Ramsey Clark hails Milosevic at his burial : DUers keep away from him

[tocqueville]

Ramsey Clark, a former U.S. attorney general and longtime Milosevic supporter who is now on Saddam Hussein's defense team, drew cheers by telling the crowd: "History will prove that Slobodan Milosevic was right."

But some drivers passing by the square honked car horns and made obscene gestures at the Milosevic supporters, underscoring the disgust many Serbs feel toward the late autocratic leader.

"All of Belgrade's squares would be too small for all the victims of Milosevic and his rule," said Foreign Minister Vuk Draskovic, who was twice targeted for assassination by the Milosevic regime. "A murderer and his crimes were glorified today."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060318/ap_on_re_eu/milosevic;_ylt=AlZDEIe.FdvVpGE7mhZrW9NWbBAF;_ylu=X3oDMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN5bmNhdA--

further :

"Some clutched photographs of Milosevic or the U.N. court's two most-wanted fugitives: Bosnian Serb leader Radovan Karadzic and his wartime military chief, Gen. Ratko Mladic."

let's remind that those two were the direct responsibles for the execution of 7000 unarmed civilians in Srebreniza...

Ramsey Clark is a criminal fool

[Adelante]

1. "Slobodan Milosevic was right"

Hitler, too, I guess.

[sakabatou]

2. And Stalin, and the Crusaders, and the Spanish Inquisition

:puke:

[JohnKleeb]

3. Thats disgusting

But not surprising if you know his clients list.

[Fenris]

4. What was it Jon Stewart said was on his business card?

"Ramsey Clark - representing sick fucks since 1968?"

[JohnKleeb]

6. something like that

though the satire isnt exactly true lol since he wasn't what he is now when he ran against Jacob Javitz in the early 70s. Thought it was a great joke considering who Clark's clients are htough.

[DinahMoeHum]

5. The International ANSWER assholes can keep him.

The rest of us from UFPJ and the vets groups have outgrown him.

:evilfrown:

[Hubert Flottz]

7. I admired his stand on saving the kids in Iraq from the UN...

sanctions that caused so much suffering, but when he defended Saddam it turned me against him FOREVER! Saddam was stealing from his own people all along, during the UN sanctions and causing the death and suffering of those children that Clark claimed to CARE about. Nothing STUPID that the man does, will surprise me anymore. I once thought he was a real fighter for human rights, but I admit, that I was dead wrong about him.

[Terran1212]

18. All he did was say Saddam was held illegally

Which is true. He didn't say Saddam didn't committ criminal acts.

[NVMojo]

8. It all depends on whose propoganda you believe ...

[tocqueville]

9. elaborate please

there is a MAJOR difference between criticizing or even condemning a military intervention - and siding WITH WAR CRIMINALS. Or maybe Milosevic wasn't one ? that's news to me...

[Lochloosa]

10. Or ask the four Bosnian families on my street. Beautiful people.

[cali]

13. I call bullshit

Yes there's propaganda from all directions, but discerning the truth in most situations is hardly impossible. The truth is Milosevic was a Serbian Nationalist who stoked the flames of hate and pursued a policy of ethnic cleansing.

"Nationalism: A state of mind wherein one hates another's nation more than one loves one's own"

Freidrich Rech-Malleczwan

[Mr_Spock]

35. What kind of horseshit open ended statement is this??

Making this idiotic statement and running is immature.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

11. History is written by the winners.

[tocqueville]

12. and the massgraves in Srebreniza a CIA trick ? nt

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

15. No.

[cali]

16. Outrageous, isn't it?

A multitude of sins can be covered by pat sayings about how it depends on whose propaganda you buy or that history is written by the winners. Glibly tossed out, they're often true, but meaningless without an explanation of why that particular cliche applies to a given situation. It's the sort of generalization and excuse that I have only contempt for. Often it comes from people who are perfectly willing to call bushco
a genocidal war criminal. And I'm not say this administration isn't guilty of war crimes; I'm pointing out the hypocricy of refusing to recognize the criminal acts of others.

And to the OP: I concur. Ramsay Clark is a fool.

[Adelante]

29. So right

I've had enough of it, this mass murdering dictator lovin' horseshit.

[northzax]

30. yeah, they called in the Zionist oppressors who faked the holocaust

it's their speciality, you know. They've also done some work for the Tutsis. Got their start in Armenia, though. It's an industry with a long history.

[BlueManDude]

14. Time for sleepy Mr. Clark n/t

[Terran1212]

17. Ramsey Clarke is right about a lot; dont have to agree with him all the

time.

[tocqueville]

21. Ayatollah Khomeini curses Bush all the time

he still is an old despot religious tyrant

[Terran1212]

24. Extreme analogy

[tocqueville]

25. I don't think so

people can have on the surface a correct standpoint which hides a horrendous background. That's why the extreme left and extreme right often meet. For example the Clark's and Galloway's standpoints about that the US are acting criminally in Iraq (or acted) correct. But you can hear exactly the same standpoints from extreme right- wingers like Le Pen and others. Rush Limbaugh interview is an example too. The correct standpoint hides the agenda (often an antisemitic one). And it becomes really bad when Saddam, Milosevic or Assad are transformed into "victims".

As I said there is a big difference between criticizing your country's faults (even vehemently) and SIDING with dictators and tyrants. When Clark supports (and even hails) Milosevic despite the overwhelming evidence of his crimes, it does no good to the criticism of some US operations in the Balkans. But it gives plenty of "arguments" to the RW condemning Clinton's policies in the area. Europeans today consider that it was a good thing that the US didn't keep an isolationist attitude in this area. That the war in Kosovo could have been conducted another way with less damage on the Serbian infrastructure is another story.

[northzax]

31. Hitler was right about a lot of things as well

of course, the stuff he was wrong about, and acted on, sorta outweighs the stuff he was right about, don't it?

[NYC]

19. Did Ramsey Clark actually attend the funeral?

I couldn't tell from the article. They did not specifically say that he was there.

[tocqueville]

20. yes he was shown and commented on French TV/BBC

According to the BBC, thousands of Serbs have gathered to say farewell to Milosevic, one week after he died at The Hague war crimes tribunal, up to 100,000 people packed a square and surrounding streets outside the federal parliament of Serbia and Montenegro, many weeping, clutching photos of the former leader and shouting his nickname "Slobo, Slobo". "Today we are bidding farewell to the best man among us," said Milorad Vucelic, a senior official from Mr Milosevic's Socialist Party. Few foreign dignitaries attended, although a senior MP from Russian President Vladimir Putin's United Russia party was present in a private capacity. Former US attorney general Ramsey Clark, a longtime Milosevic supporter, was among the speakers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slobodan_Milo%C5%A1evi%C4%87

[NYC]

28. Thank you.

I had the impression he was there, but wasn't sure if it was just a letter that was read. Thanks.

[shance]

22. Remember how censored we are DUers.....how can we be so sure

of the total demonization of Milosevic when there are those in our own government that may have had their own involvement? One thing I know, just like 9-11, just like Iraq, just like New Orleans, we have not been told the whole truth.

Why would Serbia/Kosovo now be any different? I'm not giving answers, Im simply saying it warrants asking.

We've been lied to again and again and again. How do we know what the truth is at this point?

I would wager the Europeans know a heck of a lot more about Serbia/Kosovo than we do. Many of them were there, and all we got was this lousy media. :)

Again, its like every other event, including Iraq. We have been lied to repeatedly by our media and I believe the more important thing is to question what we are being told.

Milosevic was no saint. Nor are some in our own government who apparently may have also been involved.

[tocqueville]

26. you win the bet but still a question...involved in what ?

1) Casualties

The death toll after the war was originally estimated at 200,000 by the Bosnian government. This figure is still quoted most often by the Western media.

The United Nations' agencies had previously estimated 278,000 dead and missing persons in Bosnia and Herzegovina. They also recorded around 1,325,000 refugees and exiles.

Research done by the International Criminal Tribunal in 2004 determined a more precise number of 102,000 deaths and estimated the following breakdown: 55,261 were civilians and 47,360 were soldiers. Of the civilians, 1,973 were Bosnian Serbs while 30,514 were Bosnian Muslims and 1,973 Bosnian Croats. Of the soldiers, 21,399 were Bosnian Serbs, 2,619 were Bosnian Croats, and 30,173 were Bosnian Muslims. <2>

The most recent figures come from the Research and Documentation Center in Sarajevo, which was working closely with the aforementioned ICTY. The table to the right demonstrates their numbers as they were released in December 2005 with about 95% of the research complete.

2) European journalists were there from day one

3) 90% of the troops on the ground were European (the US presence is/was minimal except in the air)

4) if you mean that the CIA armed resistance in Croatia and Kosovo, it's right. That some war crimes were committed by Croatians, Kosovars and even some Bosnians it's true. But it doesn't change the fact that the conflicts (Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo) were initiated by Milosevic and his plans of an ethnically pure "greater Serbia) and that the magnitude of his crimes is in other category than the local atrocities from others that happened during the war.

[Renew Deal]

23. wow

This guy is nuts. :crazy:

[Sparkly]

27. Don't EVEN get me started....

:mad:

Just remember this when people on DU start lauding him for saying things they do approve of, both against BushCo AND against certain Democrats. The man is just plain nuts.

I agree -- keep your distance. The enemy of our enemy is NOT always our friend (and has plenty of strange bedfellows, like Milosevic).

[Adelante]

32. General Clark had an interesting radio interview this week

Wes was on Chicago Public Radio with Jerome McDonnell talking about independence for Kosovo. I was interested in what he had to say about the KLA and terrorism and the safety of the Serb population.

-snip

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, I think the loss of Ibrahim Rugova was a, was a real tragedy for Kosova. He was a young guy, and to have lost him is a real shame. I think the, the status of the Kosova Liberation Army is, is ambivalent at best. You know, I've been hearing these charges about it being a terrorist organization since 1997, principally from Russians, and when I asked for the proof and the- the proof that it was connected to the Mujahideen and so forth, none was forthcoming. What I would tell you is: there are a lot of Albanian-Americans who have worked for that organization and even fought there to try to resolve the problem of ethnic cleansing in the Balkans. And so, I, I don't consider it a terrorist organization in the way that the term is used today, and, and all I can tell you is that we tried to disband that organization.


We put together a Kosova Protective Corps. When I was there, we tried to give the people some other reason for association. I think it's time to put the past behind them. Whatever their role in the KLA or non-KLA, they need to move into a more modern outlook today in Kosova.


Jerome McDonnell: So you think that former KLA leadership is okay in the leadership of Kosovo for independence.


GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: It depends on what they did. I mean, if the KLA leadership was involved in war crimes then they should be indicted for that. If they weren't then it should move- they should, they should move on.


Jerome McDonnell: How does an independent Kosovo better protect the Serb minorities? Why does that make it a better situation for them?


GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Yeah, that's a good question, because you know, there's not going to be an adequate level of protection of the Serb minority until people in Kosova understand it's their collective responsibility to do so. The Serbs are living in some pretty restricted areas right now. There is a significant degree of threat against them. And similarly north of the Ibar River, the Albanians aren't welcome, and there's a threat against them. So, I think that this is a matter of bridge-building and confidence-building, as well as helping to structure institutions and protect those institutions like the Police Corps that stood up, that is a multi-ethnic institution but that's had trouble assigning officers in areas where they have the, quote, "wrong ethnicity". So, I think that, you know, there are a number of specific steps that can be made.

-continues

Transcript and Audio here

[tocqueville]

33. some interesting freeper opinions on Milosevcic

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1599212/posts

[Gabi Hayes]

34. war crimes and another famous Clark

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=wesley+clark+war+crimes&btnG=Search