Hillary will probably be HOWARD DEAN'ED in '08 (lose in early primaries)

[Proud2BAmurkin]

If the numbers aren't there in the polls come time for the primary why do these rePUKE pundits think Hillary will sail to the nomination?

Not happening. Democrats in early primaries pay attention to "electability" now and they aren't going to put up a candidate who can't win.

If the polls show other candidats with a better chance of beating the rePUKE it won't matter how much money or "machine" any Democrat has, they won't get the nomination.

[bullimiami]

1. i agree, they are starting now to drive her out while they can.

i predict it wont work.

[LSK]

2. but she has no support from Progressives and the Anti-war left

So I dont think she will even get that far.

[FreedomAngel82]

10. Right

I think the perfect time for liberals/progressives to run will be in 2008. Those like Feingold, Kerry, Gore (if he does which I'm not holding my breath though sadly). 2008 will be interesting.

[Warpy]

11. She also has no support from a lot of moderates

who are as heartily sick of the name Clinton as they are of the name Bush.

Party conservatives love her. That's her support, right there.

[mattclearing]

24. Yeah, but there are like what, 10 of them? n/t

[adigal]

3. Good - she will suck up all the negative attention

and the others can fly below the radar and get some traction.

[onehandle]

4. Is she running? So far, not. nt

[SnoopDog]

5. I Disagree...

Hillary is already the candidate.... That is why the Repubs and talking heads are always mentioning her.

You see, Hillary is more on their side than ours, and that is why they are pushing her name.

$.02

[Proud2BAmurkin]

7. Hillary's already the candidate because the REPUKES say so?

Are you kidding?

[SnoopDog]

14. It is more of the case that..

the Rushs and Hannities are pushing her name.

The Repuks win either way - if she is the candidate she will loose - repubs win OR she wins and she is more middle-right than a real Dem....

[FreedomAngel82]

16. But where is the proof?

So far the only type of sign I even think could be one is she not long ago hired James Carville on her campaign.

[Nostradammit]

20. Who is Carville married to again?

Would you trust your campaign to someone who's married to Matalin?

How many secrets can you keep from your spouse?

[SnoopDog]

22. Here is what I mean and I do not have proof...

Why is it that the right-wing radio heads always talking about 'Hillary for President' and not anybody else. Why? Because I think they are push her name. Howard Dean - a real Dem who probably would be President but 'they' Screamed him out. Hillary either wins the primary but looses the Presidency (because no Repuk would every vote for her) or she wins the Presidency and she is middle-right person who won't help fix what's wrong with America. She did vote for tax cuts for millionaires and the Patriot Act...

Dean was outed by the same people you rig elections...

Just my $.03 (add a penny)

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

6. Unlike for Howard Dean, all I can say is.... GOOD.

I personally would love to see our candidate get more than 160 EVs in 2008.

[WI_DEM]

8. No, Dean wasn't the establishment candidate but Hillary is

so I don't think she will be "Howard Deaned"

[Proud2BAmurkin]

12. neither was Kerry

Dean was the favorite, the polls all showed most people betting on Dean to be the candidate.

Primary voters had something else in mind

[WI_DEM]

19. Yes, but the establishment got together to try and stop him

because they thought he would be another McGovern. I didn't say they all got behind Kerry. I don't think you'll see the establishment go to those lengths and produce the kind of ads that were used against Dean to stop Hillary.

Also, Hillary is much stronger than Dean was within the party and rank and file than Dean was. Dean was an insurgent--Hillary is not. She will also have even more money than Dean had. No, she will not be a pushover if she runs.

[quinnox]

9. I still am not convinced she will even run

I'll believe it when I see it.

[FreedomAngel82]

18. I'm with you

I just don't think it's going to happen either.

[jumpoffdaplanet]

27. I'm sure she isn't planning it either

Why?

Because she hasn't yet been Senator while the Dems are in the majority.

Why run for P. before she has the fun of chairing some committees?

All she's got to do so far is being in the powerless minority.

She has lots of muscle to flex, and I don't see she leaving the Senate until she has gotten that chance.

I wish people would stop playing the game of tearing her down for something she has no plans to do.

[xultar]

13. She's smart. She's not going to run. But the Rethuglicans have so

many Dems fooled we don't know our asses from our elbows.

They have just who they want in our party to hate her...just like they did with Dean and Clark they are playing the same game and fucking up our nomination proces.

I don't want to hear any one say that Freepers and Dem Circle shooting squad don't have anything in common. The Freepers, Fundies and Dem Circle shooting squad all hate the Clintons.

That right there should tell y'all something.

[FormerDittoHead]

15. YEeeeeAaaaaHhhhh! n/t

[wtbymark]

17. That's great!

Let the pukes think she's our 'man', they can waist all their time, energy and money trashing her. If she's smart and really with us and not agaist us, she will play along and bait them for 2 more years and then graciously bow out.

[Jersey Devil]

21. Can we Dems at least wait until November to start eating ourselves?

I see in this string (not your original post) that it will not be pretty at DU when the nomination process begins in earnest.

Whether she is the right person to nominate or not, as far as I am concerned she is a damned good Senator for the State of New York and we'd be hard put to find someone who could do better in that spot. So why are some intent on spreading Karl Rove poison before she is even re-elected to the Senate? For all we know she may never even run for President. If she doesn't, will her Democratic detractors be happy to have trashed her anyway?

[Baconfoot]

23. I doubt I'll get an email from ANY Democratic org calling her a radical NT

[robertpaulsen]

25. How could Hillary be Howard Dean'ed when she's DLC?

I can definitely see her losing the primaries if she decides to run because the left is disgusted by her support for the Iraq war. But I cannot see her being Howard Dean'ed. There is a difference.

[Double T]

26. It's too early for the political sages with their crystal balls........

to be making any predictions. Let's not shoot ourselves in both feet before the starting gun is fired to begin the race.

[Strawman]

28. Hillary can never be "Howard Deaned"

Everything she says and does is scripted. Dean wasn't. They are rhetorical opposites.

The sheeple say they want a straight shooter. Until they get one. Then they stand at the water cooler the next day repeating lame Jay Leno jokes about the Dean scream or conventional MSM "wisdom" about how Dean is a "loose cannon," unelectable and unpresidential.

Hillary will survive (and has survived) the media. The right will attack her and she'll spend the whole campaign proving she's not the "awful liberal" the RW tries to make her out to be. She'll make an effort to show America that she's really just a Main Street middle-of-the-road status quo conservative. She was taught a lesson when she took on the health care system and failed. She won't go out on any more limbs. Not rhetorically and not in terms of big policy changes. Conflict between Hillary and the Republicans will play out in the same predictable ways that fit within the same predictable scripts that media pundits like to regurgitate every presidential campaign season. They'll love the horserace between Hillary versus the next heir to the mantle of Ray-gun. It will validate everything they always say.

And then even if she wins, she'll have to govern conservatively. And if we're not satisifed with that we'll be told to STFU be grateful that at least we have a President who pre-empts and softens the worst of what the right wing would do and that's the best that can reasonably be expected.

Howard Dean's rhetoric forced him to be more of a liberal that he actually was. Hillary Clinton's boxes her into being more conservative than she actually is. Howard Dean had to be an order shatterer to gain power and Hillary Clinton has to be an agent of the status quo. The media is ok with Hillary (now), but for a brief moment in time they were scared shitless that Howard Dean might force them to rethink their conventional wisdom. So they tried their damndest to turn him from a serious contender into a national joke. You know the more I think about it, the more I hope he runs again.