A proposal for a corporate death penalty

[boobooday]

We all believe in personal responsibility for individuals. That is, people make choices, and when they make choices, they must be willing to face the consequences of those choices.

But I think our country has been bamboozled by a very long propaganda campaign that frames every issue as one of "individual responsibility."

So we focus on getting smokers to quit, while corporations dump toxins into the air we breathe and the water we drink. We focus on gun laws (a worthy cause to be sure) but not enough on the stockpiles of weapons our own country produces and sells around the world. Right wingers focus on the individual choices of women rather than the reasons for those choices, which are often tied to a woman's economic plight and that of her children. Children who can't adjust to the sausage factory that education has become are drugged, as if they are mentally ill, as are adults who are rightly stressed out and pissed off (Ambien to sleep, anti-depressants to get through the day). Rather than providing healthy foods, physical education, art and musical training in our schools, we blame our children for being lazy and fat.

Bill O'Liely points his finger into the camera and tells the elderly, infirm and impoverished who were unable to escape the wrath of Katrina to suck it up and get a job. Bush tells a woman who works three jobs to feed her children that she is a model American. All failures are personal, and if you struggle, it's because there's SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOU. This frame works very well to keep people isolated and afraid, noses to the grindstone. This works very well to keep people quiescent.

Where is the social responsibility? Where is the collective responsibility? Why are only individuals held accountable, while institutions and corporations are not? If an individual kills someone, they might face the death penalty. Why aren't corporations who are negligent, or fraudulent, who wreak death and financial devastation ever sentenced to death?

We've got to reframe this debate. Perhaps since our government wants to treat corporations as individuals, we should begin by proposing a corporate death penalty for companies that poison our environment or otherwise kill or injure individuals. If they want the rights of individuals, they must take on the responsibilities as well.

So what do you think? Corporate death penalty? First in line: Halliburton and the Carlyle Group.

[ClassWarrior]

1. I like it. Very powerful.

NGU.

[KAT119]

56. K&R! K&R! K&R!K&R! K&R! X a Trillion!

[yurbud]

2. oil companies would be in line first.

[yurbud]

3. PROBLEM: how often do individuals with a lot of money get

death penalty? Magnify that by a hundred and that's the likelihood of taking down a corporation.

But I still like the idea.

[yurbud]

4. Halliburton and Carlyle bring up a different reform: ban on

revolving door from gov't to corporations and high finance.

No president, vice president, cabinet member, or general rank at the Pentagon should be able to cash in in private industry when they cash out of their government job. If they do, they should lose their gov't pension and be banned from returning to elected office.

[yurbud]

5. and they should have their left nut hit with a ball peen hammer

[boobooday]

8. OH MY GOD -- NO

Their RIGHT nut.

:rofl:

[yurbud]

34. we could compromise, use a mallet and hit both in one shot.

[Indy_Dem_Defender]

57. Nope that's too much pain to quick

Your giving them a break getting it over with quickly, Stretch it out over a longer period of time, set a blaze all their body hair with a lighter, start by sticking it up their nose and then up their ass!

[boobooday]

6. Oh yes. The revolving door is a fundamental problem

Another one that must be addressed if we are to get our country on the right path.

[yurbud]

35. more fundamental than lobbyists, who are just hired guns

[boobooday]

58. Yes, the lobbyists are the ones walking through the revolving door

Congressional staff --- lobbyist --- and then back again.

This kind of crap is at the heart of the Abramhoff scandal, too.

[converted_democrat]

7. K&R.. One of the best posts I've read on DU to date..

:applause:

[nuxvomica]

9. The legal ability to do so already exists

Corporations exist at the pleasure of the state that chartered them. Most states have provisions for revoking a corporation's charter if it acts illegally or against the public interest. One could make a case that any corporations that externalize excessively are acting against the public interest. Imagine if charter revocation were common. The threat of a such a penalty would move stockholders to either divest or push the management to reforms. It would not only clean up corporate activities but would force corporations to become more efficient and innovative.

[ClassWarrior]

11. The symbolic power of the phrase "corporate death penalty" is still valid.

Maybe we need to start demanding revokation, calling it the "corporate death penalty."

NGU.

[nuxvomica]

13. I agree that it is a powerful phrase

A good place to start would be Delaware, where many corporations are chartered. This is what Delaware law says about revocation:

(a) The Court of Chancery shall have jurisdiction to revoke or forfeit the charter of any corporation for abuse, misuse or nonuse of its corporate powers, privileges or franchises. The Attorney General shall, upon the Attorney General's own motion or upon the relation of a proper party, proceed for this purpose by complaint in the county in which the registered office of the corporation is located.
(b) The Court of Chancery shall have power, by appointment of receivers or otherwise, to administer and wind up the affairs of any corporation whose charter shall be revoked or forfeited by any court under any section of this title or otherwise, and to make such orders and decrees with respect thereto as shall be just and equitable respecting its affairs and assets and the rights of its stockholders and creditors.
(c) No proceeding shall be instituted under this section for nonuse of any corporation's powers, privileges or franchises during the first 2 years after its incorporation.

I just found it at this site which is a portal to corporate laws by state:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/topics/state_statutes.html#corporations

[boobooday]

14. Let's use it!

Has this ever been invoked, do you know?

How does it work, like a civil suit?

[nuxvomica]

16. I'm sure it's been tried but I don't know if there's been success

Inspired by your thread, I've been googling the topic and found this site which has instructions:
http://www.celdf.org/cdp/cdp1.asp

[boobooday]

22. This looks like an excellent resource

I want to read it and see if this is a viable strategy.

A lot of interesting historical information there. I like this quote:

"The colonists did not make a revolution over a tax on tea. They fought
for many reasons, but chiefly to create a nation where citizens were the
government and ruled corporations. So even as Americans were
routing the king’s armies, they vowed to put corporations under
democratic command."

Time for us to take command! Thanks for sharing that link.

[nuxvomica]

30. Yes. It wasn't the tax on tea that sparked the Boston Tea Party

It was that a British corporation was exempt from the tax. Children should be taught our anti-corporatist origins in school.

[boobooday]

32. That's why our children are only being taught

The information that is on tests developed by corporations.

And then they wander the halls of their poorly funded schools, looking for the only bright and shiny thing there . . . the Coke machine!

[sheelz]

20. Who would do the revoking?

State legislators, Governors or SEC?? So we know who to target.

[nuxvomica]

33. I think it's usually the state attorney general

It depends on the state but it could be the AG or the Sec. of State. Check out the various links posted on this thread for more info.

[Yupster]

43. And who would get the assets?

So let's say that right now I own $ 30,000 of Pepsico stock and Pepsico gets the death penalty.

My stock becomes worthless and I lose my $ 30,000.

Pepsico's assets would be sold off I guess? Probably maybe for $ 1,000 of assets for my $ 30,000 of stock?

So I'm out my $ 30,000. I get that.

So who would get the $ 1,000 after the assets are sold off?

The government?

I guess the bondholders would claim first rights to any assets remaining.

Either way though I'm out my whole $ 30,000. And this is a good thing?

[sheelz]

45. And what about the lost jobs.

We can't afford to lose anymore jobs in this county.

[boobooday]

49. This is how they avoid accountability

Doesn't that sound like extortion to you? If you want to keep your job, you have to tolerate extortion, environmental degredation, etc? Now shut up and get back to work?

That's exactly how they want you to respond to calls for accountability.

[boobooday]

47. Well, if the corporation is defrauding the stockholders

I would say they would be paid off in the liquidation.

However, it would also make investors more responsible for making sure they aren't investing in a criminal enterprise. Transparency would be essential.

[Nite Owl]

10. Love it!

It is the catch 22 for them. They insist on the free speech for corporations (so that they can freely give $$$$$) so they have to subject to the same laws.

What about car manufacturers who make dangerous vehicles and medical devices and oh let's not forget big pharma.

[annabanana]

12. k&r. . . . . . . . . .n/t

[unblock]

15. but ... but ... but ... even eeeevil corporations make jobs!

and the only people you'd be harming are the poor widows who invested in it who need those quarterly dividends to survive!

:sarcasm:

[unblock]

17. interestingly, the phrase "corporate death penalty" is already in use

but it's meant for something FAR more tame than execution.

it refers to being broken up into multiple pieces under antitrust laws. fascinating, how turning one massive entity that's breaking basic laws of capitalism into several smaller, viable entities and barring them from colluding so that they will actually compete, as per the ideals of capitalism, is viewed as "death".

the appropriate analogy to human execution for corporations would something more like shutting them down, period. even revoking their corporate charter wouldn't necessarily mean "death", because they could simply morph into another legal structure, such as a partnership.

[boobooday]

23. I think if they do harm

They should be dissolved, with the assets going to either the employees or the victims. That'd be good for the economy, wouldn't it? Good for competition too. :-)

[Dora]

36. But they're mercurial in nature.

If a piece of mercury is "broken" into other pieces, those pieces will blend together and eventually all become one again.

Even if a corporation is effectively broken in to several smaller, more competitive companies, they'll simply start the game all over again... buying each other out and eventually becoming a monopoly all over again.

This very thing just happened when SBC "bought" AT&T. Now we have AT&T all over again.

[unblock]

40. well, that only happens because market conditions change

or, more likely, political conditions change.

it's no surprise that the banana republicans would never DREAM of derailing such a merger, but ya gotta think that a democratic administration would look long and hard at it.

[boobooday]

48. We can stop consolidation/monopolies

There used to be laws against it. :-)

[Occulus]

53. Yup. The AT&T logo appeared on my bill. My jaw dropped.

I had been intentionally avoiding AT&T. I can't do that anymore; now I have to find a different local carrier. Not that there aren't any, but it's a hassle I can't currently deal with- which is exactly how they want it.

Fuckers.

[Canuckistanian]

18. If they want to be treated as persons in the law

They should face the same penalties as a flesh and blood person.

That sword should cut two ways. But it obviously doesn't right now.

Watch "The Corporation" and decide if corporate entities should be made to pay or not.

[banana republican]

19. If a corporation is convicted of a feloney it should

be prohibited from functioning as a business for the length of its sentence.


Fines & penalties should include under fundeded pension plans; unemployment costs; retraining; and anything else related to the former employees finding a new job. These cost should be given a priority in bankruptcy and paid first out of the sale of the corporate assets.

Additionally, these penalties & fines should be assessed against the "responsible individuals" who made the decisions to break the law to the extent that they exceed the amounts received from the sale of corporate assets.


YES I SUPPORT A CORP DEATH PENALTY.....

[postulater]

21. Where do we start?

[boobooday]

24. This link from nuxvomica looks like a good start

http://www.celdf.org/cdp/cdp1.asp

I'm going to read it tomorrow and see. It looks like some environmental groups explored this option.

I will update!

[sheelz]

25. We should send this to Joe Biden

and make Delaware first

[EVDebs]

26. The movie The Corporation website

""To more precisely assess the "personality" of the corporate "person," a checklist is employed, using actual diagnostic criteria of the World Health Organization and the DSM-IV, the standard diagnostic tool of psychiatrists and psychologists. The operational principles of the corporation give it a highly anti-social "personality": It is self-interested, inherently amoral, callous and deceitful; it breaches social and legal standards to get its way; it does not suffer from guilt, yet it can mimic the human qualities of empathy, caring and altruism. Four case studies, drawn from a universe of corporate activity, clearly demonstrate harm to workers, human health, animals and the biosphere. Concluding this point-by-point analysis, a disturbing diagnosis is delivered: the institutional embodiment of laissez-faire capitalism fully meets the diagnostic criteria of a "psychopath." ""

The Corporation detailed synopsis
http://www.thecorporation.com/index.php?page_id=2

Using the DSM-IV criteria, you make a good case for murder with some of these globalized 'psychopaths' !

[rman]

27. It also contains a few examples of using state laws

to have corporations 'sentenced to death'.

These state laws are referred to on reclaimdemocracy.org, a website dealing with "corporate personhood":


"In 1776 we declared independence not only from British rule, but also from the corporations of England that controlled trade and extracted wealth from the US (and other) colonies. Thus, in the early days of our country, we only allowed corporations to be chartered (licensed to operate) to serve explicitly as a tool to gather investment and disperse financial liability in order to provide public goods, such as construction of roads, bridges or canals.
After fighting a revolution for freedom from colonialism, our country's founders retained a healthy fear of the similar threats posed by corporate power and wisely limited corporations exclusively to a business role. These state laws, many of which remain on the books today, imposed conditions such as these:

- A charter was granted for a limited time.
- Corporations were explicitly chartered for the purpose of serving the public interest - profit for shareholders was the means to that end.
- Corporations could engage only in activities necessary to fulfill their chartered purpose.
- Corporations could be terminated if they exceeded their authority or if they caused public harm.
- Owners and managers were responsible for criminal acts they committed on the job.
- Corporations could not make any political contributions, nor spend money to influence legislation.
- A corporation could not purchase or own stock in other corporations, nor own any property other than that necessary to fulfill its chartered purpose."


http://reclaimdemocracy.org/
Corporate History Primer
http://reclaimdemocracy.org/pdf/primers/hidden_corporate_history.pdf
Timeline of Personhood Rights and Powers
http://reclaimdemocracy.org/personhood/personhood_timeline.pdf

[boobooday]

29. These are wonderful

I've printed out the flyers. Great stuff. Thanks!

"These state laws, many of which remain on the books today."

Hmmmm. This would be an interesting study. Reading the list of verboten activities, it looks like many of our modern corporations violate them all the time.

And the part about "serving the public interest." Wow. That's a radical notion.

[boobooday]

28. I have been wanting to see this movie

I'm going to buy it today.

[Brewman_Jax]

31. Absolutely!

Considering the damage a major corporation can do to whole community, city, and state economies and the population is factors more than a single crook with a gun. In addition, there should be provisions that the corporate board members have their personal assets seized, just like the drug arrest and RICO seizures. Don't let these senior corporate scumbags get away just because they wear fancy suits and have large offices.

[B Calm]

37. If the republicans were serious about controlling illegal immigration,

they would fine the hell out of corporations that hire any illegals.. You'll never ever see that though!! Instead they will blow a bunch of bull about patrolling the borders..

[boobooday]

50. This is why they aren't serious

And are trying so desperately to pretend that they are.

Their "base" is quite rabid on this issue, and it could be their downfall.

We need to reframe it as "corporate responsibility" like you say.

[genieroze]

38. I'm against the death penalty, unless you mean to put these corporations

to death, then I'm all for it.

[Just Me]

39. How's about just "corporate responsibility"? We don't want to KILL,....

,...business. We want businesses, especially the huge ones, to be held to the same demands and expectations of human beings.

Corporations are more resourceful than individuals and find loopholes to escape laws. They shouldn't be allowed to do what would otherwise be considered "evasion" by common folks. Corporations are so powerful they PAY to get favorable laws passed. They shouldn't be allowed to do what would otherwise be considered "bribery" and/or "blackmail" by common folks.

[boobooday]

46. It wouldn't kill business, just the organizations who are unethical

Or harm people with their actions.

Dissolve the corporation. Another will form to take its place. If you treat your workers fairly, and don't pillage the environment, you can stay in business.

[B Calm]

51. Republicans are afraid of fining big business. Hell I had a republican

co worker tell me once (when we were talking about corporate polluters)that the company will shut the doors if their made to comply to environmental laws. We were talking about the second largest polluter in the State of Indiana. Several years down the road they shut the doors to the plant anyways, filed bankruptcy, stole pensions, and bought it's sister plant in Kansas. Because of bankruptcy, the State of Indiana was responsible for cleaning the site up.

[boobooday]

52. The same old arguments they use about the minimum wage

It's just plain old extortion. The people bend over backwards, the corporation takes what they want then moves on, leaving the mess behind, and laughing all the way to the bank.

As employers, they demand loyalty from employees and communities, but they offer nothing in return.

[B Calm]

54. They use extortion for tax breaks, they use extortion for wage concessions

they use extortion to pollute, and the republicans fall over backwards and even help them.

[B Calm]

55. Republicans = Individual Responsibility and Corporate Freedom

Democrats = Corporate Responsibility and Individual Freedom

[Wilms]

41. K&R n/t

[eppur_se_muova]

42. Thanks, booboo. I've felt for a long time that we need this.

Right now corporations have so many more rights, and even more power, than individuals. Yet even if the death penalty is unacceptable for individuals, it should certainly be a penalty that corporations have to face for dumping toxins and covering up lethally defective products.

[undergroundpanther]

44. LOVE IT!

I would like to sign up as a company executioner...That is one job that would be a delight for me! (Panther gets busy sharpening hir claws and fangs)

[upi402]

59. Wow, I'm usually against the death penalty

but these demons are not human, they are dehuminizers.