Is it too late to take back America?

[Crazy Dave]

Have we let it go to far already?

Is the takeover of Washington, DC by special interests, big industry and soon to be China and the United Arab Emirates so embedded and rooted that it is now a permanent disease with no cure? I personally feel that the answer is YES. That from now on no matter who is in the White House, no matter who controls both houses, special interests and big business own America and that's the way it will be for the rest of our lives. It's political suicide now to say you are going after a certain industry like big oil or big insurance or big pharmaceuticals. Since all politicians want to do is get into power and stay elected they aren't going to risk losing big contributions that would go to their opponent if they said that they were going to "get tough on them". Well they can say it but behind closed doors it’s wink, wink, nudge, nudge, "you know I don’t really mean that Mr. HMO and Mr. Enron so please donate to me and I'll take good care of you I promise".
Later, all it takes is a couple of TV commercials to blame the other side for the still ongoing problems and if you dare go against the special interests you promised to protect or not to mess with watch yourself be under funded next election and possibly "Swift Boated" too. It’s that easy to fool Americans you know because that's how they get so easily manipulated and that’s how they pick their candidates, through TV commercials.

Your opinions please:

[MindPilot]

1. The too stupid to govern themselves got the government they deserved.

unfortunately they've taken the rest of us along for the ride.

[bryant69]

12. Yeah!

We need only those of proven intelligence and probiety to vote - maybe only land owners.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[MindPilot]

21. I know you are being sarcastic, but...

every time I see those "man-on-the-street" interviews where people can't name their senators, confuse the Bill of Rights with the Communist Manifesto, think the Earth is circles the sun, and really don't have a clue about history or geography, I do question the integrity of their decisions regarding voting.

Unpleasant as it may be, perhaps citizens should have to prove some basic knowledge before they can vote.

[bryant69]

22. Maybe a simple literacy test

Nothing wrong with that, eh?

Bryant

[MindPilot]

28. Actually I was hoping more for a roundup & detention

of anyone who voted for Bush so they could be used as slave labour to put America back together. C'mon, tell me you wouldn't enjoy watching a chain gang of oil company CEOs sweating off their fat working on a wetland restoration project or cleaning up nu-ku-lar waste without any protective gear.

I say when we do get our country returned to us, payback is gonna be a mofo. :evilgrin:

[Crazy Dave]

31. The worst/best was a man on the street with our country vs. China

It was during the 2004 elections and they asked the same questions, mostly about the candidates and the issues, and the Chinese youths, by the sound of their voices on the radio, were more informed about them and their issues than the Americans, all of different ages. Even when the Chinese people didn't quite know the exact answer they knew what the question pertained to.
The Americans, well they asked who they were voting for, Kerry or Bush, then asked who each candidates running mates were and over half had no idea.

Keep them poor and ignorant.

[BlueEyedSon]

32. How about non-land owners? I say only the poor should be allowed to vote.

Or one's vote should be counted inversely proportion to net worth, which represents your ability to game the system NON-ELECTORALLY.

[Skelington]

37. I think you just sumed up the whole problem, in just a few words,

However, I think it goes more like this, "the too stupid to govern themselves, got the government they voted for, the rest of us bitched, and pointed fingers so much that we forgot to make sure the Democratic message was being understood, and more importantly being taken to the voting booth".

[niallmac]

2. To "Take Back America" people would have to

have a spiritual material philosophical turn about. As long as we worship the dollar it will be our master. Game over for this democracy experiment.
Just my own sour grapes monday morning opinion.

[Crazy Dave]

7. I think you're "dead on"

The Wal-Martization of this country has already begun.

[Coyote_Bandit]

10. Agreed

"Taking back America" has more to do with changing attitudes and desires than with winning elections. Unfortunately, there are very few who are focused on shaping core attitudes and desires. Our culture is all about winning and dominating and controlling and consuming.

[BlueEyedSon]

33. No we just need to make the SYSTEM impervious to $$$ manipulation.

Greedy peeps will go do something else & stay away from politics, leaving it to statesmen.

[niallmac]

35. If the battle can be defined I will enlist.

[rurallib]

3. Not too late but getting close - here's a modest proposal

If, like me you are tired of waiting for the politicians to clean their own nest, may I make a modest proposal of a way to protest legally.
Drive 55. Burn less gas and force those who must follow you to burn less also. Put a sign on your car to the effect that you are dring 55 to drive Bush form office. Or you are driving 55 to bring our troops home early.
I have come to the conclusion that some sort of true non violent protest action is needed. This is legal, can be done on any highway, actually saves money and will get others attention.
Join me.

[laruemtt]

13. good idea but

my cynical self envisions some super-sized SUVs pulling up alongside me and shooting out my tires, if not me. btw, i haven't driven in six months, staying down here on an island, but when and if we go back to the u.s., i think i'll keep on not driving as long as possible. life's nice without a car!

[laruemtt]

4. i voted it's not too late but

at this point i think nothing short of hard evidence of MIHOP or a strong LIHOP will do it IMHO, as the population has proven it is willing to let *bushco get away with anything. proof of MIHOP might pull them back in from the precipice.

[TayTay]

5. It is not too late.

My father fought for this country in WWII, as did all my uncles. They fought for a country that believed in Democracy and the Rule of Law and fought to prevent the fascist world view from taking over.

The least I can do for my own kids is to fight against that as well. It is never over and the battle is never hopeless. It's just difficult. We persevere. (And, btw, we just might win. You know we did before and that's why we have 40 hour work weeks, social security, Medicare and all the rest. It's why I, as a woman can vote, own property in my own name and have a career outside the home. We put Civil Rights on the map and started the movement that says that All Americans have a basic set of rights that cannot be tampered with. Hell no, it's not too late, it's just difficult.)

[Crazy Dave]

11. It is a lot more difficult

Back in both our parents generation you didn't have the instantaneous, world-wide media circus we have now. Swift Boat veterans, the "Dean Scream" heard around the world and the "blogs" can manipulate the American public so easy that it's a part of the political business model.
Example: Every time Bush slips in the polls, his beloved "Patriot Act" is jeopardized or even when he was up for re-election, it was time to whoop-up the "fear factor" and tadda! A new Bin Laden tape appears. It worked too. So did the "Swift Boat" veterans.

[ck4829]

6. America can't be taken back...

But, it can rise again.

What we need is a "New America".

[HockeyMom]

8. They have set the stage

and dotted all their i's and crossed all their t's so, I hate to say this, it will be nearly impossible to turn it around; Patriot Act, Homeland Security, Supreme Court Justices, the Media, DIEBOLD, etc.

I do believe 9/11 was the catalyst for all this, but it had to have taken YEARS for all the planning to put the necessary pieces in place.

Call me cynical, but I don't see how all this could have happened just by CHANCE.

[Crazy Dave]

14. It may sound insensitive and I don't mean it to

But 9/11 was the best thing that could have ever happened for the Bush administration.

[HockeyMom]

19. No argument from me on that one

Absolutely agree.

[kayice]

38. It is the truth and I've often wondered if they joke about it.

They are some narcissistic, evil so-called men running this country and usually a narcissist is a failure on his own without his supply sources (or enablers).......I've always wondered if they shared in private what 9/11 did for their agenda?

[hang a left]

27. IMO you are close.

9-11 was the triggering event. It had been planned for years, with all the machinations developed just waiting to implement. 9-11 was the signal that the operation was a go. Selection 2000, that was the catalyst.

[Justpat]

9. I feel it is too late for us to change the course of our government.

When the 2000 selection went off without a hitch, it set things up
for the steady push to remove all trace of civil liberties and rights
granted under our original constitution.

Then the patriot act rolled back many of the amendments to the Constitution without even being read by many of our representatives,
much less protested.

We have crossed over from a government of the people, by the people and
for the people one of the corporation, by the corporation and for the
corporation.

And the concept of the congress being a deliberative body, there to
provide meaningful discussion and opposition when necessary has been
totally done in by the one party rule now in effect.

When all avenues of dissent are choked off, rights discarded and elections
stolen, how can anyone claim to live in a free society?

I struggle daily with feeling of profound grief over what has happened to
our country and I struggle with rage over the stupidity of those who
feel that a divinely appointed king in times of trouble is going to
lead them out of chaos. Their weak, stupid, foolish hearts have been
used to wipe all traces of courage from our national character.

It is up to individuals who realize that the challenges facing us
will require major change in our lives and who are willing to sacrifice
some comforts in order to regain the ideals that we instituted to
set us free from the type of government we now have.

[Crazy Dave]

17. When the right wing wants to dictate or criticize what's said at:

Civil rights leader's funerals, it shows we're in great trouble and going backwards versus forwards.

[Justpat]

24. agreed. n/t

[Gildor Inglorion]

15. Too late to take it back, but not too late for a second revolution

to quote Thomas Jefferson: "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." :bounce:

[cascadiance]

26. It may be too late to take it back without getting arrested, etc...

I think that thoughts of people resisting in "allowed" forms of protests (marches, LTTE writings, campaigning for candidates, exit polling, etc.) being enough to take down this government are probably now "too late". This is ineffective now with the newer rules, monitoring techniques, ownership of the press, etc. that this administration has.

What it will take is probably more selective means of taking on this goverment. Whistleblowers perhaps going underground and releasing what they know, which they know likely will get them arrested (ala "Deep Throat"). Perhaps surrounding the White House with people "Ukraine style" after elections if voting results are fixed to the point of forcing "mass arrests" then. Many people may have to live in Canada and other countries to conduct such "resistance" operations. Campaigning for "confrontational" state ballot intiatives such as "California Secession" to force the federal government's hands in some of these instances, and perhaps state officials in larger states such as California and New York (once we've thrown out Arnold and Pataki) being more confrontational with state policies on things like moving to a state militia instead of a national guard (that can be "stolen away from" by the feds for adventures like Iraq.

The problem is that with the new game that is probably needed, we all may need to be willing to get arrested at some point. We'll have to pick our battles wisely, so that we don't get "shut down" by being arrested, unless we're trying to line up a "checkmate" move or something to that effect.

I'm still all for trying to avoid an "armed revolution", which I don't think is possible for one, given the weaponry at the feds disposal, and secondly it will completely disrupt what had been a decent and harmonious coexistence between all of us in this country that had existed a lot more civilly until recently. It would also be harder to recruit people to take arms against their neighbors too. I don't think this country is ready for that yet. Not unless we start seeing some crackdowns by the feds that are involving violence that go way beyond what happened at Kent State. And with that sort of crackdown, I'd expect that many police officers and others asked to perform those crackdowns would also resist too, for the same reasons.

The lack of will for Americans to want confrontation with others in our country can be both a blessing and a curse. We are one of the few nations left on the planet, where we have multiple generations of people that for the most part have lived peacefully together without armed confrontation forcing government changes, etc. Our government as a "living entity" has changed and adapted over time when we needed it to,.. Until now! You have others in other countries faced with government crack downs or other "points of no returns" where the citizens measure what is going on currently with what they or their parents have experienced of similar magnitude in the past where radical measures were needed to changes things, they know the "tipping point" of when they need to take radical measures themselves and when it becomes "worth it" to risk their present society structure for change they feel is needed to make it good for the future. Ukraine was one example of this. There are many others too. We don't have that experience/will. The hope I see is in those in the military that have been in Iraq recently coming back, many of which are becoming politically active for us. They've seen confrontational actions directly, and know people perhaps in some cases personally who've had to face this decision. Those having fought in these recent conflicts may realize when the times are "tough enough" that demand action on our part to confront them. There will be some, like Timothy McVeigh, who don't do this appropriately, but I think if we work with some of the others coming back, they can help us put where we can channel our efforts towards change appropriately, and give us the spirit to fight together when needed.

[Tyler Durden]

16. The tipping point has passed.

Personally, I look forward to this as a method to bring about a non-Nationalistic society that cares about individuals more than ideology and fake groupings like Nation-states.

Or not.

Anarchy is in the wind, kiddies, and I ain't feeling nice about it.

[bryant69]

18. If it is too late

Than what the fuck are we doing at Democratic Underground? Why did I send Skinner 15 bucks last week (and many of you too I suspect)? I mean why bother playing if we've already lost?

I personally think it's far from too late, but i'm always curious about the mentality of those who do.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[ddzimm]

29. Because five years voting Dem has not worked

Because if enough scared a lonely people cry into the night, it’s a message. If “they” of either party don’t listen, it is at their pearl.

Because I would rather be taken by the Black Van and be executed for treason than to soil the courage of those who fought two hundred and twenty nine years ago.

Because “We the People…” is not a bumper sticker or a campaign slogan. It’s the future for our children.

[newyawker99]

39. Hi ddzimm!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[EstimatedProphet]

20. No, it's not too late but it will take more than marches and votes

Government rules by the consent of the government. Period. They may be able to force consent, but they can't rule without it. Don't give it to them.

[mopinko]

23. it's too late because we have destroyed the planet

maybe they will give i back once the planet is uninhabitable, and we are all dying.

[ddzimm]

25. The America we know now, yes…

The difference between Americans and European, Middle Eastern, African and Latin American peoples who were drawn into Fascism/Dictatorship is there is no thousand-year aristocracy/peasant relationship to force the peasants into unquestioning servitude. There is no single majority race, religion or tribe to rally a desperate populace around and a scapegoat to commit genocide against.

More importantly, over the last thirty years, the Infrastructure that powers current and will power future Government/Military might is not self-sustainable at a regional or even countrywide level. It’s global. The populace cannot be sustained by Victory Gardens and family farms a half a mile’s walk out of town. The vast majority of suburbanites can’t cut down trees or haul bags of coal home in order to keep warm and cook food. The vast majority of workers can’t ride busses or bikes into work in order to save gas for the “war effort”. Stamping pennies in steel and reusing metal cans will not provide a technology dependant military with the raw materials to win wars, either foreign or domestic.

“They” would have to control and protect, therefore restrict and limit, the very socio-economic infrastructure that powers the whole country. It can’t be done because the delivery of basic need items, such as food and water and power (and jobs to buy these items) is dependent of the infrastructure “they” have to control and protect.

Unlike the Russians post Fall of the Wall, we will not stand for waiting for hours in bread lines. We will not burn magazines and newspapers in our front rooms in the dark, hoping power will come back on this week. We won’t drink Vodka until oblivion takes us.

A hundred and fifty million pissed off cold and starving Americans…think about that.

Either way, we get America back.

[undergroundpanther]

30. It's too late

Because the Earth is ruined.
I think the people in power know the Earth is in danger. That humanities time is ending.

So we live like there is no tomorrow maybe because deep down we KNOW there is no tomorrow in a long term future sense. And the thugs in power will see who wins the game of world control before the world is gone.They have been playing this game with each other a long time and all sociopaths want to see a game to the end.
Life in this society with the forced productivity of busy "work" and the soul crushing process we go through to"be somebody""raise a family"and the chronic neglect of relationship ,community and love shared freely between us has made the human race sick and suicidal like owned objects yearning for freedom should feel.

We average people are not playing the games of rulers,we are the cannon fodder .We people on the other hand lost the 'game' from the beginning when we put our trust in"representatives" authority and salespeople."Big men" if you will and gave up our freedom to be who we are for an impossible fantasy of security in a world that is uncertain,can never safe ,controllable or predictable..like our parents so wanted us to believe.We were conned because we never QUESTIONED the con men because we depended on them to survive.

Global warming is limiting our days now,pollution is too rampant and our bodies will suffer because everything is contaminated.The time to limit the scourge of industry has long past. We gave the bullies and"caretakers" who did not care too much power and we refused to take our own power away from the bullying people pushing those same old dysfunctional parental roles imposed on us they had imposed on them ..We refused to accept ourselves, live our own lives,live with each other, as free and responsible people that share a planet together with other different people and species.

This is the cost of an eternal dysfunctional childhood

Some over ambitious ego tripping humans wanted to own the world to exploit, possess and rule it and to do this they prevented people from knowing themselves and being in the present knowing themselves and forming a self actualized identity.Many people have grown up as owned objects and they repeat this pattern of relation everywhere they go.
The people who were owned and not living for what THEY value tend to live for the past and/or the future.. And soon Now will end a now we never had the courage to live in..really.

If you can find out what matters most to you,and FUCK EVERYTHING ELSE.Do you love your kids,than act like it give them time, attention compassion, concern give them the chance to KNOW who you are and give them a chance to BE who they are.. The Earth is giving us a final ultimatum. Do we play make believe to the grave or do we dare LIVE our own life NOW,even if just for a moment? We will all die anyway. Is it better to just die like a owned beast of burden who never knew he was free or to die knowing you are free and not bound by what everyone else told you had to be or else?

Spirituality may have tried to teach people in a confused often sick way how to not cling to the material world,and to get past narcissism and games of make believe and ego trips that make people sick. Maybe spirituality is about getting people free enough from control freaks to find themselves, to self actualize and cherish the fruits of the heart, the mind,the body so that it cannot be exploited or dominated and to cherish and build better relationships in the NOW..and be who you are and let others be who they are.We all are going to die someday.Why not live?

We instead chose to play a big game of "king of the hill" a self destructive make believe game with each other just to avoid growing up and being aware of reality.. and this control game of power is destroying the world because we have let it control us with our obedience and fear of displeasing authority and that asinine puritan work ethic among other social lies we are fed from cradle to grave. We are destroying ourselves and letting sick people and roles made by sick people tell us who we are.The Earth reflects our sickness back to us.

It is too late to stop this because we never stopped playing games with each other long enough or soon enough to wake up and fix the real life problems we have caused ourselves because we waited upon a savior,a king,some'leader' a representative to take care of us like the generations did before us.And now it's caught up to us.DuH!!

And the sociopaths exploited us like vulnerable ignorant,obedient children because that is what we have chosen to be ,because that's how our parents were and how they wanted us to stay,and we never rebelled in a way that was in OUR OWN intersts...and we never had the guts to break out of social programming in any real way to effect real changes that were OURS..

[marions ghost]

34. where's "other"?

I believe we don't quite know yet the answer to this question....meanwhile swim upstream...but SWIM!

[Initech]

36. It's not too late, but I'm also getting pessimistic about the '06 election

I dont think we'll see a truly democratic congress and president that really cares about the best interests of the people (and not of fundamentalist Christianity or the over-bloated oil industry or special interest groups) in my life time.