Got a question for those who know about government snooping......

[Minnesota Libra]

...I'm probably not even going to ask this question properly so someone with a whole lot more knowledge than I have needs to help me with the question itself and the answer.

If and when Democrats/Liberals wrestle back Congress and the House can the wire tapping and government snooping be turned back?? Or is the secret wiretapping and snooping a permanent part of our lives now? In other words, imho, are we now living the book "1984" or the days of Nazi Germany??

I know that in this mess there are voting irregularity issues that also need to be overcome with the return of paper ballots. Ok, I understand that much, believe I'll be asking questions about this in the future too. Right now though my question concerns whether the "Homeland Security" extreme snooping abilities are now a permanent part of our lives?? I know I'm asking for a lot of information here but try to explain how permanent these laws. Short of an out an out revolution in this country will we ever return to the days when the government had to show "just cause" to get a court order to snoop on us??

I don't understand all this SO PLEASE keep this as simple as possible.

[RufusEarl]

1. Here's what i think about wiretapping!

I believe under any other admin this would have never happened. The Bu$h admin was overreaching when they started the NSA program, back in 2001/

Any other Admin will and would follow the law and go to FISA, and obtain a warrants. I'm going to assume really big here and say we'll take back the WH in 08, meaning we'll have a law abiding president in the oval office.

[TreasonousBastard]

2. Snooping's been going on since the...

beginning of time, and every intelligence or law enforcement agency here and around the world is good at it and likes doing it, so it won't go away. The NSA already has the ability to legally intercept microwave and satellite transnsmissions, and does it regularly. ECHELON and CARNIVORE were around long before these guys. And, warrants aren't all that difficult to get.

I remember the snooping J-Edgar-in-a-skirt was doing during the 60s, and long before that he had files on just about everyone and had no problem blackmailng politicians. Really nasty things went on during the McCarthy witchunt days, and we can trace such gummint evildoings all the way back to the Alien and Sedition Acts.

However, the FBI abuses from back then have been cutailed and the abuses we're seeing now would also probably be curtailed if and when the adults take back the government. Rarely, if ever, before has an administration refused to even give lip service to constitutional protections, or even common decency or sense, as this one has. Without the urging from above, the agencies will naturally curtail thse fun, but largely unproductive, activites.

[Minnesota Libra]

4. OK, so if I understand you, the wiretapping and snooping has.......

.....always been around but it's just the out and out disregard for any law at all that makes it different this time around??

I remember reading about J Edgar Hoover and McCarthy and personally that's what worries me most - when it might become patriotic to return to the McCarthy days.

edited for spelling

[TreasonousBastard]

5. Pretty much so. In the old days...

everyone knew what they were doing was shady and things didn't get as out of hand as much as they are now.

The McCarthy days were the worst, to my knowledge, and, yeah, returning to that sort of national mindset is scary indeed. The abuses back then were different, with things like the Hollywood blacklist, but the mindset that we have to do this sort of thing to save the nation is back again.

Besides the drunk Senator from Wisconsin, there was the House Un-American Activities Committee, which was finally abolished a while ago, and they managed to wreak all that havoc in the name of saving the country from the Red Menace. The White House rarely got involved, though, and stayed above the fray, rarely openly supporting any of this stuff.

Now it's terraists, and the White House is leading the charge with new technology, new law, and orders to wipe 'em all out. With no one in charge thinking twice about it, I'm amazed things aren't worse than they are.

[Minnesota Libra]

6. I really want to make sure I understand this so please forgive me.......

......for continuing to question you on this.

From what I'm understanding we are stuck with the snooping, wiretapping, etc. OK, now from my way of thinking that completely removes the "democracy" part of our government. So what are we now?? Are we totalitarian, socialist, what?? Will there ever be any representation again??

I guess what I'm asking is that assuming the wiretapping, etc is here to stay where do we go from here as a country??

[TreasonousBastard]

7. We're still a democracy, in that...

we can, and occasionally have, thrown the bums out. And we are free to lobby and demand things from our congresscritters. As bad as it sometimes gets, we have the ability to change things.

But, ANY government will be tempted to exceed its authority. That's just the nature of the beast, and it's up to us and everyone fighting these things to stay alert and keep resisting it as much as possible.

The ACLU, EPIC, and a bunch of other organizations are our strength in this fight, and should be supported since we can't do it entirely on our own.

[jilln]

3. Did you not just see the Democrats help keep the Patriot Act?

They're not gonna give us back those liberties ever, at least not without a MLK-style campaign and lots of civil disobedience.