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Hillary Clinton has a challenger in the primary for her Senate seat.

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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 09:31 PM
Original message
Hillary Clinton has a challenger in the primary for her Senate seat.


His name is Jonathan Tasini and he is challenging Hillary Clinton in the primary. Not an easy task with all the fund-raising she has done. I REALLY like what I am reading and hearing about Mr. Tasini and wondered what my fellow DUers thoughts were. For the past 25 years he has been a union leader and organizer, a social activist, and a commentator and writer on work, labor and the economy.

Here is a link:
http://www.tasinifornewyork.com /

I particularly like his stance on IMPEACHMENT:
Jonathan supports the impeachment of the president and the vice-president. He also supports the censure proposal by Senator Russ Feingold and, as the Senator from New York, would work hard to rally support for Feingold and his proposal.

While impeachment is a very serious step that should not have been trivialized the way it was during the last presidential administration, it is also an indispensable part of a system of checks and balances that sustains our democracy. When strong evidence exists of the most serious crimes, we must use impeachment or lose the ability of the legislative branch to compel the executive branch to obey the law.

This is not a question of supporting one party over another, but of upholding the rule of law over both of them. Jonathan supports impeachment not to promote a party, but to protect our democracy.

President Bush and Vice-President Cheney deserve to be impeached because their actions rise to the Constitutional threshold of “high crimes and misdemeanors”:

1. Intentionally misleading Congress and the public regarding the threat from Iraq in order to justify a war against Iraq, and intentionally conspiring with others to defraud Congress in this regard.

cont'd...
http://www.tasinifornewyork.com/node/183

He also wrote a book:



INTRODUCTION

When I was a young boy, I once asked my father what the difference was between a recession and a depression. He replied with the now over-used cliché: a recession is when the economy goes sour for your neighbor, it's a depression when it hits your pocketbook.

The essential point of the cliché is that how one looks at the economy depends on one's vantage point. Every day we are bombarded with facts and figures that tell us what to think about the economy yet we often have no way of knowing who is telling the truth, where they get their information and, more important, what are their own biases. Over time, we begin incorporating into our personal language and way of thinking a whole set of ideas--for example, the need to be "competitive" in the global economy--that may in fact be harmful to us and the people around us.

Ordinary Americans are angry and confused by the conventional economic analysis espoused by pundits and politicians. We simply do not believe what we hear on the evening news or read in newspapers because what journalists and pundits tell us doesn't fit with their own daily experience. When most Americans are working for less money and are deeper in debt, why is Dan Rather so excited when he announces a rise in the Gross Domestic Product (GDP)? Indeed, what does an increase in the GDP mean for most people? Is it good or bad? We have good cause to have these emotions.

In part, we tend to forget that economics doesn't just happen. The economy we live in is not an independent, unbiased current, nor a natural phenomena like the sun rising every day or the ebb and flow of the ocean's tide. It functions because of decisions made by political and financial people or institutions, many of whom are unknown or only vaguely familiar to the American public. The traditional labels of "liberal" or "conservative" do not explain the more important factor shaping the economy: self-interest.

cont'd...
http://www.workinglife.org/Cake.htm

And he HATES Wal-Mart as much as I:

Wal-Mart's Free Market Fallacy
Jonathan Tasini - TomPaine.com

Conservatives run around singing the praises of Wal-Mart, proclaiming it an American success story. None other than Dick Cheney calls the Beast of Bentonville his favorite company. But what I love about Wal-Mart is the way the company highlights the phoniness of two centerpieces of the conservative movement's sloganeering propaganda: the so-called "free market" and "local control."

In the mythical world of the free market-for which Wal-Mart supposedly serves as a shining example-prices for goods and labor should rise and fall based on the magic of the "invisible hand" of market supply and demand. In the nirvana of the so-called free market, workers can sell themselves for whatever the market can bear.

So let me introduce you to a place called China. Wal-Mart - in its never-ending quest to promote its heartland, Arkansan family values - is a willing customer of the Chinese labor system, where people work 12- to 18-hour days, earn meager wages and have no days of rest-all for the honor of laboring inside factories full of chemical toxins and hazardous machines, leading to sickness and death at the highest rates in world history. Wal-Mart says its business with China is just a virtue of the free market.

Putting aside the morality of forcing people to work in slave-like conditions, the so-called free market does not exist in China when it comes to wages. China artificially suppresses wages by anywhere from 47 to 85 percent below what they should be, according to the AFL-CIO's complaint about China's labor policies filed with the United States Trade Representative last year. With Wal-Mart as its willing customer, an authoritarian regime ruthlessly warps the market for wages by enforcing a system that controls where people can work and imprisons and tortures people who attempt to organize real unions or strike. Maybe the rock-bottom labor costs are really behind Wal-Mart's slogan "always low prices," but the company is certainly not an example of how to win in a free market economy.

more...
http://www.banderasnews.com/0504/edat-freemarket.htm
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NJ Democrats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. It doesn't matter
This guy doesn't have a chance.
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Immediately so deeply negative.
Why doesn't he have a chance? I honestly am looking for your thoughts and not a quick dismissal of the man. Thank you! :hi:
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Karenca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I dont think he's putting down the candidate.
I think he thinks noone has a chance against Hillary
I tend to agree.
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Based of the money she's raised?
Edited on Tue Mar-28-06 09:40 PM by im10ashus
Because I don't really think she is much of a Democrat anymore. :shrug:
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Karenca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Neither do I
but she certainly has the money.
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. And we have come to this again.
He or she with the most money wins. It makes me want to :cry:!
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Karenca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Yes, it's so sad...
And your guy sounds reeally good. ;(
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. But it's statistically true. Your chances of victory increase with money
In this system, it is statistically correct to say that the game is stacked in favor of the poorest candidates, and if your constituency is largely rooted in the working poor and those who need help the most, you're going to have to work very very hard to raise the same amount of cash your incumbent can raise.

Is it easier to lobby 10,000 poor workers for 5 dollars per individual for a total of 50,000? Or 25 wealthy businessmen who own radio stations, the newspapers, and local tv networks who are each willing to give you a check of 2,000 for a total of 50,000?
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Good point.
Or points, I should say. There's still time between now and September to get his name out there. Perhaps there ARE 25 wealthy business men or women who would like to see some change? :shrug:
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-29-06 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #15
83. he needs to get on the statewide ballot first
I have not seen any effort on his part to do this.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #83
97. .
Edited on Thu Mar-30-06 05:04 PM by Stephanie
.
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brianf Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #83
100. Re: He needs to get on the statewide ballot
Guys... petitioning doesn't even START to June 5th, so NO ONE gets on the ballot until July.

-B
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #100
104. welcome to DU!
Petition drives need to be organized. Hillary Clinton / Eliot Spitzer will have the state machine behind them and will easily get on the ballot. I would think that having an actual primary challenger on the ballot would be a progressive coup in NYS. I am not even sure that Hillary had a state wide primary opponent when she ran in 2000. I know a NYC lawyer ran against her - I don't remember if he got on the ballot.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. Does anyone know what her plans are for 2008?
Who is a Democrat? I'm a Liberal first, registered as a Democrat for voting purposes. The tendency here is, as Tweety does when ever I happen to brush by his show, complain about Hillary. If you lived in NY state, you'd see that in spite of the horrific restrictions put on earmarks by Democrats, she's garnered the respect of most of the state. And it always seems like the only time you hear anything is when she's caught in an RNC sound bite.

Let's wait and see if she runs as President for 2008. I think much depends on the outcome of 2006.

And maybe in 2012 Jon Corzine will be at the plate when he finishes cleaning up NJ.
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Orangepeel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. what's her approval rating in New York?
I know that it is quite high overall. I assume it is high among Democrats as well, although I don't know that.
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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-29-06 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #16
80. surveyusa.com (3/20) 61% approve, 36% disapprove, 4% not sure
Edited on Wed Mar-29-06 05:21 PM by Mabus
http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=200ee3b9-d679-4b9a-82a4-fc971c8910cf

on edit: Here's how she's fared for the past 11 months - pretty much in the 60%+ but down from 64% a couple of months ago. http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollTrack.aspx?g=77ca4b7e-ec24-4213-a4d6-f5053467ebf4
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Retrograde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #80
128. at least Ms Clinton knows where Upstate is
dredging up my knee-jerk Western New York conditioned reaction wrt Tasini: another NYCer who thinks the world ends at the Hudson (and no, I don't consider Poughkeepsie and Westchester county upstate. I used to live there and commuted to Manhattan.)

I read his web page mentioned in another post. I'm not impressed, least of all by the so-called economic platform. Fortunately, I don't have to vote for or against him.

BTW, has the GOP named any candidates yet? Google's not helpful, and the GOP site seems more interested in getting donations than in providing any information.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #128
129. Well I live in upper Ulster County, too far from NYC for most commuters
Tasini has been up here. And on three of the issues that most Democrats in the rural area around me care about he has taken clear cut strong positions that are winning praise. Tasini opposes placing Casinos in the Catskills. Casinos tend to destroy the existing character of communities for many miles around them. Gambling addiction and alcoholism goes up. Traffic congestion and air pollution goes up. People around here don't want them but big economic interests keep pushing them. A casino proposed for Saugerties includes plans for a massive 6 story Parking garage, an arena that would hold about 16,000 people, a huge hotel complex, and a massive Casino of course. Clinton has refused to take a stand on the Casinos when officers from my local Democratic Party Club tried to get a position our of her office on them.

There is also a proposed mega resort complex that a local developer wants to put near Belleayre Mountain. It includes two massive hotels, and two new 18 hole golf courses, and it would be built by lopping the top off of a mountain. This is right in the heart of New York Cities watershed by the way, in case anyone cares. We had serious flooding winter before this one due to top soil erosion and this proposed project would amplify that problem significantly. Tasini is on record opposing the current plans, but Clinton so far has refused comment. Our progressive Congressman, Maurice Hinchey, has a reasonable alternative development plan that Tasisi is willing to back.

Indian Point Nuclear Power plant is approaching mandatory retirement age, with it's 30 year license about to expire, but the owners are petitioning for a new extension of that license. This is a plant within radiation release area of New York City with one of the worst records in the industry. Tasini has already been working with local opponents of Indian Point. but Clinton has kept an extremely low profile on this matter despite requests from local Democrats that she get involved in the fight against Indian Point.

I can't talk about other areas in New York State, but far as I'm concerned Tasini is three for three on some of the local issues we care about around here.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #129
130. These local issues may not be important to many, but here's the thing:
Tasini was willing to take a clear cut stand on them when we asked him about them. There is some risk involved in taking a clear cut stand, you might alienate a potential voter by coming down strong on one side of a question. It's not that Hillary Clinton is disagreeing with our concerns in these cases, it's that she's refused to give her position on them, or soft peddled to the point that she might as well not have a position.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #130
132. I just talked myself into contributing to Tasini's campaign
After just writing my reply about Tasini talking about issues I care about in my part of New York, it's clear to me Hillary is more likely to do so also with Jonathan running as her Democratic Primary opponent. It should be a good clean campaign, on the issues, not personalities. Jonathan can use a few bucks to get his message out.

Here's the donation page: https://secure.actblue.com/contribute/direct/9135?successuri=http://www.tasinifornewyork.org/thankyou
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-01-06 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #128
133. From what I am reading about him...
...he is for ending the war, providing health care to all and creating economic rules that put the worker before the corporation.

These are policies that appeal to the truck driver in Buffalo, the farmer in Rochester, and the lawyer in Manhattan (and to people all across the country).
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itzamirakul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 06:59 AM
Response to Reply #16
116. I live in NYC and most EVERYONE that I talk with feels the same way
about Hillary as I do. They HATE HER for her DINO stance.

A lot of us used to support both she and Bill and now are totally disgusted with both of them.

BTW, she was HANDED the job of Senator in 2000. She didn't have to work for it at all.
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electropop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-29-06 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
78. I'd love to see her replaced with a Democrat.
I ruefully question his prospects for purely financial and power-politics reasons, but I would like to see him take the seat.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. Then it doesn't matter if he gets my primary vote, does it?
Because I've been looking for a way to get thru to Senator Clinton.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
21. It matters on the issues
It doesn't matter to me whether or not Jonathan Tasini "has a chance" or not in this race. Tasini has a chance if enough people give him a chance, but regardless, this is one Senate Seat that is not going Republican in 2006 no matter who wins a Democratic Party Primary between Tasini and Clinton. Have you seen how big a mess the Republicans are in this year in New York? It's laughable:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2539704

How important is having the full range of issued openly debated to you? Single Payer Health Insurance? The Israel Palestine Peace process? Out Sourcing of Jobs and "Free Trade"? The Iraq War and how we got into it and how we get out of it? Smart, labor intensive, environmental friendly economic growth? This is a primary challange, not a challange to Hillary in the New York general election.
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. EXACTLY the attitude I like to see here.
Let's see someone take on these corporate DLCers. Win or lose, we need to challenge these middle-of-the-road Senator's who are thinking they can glide to victory without answering the tough questions. Let's hit back with our votes in the PRIMARY!!!

:hi:
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-29-06 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
85. He may not bve able to take her Senate Seat,
..but he WILL force her to defend her positions on the Iraq Occupation and cozy relationship with her Big Money Corporate Backers and the DLC.
THAT will be a victory.

Having a REAL Democrat challenge her seat may actually encourage Hillary to move to the Liberal side of the Party. Without a challenge, she will remain comfortably in the arms of the Republican Lites spending her time and campaign on non-issues like video games, and splitting the difference on Women's issues.

I am sending money to Jonathan Tasini's campaign.
http://www.tasinifornewyork.com/

The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

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KurtNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-29-06 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
86. Could you pick up your foot please? I think you are crushing hope.
It is not always about winning the office. It would be a small but positive step if this guy can at least raise some of the right issues and get some ink. Plenty of people have run campaigns that were doomed but they did so to highlight one issue (eg. Howard Stern for Governor (yuck!)). Occasionally these kinds of challenges get the mainstream candidate to modify their position, eg. to take a step or two toward their challenger's position.

Yes the guy doesn't have a chance to win office but the issues he champions DESERVE to be championed. People buy lottery tickets every day by the millions and they don't have a chance either really but they have hope and that is worth it.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
7. Well, Jonathan, that depends on how I define "win" in the market.
If I'm a Walton and a shareholder in the corporation and I check my portfolio and see I have 500,000 shares that will pay a dividend of 1.25/share for the year, I just made 625,000 dollars for myself just for exploiting prison labor in China. I consider myself as having "won" the game, especially if my stock is worth roughly 47 dollars today. My net worth is roughly 23,500,000.

I'm sorry, but the money is simply too good not to do business with one-party dictatorships that slaughter thousands of its own citizens. The profit margins are too good to stop exploiting people. You see, the whole point of my existence is to get other people to work for me instead of working hard myself. Why do it for yourself when you can get 2 illegal aliens, 4 Indian workers, and 6 Chinese workers to do it for you for wages that are just high enough so people can't charge you with using slave labor? :sarcasm:
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. Thank you so much...
...for your sarcasm emoticon. I was starting to worry. :7
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
9. Good, if he gets the air time to make a case for impeachment. The
right wing anti-Hillarys will accidentally learn something.
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Greeby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
10. How about instead of being defeatist
We persuade NY DU'ers to get out and vote for Tasini in the primary on 12 September? :think:
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Hmmmmm!
Now there's a thought. :-) :hi:
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. even if he's a long shot
He could be a potent message bearer...
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. And we need to hear the message.
Because Hillary isn't speaking it.
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Talismom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
11. I'm so fed up with the corporatist behavior of both my senators and my
lousy so-called democratic congressman Eliot Engel that I've joined the Bronx chapter of the progressive democrats of america (www.pdamerica.org) and recommend that other NYers, as well as those in other states, look into their nearest chapters and start working. Tasini is bright and decent and very worthy of support and he's got mine!

Getting up and participating in saving a democracy is a lot more encouraging than the feelings expressed in the first response you got. After all, working at the grassroots 30-40 years ago got the Repuke party into the hands of real extremists. I don't think it's impossible, with a lot of dedicated effort and the patience needed to keep yer eyes on the very worthy goals of real, mainstream, progressive democrats, that we retake our party in my life-time. At the very least, a real fight could show that Hilary could eventually, or even sooner than expected, be facing the kind of challenges that Joe Lieberman is up against. She and the others who've been hob-knobbing inside the belway seem to need a real reminder of who they are supposed to be representing and I'm hungry to send her just such a message!

Get going dems! The g-ddammed party is OURS not the DLCs/corporatists/fascists.
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. Thanks Talismom!!!
We definitely need to get someone who is republican-lite. I was hoping to get more information from DU and you are certainly a big help.

:yourock:
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Talismom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #18
62. Whaddaya mean "we need to get someone who is repub.-lite"? n/t
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. Ooops.
Typo. Someone who is NOT repub-lite. :7
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juajen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
112. Obviously, New York thinks she represents them well.
N/T
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jim3775 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
20. If Ciro Rodriguez can't beat Henry Cuellar than this guy has no chance
Edited on Tue Mar-28-06 10:08 PM by jim3775
I've said this before and i'll say it again. Like it or not Hillary has a high favorability rating and an huge political machine (in terms of money and on the ground staff). As far as I can tell Jonathan Tasini doesn't even have an office.

I am impressed by Tasini and I'm sure he would make a great politician but winning a primary is hard enough but against someone who has a machine as huge as Hillary's is pretty much impossible.

I am not trying to be negative, I just want to state the reality of the situation.

Edit: Also, the entire liberal blogosphere was behind Ciro Rodriguez and he lost, so far I have only seen Jonathan Tasini's name mentioned on DU.
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Thanks for your post, jim3775.
I am just getting a feel for what people think. I want to get a full opinion of him before I throw my weight behind him.

I am certain I won't be voting for Hillary unless she has some miraculous turnaround. But IMHO, she is pandering to the religious-right fundamentalists and I would rather some fresh perspective in the Senate.

:hi:
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-29-06 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #23
84. Are you carrying nominating petitions for Tansari?
He needs to get on the ballot first.
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-29-06 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #84
92. There is a group organizing that.
I am trying to find out what it is I can do. I would like to see someone, anyone, challenge Hillary. Just to have the public discourse. I will let you know what I find out.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #92
108. thanks
Imho, just getting on the ballot would be a victory.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. All coverage of Tasini is coverage for the issues he is running on
There's enough value in that enough alone for me to look forward to a New York State Primary contest between Tasini and Clinton.
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Tiggeroshii Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
26. It will be an uphill battle, but he should certainly give it a shot!
n/t
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
27. IMO seeking to knock out the strongest Dem is INSANITY
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. The strongest Dem?
How would we be knocking off the strongest Dem? She's not the strongest Dem, in my opinion. But you are obviously not in agreement. Thanks for your thoughts. :hi:
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. i could be wrong....
but i think he meant she would be the strongest dem for the general election.
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. The republican's are in serious trouble in NY.
They are faltering at every step. I think that poster meant she is our strongest democrat nationally. But I am just guessing as well. :hi:

Even if Clinton's the strongest candidate for the general election doesn't mean we can't light a fire under her ass and see how she runs, so to speak. :shrug:
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. many here at DU are more interested in bloodying her up good
Edited on Tue Mar-28-06 10:43 PM by AtomicKitten
for the general election (if she gets the Dem nod).

At least the Republicans have the good sense to evaluate a race and not throw good money after bad on a sure losing challenger and in the meantime bloodying up the stronger candidate in their own party.

But, again, that is precisely what some here want to do.

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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Have you looked at some of the republican races in recent history?
And you say "At least the Republicans have the good sense to evaluate a race and not throw good money after bad on a sure losing challenger and in the meantime bloodying up someone in their own party."

I am sorry, but I disagree. Hillary is NOT our strongest choice. She may have raised the most money and is financially the strongest, but does she REALLY represent what WE want in the Senate? :shrug:
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. yeah, well, good luck to you on that
Hillary has an excellent approval rating in NY so clearly the majority of NY'ers are getting what they want. It's called democracy.

I realize you don't like her and a good chunk of DU'ers don't like her, but the fact is most Democrats like her as is reflected in the polling data consistently.

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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #40
44. I didn't say I don't like her.
I said I don't think she is our best choice. Please don't put words in my mouth. Show me your polling numbers. Living here in NY, I can tell you, that is not the case. She polls well against the republicans here. But she is not our best, and certainly not our only, choice. Show me your polls you to which you so consistently refer.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. here you go
Edited on Tue Mar-28-06 11:10 PM by AtomicKitten
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. Oh. My. God.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #49
53. OMG!!! I can't freakin' believe it.
She actually pulled a poll out of her voluminous files (since she has worked as a political writer and has lots) and accidentally posted the wrong Clinton!

Oh my freaking' god. I like totally win the argument!!!

Enough said.
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #53
56. Oh my god!
You are so 8-years old as of this minute.
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #47
58. You've edited your link.
But that does nothing to support your argument. That article, from the venerable NY Daily News :sarcasm:, mentions nothing about a Democratic challenger in the primary. It only assumes she will get the nod. And for the record. Democrats in NYC don't read the NY Daily News. It's a repug paper. :-)
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. I'll speak personally
Jonathan Tasisni came up and spoke at our small Democratic Party Club at one of our regular meetings. I had nothing to do with inviting him, but I liked him personally, and I liked the issues he cared about. Later he spoke to a moderate size gathering in a neighboring community that I was also present for. I liked Tasini again. I liked him for he is, for what he has done with his life, for what he believes about, and how he interacts with others.

Smack me if you want, but I met this guy and I like him and I would love to see him and Hillary debate the issues that are important to Democrats, because in some cases I like what I am hearing from Tasini more than what I am hearing from Clinton. It really is that simple. The Republicans are not mounting any serious opposition to Clinton this year. They've been trotting out district attorneys from suburban counties and people with no elected record and virtually no name recognition as possible candidates to oppose Clinton, and even these people keep shooting themselves in the foot. This is a perfect opportunity for a Primary campaign on issues of substance. This Senate Seat is safe in November, and I will be voting Democratic then. Tasini, from everything I heard from him, has absolutely no interest in mud slinging. He is a serious and sincere guy running on a meaningful platform, one worth debating in my opinion.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #41
48. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. Don't really want to taunt or pacify anyone actually
Edited on Tue Mar-28-06 11:11 PM by Tom Rinaldo
If I hadn't met Tasini personally I doubt I would ever have posted on this thread. I avoid taking part in Hillary hating in general. There are some things I like about her, but I do live in New York State so Clinton is running to represent me. I tend to support the Primary system in general, except when an outside force moves in with big money sometimes. Hillary is certainly not a victim of that here. Right now I am drawn to Tasini on the issues, and I would like to see them debated.

Looking forward to 2008 it is no secret that Hillary is not who I want to win the nomination, but if she does I will work for her against the Republicans. But we get to have primaries for 2008 also. Hillary doesn't just get handed a nomination without having to run in Primaries, just because she is famous.
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #52
55. Thanks for your kind posts.
I really appreciate it. I too look forward to 2008 and that's a lot of time to fully vet any nominee for the Democratic party. Unfortunately, this thread was not started in reference to 2008.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #55
59. Which is my point also
I am a Democrat who lives in New York State and Hillary Clinton is seeking my support to run as the candidate of my Party for Senate this year, and so is Jonathan Tasini. Other people on this thread brought up 2008. My point is that I will support my Party's nominee for Senate in 2006 and for President in 2008, that I will participate in Democratic Party Primaries preceding both races, and I am not looking to bloody anyone, I just want the issues that I care about discussed by the leaders of the Party that I belong to who are asking for my vote.

2006 comes before 2008. For people living outside of New York, talking about Hillary may be all about 2008, but for me it is about who will represent me in the Senate from New York in 2007 and what issues they will embrace as their priorities.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #52
98. Go Tom go!
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. read my post
... seeking to knock off the strongest Dem which, according to polling, she most certainly is, although not in your opinion.

thanks for playing
drive through
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #32
39. "Thanks for playing. Drive through."
Don't be glib with me, sister. I would rather we stick to the facts. Where DOES Hillary stand on anything? She changes her stance weekly.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. wow - GOP talking points.
I find the groupthink Hillary-hatred here at DU really sad and unenlightened, and that's coming from someone won't vote for her in the primary (Gore for me, please.)

I won't even try to convince you otherwise.
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. WOW-Nothing better to say than call me a GOPer?
Grow up. Get over Hillary. She's not all that. I definitely would vote for Gore. But this isn't about Gore.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. I didn't call you a GOoper.
I said you spew GOP talking points about Hillary. I posted the poll numbers you disputed.

You are welcome to your opinion.

Have a fabulous evening (I'm on PST).
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. HA!
I saw the number you posted. You may want to take a look. Hope you realize that she's not the strongest Dem.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. ya know what
Edited on Tue Mar-28-06 11:14 PM by AtomicKitten
you are like so correct, Hillary Clinton is secretly married to Neil Bush and is a stepchild of Adolph Hitler, eats raw babies, and her victory in NY was a total travesty brought about because of some Diebold freak accident, and her challenger has superpowers and will like totally annihilate her

I stand corrected.
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. You are really not able to deal with someone trumping Hillary, are you?
Why is that? :shrug:
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #46
131. I was wondering when this retort would come up
If you don't like Hillary/Lieberman/Warner/Clark/Bayh/Biden, yada yada yada, you simply MUST be a Republican. What, you didn't get the memo???? :evilgrin:
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. There is a fallacy in your logic
If Jonathan Tasini could come close to knocking out Hillary Clinton, given all of her free media, her huge war chest, and her 100% name recognition in New York, then that means she wasn't a very strong Democrat after all. And if Tasini actually won he would become a major political sensation in his own right overnight. But the bottom line is, Hillary has her fans in New York State. People here won't turn her out for a Republican. If she wins the Democratic Primary she will trounce the laughable opposition that The New York State Republican Party has resorted to trying to scrape up to oppose her.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. again, read my post
Edited on Tue Mar-28-06 10:42 PM by AtomicKitten
... seeking to knock out the strongest Dem is insanity.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. OK. So why is that insanity then? n/t
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. I refer you
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. I actually just answered that post, lol
Peace.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. My comments are in no way meant to impugn the challenger.
They are purely strategic.
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incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #45
60. I don't understand your reasoning
Hillary will win, Tom (and I) will readily admit this. If she actually has to answer some questions on the issues from a primary challenger, how is this wrong or harmful? Isn't that the kind of debate we have the right to expect from our elected officials? Is she just to be coronated for the seat that she will most certainly win?

Unless you are rooting for Hillary to get the nomination, and I know you are not, why you would be concerned with keeping her image all spit-shined and untouched is beyond me. What do you care about Hillary's "strategy"? She will trounce anyone they manage to throw up against her, guaranteed. If anything, taking her down a peg or two will help your guy, Gore, if he decides to run. Hillary will be the one to beat and neither Gore or anyone else in the primaries is going to have a chance if they don't fight for it, and fighting to keep Hillary looking great and not have to spend any of her tens of millions of dollars between now and the primaries isn't what I would call a rational strategy.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-29-06 04:19 AM
Response to Reply #61
66. Well, anyway, Tasini has my support
I voted for Hillary the first time. I feel let down by her on several fronts, I think the bankruptcy bill vote was the last straw. Even if she is destined to win, I want to send her a message that we aren't all thrilled to pieces with her. And if Tasini pulls off a miracle and takes it from her, he will certainly be able to beat whatever lame Republican they puke up, if they can ever agree on one. I would be thrilled, he is progressive and I like him.

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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-29-06 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #60
75. nice - thanks for speaking for me - incapsulated: I have responded in PM
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Ignacio Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-29-06 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #27
87. Agreed, and Hillary is no Lieberman
And Tasini is no Lamont. Lamont, at the very least, comes across as more credible and his positions aren't too far to the left that Connecticut voters won't go to him. Hillary, unlike Joe, doesn't bash the party at every turn and embrace Bush.
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brianf Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #87
105. Re: Agreed, and Hillary is no Lieberman
Who cares about whether someone is electable or not? The minute we start caring whether someone is more "left" than Lamont (and therefore supposedly unelectable), is the day Republicans say, "Fuck you, we get behind whoever we want," and then they'll clean the floor with you. McCain is the favorite in 08, for example, but if Republicans get behind Frist or Jeb Bush, he can forget it. You get me?

More credible? Do you think John Kerry was more credible than Ned Lamont or just conveniently your only choice on '04? Do you think a pro-war, pro-Wal-Mart, anti-universal healthcare, anti-gay-rights incumbent is MORE credible than a challenger who stands with progressives? What is "credible"-- someone who changes their mind to appease Tennessee Republicans (flag burning, immigration, war, etc. etc.) and betrays our values? That's credible?

Ridiculous.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #105
113. so.... Hillary is pro-war, pro-wal-mart, anti-universal health care,
and anti-gay rights?

Do you have proof that these are Sen. Clinton's positions on these issues, or did you just pull them out of your ass?

Just curious...


btw - welcome to DU. It's a great place for Hillary haters; almost as good as FreeRepublic. You'll fit right in.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
64. Thank you for posting this! He sounds like someone I could vote for.
I cannot stand Hillary representing me and honestly speaking, the only one she really represents is herself. I vowed not to vote for her ever again when she voted to go to war.

And im10ashus :hi:
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-29-06 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #64
67. Hey, OmmmSweetOmmm.
I hope he gives her a run for her billions of dollars. :hi:
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-29-06 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #67
71. The effort is going to have to be literally against all odds. Even here at
DU, a site that was set up for progressive Democrats, there are fierce loyalties to Hillary. I just don't get that. I feel that she is Republican Lite as I found Bill to be...what a disappointment he was to me as it continues to be with her. The only thing that I had started to admire her for was that she was taking on the very serious problem of Iraqi vets who came home with what appears to be DU poisoning...nothing is being said now about it. I wonder why.....

Meanwhile, she continues to support this illegal, immoral war...and I have a feeling that she really knew that there weren't WMDs there.. Then out of left field she starts campaigning against violence in video games as well as her new stance on abortion. Is this a Liberal Dem? She's as Liberal as Lieberman........

That off of my chest :hi: right back and have a joyful day!
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Notoverit Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
65. he gets my vote!
Although, I'd love to see his opinions on war too.(my main beef with Hillary)
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-29-06 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #65
68. Check out his website.
He speaks about the war. :hi:

Welcome to DU!
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-29-06 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #65
74. Here's a link to his stance on the war:
My position is a responsible one: the troops must be brought home now. It is the best solution for our country and for Iraq. I reject the myths that have been promoted against proponents of withdrawal.

My opponent voted for the war and supports the idea that there is a "winning" strategy for the war.

My positions are consistent with what the majority of New Yorkers believe. My opponent is out-of-step with New Yorkers throughout the state.

The Iraq war has cost the lives of more than 2,100 American men and women, and many more thousands of innocent Iraqi men, women and children.

cont'd...

http://www.tasinifornewyork.com/iraq/position
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #65
99. welocme to du!
He got the pda nod, so he must have somethin to say about the war...
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-29-06 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
69. Go Jonathan! Support primary opponents of the DINOs.
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-29-06 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #69
70. Thank you for getting my point.
We NEED to fully explore our options in the primaries. THEN we get behind the nominee. :hi:
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-29-06 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #70
72. The Myth of Sisyphus,
correct?
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-29-06 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #72
73. Yes indeed.
Good eye. :-)

I don't think anyone has commented on that before.
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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-29-06 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
76. If I lived in NY, He'd Get My Vote over Hillary
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-29-06 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
77. I'll be encouraging all the folk I know in NY to vote for him.
If You're pro-Bu$h, You're Anti-America
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #77
109. same here
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #109
111. Excellent taste.
;-)
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Joey Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-29-06 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
79. He's going against the wrong opponent
Therefore, I question his sanity.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-29-06 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #79
82. Nah... Hillary is the one running in 2006.
Try running against her first. If he doesn't succeed against her, then try again against Schumer later when he's up for re-election. Maximize his potential!
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-29-06 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
81. In reply to "It doesn't matter"
It matters as much as the votes, enthusiasm and money he is able to muster. Our party is still amenable to traditional pressure in the form of challenges and the expressed will of party voters. It would take a lot to bend Hillary's positions from an outside candidate in such a safe year, yet her presidential ambitions could be adversely affected.

That is the pressure point. She knows the progressive base is probably shepherding their money for real races against the GOP this fall so the actual extent of the challenge would be an extra gauge of anger, disagreement and future trouble.

As long as she wants to be Prez, she is vulnerable.

Besides being "hopeless" the contender has also to face higher turnout for the big state races of Governor and AG, etc. Hillary truly can coast. It is entirely up to the contender to campaign against that very false impression "it doesn't matter".

Sending a message, standing up for where the party MUST be in the future, goes far beyond the numbers. A victory here would be any double digit nay to Hillary, because it is a vote against her future plans.
And then, it WOULD matter a great deal.

The dilemma a contender has in presenting himself as first a credible candidate AND conveying the principle that this is a confidence vote that can change history even in defeat, even as Sen. Eugene McCarthy did to Johnson while losing that first primary.

People who would automatically vote for her as Senator, many more people than Hillary would believe possible, don't want her as President. The only thing keeping them from sending her a message she should hear is the feeling "it doesn't matter" this November. It is this attitude, part of the poison crippling her own service and pretensions, that must be vigorously combated if this party and democracy are to restored.

None of our candidates should have it so easy, considering the abominable, deadly record of failed opposition and watered down democratic agendas. And to top it all, their own practical attitude that "it doesn't matter" which will doom us all this fall, needs to be crushed.

This is not a flame. In fact the poster has presented a reality that needs to be addressed because it weighs down the real dynamics of people voting, people denied a voice in the agendas by the too few choices they have.
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-29-06 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #81
89. Thank you, Patrick.
I live in the real world and realize that by starting this thread that I am opening myself to ridicule. I know that Hillary will most likely be renominated for the democratic ticket in NY. I would just like to see SOMEONE, anyone, take a chance by running against her and ask her the questions that are on all our minds.

She isn't the Queen of New York. She has a duty to listen to her people.

Thanks for addressing this so succinctly.
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RazzleDazzle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-29-06 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
88. I didn't have to get any farther than this
For the past 25 years he has been a union leader

to know that he's probably far superior to Hillary.

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Rainscents Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-29-06 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
90. If I lived in NY, I would vote for this man in a heart beat!
I really don't give a shit how much money Hilliary has!
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-29-06 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #90
91. There are many in New York who feel the same way.
At least the many people I talk to at various rallies and social events. We would like to see someone who stands up for the democratic ideals. Hillary is pandering to the right. Now, I know she is triangulating, trying to get the conservative vote, but that's not what we want.
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flordehinojos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
93. if the diebold machines rule in NY, and the bushes want this tasini guy in
Edited on Thu Mar-30-06 11:30 AM by flordehinojos
her seat, he will sit there no matter how many New Yorkers (or is ti new yorkinians?) vote for hillary.

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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #93
94. Given that logic...
...what would stop them from helping a repug to the Senate seat?
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flordehinojos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #94
95. absolutely nothing.
have you seen the INVISIBLE BALLOTS DVD?

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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #95
96. No.
Do you have a link to where I can get one?

Check this out though!

http://www.tasinifornewyork.org/souloftheparty

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brianf Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #96
101. Re: He needs to get on the statewide ballot
I should've posted this here... the petitioning doesn't even start until June 5th, so no one is on the ballot until July.
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #101
102. Yes.
I know this already.

Welcome to DU! :hi:
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brianf Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #102
106. Re: Yes.
Oh, I know you know... somebody made a remark that the guy doesn't have the chance because he's not on the ballot-- I was just pointing out that there aren't any ballots yet. Basically.

Thanks for the welcome. I need me a funky pic...

-B
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #106
110. Duly noted.
It's a hot-button issue with some. Just the thought of someone running against Hillary makes heads explode. I will back whomever gets the Democratic nomination. But I would like to see someone who isn't a DINO.

I think a funky picture will do you fine. :-)

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flordehinojos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #96
114. thanks for the link to tasinifornewyork.
here is the link to Invisible Ballots www.InvisibleBallots.com or you might also want to e-mail joan at CountEveryVote@gmail.com either way you should be able to access information on how to obtain a copy of the DVD.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #94
103. there aint enough juice in dem machines to do THAT
unless Rudy got into the race
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brianf Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #103
107. Re: there aint enough juice in dem machines to do THAT
The real fact of the matter is: NY State violates the Help America Vote Act... it won't have electronic or modern machines of ANY kind, certainly not by the primary and almost definitely not by the end of the year. DOJ is suing NY State because of this.

The upside: No Diebold.
The downside: We can't rig any elections. Just kidding. That's what the Republicans at NASA are for.

-B
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #107
122. I'm glad that NYS has not complied with HAVA
:kick:
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itzamirakul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 07:25 AM
Response to Reply #103
117. Yeah, good old Rudy with his three wives...
the first wife being his own cousin...isn't that incest?

How does the Catholic Church forgive so many divorces for this man? They certainly didn't do it for Kerry.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #103
119. New York still has mechanical voting machines for now
Edited on Fri Mar-31-06 09:14 AM by Tom Rinaldo
Great wonders of ancient technology, you actually flip little levers, pull a handle, and wheels spin. New York is supposed to junk them in order to keep Federal money for election reform to buy electronic machines. New York claims they can't be changed in time for this year's elections.
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Zimmy44 Donating Member (46 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 06:41 AM
Response to Original message
115. I've already donated

I live in NY, and it's embarrassing that the most liberal state in the nation has a 'traingulator' representing it in the Senate. On Iraq and Iran, Clinton is right up there with the WH in war-mongering. Either you think the war is 'the' issue or you don't - I do.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
118. Pointless challenge...
Hillary is a fine Senator.
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #118
120. Pointless?
I don't think so. I used to be a huge admirer of Hillary's. But then she skewed center and started triangulating.

That's not what I want in my Senator. I will certainly back her if she gets the nomination.

I respect your opinion. I hope you can respect mine.

:-)
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #120
121. I respecdt all well thought out opinions...so I respect yours...
However, I have to disagree that she has skewed center. Her voting record, and the ratings she receives from virtually every left leaning group (NARAL, ADA, Labor etc), speak against that opinion.
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brianf Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #121
123. Re: I respecdt all well thought out opinions...so I respect yours...
Ratings are irrelevant because they are usually based on comparisons... well, compared to 90% of the Senate, of course she's better than most!

The problems are: she supports the war, refuses to even say it was a bad idea (for God's sake, even Condolezza Rice said there were mistakes!), doesn't oppose Bush's plan to keep the troops there beyond 2008, supports the Patriot Act (WHY?!), supports restricting civil rights for gays, is against universal healthcare (contrary to popular belief), even working with Newt Gingrich on a plan to hinder it, and on and on and on.
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #121
124. Thank you!
I respect you as well. But, after her "flag burning" moment and her refusal support FULL rights for the LGBT community, in addition to my aforementioned issues with her, I just have to go with my conscience.

:hi:
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obnoxiousdrunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #124
126. It's all good in the primaries
But in the end don't get mad and vote for the Rethuglican candidate.
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #126
127. OH MY GOD!!!!
Edited on Fri Mar-31-06 02:49 PM by im10ashus
Them's fightin' words! :7

I could never vote for a repuglican.

On Edit: I have voted for a republican once in my life. I have to admit. When I lived in Illinois I voted for George Ryan for governor because (a) the democrat was a down-state anti-gay, pro-gun loving, anti-choice thug; and (b) George Ryan wanted a moratorium on the death penalty.

:shrug:
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
125. You know stranger things have happened
These are weird times we live in... You never know what people feel when they cast their vote...
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