For those of you who oppose Hillary Clinton, consider this.

[Texacrat]

California - 55 Electoral Votes
New York - 31 Electoral Votes
Illinois - 21 Electoral Votes

Total Electoral Votes: 107 Electoral Votes with just 3 states alone

I could go on with many of the smaller blue states, such as Connecticut, but the simple fact is that while many of you are worried about winning the 2004 red states, you are taking the 2004 blue states for granted.

If Clinton does not run and Giuliani (or McCain) does, New York goes red (or blue if they switch the color scheme). If we lose New York, California, or Illinois, we will have lost the election, regardless of whether we can win Virginia or North Carolina.

Please consider this.

[babylonsister]

1. NY will not go repug, despite who runs.I think you should chill, but

I could be wrong. Someone prove me right!

[Texacrat]

10. Here's my reasoning

Clinton v. Giuliani - Clinton can win this contest

Giuliani v. Warner - Giuliani will trounce Warner

Giuliani v. Edwards - will be closer, but Giuliani still has the home field advantage with very high aproval ratings in his own state

Giuliani was the only candidate who had the ability to beat Spitzer accordng to polling. However, Clinton would able to stave off a challenge from Giuliani, though the race would be extremely competitive.

[babylonsister]

21. Read this: Dems do not like Giuliani! NY is fervently Dem, ergo,

Giulani loses! I hope!

[Texacrat]

24. NYC is 4/5ths Dem

right?

[NewJeffCT]

31. and he was elected & re-elected how then?

Don't forget the power of the RW slime machine to take down anybody opposing them - be it Hillary or anybody else.

[In Truth We Trust]

2. frying pan

[upi402]

16. agreed

[Pithy Cherub]

3. You are largely assuming that we the powerful blue states

will just roll over for Hillary as the candidate. Yes, it is true that Hillary is a prodigious fundraiser here in California. BUT it is equally true that her recent speech in San Francisco was not to a full house and she pulls serious protestors here (mega TV time showing them too). Don't assume that just beause she put her hat in the ring we will be applauding or voting for her in the state with 55 electoral votes.

[davidinalameda]

7. sorry but she is not my candidate for president

and she will never be my candidate for president

if her last name was Smith, she wouldn't even be in the Senate right now

and what has she done while she's served in the senate?

[Goldensilence]

4. with Bush gone i think texas could become a swing state.

With an increasing hispanic population that if they were reached out to could swing the tide and appeals to the the larger metropolitan areas like Houston, San Antonio, Austin(strong liberal city anyway), DFW area... I think it could be pulled.

IF for once the democrats run smart elections, something they have seemed incapable of the past two cycles, and with all current well everything with the republican party.....Taht said even if Giulani does run i still don't think NY goes red. SAme With California. Arnie's already been defaced.

[napi21]

11. WOW, I want what YOU had to drink tonight!

Did you just not see the criminal DeLay win tonight? I lived in San Antonio from 1992 to 1998. I know San Antonio and Austin are Dem, but I just don't see Dallas, Houston, and all of west Tx turning even purple anytime soon.

[Texacrat]

18. Dallas County almost went for Kerry last year

He lost it by 1 percent.

But I agree with the rest of your statement.

[Goldensilence]

20. i just got home and saw the news

that is saddening. I haven't hread anything about the charges going to trial yet. OWnder whatthat would do to his campaign. I would hopea fourht grader could make a decent campaign opposing him. He's already provided so much to work with.

[readmoreoften]

29. Texas is a swing state.

There is simply major voting fraud. When I lived in a hispanic area of Dallas, it took me three hours to find my polling place...I shit you not. It was completely hidden behind greenery on a misnamed road. Everyone I know was either defrauded of their vote in the general election or knows someone who was. If you voted straight ticket Dem in the general election, your vote bumped over to Bush. Can't tell you how many times I heard it.

It's red because of De Lay's redistricting, voter fraud, and vote suppression, far as I can tell. I'm not saying it's a blue state, I'm saying it's as purple as Pennsylvania.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

5. No! no more republicans....

She's all tied in with the system. Besides, she supports the Iraq war, that's an automatic no vote from me.

[LouKYDem]

6. If NY goes red...

Assuming NY goes red (and I don't see any scenario of that happening, even if Giuliani runs), why would Virginia and North Carolina be blue? I don't see how those more conservative states would vote Democratic and New York vote Republican unless there is some MAJOR realignment between the two parties between now and 2008, and that won't be happening.

[Katherine Brengle]

8. If she is the Dem nominee, I will vote for her...

but a big part of me hopes I won't have to.

[Cleita]

9. I don't think California is going for Hillary.

It doesn't matter anyway because the candidates get selected in the primaries before we even get a chance to vote. In the last election everyone wanted Dean and we got Kerry. So I guess we'll get stuck with Hillary, but I don't think even that many people will show up to vote this time unless you give us a candidate we can get excited about.

[skipos]

12. Like Dukakis, she'd win some of the well known blue state and thats it.

[Charlie Brown]

13. NY will NEVER go red

Giuliani is pro-choice, and thus not eligible for the nomination, and McCain will never carry NY given his recent warming to the religious right.

[MissMarple]

14. Ah huh, that only goes so far.

We need a swoop in the middle states. :shrug: Hillary has history. And she hasn't yet appealed to the progressives. That is key.

[pinto]

15. No offense, but I'd rather focus on actual 2006 races, not hypothetical

2008 races. These mid terms are a big one for our party.

[Texacrat]

17. I'm volunteering for Chet Edwards' TX-17 campaign

I worked on it 2 years ago and the 2006 races will be won on the ground.

But I don't think there's any harm in talking about '08.

[DanCa]

19. Your math doesn't match mine

I know personally know of 12 voters who voted for Senator Kerry who will not vote for Senator Clinton. While I like Senator Clinton, notice that I am using her proper title, she is as great a liability as she is an asset. Honestly could you please name one repug who voted for George W Bush that would be tempted to jump swtich and vote for senator Clinton. A person who the rights demonized from as far back as I can remember?

There are also three more reasons that I hope that she doesn't run. One, I don't want to see a woman ripped to shreds by the republican slime machine. Two she's a senator with a long paper trail. If you think that they picked and choose from Senator Kerry recorded, and fabricated his record, they will have a field with Senator Clinton's record. Third she's a pro war politician. How can we as the left have a representive who is for the war, while we are against it? This was another problem with Senator Kerry that the right exploited. And I say that as a great admirer of Senator Kerry.

Note I say this because not to be mean but just to give you some food for thought. I really want a win this time, and I don't see Senator Clinton capable of flipping the red states like say General Clark can. However I must say at this point in time that if she were to run I would vote for her, but only if she makes party nom.
Have a nice night all, Danny.

[RagingInMiami]

22. After these last eight years

The only way New York will go red is if Diebold counts the votes.

[radwriter0555]

23. Two words: Diebold. California.

The Democrats have no chance of any justice with diebold counting the ballots.

I'm sorry. I really am.

[othermeans]

25. Draft Gore NOW!

[OneBlueSky]

32. yup . . . Draft Gore Now! . . . n/t

.

[norml]

26. Once again, she's not running for the presidency.

She's never ran for the presidency.

She's never going to run for the presidency.

This "Hillary's Running" nonsense has always been the right wing radio clowns' way of detracting from her accomplishments while painting her as power mad.

They've put more time into conditioning a negative response to the sound of her name than they have to any other.

Only in right wing radio land, fweeperville, or on Foxy News is Hillary running for president.

[TreasonousBastard]

27. She ain't runnin' but if she does run...

she'll get her ass kicked.

Here's how I see it (and please note that I'm wrong a lot)--

Absolutely nothing will get moving until after this year's election when the pros take a hard look at the results to see which way winds are blowing. The new Congress will pretty much lead the course on how everyone moves toward '08, and there will be a few new governors in play. State parties will most likely find themselves realigned.

Should our prayers be answered and Shrub is actually impeached next year, all bets are off-- it's a whole new game with new players.

The Senator from New York may or may not be doing a bang-up job for New Yorkers as their rep, but lately she seems to have been spending more time looking for bandwagons to jump on than doing her job. I do not think the nation really looks on her that favorably, particularly as the first female President, and that the only real asset she has is name recognition.

I suspect the best bet is not one of the oft-mentioned names, but a dark horse. If we're really, really lucky, the Schwarzenegger Amendment would be passed in record time to allow the foreign-born to run and we could get Granholm. We won't be that lucky, of course, so we might look across the river to Joisey where Corzine bought himself a Senate seat and then bought himself the Governor's mansion. I had heard whispers from his campaign staff about dreams of yet a bigger house.

Corzine is a formidable fundraiser and is gracious and wise about passing out largesse. He also seems to be quite talented in backroom dealings and management in general, and, aside from a particular dalliance, has few if any skeletons in his closet.

My money's that if he doesn't ultimately get the nod, he'll make a hell of a run for it. And he could very well win the big one.

[jsamuel]

28. If California and NY goes red, then we have a lot more to worry about than

who is on the ticket, because who is on the ticket wouldn't seem to make much of a difference.

[mwb970]

30. Two words: Wesley Clark. (n/t)