From here, it looks like the poor are being screwed in an entirely new way

[Random_Australian]

I was just thinking about American Military recruitment woes ,freepers wanting more and longer wars et cetera when it just clicked - The Freepers have one NASTY trick to play on the poor...

Simple logic friends: when does anyone join up? When they think it's the better option, of course.
But with all the stories of 'scrimping' pennies by cutting veterans stuff, docking people's pay for not working when their dead etc. I realised that the RW crowd aren't goin to raise pay/conditions. Therefore their only two options become conscription, which would make them waaaay to unpopular... *OR* they COULD just cut people's social security/ make their lives crap so that signing is the only way to get many things that people want... (Like an education).

There's no way to select any one demographic of the poor, so it will have to be everyone who gets it.

Thinking about what I've heard about student loans and Bush's last State of the Union where he cut Social security and spent more on military... I suddenly realised that this was not just my hypothetical logic-gate imagining, this is really happening....

(If this isn't really happening please don't flame me, this is my first post on GD, I am in Aust., and if you think there is some other way they could recruit, there isn't. Well, as far as I can tell but to list all the options and that would take about 600 pages. I WAS thorough cos' I thought I'd better assume it was a freeper last resort- though why it would be I don't know)

[Random_Australian]

1. *Sigh* Half an hour, no replies...

Looks like my first DU GD thread will sink like a stone.... *Sigh*

If someone replies, gimme a hug please.

[Ino]

2. I wouldn't be surprised...

though I hate to give them credit for any elaborate plans. I like to think they just bumble along with no thought except making themselves richer. I prefer stupidity & greed to pure evil.

<<< hugggggg >>> You posted at 3am here in the Midwest. Only night owls are awake right now!

[marions ghost]

10. stupidity and greed

--these 'lesser evils' are easier to accept, but cold, calculating, ruthless and sadistic Evil is what's driving this country at the moment. Several Dr. Evils are at the helm. No heart, no conscience. They are driven by demons even more demanding than the God of Money...

One of the problems with Americans --not reacting appropriately to what is going on in this country-- is a denial that it really is happening. A denial that people can really be that bad. The evildoers bank on that unwillingness of the average American to SEE such grotesque evil and corruption even when it hits them in the face. I understand this denial...to confront pure unadulterated evil is scary...but confront it we must. Sometimes people who grasp the degree of ruthlessness in their leaders become paralyzed or compliant, as in the Nazi example. Have to avoid that natural reaction too. It's all about manipulating our levels of fear on a mass scale.

Re. The poor and the military:

I have no problem believing that this is a calculated effect of the current 'screw the poor' policies. That it produces a never-ending supply of cannon fodder. Otherwise it would be very hard to get young people to go risk their lives for something as stupid as "Operation Iraqi Freedom." Rich Republican children do not go to Iraq.

[Stockholm]

3. I keep saying there is already a draft going on

The draft of the poor.

Perhaps the solution is a general draft. Nothing happens until the children of the middle class is affected.

[cornermouse]

6. What middle class?

You mean the middle class that we are losing daily?

[sandnsea]

7. Ah now, chin up

Mine have been sinking like stones for 3 years now. :)

Yeah, lots of folks have said for a while that the economic attack is in order to force young people to join the military. If they're really planning a boots on the ground war with Iran, they're going to have to do something. Do you know they already enlist immigrants, go south of the border even. Pretty pathetic way to fight wars.

[VOX]

4. Welcome to DU, RA. Most of America is abed at this hour...

I'm in California and it's nearly 2:00 a.m. here -- I should be in bed myself!

Your post is well taken -- as the middle class disappears while the wealth is being driven upward by the right-wing corporate culture, there is a permanent "underclass" emerging that in reality exists only to serve the wealthy, which often includes soldiering and dying.

We'll have to see what happens as things get deeper with Iran now in the picture. Conscription may become a reality again. If it does, I predict that the kettle will finally boil over.

Again, welcome, and cheers -- :toast:

[Random_Australian]

5. Thanks... all of you...

I feel much better now.
But as for the elaborate plan thingie... it really isn't elaborate. That's why I believe it... One order from the top and the underlings could work out the details... really.

(an addition later was deleted- off topic)

[hamerfan]

8. Good post, R_A

Welcome to DU! Been here a long time myself, just don't post too often. By the way, here's your

:hug:

dumpbush

[Random_Australian]

9. Thanks. Here's a

:hug: back.

Glad to hear my post made sense, too...

(I wasn't kidding about it starting as a logic-gate hypothesis... I think differently to other people and can't get angry, so fitting in is hard sometimes...)

[HysteryDiagnosis]

11. Welcome to DU mate...... I for one don't disagree with what you

are implying.... deplorable conditions at home can make enlistment an attractive out. :) :) :) Again, welcome to DU, stay awhile, take your shoes off, watch out for the crocs.

[ikri]

12. There's a drastic option

They could always guarantee social security and health care based upon a person being a citizen.

Of course they'd have to redefine the concept of citizenship to ensure that you could only become a citizen if you served in the military.

I think I've heard this idea before.

The right wingers would love this idea (although most of them would never qualify as a citizen since they're mostly arm-chair warriors and would never actually join up).

[Random_Australian]

13. Service Garantees Citezenship, huh.

Implies there are other ways. Like bieng a RW armchair frothball.

Like the insult "Frothball"- I made it up just now but it has a nice ring to it...
Dontcha think, Comrade Of The Evil Pinko Commie Liberal Cabal?

[annabanana]

14. "Frothball"

hmmm... as in "frothing at the mouth"? Not bad.
Welcome to DU:toast:

[EFerrari]

15. They can target undocumented workers by passing legislation

that says, you can stay here if you go to college or join the military --- and then make it damn near impossible for them to go to college.

[Random_Australian]

16. Mmmmm....

Wouldn't suiprise me. Next they'll be letting the military control boarding houses/orphanages for the unwanted kids the lack of abortion will bring...

Well actually it would take too much organisation... but if you did have large houses of boarders around the country and poor recruitment it would happen, BECAUSE SOMETHING IS VERY WRONG IN YOUR COUNTRY....

A pity. Hope you get it back.

[EFerrari]

19. Yes. Something is. Thanks for the wishes. n/t

[fasttense]

17. I was in recruiting for five years during the 90's

It was a well documented fact that when the economy was terrible we got more enlistments and had no difficulty meeting our goals. But when the economy was booming it was very difficult to make goal. This only applies when there is no war. War changes everything about recruiting.

During the Reagan years recruiting numbers were good (I looked at some older statistics when I was in recruiting). During the Clinton years, we had a very difficult time recruiting. There were other issues involved too like pay increases and draw down strategies.

Now the number of deaths in Iraq make it difficult to recruit. The price for enlistment becomes very high when the country is sending their children off to die.

So in a stupid way, you might be right. If we had no war, destroying the economy would up the enlistment numbers. If you had an idiot in the White House and he looked at a statistical analysis without concern for details than it would be smart to ruin the economy for a large segment of the population and they would enlist. The problem is when soldiers are dying recruiting is very difficult.

Since we do have an idiot in the White House then he probably is interpreting the numbers with a casual ignorance of other facts.

[DiverDave]

18. I have 2 boys

that are pretty young now, but if this crap continues, they are getting OUT.

No, we are not rich enough (now) to get them into collage on our own.
I wonder what the prices will be for a 4 year collage in 10 years...sigh.
They WILL NOT be cannon fodder for the stinkin PNAC world domination scheme that seems to be the plan for our country.
I will, somehow, get them to a country that will not ship them back.

But, I hope the country wakes up before they get to the age of recruitment.

[EFerrari]

20. Dave, there are services that for a fee will generate a list of

scholarships.

I put myself through Berkeley that way.

It's a ton of paper but worth it.

I don't remember the company names but you pm me when the rubber hits the road. I'll be happy to help w/research.

:)

[leftofthedial]

21. they are absolutely raising up a generation (or several) of cannon fodder

serfs