What We're up against with the "Religious Right" -- LONG!

[LisaLynne]

It seems as though our elected officials and perhaps a good portion of rank and file Democrats are laboring under the illusion that we are still dealing with the sort of conservatives that we have known our entire lives. They favor small governments, smaller social programs, a strong military. Yeah, maybe we disagree on the value of certain programs or how they should be enacted, some important issues like the death penalty, but in the end, we probably all want basically the same thing: a strong country and the ability for most of us to try to better our situation.

But, those are not the people we are struggling against. Although still a relatively small group, this “new breed” has extraordinary, unwarranted influence and power in the GOP and now, in our very government itself. The group I’m talking about right now look at George W. Bush as some sort of avatar of Jesus Christ, a savior of mankind on Earth, sent here to save the nation, and that’s a Christian nation to them.

I’m talking about the so-called Religious Right. Crazy Pat Robertson. The eternally vile Jerry Falwell. Focus on the Family. Concerned Women for America and an army (and yes, they LOVE to think of themselves as an army) of weekly church goers who take their marching (and voting) orders from the conservative pulpit. These people are a particular brand of Christian Fundamentalists. It’s understandable to want to dismiss these people as “fringe” or “nutjobs” and “wackos” and in a lot of ways, we’re right to do so. But, they can’t be that easily ignored. They have succeeded in gathering a lot of power for themselves and it is the frightening possibility that they are poised to exert their influence in ways that could affect every single one of us living in the United States.

We talk about them a lot here on DU, but sometimes I don’t think we get the whole picture of what these people are really like. I think we still assume that if they only saw the truth about the Bush Administration and what it’s doing to the world and to our country, they would come around.

I think they know. I think they know exactly what Bush is doing and they support it, 100%.

You can’t turn them against Bush by exposing his lies and sins. They see him in a Calvinist, once-saved-always-saved sort of way. Even those who might tut-tut at his alcohol use or drug problems will not turn against him for those things. He is chosen by God in their minds. If the flesh is weak, what does it matter when he has a God-anointed mission to accomplish?

They don’t care about pre-emptive war. They are warriors for Christ. They talk about spiritual warfare, but they really mean physical confrontation with the “forces of evil”. Those are primarily in Iraq right now, soon to be in Iran, but they are also here, in the United States, in the form of liberals and Hollywood stars, and everybody who doesn’t think and live as they do. They are all for pre-emptive war – they have a god-given mandate to force “righteousness” down everybody else’s throats and doing it with violence doesn’t bother them at all.

You can’t shame them by pointing out that Bush has started a war against the middle class and the poor. If you are poor, according to them, you have not received God’s blessings, because God gives out McMansions and plasma televisions. Why has God forsaken you, if you are poor? Because you are weak and sinful. Bad things, in their worldview, do NOT happen to good people, therefore if you get sick and can no longer work, or if you are laid off because your job was sent overseas, or if you reached old age without “making it big”, it is your fault for being weak and sinning so much. Therefore, it does not bother them to watch you suffer and die in the street. That will not sway them.

You can’t point out to them the unfairness and bigotry in being against “gay marriage”. Homosexuals, to them, are sinners. They should not have any rights, according to these people. Do you think they will be appalled by the racism inherent in GOP policies? No, they want it that way. They do not want people whose skin or religion is not like theirs to have rights. Do you think that abortion is really what they are concerned with? What they want is the control of women’s bodies. They want women back in the kitchen, without an education or a choice about how many children to have. Bigotry and prejudice is all they have. It is not something they are ashamed of.

You can’t appeal to them on the basis that our democracy is being destroyed.
They hate democracy. I can not emphasis this enough: They do not want the United States to be a democracy. They want a theocracy and that is the antithesis of democracy.

What about pointing out to them that Jesus spoke of love and tolerance? They think that’s all liberal nonsense. The liberals have weakened Jesus and ignore the truth about him. He’s really a tough, kick-ass, macho type that will destroy his enemies like Bruce Willis with a holy sword.

The environment and global warming crisis? Why would they care? They’re going to be taken up into the heavens to be with Jesus soon. Animal rights? God gave us dominion over the animals, so being cruel, torturing them, shooting tame birds in pens, and using them in any way we want, is totally acceptable. Hey, it’s actually fun! Women being denied the vaccine for cervical cancer? They are harlots having sinful sex – they deserve what they get. Education and under-funded public schools? Those schools are interested in teaching evolution – let them fall apart. Education in general is a threat to them, what with all those liberal professors actually getting students to think. Knowing more about history and other cultures actually is about the best antidote for fundamentalism that I know, so, no, they’re not big on education. US policies causing instability in the Middle East? Good – that makes them get all giddy! That has to happen in order for their fantasy to come true – Armageddon and the rapture. Torturing and killing the enemy? That’s what we’re supposed to do. Those people aren’t saved. We’re doing it for their own good. The loss of so many of our civil rights? We shouldn’t have had them in the first place because they allow us to sin.

Separation of Church and State? They want to get rid of that more than anything. They want a Christian Theocracy based on their ideas of what “Christian” is and they want the government’s only role to be punishing transgressors.

Do you think you can compromise with these people? You can not. They believe that the United States, for the survival of their very souls, must become a Christian nation and, with the use of force, exert its control on the rest of the world. There is no compromise. The stakes are too high for them.

Does what they believe make sense? No, not to a rational person. Is it insane? Yeah, it’s pretty much bat-shit crazy. Is this really what Christianity or religion in general is supposed to be about? Not as far as I can tell.

But, you see, none of that matters because no one is going to be able to convince them that they are crazy or irrational or perverting the teachings of Jesus Christ.

What I think we need to do is first really accept who these people are, what they believe, and what they want to do to our country. Then, we need to come up with a way to stop them. Giving them the facts isn’t going to work –- they already know what’s going on and they support all of it and much, much more. I would love to find a way to make them see the error of their worldview the way I saw the error of my worldview, so many, many years ago, but I honestly don’t know if that’s possible because I always had doubts and I don’t know if these people do.

If getting them to change their minds is out, we have to find a way to expose them for what they are because I still believe the majority – and I mean a vast majority – of Americans like our democracy and aren’t going to go along with these grandiose theocracy schemes. I think the challenge is still in getting more people to understand the threat and that it is abhorrently real. Because this needs to stop. Now. Before it goes any further.


----A TINY sampling of the info available on the web----
www.yuricareport.com -- lots of good info here
http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm -- this one especially relates to my post.
http://theocracywatch.blogspot.com/
http://www.harpers.org/JesusPlusNothing.html -- older article, but scary.
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/buchanan.htm -- bat-shit crazy Pat Buchanan quotes
http://www.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/6/9/113631/7685

[BOSSHOG]

1. "Christian Conservatives" are the number domestic enemy

of the Constitution today. What they want to achieve involves removing constitutional liberties from fellow americans. Sad to say, their strength is in the ignorance of their foot soldiers who have been indoctrinated to believe they cannot live the life they want in this country so the constitution must be duly adjusted. The changes they propose to our day to day lives will have not one effect upon them. They do not deserve their citizenry.

[sam sarrha]

4. check out this link..there is method in their maddness....LINK>

http://www.insider-magazine.com/ChristianMafia.htm

and you havent head ANYTHING till you have heard from the 'Dominionists'.. if you break a comandment you die.. it is worse than the stoning days of the old testiment..

[zeemike]

2. That was a long one

And mostly true,but there is weak spot in the wall that divides them and us and it is that some of them actually do believe in Jesus the Christ.
Trying to change them is a waste. All that can be done is to rescue those that believe in Jesus from there cult and return them to following the teachings of Jesus.
The must be called to repentance by strong leaders that follow Jesus and preach the true good news of the Christ.

[LisaLynne]

5. Hey, I warned ya' it was long.

;)

Seriously, though, do you think that would help? I mean, about some leaders speaking up to them about how far astray they've gone? I'm looking for hope here. :)

[zeemike]

7. Yes it would help

In fact I think it is the only way.
There are far fewer evil people in the world than we would think just by looking at what they are told is truth.
And those that actually believe in Jesus as the Christ could ot resist his commandments if they knew what he wanted them to do.
By preaching to them the actual words of Jesus it would be hard for them to continue in the believe that they now have.

[EVDebs]

21. They don't practice love of their fellow man nor themselves

When the Bible speaks of being thy brother's keeper, they run. The Greatest Commandment is a side dish to their main course of what THEIR agenda is, not God's.

See George Monbiot's article in my other post at
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=215343

Also read Christian Zionism, Evangelicals and Israel
by Gary M. Burge, Ph.D.
http://www.christianzionism.org/articlesN.asp

and

Chris Hedge's article Soldiers of Christ II in Harpers
www.harpers.org/FeelingTheHate.html

The stressing of the 'end times' prophesies and the us vs. them attitutes guaranteed to alienate and isolate these true believers just shows that the great deceiver is really well attuned to taking advantage of frail humans. Forgive them, for they know not what they do.

Oh, also check out more of the madness that requires them to demand a Third Temple be built in Jerusalem

PBS Religion and Ethics Newsweekly's Impact of Millenium on the Holy Land
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week319/cover.html

They actively are provoking Armageddon since a Third Temple would require the destruction of the Dome of The Rock Al Aqsa Mosque. And besides that, what would a Third Temple be for ? A return to Judaic sacrifices ? And where is the Ark of The Covenant that the temple houses ? I thought Christ's sacrifice was sufficient, but apparently not for Bush's Base.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

3. nice synopsis - especially the batshit crazy stuff.

Spot on about them being in the minority - which also means that at the moment, most conservatives, moderates and liberals are natural allies. Not the kind of the enemy of my enemy is my friend kind of ally, but recognition that we all have a common goal. A safe, secure and peaceful America. America's biggest enemy is the religious right. Do you think they mind General Boyton comparing his god's penis to allah? heck, no. They have multiple orgasms at the thought of a holy war. Rumsfeld, Feith, and many others deep within the administration are convinced that Rapture is coming in their lifetime, and they don't mind lending a helping hand.

These people are mentally ill, brainwashed, and dangerous.

At the end of the 1890s through the teens, and again during the 50s and 60s, some brave souls attempted to study the differences between the normal population and the ultra-religious. Although our knowledge base and terminology have changed radically, there were indications that they were on to something. There was a correlation between extremely strong religious feelings and certain kinds of mental illness. In the 1970s, efforts were made to follow up on those studies, but even then the relgious mafia managed to scuttle those studies. I suspect that the answer will be murky, but informative. I suspect that the personality profile of some of the ultra-religious is that of the follower. The same kind of people cheered Hitler, Churchill, Benito, Mao, simply because they followed strong figures who made sense to them in their slice of history and context. These people follow Falwell, Robertson, Elgin, Graham, and hundreds of evangelical and baptist leaders because it is in their charector to follow, not lead. There is a smaller segment which loves to lead, regardless of the topic. They get off on the power, the control and the adulation. Lots of those in smaller churches, too. Then, there is the segment made up of true believers. They have a mental defect, one which pushes endorphins, hormones, and excites their adrenal glands on the topic of religion. They are incapable of rational thought most of the time, and more than being willing participants, they are consumed by the ideas ot their religion. Rational thinking can slip its way in, like don't put your hand into boiling water, drive on the right side of the road, etc. But even these momentary lapses can be easily swayed and changed by their religious thoughts.

The sheeple are easily changed. If you prove that their gilded god-like leaders are little more than opportunists and nutcases, AND if you give them a reasonable alternative (That is extremely important) they will shift their paradigms, their beliefs and their allegience.

the born-again, self-proclaimed greedy leaders will merely find a new avenue, like becoming a window replacement salesman, carnival barker or politician.

The last group should be on medication.

[LisaLynne]

6. That's really interesting.

As I alluded in my post, I was raised in a pretty much fundamentalist christian religion, but I always had questions. Always. Since I was like 7. So, it's always interested me why I never accepted it fully, even though I was surrounded by it, and other people go their whole lives, it seems, without questioning.

Your post gives me some hope, too, about maybe changing some minds. It seems as though it would be a pretty easy thing to prove that someone like, say, "Diamond Mine" Pat Robertson is an opprotunist, but of course, the accusations and proof would have to come from the "right" sort of person, I would think, in order for him/her to be taken seriously. On the other hand, I wonder what sort of alternative they could be offered. Actually, if they weren't so intent on forcing everybody else to be like them, I think they might be mostly harmless. Sort of return to the days before they were turned into a political machine.

Thanks for your post -- it's given me some more stuff to think about. :)

[pnwmom]

9. Have you thought about writing a memoir?

Maybe, a spiritual memoir?

[LisaLynne]

11. Not really ...

because my life is so boring! :) Seriously, though, I do sort of wish more people with similar backgrounds to mine would ... Maybe gather a bunch of stories together as one book or something. Just ordinary people who were like, "Hey, this doesn't work for me" and why and how they "got out", so to speak. :)

[pnwmom]

14. I know I'd be interested in reading that sort of book. n/t

[ruggerson]

34. Thank you

I've believed this for years. They are a cult composed of people with various stages of mental illness.

It is quite evident to anyone familiar with the basic tenets of human psychology that Pat Robertson has a personality disorder. And yet here is the man who basically founded the modern "Christian conservative" movement.

Anyone who wonders how the Nazis actually took over a country need look no further than the "religious right" in modern day America.

[MountainLaurel]

8. Great stuff there

And I think you're dead on. I was pondering this issue the other day and realized that most liberals' exposure to the religious reich is seeing quotes from Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell on the TV news. They see Robertson making comments about the evils and feminism and think "What a loon." That sort of knowledge is a far cry from that of liberals who, say, grew up in Lynchburg (Falwell's theocratic kingdom) and know precisely what these people are capable of, how they seized control and how they rule their dominions afterward, what their ultimate goals are, and what happens to people who oppose them. This latter group does not pooh-pooh the fundamentalists or laugh at their seemingly crazy antics: They fear them, as they should.

[Coyote_Bandit]

10. Faith based decisions (e.g., voting)

are the result of faith based rationale. You are quite correct in pointing out that their motivation and resulting actions will not be changed by addressing the issues they talk about, their own self-interest, or concerns for the future of this country or the world.

Many, many years ago I studied history, business, political science, education and law at a fundamentalist Christian university (please don't hold that against me). Some of my former professors and classmates have authored some of the inspirational tomes of the religious right. I have always been ill at ease with their methodology and their agenda (in fairness, many of my classmates were as well). I have given the matter a considerable amount of thought and have come to certain conclusions - conclusions that touch on the fundamentals of the Christian faith and their application within both the church and society.

Currently, I am working on my own text. It is a criticism of the fundamental assumptions that justify the pursuit of political agendas in the name of God. Wish me luck on finding a publisher - and preferably one who will understand that my text is pure social commentary and not just more theological drivel.

[LisaLynne]

12. I'm wishing you all the luck I have!

That sounds like a very interesting, timely, and important work. Good luck!

[Coyote_Bandit]

15. Thanks! n/t

[atommom]

13. Great post. I don't know what it will take to stop these people

... especially given that so many of them would welcome an actual physical war with the rest of us. (It would be a holy war, and it would bring them closer to the End Times.) I wish I were exaggerating.

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

16. K&R

[atommom]

17. K in hopes of another R. ;)

:kick:

[Marnieworld]

18. Me! I did it!

I read it earlier and just noticed it needed a vote now. Good post.

[LiberalUprising]

19. Bravo, perfectly said

K&R

[Taverner]

20. How do we stop them? BY ANY MEANS NECESARRY

Seriously

[mitchum]

23. Yes!

By any means necessary

[JudyM]

31. Check out the Network of Spiritual Progressives - alternative to the RR

This group encompasses many faiths and is intended to offer a better, real values-driven approach to how government should be operating.

One of the founders just put out a great book (well received by the press, too):
The Left Hand of God - Taking Back Our Country from the Religious Right.

And they are having their first conference this May in DC.

Check them out -- this is the glimmer of hope I'm keeping an eye on!

[mitchum]

22. An excellent post! You are correct; these people are pathological...

and can not be changed by reason.
But they must be stopped by any means necessary.

[many a good man]

24. Religious Right: They are cultists. Let's treat them like terrorists.

And by that I don't mean the way bushco treats terrorists. I mean treat them the same way true progressives would fight terrorism.

Progressives attack terrorism based on reason, principle, and the rule of law. We don't overreact and fan their flaming passions. There is little chance of changing those already afflicted so we must focus on preventing the creation of new generations of recruits. We do that by standing strong on universal principles of justice, morality, and reason.

There are a multitude of reasons, both personal and societal, that lead people to religious extremism. Progressives may not be able to solve young people's personal problems, but enlightened social policies can mitigate a lot of the circumstances that create personal problems.

The attraction to religion, IMHO, is primarily caused by the desire:
a) to belong;
b) to do something valuable;
c) be part of something bigger than oneself.

A progressive society can fulfill all those needs.

We can affirm their right to religious expression, but they must stay within the law. The laws of reason. They will be afforded proper rights at all times but punished to the full extent of the law when found guilty of violating others. We must work tirelessly to build a civil society here and around the world that people want to be part of.

[LisaLynne]

25. What a great post!

I agree that there isn't a lot we can do to change those whose minds have already succumbed, but yes, maybe we should focus on the coming generations. I hope we have the chance to build a progressive society that can we inclusive of all so people won't feel pushed to extremes.

[kainah]

26. the cult of Bush

The only way to react to them is the same way you would react to a member of a cult. Refer to this checklist and see how many of the characteristics apply to the religious right base of GWB:

http://www.csj.org/infoserv_cult101/checklis.htm

We should call them what they are -- a cult. Then we need some expert deprogrammers.

[Clara T]

27. These people can not be reasoned with

K&R

[Freedom_from_Chains]

28. Growing up in a fundamentalist church

I have know for years how crazy these people are and throughout the years I have just assumed that most rational people understood that also. It has only been in recent years that I began to understand that most people really don't know how insane they are. It is just difficult for them to grasp how people living in a current times can have such a warped world view. But you are absolutely correct on all your points, this is truly how they see the world which is precisely what makes them so dangerous.

[left of center]

29. They are truely the American Taliban. Their irrational and

fearful behavior makes them, in turn, suspicious and hateful of everything that is not exactly like themselves. When you oppose them, your are in their minds actually opposing God himself. Therefore, there is no need for dialogue. They are right and you are wrong, period!

[tomreedtoon]

30. Is "Moral Orel" satire?

If you haven't seen it, it's the show on Cartoon Network's Adult Swim, late night, that shows a right-wing, insanely religious town done in the style of "Davey and Goliath." It is supposedly satire, but I dunno...

It has librarians who cull books for regular burnings, a preacher who couches hellfire sermons in a persuasive voice, nuts who picket such evil anti-Christian movies as "The Wizard of Oz" and "It's a Wonderful Life," children who quiver in fear at the mention of Catholics (who aren't "really" Christians) and a father who regularly beats Christ into his son with a belt.

That isn't satire. It's reportage.

And take a look at the map of the fictional state "Statesota" and the town of "Moralton" in the show's opening titles. The state consists of the rural areas of Missouri and Kansas, and the town is about where Kansas City is. A stronghold of religious intolerance.

[bobbieinok]

32. good sites that monitor religious right

http://www.talk2action.com

http://community.livejournal.com/dark_christian/

talk2action links to many sites, for example

http://mainstreambaptist.blogspot.com/

a site from OK that closely monitors the Southern Baptist Convention

dogempeor, a poster at dark_christian and talk2action and elsewhere (google dogemperor), posts a lot about dominionist activities in the fundamentalist and pentecostal churches.........dogemporer had a list after Katrina of the aid agencies that were dominionist-run

http://community.livejournal.com/dark_christian/245640.html

[NashVegas]

33. The Reason Why They Seem to Be Winning

Is that they have an actual goal. Most in the mainstream camp take it for granted that the rights we grew up with will remain with us. They can't imagine the Theocrats would actually be successful at overturning things. So they don't fight back.

For that reason alone, I'm willing to give the Freakshow as much rope as it needs to completely hang itself. I don't think the mainstream will wake up until and unless they truly see how they are affected by this.

[meow2u3]

35. You can't tell'em anything--except this

You might be able to tell these people that when they use Jesus' name to justify genocide, cover up crimes against humanity, and other horrific actions, they're far closer to hell than any gay or lesbian--they're committing BLASPHEMY--a sin God hates more than any sexual weakness! Question is, will they listen?

You might be able to tell them that they're about as Christian as Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda are Muslim. Question is, will they listen?