Immigrants are driving down wages

[Elwood P Dowd]

It's simply a case of supply and demand. As long as there is an abundant supply of people willing to work for slave wages from republican businesses, unskilled US workers will remain part of the long-term unemployed or forced to work for the same slave wages. Let me give you an example of one landscape business here in the south.

Back in the early 90s, this company was paying it's workers $6.00 to $10.00 an hour based on their experience and work ethic. Most of the workers were African-American males in their 20s and 30s, along with young white males and a sprinkling of college kids, either working part-time or during the summer. It was hard work, so you had to pay a decent wage to keep a productive and loyal workforce.

The owner of this company was doing quite well financially. He was a member of the country club, drove new cars, and lived in a house that would probably cost $400,000 today (twice that if it were located in California). Through another businessman, he discovered a new profit opportunity - immigrant workers. When he expanded with a new crew, he hired immigrants at the minimum wage. It was so profitable, he started weeding out his regular workers and replacing them with immigrants. By the late 90s, almost every worker had been replaced. His competitors were forced to do the same, since he could undercut their prices.

Today, the owner of this company is rolling in the dough by paying immigrant workers less than he was paying US workers 15 years ago. The $5.15 an hour he pays is equivalent to about $3.00 an hour back then.

With several crews totaling about 100 workers, he is banking at least an extra $600,000 a year in labor savings. What if he were a really big company, a giant construction firm maybe, he might make an extra 2-3 million bucks a year.

No wonder the unemployment rate for younger African-American males is 30% or more in many areas of the country. No wonder college students cannot find part-time or summer employment (I use to work in construction and landscaping part-time and summers as a college student in the 60s). These entry level jobs are now being given to immigrant workers by the greedy slave-wage republican business owners.

What would happen if the supply of slave-wage labor was suddenly eliminated? These bastard repukes would then be fighting for workers. They would be forced to pay them $10.00 or $12.00 an hour here in the south and more in other areas. US workers will work for a living wage.

It's all about supply and demand. All this happy talk on this board about immigrant ancestors and labor unions and demonstrations and open borders
and such is a total waste of time. The repukes are in charge folks, and they're the ones that want the immigrants in this country. They want an unlimited supply of people willing to work for slave-wages. This immigration bill is a smokescreen for some other devious scheme they have planned for us little people.

[rpannier]

1. You make some very valid points n/t

edit: removed text

[ulysses]

2. question: what's your take on free trade?

[Elwood P Dowd]

10. I was against NAFTA and all the others from the beginning

Clinton jumped in bed with Newt and his gang back in 93. Made me sick.

[BrklynLiberal]

24. NAFTA and CAFTA are why these people are coming here.

They helped to undermine the businesses and small farms in their countries, and eliminated the tariffs that kept the imports from being so cheap in this country.
All they did was benefit the big corporations here, in Latin America, and abroad.

Thom Hartmann does a superb job of explaining this all in all its gory details.
The ddropping of the import tariffs was another trend that was started under Ronald Reagan.

[ulysses]

27. and yet you think immigrants are the great force

driving down wages?

[Elwood P Dowd]

38. This isn't about anything other than the facts

You give the business world an abundant supply of people willing to work for slave wages, and they will pay them slave wages. Immigrants were coming here long before NAFTA. NAFTA just greased the skids for more to come, and forced more US workers to compete with them. Like Carla Hills said, "It's a win-win proposition". Guess you know by now who would be doing the "winning".

[ulysses]

46. ok...

You give the business world an abundant supply of people willing to work for slave wages, and they will pay them slave wages.

Slave wages here are evidently better than what's available to the poor south of the border. One humane solution might be to help improve things south of the border, which I suggested the other night.

Immigrants were coming here long before NAFTA.

Yes, but they never had nearly the downward effect on wages that NAFTA did.

NAFTA just greased the skids for more to come

No, NAFTA sent the jobs to maquiladoras for pennies on the dollar.

[Elwood P Dowd]

49. NAFTA spread the free trade zone

The Maquiladoras were already in a free trade zone. NAFTA greased the skids for more immigration because we can only inspect a small percentage of the trucks pouring across the border thanks to the free trade deal.

Fox and Bush are in bed together. Nothing will ever happen to improve poverty in Mexico short of someone like Chavez taking power.

[ulysses]

50. then nothing will improve the illegal immigration issue

short of someone like Chavez taking power.

[Redstone]

3. Let's feed the anti-immigrant frenzy in GD tonight! We haven't had

enough xenophobia!

Redstone

[ulysses]

5. or enough anecdotal stories

about how things used to be before the brown masses invaded.

[QC]

7. Or enough racebaiting--until now, anyway. n/t

[ulysses]

11. am I racebaiting?

Tell me how this isn't about race.

[QC]

15. You're the one who brought up the "brown masses."

The original post approaches the issue from a labor perspective.

[ulysses]

21. and I did so for a reason.

Were the influx from Canada, I don't think we'd see the reaction that we do now.

[QC]

26. Why not ask the o.p., rather than just slyly call him a racist?

Frankly, I'm tired of the way many people think they can silence those who disagree with them simply by brandishing the dread "brown people" phrase. Whether we like it or not, illegal immigration is going to be one of the top issues this fall, and we need to be able to discuss it.

[ulysses]

29. I haven't slyly called him anything.

If I thought he was a racist, I would say so. Neither do I have any interest in "silencing" him. You haven't read many of my posts, have you?

Whether we like it or not, illegal immigration is going to be one of the top issues this fall, and we need to be able to discuss it.

Indeed we do, in all its aspects.

[beam me up scottie]

13. Race baiting?

Where do you live?

Every time I disagree with the anti-immigration morons I work with, I bring up the fact that my MOTHER was an immigrant.

Oh, but she's from Europe, and that's different.:sarcasm:

Sorry, but it IS about race.

[QC]

19. For many people, it is about race.

That does not mean, however, that everyone who has qualms about Bush's de facto open border policy is a racist. There are legitimate reasons to be concerned, and accusing people of racism in an attempt to shut down discussion doesn't change that.

If you want to know where I live, look at my profile.

[beam me up scottie]

28. True, but after almost leaving DU because of the Minute Men threads,

I know that it is about race for a lot of DUers.

They look at Mexicans and see the enemy.

Me?

I'm not so easy to distract.

[QC]

35. I understand. But having read discussions of this on other boards,

and seen things that curled my hair, I consider DU to be Rainbow Brite's Happy Meadow. We're pretty civil here, compared to other places, and I honestly think that there are very few David Duke types here.

[beam me up scottie]

44. Heh. The "discussions" that take place where I work would curl your hair.

There's a reason why I am admittedly sensitive to racism, homophobia, sexism, religious intolerance and other assorted bigotry-I can't avoid it at work and I can't run over people with my car because that wouldn't be nice.

I do see very little of that here, but what I do see sometimes seems worse because I expect better from liberals.

I should bow out of this thread and avoid GD for a few days.

I think I'll go find one of those Happy Meadows groups and hang out there til things simmer down.

Goodnight.

[ausus]

74. Yeah, cry Racism. Well how about cold hard analysis: Paul Krugman.

In Monday's New York Times, Paul Krugman, columnist, respected, world-renowned economist concludes that there is now avoiding the fact that continued immigration of workers has had disasterous consequences for the most vulnerable of American workers. Sorry, you are not going to get away with painting him with the racist label, are youi?

Quoteing Krugman, "The most authoritative recent study ..by George Borjas and Lawerence Katz of Harvard, estimates that U.S. high school dropoouts would earn as much as 8 percent more if it weren't for Mexican immigration."

Personally, I think he understates the damage. I have a hunch that he doesn't take into account the cost of all thos inner-city young men and woman who have given up on competing with this endless chain of labor. Not to mention how the supply of labor distorts the economcy in the sense that Americans who would prefer to do blue-collar work are squeezed out of the labor market and opt for "university" where they pursue an "education" that they are neither suited or inclined for.

This unending, massive immigration is unprecedented and is a disaster for working men and women, of all races.

[ulysses]

89. oh, I'm sorry, I just got the memo.

Illegal immigration is to blame for all our economic woes. Nevermind NAFTA, nothing to see there. Got it.

:eyes:

[beam me up scottie]

8. No kidding.

It's like a sequel to last year's Minute Men bubba-fest.

[mzmolly]

4. K and R.

I'm not anti-immigration, but I am anti-slave labor.

[John Q. Citizen]

6. What would happen if minimum wage were raised to $10 an hour?

[Elwood P Dowd]

17. You really think this bunch of crooks in Washington will raise

the minimum wage? Dream on.

[John Q. Citizen]

23. You really think we can seal the boarders? Dream on.

Raising the minimum is a lot easier and cheaper than any other idea.

And it's better for all concerned.

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. How do we enforce it though?

I agree raising the minimum is a great idea. But can we force contractors who hire day laborers and pay them cash under the table to stop this practice? And how?

[John Q. Citizen]

48. Same way we enforce all labor laws. First you publicize the law. And

you enforce the law.

It's like the law against slavery. how do you enforce it? You bust people who break it.

It's like child labor law. You enforce it. And you enforce it against employers.

Announce it in newspapers and TV in Mexico.

Don't harass workers who come forward to complain. Let people in legally and if they can't find a job, they won't stay.

Will there still be some under the table going on? Sure, but no where near as much.

[madeline_con]

9. First, they call it a "guest worker" program.

That indicates they want them to stay. They're the plantation owners now, fighting to keep slavery going.

Some of the talk here seems to be in support of this slavery, IMO.

[Strelnikov_]

22. So You Consider My Guest Worker Proposal 'Slavery'

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=760232&mesg_id=760542

[Tom Joad]

12. How about Fair Trade. How about enforcing a living wage for all

This is our struggle. Not blaming immigrants.

[Neil Lisst]

14. You are absolutely right. And those who argue race need to get a new line

It's not about race. People who make that allegation have literally run out of sane arguments.

It's about protecting our own country, which cannot continue to lose jobs to foreigners and still support our social systems.

I might also mention that the working poor in America are part of the Democratic coalition, and those in the party who are cultural elitists tend to ignore THAT part of the Dem coalition. It's not all about anti-war, gay rights, and abortion. That poor American's job is just as important as your reproductive freedom, stopping a bad war, and keeping gays from being discriminated against.

[Strelnikov_]

18. Not Much Discussion Of Pros and Cons, Lots Of Jingoism

Guess when you ain't got nothing, Jingoism is a real cool hand.

[Neil Lisst]

39. Ah, the name-calling. That's all you've got, isn't it?

Come back when you have logic or reason. Otherwise, you want to take that whine to someone who cares.

[Strelnikov_]

42. Actually

my post was a follow up to your statement

"It's not about race. People who make that allegation have literally run out of sane arguments."

and not directed to you at at all. My mistake.

[ulysses]

25. speaking of needing to get a new line...

It's not all about anti-war, gay rights, and abortion.

Correct, which is why some of us have been screaming about free trade on DU for years.

[Neil Lisst]

41. I don't recall mentioning free trade.

This discussion is about the problem of illegal immigration and how it undercuts the economics of the country, and Democrats, in particular. Illegal immigration is great for Republicans. If you believe in illegal immigration, you're on the same side as Walmart.

[ulysses]

47. I know you didn't.

This discussion is about the problem of illegal immigration and how it undercuts the economics of the country, and Democrats, in particular.

Free trade, as it has been realized to this point, has undercut our economy to a far greater degree than illegal immigration ever has.

If you believe in illegal immigration, you're on the same side as Walmart.

Wow, where to begin?

I don't "believe in illegal immigration", nor am I on the same side as Wal-Mart. Neither do I believe that cracking down on poor folks who happen to live in other countries is either workable or progressive.

[Neil Lisst]

53. I've never said we should punish those already here.

Stopping the inflow is my thing, as well making citizens of those already here, if they wish to remain.

[ulysses]

61. well,

having viewed your "invasion" comic below, I think I'll simply bid you adieu.

[beam me up scottie]

76. I just saw that.

When did we start reprinting the freeper's cartoons?

[Neil Lisst]

85. We? Since when did your opinions become DU?

Isn't it obvious that many of us here are DU disagree with you and the elitists who don't want to protect the jobs of working Democrats?

I'd say your view is in the minority here. I count a handful of you who get bent out of shape any time anyone wants to stop or limit illegal immigration.

[John Q. Citizen]

56. Wal Mart is opposed to raising minimum to $10 an hour. I'm for it.

The problem isn't immigration. if you open the boarder and allow people to walk through then it isn't illegal, is it?

They would quit crossing through remote desert in a heartbeat.

Raise the minimum wage to 10 bucks an hour. Americans would be better off as well as new Americans.

Wal Mart wouldn't like it though.

[beam me up scottie]

33. We need to protect our country from immigrants?

Damn, and here I joined DU thinking we needed to protect it from bush and the neocons...

[Neil Lisst]

43. We need to protect the country from ILLEGAL immigrants.

This IS a George Bush and neo-con problem.

Who do think is employing all those illegals? It ain't Democrats.

[Redstone]

16. Oh, and also: This is a bit too glib for me to believe:

Through another businessman, he discovered a new profit opportunity..."

Sounds like one of those canned "true-life stories" that we get via e-mail.

You know this business owner yourself, up close and personal? Can you tell us who, specifically, that "other businessman" is? For some reason, I doubt it.

Redstone

[Elwood P Dowd]

34. Somebody who once worked for the company

told me the story a few years ago. He also told me about roofing companies, paving companies, construction companies, and more. I was somewhat skeptical at first, but when the roofing company guy I knew said it was happening everywhere, including his company, then I knew there was something to it. By the way, the roofing company guy now employs 100% immigrants. Says he has to do it in order to compete

One more little tidbit I hear from some of these companies; "African-Americans won't work as hard as Mexicans, and they want too much money and too much time off."

[BrklynLiberal]

20. Wonder what the Repukes would do if all these laborers wanted to

join unions?

All these "Guest workers" are not going to be able to vote, that is for sure.

You are absolutley right. This is all part of the Repuke/Big Corporate plan to undermine the pay scale in this country and totally destroy the middle class, but that does not justify blaming the victims.
They are being manipulated in this scheme, just as we are.

[ekelly]

93. All these "Guest workers" are not going to be able to vote, that is for su

Wanna bet?

Slave labor Corporations decide who votes and who doesn't.

[2Design]

30. divide and conquer - we all need to work around the WORLD

to get wages raised

we need to stop buying corporations products
investing in the stock of companies is helping them

they are pitting us against each other
they did this with color
they did this with katrina
they did this with 911

they want us to believe it is the other guy - not them
it is all smoke and mirrors

the corporations and this government are the problem

not believing in social programs that are good for the whole rather than the me generation of those in their late 40's

pitting us against each other never will solve the problem

what is wrong with everyone making a living wage around the world

what about only buying stock of companies that truly help others
not a barbara bush routine either - that is stealing from one place and giving it to another that is probably stealing it again

the
BFEE has been draining this country for decades

[DanCa]

32. Half the equation, Out Sourcing is the other half.

Pretty soon all the illegals well have to go to India to get American jobs. :) I don't hate illegals for taking our jobs I hate the lilly white politicians for letting it get to this point. Cant this Chimp of a President do anything right?

[BrklynLiberal]

36. He didn't "let" it get ths bad. This is how it was planned to be from the

beginning
All the high-paying middle-class jobs to be outsourced to India or such, for lower pay, and then, allow or force a very cheap source of labor onto the market to force down the payscale for the rest of the market.

What is the common denominator here? Increased PROFIT for Big Business.

Final result? Total destruction of the Middle Class and Labor Unions and all the benefits that they have brought to this country.

[Iowa]

58. Yep, you nailed it.

[2Design]

72. exactly but it started with reagan and probably before

they want nothing that fdr created - they want the country back to pre-fdr
they want NONE of the social programs that help the poor
they are trying to get rid of public school next

they did it with Manufacturing and suceeded
they did it with autos
they did it with IT
they did it with nursing
they did it with health care
they are now targeting teaching and education at all levels at once


No child left behind is forcing schools into bankruptcy and pitting parents against teachers
the students will lose
the only thing that is in NCLB is to recruit miltary with promise of education

it has nothing to do with helping the student

[BrklynLiberal]

81. Yes. Thom Hartmann explained how he started it with the ending of

the import tariffs that kept our products on an equal footing with those that were imported from countries with cheaper labor.
It has all been downhill from there as far as American Labor has been concerned. From the breaking of the Air Traffic Controllers' union on down, the government has been in the business of helping big business, and that is all.
Labor and the Middle Class were doomed from the minute Reagan was elected, and W in the White House has been the final death blow.

[Horse with no Name]

37. Immigrants have ONE goal and ONE purpose

And it ISN'T to steal jobs from American's.
It is to find their own job--do an honest day's work and support their family.
Not very different from your goals is it?

However, their country is corrupt. They can't even rise to poverty in Mexico so getting to rise to slave wages in America is a dream come true.
They cross the desert in the dead of night--whether it is cold or hot, pack themselves in housing to save money, eat on beans and rice, and save, save, save.
It is not their fault that both countries exploit them.
Mexico exploits them to prop up their economy and corporations/small businesses exploit them for cheap labor.
There is a market for their labor here--whether you like it or not.
Take away the market, you take away their reason to come.
Give them guest worker status and let them bring their families over--then their money will stay here and Mexico will have to solve it's own problems with the economy sans the illegal immigrants.

[Elwood P Dowd]

45. You and many others totally miss the point

The POINT IS.....pit the immigrants against US workers. Drive down wages. Up profits for corporations. Destroy the middle class. Immigrants are being used to drive down wages. It's as simple as that. What does it take to wake people up on this freaking board!!!!!!

:shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug:

[Horse with no Name]

52. the only ones pitting worker v. worker

are the ones who don't understand that NEITHER the Mexican nor the American workers are to blame.
IT IS THE PEOPLE THAT HIRE THEM! Pass legislation to where they pay HUGE and NOTICEABLE fines...not piddly ass fines that they budget for.
Fine $25k per worker and increase that EACH time they are caught employing undocumented workers.
Roll the money back into the schools so that benefits everyone.
You are the one that "doesn't get it". They aren't that different from you.

[Elwood P Dowd]

55. Who is going to fine them?

George W. Bush? The repukes are in charge. Do you think they're going to cut off the hand that feeds the face?

[Horse with no Name]

65. WE THE PEOPLE

It's gonna take people getting to the streets, and judging by what our youth did today, I say that day is near.
The dumbest thing we can do is to do what Bush wants us to do--divide ourselves on this issue.

[BrklynLiberal]

66. Rove's plan is working perfectly. We are being divided.

Just look at this thread.

[John Barrett]

40. If 20 Million Are Good For Business, How About Another 20 Million

If one listens to the demonstrators that they (the 12-20 Million illegals) do jobs Americans won't do, and that they are good for business, let's bring in through the back door another 20 million? Corporate America would be ecstatic. CEOS would get a huge bonus and benefits and wages could be cut for 20 million more Americans.

[BrightKnight]

69. "illegals" = exploited, slave like, coerced, non-person

We all benefit from "illegals" labor. If you can't see it then you are not looking. You can not wash you hands by simply blaming the CEOs.

[Neil Lisst]

51. Elwood, it's an invasion, and while I can empathize with illegals ...

I cannot ignore all the jobs they are taking, all the wage undercutting they have done.

Our minimum wage is a ridiculously low $5.15 an hour, and inflation is eating that up. And it's not just the base number, it's the lack of overtime. Workers are not getting the same real wages, and they're not getting those overtime hours. Many aren't even getting 40 hours a week, as companies cut them off at 37 or 38 hours.

The result is the widening between the haves and the have nots in the country. The working poor are getting poorer, and it's not just whites or blacks, it's the millions of hispanics that ARE citizens.

Go to any construction site, and you'll see dozens of jobs that used to be done by citizens, and now they are done by non-citizens.

We cannot provide medical care for 40 million of our citizens, yet we're providing medical care for well over 10 million illegals and the number rises daily.

This cartoon pissed some people off, but hey, it's an editorial cartoon, an opinion - mine.

[Horse with no Name]

54. Wow.

Words don't even express.
Total xenophobia.

[Elwood P Dowd]

62. Words don't even express - total lack of knowledge about the problem

The race to the bottom is on, and you are letting emotions cloud your thinking! Just what the repuke want.

[Horse with no Name]

71. Words don't even express

That I have lived in fucking border states my entire life and have a working knowledge of what I am talking about.
The problem is a straw man set up to absorb the impact of what outsourcing has done to our economy to take the heat off of the Republicans in an election year.
If the race to the bottom is on, then you just won First Prize for getting there first.

[BrklynLiberal]

75. You are 100% right. Rove etal are peeing their pants laughing at

us watching us have arguments like this instead of discussing the REAL things we should be talking about for the November elections..

[Elwood P Dowd]

84. I think we're trying to say the same thing

The repukes are using immigrants to drive down wages. They are also passing free trade deals and supporting outsourcing. It's all part of the same plan. You keep mistaking my post as being racist or something. It's strictly about reality without bringing emotion or anything else into the equation. I was simply posting what is happening.

[Neil Lisst]

86. Wow.

It's easy to call others names and accuse them of being evil or malevalent.

Come back when you have something intelligent to say.

[Horse with no Name]

90. No intelligence needed

to reply to racism.

[Neil Lisst]

91. You're the person being racist.

Because you can't argue the merits of illegal immigration without making it a racial argument. It isn't. It's an economic issue.

Now take your name-calling somewhere else.

[darkmaestro019]

57. Extremely valid points. Harsh but true.

I have nothing against immigrants (legal or otherwise, honestly) but you are right about this cause and effect.....and it's tangled up with our pathetic slavewage minimum, too. They don't want immigrants out--they want an excuse to build a wall and put in gun turrets that will probably have the strange ability to point BACK INTO AMERICA and not just at Mexico........

EDIT: to say that the reason I hold none of it against the immigrants themselves is the same reason I don't blame Indians or whichever for taking the outsourced jobs. I pity anyone who had it so bad they had to FLEE TO THIS. I blame the fat cats on top that perpetuate this. Living wages plus GIGANTIC fines for using illegal labor or underpaying would fix a great many problems. To those who would lose their scraping-by slaves, let me whip out a tiny little violin. Oops, no, i Ebayed that the last time I was laid off.

Once we got that straight we could work on making it possible to legally immigrate so that it wouldn't necessary to contemplate doing it illegally in most cases--and it'd no longer get you a job.

[bleedingheart]

59. Do you realize that it was the immigrants who caused wages to rise

in the early 1900's...the strikers at Homestead and thereafter were primarily immigrants...

They were actually smarter than American's today in their quest for a living wage and a fair work day.

Wanna talk about the real slave labor...look at China.. it doesn't matter how many immigrants cross the US borders we can't compete with the Chinese Industrial machinery.

[Warpy]

60. I keep trying to tell everybody CHEAP ASS EMPLOYERS

are the problem, not the immigrants they're exploiting.

We need to raise the minimum wage--a LOT. 87% of Americans agree with this. Forced to pay a wage that people can actually live on, most employers would prefer to hire folks who speak their language and have the proper paperwork, not that the risk for hiring illegals is great in such an antilabor climate.

I'd like to see the focus on CHEAP ASS EMPLOYERS, fine them and jail them according to the maximum penalty for each illegal alien they're found to have hired. Fat chance of that until we get rid of the GOPs and the DLC.

Exploitation is ugly, no matter who it's happening to.

[struggle4progress]

63. Organize FOR a living wage -- not AGAINST immigrants!

Union-busting corporate American is driving down wages with threats to out-source and other such games.

And they're diverting attention by encouraging people to attack immigrants.

Go after corporate America? Or go after some poor slob trying to keep his family from starving? Make your choice: I've made mine.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Elwood P Dowd]

67. I hope you're joking

Where is the :sarcasm: smiley?

[ulysses]

70. hey, you have the support of the freepers!

[Elwood P Dowd]

78. I think you're a freeper in disguise

coming on this board masquerading as a dem just to stir up trouble.

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ulysses]

80. heh!

Been a while since I've been accused of that. I've been on DU since July, 2001, cohosted more than a few get-togethers in Atlanta and been a moderator for four terms, so you can take it up with the admins if you'd like.

[Elwood P Dowd]

87. Just throwing some of your crap back

associating me with freepers. I've been a democrat since the 60s. When I was in the Army in 1971, I took a chance and participated in the April anti-war demonstrations in Washington despite the warnings from our CO. Good thing I left on sunday night, because early the next morning some of my friends wound up in the poky.

Oh well, I lurked here a couple of years and then finally joined in 2003.

[ulysses]

92. good for you.

For the record, I was simply pointing out that your post got kudos from someone who's since been banned.

I don't think you're a freeper, but I think you're falling for a trap by pitting American workers against Mexican workers. I think it's a bad deal for Dems to be touting.

[phusion]

68. lmao

It's rare that I see repukes before they are tombstoned.

:hi:

[Horse with no Name]

73. What an absolute racist remark

One of the reasons there is such a high unemployment rate in young black males is because of racist business owners not hiring them.

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Horse with no Name]

82. Oh what fun it is to poke....

Enjoy your stay.:hi:

[ausus]

83. Well I'm glad that you are at least fortright with your belief..

Just like Vincente Fox, who too calls black American's lazy. Well, well, well.

But this fella is fortright, I mean those (Bush, Spector, Kennedy, Boxer) who always go on about "jobs that Americans don't want to do" are just obliquely, and in code, saying the same thing, aren't they?

Back in the 16th century, Master Cortez kidnaped and impressed Africans into the Spanish colonial realm because he said that the indigenous folk were lazy and only the African would/could work under such toil. Now we have Masters Bush/Fox/Spector/Kennedy/Boxer saying that it is the African (and white American, and Latino American too) who are just too damm lazy and we have to import labour. Some things just never change.

[Garbo 2004]

88. Perhaps your title should be employers are driving down wages

by finding ways to avoid paying a decent living wage. Finding cheaper labor, outsourcing, working people part time so they don't have to pay benes, negotiating takeaways with labor, etc..

[proud patriot]

94. I'm locking this thread

Inflammatory original post ,which led to
many personal attacks .

proud patriot Moderator
Democratic Underground