he wants his penis being mutilated for no reason at all.

[stepnw1f]

20. I'm Glad I Still Have Mine

and if both my better half and I have a boy, we have already agreed not to circumcize. I just don't see the purpose for it, besides tradition or religious reasons.

[rucky]

24. Is there a moile in the house? n/t

[Crunchy Frog]

25. I don't understand why they don't cut the toenails off

shortly after birth. They really have no function, and they can cause all kinds of problems. Best to get rid of them before the kid gets used to having them. Also the breasts of male babies. I can't think of anything more useless than male breasts, and they can get cancer in them. The amount of breast tissue in a newborn is tiny, so snip it off. Maybe the inner labia of girls as well. Mine don't seem to do much, other than collect gunk. They can be quite uncomfortable in tight jeans or a bicycle seat as well. I don't really see why they're not considered to be as disposable as male foreskin.

We should probably just do a society wide survey of all parts of the human body that could be considered useless and potentially troublesome, and then do complete surgical makeovers of all newborns, subject to the parents agreement of course.

We should also consider allowing/encouraging tribal markings, scarifications, tatoos etc, based on the parents cultural backgrounds or beliefs. May as well get it all over with before the kid is old enough to know what's going on.

[Lisa0825]

31. LMAO!!!

Great post! :rofl:

[sendero]

26. I gave this some serious thought..

... many years back when my 2 sons were born. Back then (15 years ago therabouts), there were already strong doubts about the necessity of the procedure.

I don't think there is a compelling reason to do it or not do it. I'm circumcised, and I think I prefer it that way.

I didn't vote because the is no "whatever" answer. One thing I'm sure of, I would not want it done at any time other than infancy. I can't see how anyone with penis could vote "wait until the kid's 12 and do it then" :)

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BooScout]

30. Oh get real....

They are not nasty, smelly germ traps.....they are quite nice actually and frankly........from a woman's point of view.......they feel a hell of a lot more natural.....not to mention nicer. OK...a circumsized male may not miss his foreskin......but frankly I think it was put there more to pelase the female. JMHO.

Why mess with what nature gave ya?

[cynatnite]

35. Different strokes for different folks n/t

[texastoast]

32. Excuse me?

How are they nasty, smelly germ traps? Maybe when the whole idea was formed when people lived in the desert and didn't bathe for 30 days at a time, the smegma would definitely get a little ripe. But finally we learned daily bathing is a good thing.

And this is really a poor, poor argument with women.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lisa0825]

41. I don't think it is just personal opinion...

it is more likely social conditioning causing you to HAVE that opinion, or possibly a negative experience that you then generalize to apply to all uncut men. I have known several women who had never been with an uncircumcized man until a certain point in their lives, and they were a bit taken aback by the difference at first, but eventually either had no difference in preference or preferred it natural. Everyone I know who claims to not like them either has never expereinced (bases it on social norm/anecdotal evidence) or had a bad experience with someone who wasn't clean or wasn't a good lover.

In my experience, I think it makes EVERYTHING better! Less friction, a different sensation, etc.

[Sinti]

29. This is kind of a religious obligation, yes?

A couple of days after my son was born, much to my surprise, the doctor came into the hospital room and inquired if I was going to have my son circumcised. No sooner had the question left the doctors lips than my son began wailing at the top of his lungs, oh the agony. I said no, the child was silent. End of story. Maybe some children don't make their wishes known quite so vocally, however.

[texastoast]

34. Good for you

I had to watch a film of a baby being circumcised in our birthing class (Bradley, not LaMaze).

It was a hoot to watch all the guys just curl into themselves, all protective of their crotches.

And I've heard that you don't forget anything--it just gets repressed, but under hypnosis all those memories can be recalled. Ewww.

[Twist_U_Up]

36. heres another question

can a cut penis actually reach its full size potential ?

I mean if its uncut it gives more room to sprout.

just sayin

[cynatnite]

38. Yes

It's the foreskin being taken off...not any part of the actual penis itself.

[Elwood P Dowd]

40. The republican party is slowing be circumcised

one d!ck head at a time.

[AbbyR]

42. Didn't have my son circumcised

I figured I wasn't going to chop off any other body parts, so...
Anyway, he was certainly free to do it later in life if he wanted to. He's almost 27 now, and if he's had it done, he hasn't mentioned it to me.

[pinto]

43. Locking.

As presented, the original post implies a sexual content that doesn't seem germain to a discussion on circumcision.