Why I'm very skeptical of the food stamp/Lexus story.

[Maddy McCall]

Because I used to do advocacy work for women and had to learn federal and state regulations on food stamps, TANF, child care, etc.

Here's the low down. Every state runs a DMV check to see if any vehicles are registered to the recipient before giving the recipient an EBT card. States have different limits on the value of a vehicle a person may own. If it is valued at more than $6000 in Mississippi, you cannot receive food stamps. Other states' limits are set by other states, but I know that a Lexus would not make the cut, unless it was 15 years old, and in that case, no one should complain if that food stamp recipient receives assistance.

Now, the only exception to this rule is Katrina victims. After Katrina, anyone who applied received food stamps for a month. Didn't matter if you had a car, property, a bank account, whatever. You were not denied. But you only recieved one lump sum (if you were married with several children, that amount might have been $500-1000.) It worked on the presumption that people lost power, thus lost food. Maybe some people haven't spent all of their EBT funds from Katrina.

I just don't buy the story about the woman and the Lexus. It used to be easy to get around these laws. Now, in the computer age, the case worker can ascertain info about the car you drive, any real property you own, and if you have bank accounts at the click of a mouse.

[greenbriar]

1. maybe the lexus was not hers???

we don't know the whole truth.

maybe the food card wasn't hers maybe she gave someone lesser cash for the greater food card???

[Maddy McCall]

3. Or maybe the story's not true. MORE INFO.

:shrug:

Edited to add, why that's implausible:

1) Food stamp recipients have to go to the DHS office in their county AT LEAST twice a year to be recertified. Why would anyone want to continually be responsible for that if he or she sold the card? With the old paper stamps, it was easy to do the trade, stamps for cash, and that was indeed abused by some people. Nowhere near as easy to defraud these days.

2) Cashiers are required to periodically ask for ID of EBT users. Anyone who is using a card that does not belong to them runs the risk of being arrested for food stamp fraud if caught with a card that doesn't belong to them.

3) When you apply or go to your recert for food stamps, the case worker asks you who you wish to give permission to use your card and their relationship to you. If anyone else uses the card, it can be taken from you and you can lose your right to assistance for two years first offense or permanently for second offense.

Just more info on the food stamp program for people who know nothing about it.

[Thtwudbeme]

2. Bingo

besides which.....it's just plain creepy to check someone out that much in a public place.

This is what she bought....this is how she paid....this is what she was driving....

I hope that a freeper isn't behind me in a line going "hmmmmmmm birkenstocks, vegetables, organic dog food....I bet she is driving a Subaru with a Sierra Club sticker! A LIBERAL! Should I be pissed????"

Btw---I made a 97 on my Native American Anthropology midterm--

on edit: Part of the test was essay; I tried to show a clear relationship between Mexico and the Pueblo tribes of Arizona...made a 100% on that part-

Steph

[Maddy McCall]

5. Yes, it is nosy and freeperish!

And congrats on that 97! That is something to be proud of. I hope you celebrated!! :hi:

[Starlight]

8. I agree. It's creepy & stalkerish to be that nosey AND to be proud of it.

:scared:

[Maddy McCall]

30. When I go grocery shopping, I'm totally involved in getting...

my groceries on the checkout, getting my check written or my cash in hand, answering my son's questions, etc. I don't have the time or inclination to inspect the person's groceries in front of me, or their clothing, or to follow them to the parking lot to see what they're driving.

Even if I'm just buying a couple of items, I can't imagine being so vigilant of how people spend their money in relation to what kind of vehicle they drive.

[LostinVA]

16. Lesbians drive Subarus. OMG!!!

[Thtwudbeme]

I know! AND I wear sandals, and own TWO flannel shirts

have a cat....

I was named honorary lesbian a long time ago on DU!

;)

[LostinVA]

27. Even I don't have a flannel shirt -- AND I'M A LESBIAN!!!

[vademocrat]

55. What? A lesbian with no flannel shirt?

I'm shocked - you probably don't have hiking boots either!

Careful, Ellen will come take your toaster oven!
:evilgrin:

[LostinVA]

58. Does a chamois shirt count? NOT MY TOASTER OVEN!

[Thtwudbeme]

56. do you have a Subaru????

this could be serious; do I need to drive north and take you to Eddie Bauer?

[LostinVA]

57. I have a TDI VW -- but I do shop at Eddie Bauer!

[Thtwudbeme]

67. I can't think of a VW joke!

I have tried!

Check your PM!

[misanthrope]

28. re: anthropology...

...What avenue did you take in connecting the Pueblos with the Mexican tribes? The easiest one I can think of is the Uto-Aztecan language trail. There's also the thing with the teeth-filing, hints of possible cannibalism and some architectural evidence in the pueblos.

I always found it interesting that some of the Uto-Aztecan tribal origin myths have them coming across the the South Pacific rather than the Bering Strait.

Aren't there also some anomalous corollaries between Hopi culture and Tibetan cultures?

[Thtwudbeme]

64. Well, actually I started out with the archaic

then moved to the formative period, then went right on the Pimas---and yes, I used the Uto-Aztec language, some of the architecture, also tossed in farming techniques....and then some religious stuff--

I the the anomalous corollaries that you are looking for with some of the Pueblo tribes are more with Asian religions than Tibetan Buddhism---

If the Oscars weren't on and Michael wasn't yelling "honey, here's George Clooney," and we weren't on Maddie's thread, I would love to go into this!

Stephanie

[Just Me]

29. WOO HOOO!!!!

:woohoo: :applause:

:hug: WAY TO GO!!!!! :hug:

[Thtwudbeme]

65. Thank you!

;)

[Redstone]

4. ALL of those "welfare/Cadillac" stories are bullshit, concocted by racist

rightwingers. They've been doing it for a long, LONG time.

Redstone

[LisaLynne]

6. Exactly.

Old, old, OLD story from the RW racist jerks, brought to mass consumption and made okay to spread around by Evil Old Ronnie Raygun himself.

[Maddy McCall]

7. Yes, and the story has a new car now. The Lexus. (Or Hummer.)

:thumbsup:

[Thtwudbeme]

11. I would have been more inclined to believe it if she had jumped on a

polo pony and galloped away, whacking people with her mallot.

God, this whole Reagan era crap just sets me off.

[Maddy McCall]

21. Yes, the invention of the "welfare queen" not only affected the poor...

but mostly poor women.

Sad that some DUers have bought into it.

[Redstone]

31. You're joking, right? PLEASE tell me you're joking . I CANNOT believe

that DUers actually believed this crap.

I am so disappointed.

Redstone

[Maddy McCall]

35. :-)

That poster is pushin' up daisies on tombstone alley. :hi:

[Redstone]

38. And good fucking riddance, if you don't mind me using

that kind of language.

Redstone

[Maddy McCall]

40. No, dear heart...

doesn't offend me one bit.

:hi:

[SoCalDem]

9. Don't forget the fur coat & gems...and the 8 borrowed kids

:)

[Maddy McCall]

26. And, of course, illegally parking in a handicap parking space.

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. And that poster got upset with me

for alleging the story was bullshit. :eyes:

[KT2000]

63. Do have one Cadillac story

back when they were giving out free cheese my friend's rich RW uncle resented it so much that he made the trip to where they were giving it out every month. He parked his big ass Cadillac right in front. He went in and got his free cheese too.

The cheats are not the poor - the cheats are the sick rich Wingers.

[etherealtruth]

10. I'm going to go with ...

... the story in question was posted by someone young and naive (I am not implying that they necessarily go together) who encountered someone using food stamps (or whatever the hell the program is now called) that did not conform to their image of poverty.

This poster embellished the details of the story (a very human trait) in the telling of it ... it actually was a Ford Taurus, and it was an "Honor Role" bumper sticker from a school in an affluent area ...

OR

... the story in question was posted by an evil misanthrope ...

OR

...the story was true ...

As with the original assertions who the hell knows.

[Solly Mack]

12. it didn't pass my scratch and sniff test

but then I'm not exactly a nice person :)

[eleny]

13. I worked for social services for almost 30 years

Your experience and knowledge of the program "mechanics" are spot on.

I dismiss such stories. Seems like too many people I meet tell me stories about the person buying high end beef steaks and other such foods with their "stamps". I say it's all urban mythology. And if someone borrowed a car or got a ride - then onlookers ought to examine their own conscience for reading it in a negative way.

There are abusers in every program and so there are regulations and investigators out there to keep it from happening, nipping it in the bud or minimizing the problem.

I say that the biggest, most dangerous thieves are in the corridors of our government. Why don't people make a bigger deal out of them?!

[etherealtruth]

19. "Ain't that the truth!" eom

[Maddy McCall]

22. Thanks for verifying my experiences.

:hi:

:thumbsup: on your last paragraph.

[LostinVA]

14. Me too, Maddy

And, also because I came of political age during the "Welfare Queen" era.

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. Well they ought to come up with a new story

This one is gettin old. Lemme tell ya. :hi:

[greenbriar]

18. Okay My Bro-in-law and wife have a food card They lived with us

for a while because they got evicted when she was 8 months pg and they had a 2 yearold.

They could not afford diapers and such. We bought things they needed like that and they bought food for us and when the baby was born, I used the card to buy food and formula for when they got home.

I drive a 2005 Jeep

wrong? Maybe

Should they be able to buy diapers and laundry soap ect...I think so

[Maddy McCall]

25. With food stamps, you can't even buy Tylenol.

Much less diapers and Tide. Good that you assisted your relatives. Many women out there have NO one to help.

[Just Me]

20. I don't give a DAMN whether a few abuse charity!!!!

Those few shouldn't dictate me or any other decent human being's interest in caring for those who are troubled.

I view such "stories" as projections of selfishness and self-pity and self-problems.

Period

[Just Me]

24. OH!!! AND I MIGHT ADD the ones who most ABUSE "charity",...

,...are using our taxpayer dollars to KILL PEOPLE, SPY ON AMERICANS, PROFIT HEARTLESS CORPORACRATS AND LEAVE OUR CHILDREN AND ELDERLY BEHIND FOR THE BENEFIT OF PROFITEERS.

That is ALL I have to say about THAT!!!!

[SPKrazy]

23. I Don't Believe It Either!

just doesn't smell right

[SmokingJacket]

32. Food's not THAT expensive...

if you can afford a Lexus, why go through all that hullaballoo to get some free groceries?

My parents got food stamps when I was a kid. We got sick of eating the rabbits my dad shot...

I'm much, MUCH more concerned about the billions the Pentagon LOST in Iraq. At least people are EATING with foodstamps.

[Blue Diadem]

33. Thank you Maddy!

I don't buy the story either. I'm glad you are here to post the truth about how financial backgrounds are checked out.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

34. Thank you for sharing the facts with us.

That post is a reincarnation of a very tired old story. Sadly, people don't stop to consider that times have changed since the story first circulated.

It doesn't even make sense to complain about such trivial things when the real fraudulent uses of our tax money is being committed by corporations with the blessings this admin. Halliburton for example.

[Bunny]

36. I can't stand the plain old mean-ness of those who would begrudge

others their food. Of all the most basic necessities of life, food is pretty close to the top. If someone is ripping off the system, so fucking what? How can that possibly effect me?

To concern yourself with what someone else is buying is beyond me, I've never been a cart peeper. To get riled up because they used food stamps, then STALK them to the parking lot to eyeball their vehicle suggests a pathology that should probably be addressed by trained professionals.

[Cleita]

37. Also, if she's employed at a low paying job like a housekeeper,

that qualified her for food stamps. She could have been using her employer's car to do her shopping and decided to do her's as well.

Although, I think that story smells of "welfare queen with Cadillacs". Some people don't think people should be given a helping hand at taxpayer's expense and will say anything to descredit them.

Awhile back someone here on DU said that people who didn't speak English shouldn't get welfare. I had to point out to her that reading her post I didn't think she spoke English either.

[Maddy McCall]

39. It does smell of "welfare queen/cadillac"

The detail about her being snarky about having her groceries bagged (with the insinuation that poor people who get their groceries "for free" shouldn't expect the same services as those paying with cash) kinda raised my antennae.

[Cleita]

41. That was a clue for me too although I pretended to go along

with him/her to point out a few things. The poster has been tombstoned.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

62. "No, no make it a Lexus instead of a Caddy, it's 2006 after all..."

[Quantess]

42. anectdotal stories

Urban legends, anyone?
I'm pretty new around here, as you can tell. Do you always get this many anecdotal stories that seem to go against the general consensus of liberal attitude? :popcorn:

(I didn't think I would be posting this often, but I'm enjoying it.)

[Maddy McCall]

45. Yeah, and as you can see, those stories raise our hackles...

The fun thing about it is watching DUers who have been members for several years agree with the offensive post. It kinda outs the closet conservatives. :D

Welcome to DU. :hi:

[Cleita]

46. I post ancedotal a lot because it comes from my life's

experience and frankly I don't have it documented anywhere to post a link. However, these "this is what happened to me at the supermarket" stories often can be taken with a grain of salt.

Welcome to DU, BTW. :hi:

[Quantess]

52. Thanks for the welcome! n/t

:hi:

[Libby2]

43. I agree with what you say.

My sister is barely making ends meet, but she is not entitled to any help because she has a car with a car payment.

eta: Besides that's the least of our freaking worries as far as being ripped off.
What the hell about corporate welfare?

[Maddy McCall]

47. To qualify, she would have to sell the car, liquidate the money from the..

sale, and then apply six months after the sale.

It's terrible, because food stamp recipients should have a reliable car to drive to work or college, and still qualify, as long as they are making upward gains. But they don't.

[Libby2]

48. Yep, you are right on. n/t

[MADem]

44. It could easily have been her car, or one leased by her ex-husband

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=581626&mesg_id=581919

Here's my scenario that I posted to that original thread, at the link, above. It is fictionalized, as this Lexus tale probably is, but I knew someone who went through a hideous divorce and was living poor in a well off neighborhood. She was trying like hell to keep a good face on it for her kids, but they ended up moving to a cheesy cardboard apartment on the po' side of town, because she just couldn't keep it together on what she got after the settlement.

My hapless neighbor didn't drive a Lexus, but she did have a bigass high end SUV that her ex-husband had as a tax write off for his business. The car was in her husband's name, and that lady went through circumstances very similar to what I noted on that other thread. The husband wanted her to use the car because he was one of those idiots that thinks BIG is always safer, and he didn't want his kids killed in a tuna fish can on wheels.

So, it could happen, though I think the purpose of the tale is to raise peoples' ire about benefits cheaters.

[Maddy McCall]

49. I'm always tempted to use Occam's Razor.

The simplest explanation is the best one.

But, yeah, your scenario could be true, except that if the woman receives child support, that would be factored into her income, If the husband was wealthy enough to buy his ex-wife an SUV as a tax write-off, then I suppose that the child support he was paying was in the thousands/month. That would reduce any amount of assistance she received to almost nothing.

[MADem]

53. She didn't get much--one kid was over 18

The house was in HIS name, and he paid the mortgage and child support, and she was responsible for all the bills after six months or so. She had NEVER worked, except as a waitress in college. She left school to marry the guy, and she was fair, fat and fortyish, a great cook, and the house always sparkled--she reminded me a bit of a chunky Mrs. Soprano, actually. Never paid a bill, he was one of those controlling types, she took her allowance and went to the country club events...a real clueless type, living in a bubble.

She had a shitty lawyer because he went to all the good lawyers in town when he filed for divorce and paid a consultation fee; and they couldn't represent her because of conflict of interest. The poor gal really got screwed in the deal. She ended up with low-end representation, and the settlement showed it.

A lot of us in the neighborhood tried to help her out, mowing the lawn and things of that nature, but she couldn't keep it together. I guess she maxxed out all her credit cards and got in a real mess, and had no dough to go back to court and get a better settlement.

The upside of it all was that as her "set" fell away from her, they also fell away from the husband, who took up with a real sleazy woman who took HIM to the cleaners. So, the wheels grind slowly, but they grind fine...!

That said, I do agree with you. When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras...unless you are living in a house abutting Safari Land!

[Neil Lisst]

50. Even if we assume the story was true ...

...which I'm not saying we should, but even if we do, it's still not the basis for drawing untowards conclusions.

She may be a maid who works for someone and drives THEIR car to get HER groceries, perhaps as well as theirs. That occurs millions of times a week in this country. Some poor person of color drives a vehicle owned by his or her employer.

The tell-tale part of this story was the gratuitous mention of how this woman supposedly got upset and wanted her bags packed by store personnel. Well, why shouldn't she?!! She bought groceries, and her "money" is as good as anyone else's.

The story that was told gave itself away with that comment about her attitude about bagging the groceries. It carried with it the implicit judgment of "who does this bizzatch think she is?! Shouldn't she be glad we're paying for her groceries? Shouldn't she have to bag her own groceries?!"

The story is one of those email stories the rightwing send to each other and everyone they know every few months.

[ismnotwasm]

51. I just looked at that

And like others, to me it sounded like the old "welfare queen" crap. It had enough responses and didn't need my opinion.
I was on welfare back which they used paper food stamps, and the biggest abuse I participated in was buying a candy bar to get "change" for something not covered with food stamps. Life was not good on welfare or food stamps and even most who "scammed the system" did so in a petty nickel and dime way. And you always supplemented food with the wonderful world of chicken backs and salmon patties from the food bank. Ah yes, the good old days. (And gov'ment cheese) And usually, the problem wasn't things like expensive cars, but multiple broke down ones someone was always working on.

I have been noticing something though. I live in a economically challenged, multi ethnic working class neighborhood. (Many are immigrants, or children of immigrants but it's also one of the last "affordable" inner city places to buy a home, so we've got a good mix of all kinds of people)
Anyway back to what I've been noticing. Second hand hummers. Now, I don't think the people who are buying these hummers are on food stamps so it's a bit off topic. But to see those ugly monstrosities drive up and down the street cracks me up. They've moved from the "burbs" right into the 'hood. Wonder why? Well I know why, and it shouldn't amuse me but it does. A status symbol. Can't go anywhere far but I'll drive up and down the street.

[Maddy McCall]

54. What I'm seeing here--and this has nothing to do with public assistance--

is that people who have lower middle class incomes are buying used SUVs for a song and a dance. Wealthy people here are shucking their SUVs and buying Priuses and other small, fuel efficient cars.

For instance, an Expedition that originally sold for $35,000 several years ago can be bought for $8000. People can't dump them fast enough.

[JI7]

59. just read the original post which is now locked

i agree with everyone else that it's BS. i don't know about the laws as much asy ou do concerning these things. but it's the way he put it, and all the comments about how it took a long time to run the card through and how she wanted to bag her groceries. i mean, who gives a shit. these things always happen in grocery lines. it's not something i notice and take note of. it's something i expect to happen when you are in a fucking grocery line.

it's like he was purposely adding these things in to try to get us angry by the moment with the full affect coming on when he tells us about the car and private school sticker.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

60. Yeah, and she was buying all booze and junk food too! LOL sigh....

[Wordie]

66. Could you, or someone, please post a link to the original thread?

I'd like to see for myself what all the fuss is about.

And I agree wholeheartedly with all of those who have pointed out that this is most likely a RWers' urban fantasy, a variation on the "Welfare Queen with a Cadillac" theme of the Reagan era.

...and, even if somehow it were true, I also agree that those who stalk people because of such issues have far greater problems than the stalkee.

[JI7]

68. here is a link to the original thread which is now locked

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x581626

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

61. About as believable as the "I was hit & run by a truck but felt no need to

tell anyone about it except DU" thread.

[LeftCoast]

69. Locking

We'd appreciate it if people kept thread conversations in the thread where they started.