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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
Omaha Steve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 08:42 PM
Original message
start a UNION group I need some help
Edited on Tue Jan-03-06 08:43 PM by Omaha Steve
I'm a donor. I need 9 others and somebody that will write out a proposed mission statement. I'm a steward for ASFCME (Nebraska Public Employees) local 251 in Omaha.




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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'm not in a union but I think it's a great idea!
I really want to see Labor restored to it's position of prominence in politics and elections. DU would be a great forum for union folks (and supporters) to get together and share ideas.

:thumbsup:
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
2. a Union group here at DU? I'm not in one, but I write about
labor politics in one of my journalism jobs (ironically enuff?). I'd definitely be interested.
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
3. This may not be relevant but a friend and I worked our asses off
to get this shop we were working in to go union, Owners kept telling us if we did they would just move their operation. We called their bluff, voted in the union and came to work the following monday to an empty building. Those were the days. this was in '71
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. and your point?
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #6
19. The point is that there is a cost to pay for change.
But a non-Union job isn't worth having, is it?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'm retired.
But I was the vp in the union when I worked for the county, and many years ago was active in the union in a defense industry (factory). My family have been active in all levels of union work, from local to state to national. One of my cousins is a union activist. I'd have nothing "current" to add, but would be interested as an old-timer. A couple weeks ago, I came across some of the things I wrote for fliers at work. They were pretty good, if I do say so myself.
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Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
5. I'm a brand new union member as of 12/16
RPEP/AFSCME, Retiree Chapter 13. I would have joined before I retired, but the Democratic leadership in the PA House and Senate had a deal with the unions to stay away from the House and Senate employees - believe me, we would have all rushed to join a union. I take it you are referring to a DU "group". But what does it mean to be a "donor"?
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Omaha Steve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Donors that contribute to DU fund raisers (rules to start a group)
One of the best things about DU Groups is that members have the ability to suggest new groups to the Administrators of Democratic Underground. If you wish to suggest a group, please follow this procedure:

1. Start one discussion thread in the forum of your choice to tell people about your idea for a DU Group.

2. In that thread, you must get responses from at least ten DU members who agree to be active participants in the suggested DU Group. All ten members to respond must have donor stars.

3. In that thread, members must agree on a proposed mission statement for the DU Group.

4. When enough members have signed on to join the group and have agreed on a proposed mission statement, one member must officially suggest the DU Group to a DU Administrator (Skinner, EarlG, or Elad), by sending an email. Please be sure to include a link to the thread where members have discussed the proposed Group.

5. The Administrators will consider the request and make a decision. The Administrators will either 1) Accept the Group as it is proposed, 2) Deny the Group outright, or 3) Ask for changes to the Group or its mission statement which would be necessary for its approval.

6. Once the suggested Group has been accepted by the Administrators, the Administrators will create a new DU Group in the "DU Groups" Category forum, and pin the mission statement of that Group to the top of that Group's forum.

If you are considering a DU Group on a controversial topic, the Administrators would appreciate if you contacted us before collecting your ten members, so we may discuss any sensitive issues. This courtesy will increase the chance that your Group is approved. Also, please be aware that proposed Groups that are redundant with existing DU Forums are unlikely to be approved.

If you have any questions, please contact a forum Administrator.

Skinner
EarlG
Elad
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Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. OK. Count me and my star in.
nt
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
8. i would be interested in this. bet there's a lot of news out there
that no one ever hears. i am not in a union, but have been. i do live in a good union town, although some of our unions are just mob scams.
i'd be particularly interested in news of blue collar women. i helped start this group- (who's website seems to be acting up.) http://www.chicagowomenintrades.org/women_in_trades/faq/index.php
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Lady President Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
10. You can add my star
I'm not in a union, but I think there is plenty of news/opinions/goals to keep a group rolling. I'm mainly a lurker, but I would read everything and try to participate.

Personally, labor and employment law was my emphasis in law school. I've never practiced in this area, but I still have a real interest. My dad was a labor negotiator (for management) for decades. He passed away this summer, and I would love a chance to "talk shop" again.
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mohinoaklawnillinois Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
11. You can use my donor star as well.
I'm not in a union, but my Dad and my two brothers were. My paternal grandfather was a organizer way back in the Rock Island Railroad as well.

Great idea, good luck!!
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 07:16 AM
Response to Original message
12. My star, too.
Edited on Wed Jan-04-06 07:17 AM by MercutioATC
NATCA member here.
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
13. I would be interested in supporting this,
although I don't have a lot of experience in the area -- I live in a "right-to-work" state and I work in a non-unionized industry. I guess what I'm saying is I'd like to learn but I don't think I could contribute much (other than my star!) :)
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cmd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
14. Retired union worker here - count me in
I grew up in a union household and was a union member for thirty years and officer for much of that time.
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CornField Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
15. Union member too -- I'll add my name to your list
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
16. You can use my star too.
:thumbsup:
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
17. I'm in! nt
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
18. PROPOSED MISSION STATEMENT
Edited on Wed Jan-04-06 10:58 AM by benburch
The DU "Unions and Union Activists" group shall be a forum for discussing the both the history and future of the American Labor Movement.

Acceptable topics shall be;


  • News stories relating to Unions and Union-busting
  • Discussions about Union history and folklore
  • Discussions related to Unionization efforts, including strategic and tactical planning for same
  • Discussions about elections within particular Unions
  • Discussions and problem-solving about management malfeasance and misfeasance
  • Discussions and problem-solving about workplace safety
  • Discussions and problem-solving about workplace environment, including social and sexual environment
  • Promotion of pro-Union political candidates
  • Campaigns to promote lawmaking that favors Unions and Unionization


Other topics will be allowed at the discretion of the moderators, but anti-Union screeds will be removed or moved to other places on DU.
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Omaha Steve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #18
33. Looks great to me!
Thank you for your hard work.
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Omaha Steve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #18
39. We have to approve these before we can apply! I vote YES!
We have 10 stars for membership. All in favor vote YES. Opposed vote NO! If we don't get a majority yes, we will try to amend until we get it right. I vote YES!





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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. I vote YES!
Perhaps you ought to PM each person who added a star for their return to this thread for the vote?
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Free the Press Donating Member (195 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 03:59 AM
Response to Reply #18
43. Can Unions get a spot on the research thread?
Then all of the critically important resources that an educated union person might need would be readily available and dynamic, while the incubator for the ideas and research reside in the new group itself.

The following are some examples of resources that might be better served in the research forum, as a companion to the new group: (rough draft)

1). Federal Laws, Acts, Agencies, and Judicial Interpretations:

a). Federal Laws: (table & links)

. .. ...

b). Federal Acts: (table & links)

. .. ...

c). Federal Agencies: (table & links)

. .. ...

p.s. thats a fine name you have their benburch!

d). Federal Judiciary and Case Law on Unions. (table & links)

. .. ...

2). Union History:

a). Time-line (table & links)

. .. ...

b). Notable events through the history of unions: (table & links)

. .. ...

3). Unions in the United States. (organizational structures & databases)

a). (Hierarchy of union organizations layout)

*relational database consisting of "click-able" name, address, telephone and fax numbers, websites, union officials, contact persons, e-mail addresses, descriptions of specific unions, qualitative and quantitative data on union, table of links (standard organizational layout to be devised)*

. .. ...

b). (organizational layout by type of union) *linking to above database*

. .. ...

c). (organizational layout by location of union) *linking to above database*

. .. ...

d). (organizational layout by occupation) *linking to above database*

. .. ...

4). "How to" Resources: for exercising rights and organizing unions:

a). Learn your rights:

. .. ...

b). organize a union:

. .. ...

etc. ... **framework** ...
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Free the Press Donating Member (195 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #18
46. "Don't envy unions, join them." discussions
The message that most American workers are failing to understand is that they should not be envious of or hateful toward unions and their members, because it is through the union framework that the quality of life for most workers has historically progressed (e.g. 40 hour work week, enough pay in 40 hours for a husband, wife, or significant other to support their family, superior employment conditions, paid vacations and benefits, and pensions.)

It is outside of those union protections that such hard fought workers' gains have deteriorated and become available to a minority of American workers.

For example, while the US Department of Labor(USDOL) has as its charter a direct order from Congress to to advocate on behalf of and to protect American workers, the current USDOL actually is demonstratively more considerate and deliberate of business and corporate needs than those of workers. In recent years, actions of this USDOL have clearly demonstrated that workers have become disenfranchised by the government agency designed and legislated by Congress to protect workers, while corporations have gladly taken on the role on behalf of workers by influencing the actions of such a government agency and by getting their own advocates politically appointed to run this agency.

Another fine example would be the National Labor Relations Board, which has become so politicized and detached from its charter of protecting workers that it functions as a advocate against workers that finds solutions to problems in ways that favor business interests to the detriment of workers.

Average Americans need to realize that America's resources are being exploited for profits by businesses, as an economic system of capitalism allows and encourages. As industry seeks to profit off of those resources, workers CAN and SHOULD unite and unionize to ensure that they are afforded JUST compensation, JUST working conditions, and JUST standards of living in that process. In fact, if they fail to do so, it is at their own peril.

The business community has an economic and profit interest in convincing American workers to cooperate with them on terms that may and routinely are below the minimum standards that should and could, as demonstrated by history, be available to most, if not all, workers.

When one sees a union member driving a new car, or on vacation, or having their wife or husband at home to raise their family, which is not as prevalent today as it once was in the US - even amongst union members, they should sign off on a union card and join the ranks INSTEAD OF perpetuating one's disadvantages and harboring resentment and envy toward the union member and their family by voting for politicians who will weaken workers legislated rights to unionize and/or carry out union activities.

By doing so, business would be forced to recognize a VERY IMPORTANT concept that you won't learn much about in public school: ********TRUE COST!*********

"True cost" for business would be such cost considerations that DO NOT UNDERVALUE workers wages, standards of living, a 40 hour work week, paid benefits of sick days, family leave, medical care, and pensions, protections from employer negligence, better training, safer work environments, and other benefits in order to artificially keep businesses costs low, profits high, and workers from living a better life.

"True cost" also is a great force against bad, irresponsible, and un-responsible company management, because it increases costs for workers and, thus, product and services that businesses use and/or sell, and leaves less room for business owners to compensate for profits from savings arrived at by denial of those "true costs" and, thus, requires business owners to arrive at profits in other ways, such as good planning, good training, good quality control, good management, and general competence in business practice.

Even managers would be well advised to join unions.

The notion that managers shouldn't be unionized is deeply related to the denial of "true costs" in business decisions. By cooperating with unionized "management workers" a business does not deny itself profitability, instead, it denies workers, including those "management workers," the benefit of charging that business the "true cost" for producing its products.

To be sure, when a business is anti-union, it is anti-worker!

While there are many companies in the US that offer good pay and benefits to their workers, each and every one of them is using a business model that is designed to prevent their workers from having truly organized power to negotiate wages, benefits, and working conditions that are reflective of "TRUE COST."

Even in seemingly fair-minded businesses, there is a profit motive for using such a business model, otherwise a business would not have a preference to use non-union workers over union workers in the long run.

Businesses left to themselves to seek to maximize their profits have demonstrated over the past 40 years that they sought to petition the US Supreme Court for Constitutional protections for businesses and reductions of Constitutional protections for people in order to maximize their profits using a business model that completely ignores "true Costs" for people.

The truth, again, is that when businesses can deny the existence of or avoid having to pay "true costs" they do! They then appreciate the profits from their savings while their workers feel the cost of those savings in varying degrees and even extremes, in terms of lower wages, fewer benefits, and worse working conditions.

They react even more inhumanely by consolidating such profits until a majority of the people, worldwide, are servants to business interests that are few in number and massive in size of revenues, owned by a comparatively minuscule number of people, and these businesses are able to peddle influence over and ultimately place their agents in prominent positions within the peoples' government over their own affairs and then use their influence over such agents to legislate their own political business agenda and to deny people their own self rule.

In the end, so long as workers see each other, especially seeing union members, as enemies instead of allies, and see businesses as worker-benefactors rather than as consumers of workers' labor and services, and see businesses selfishly and advantageously dictate terms of workers' employment to workers' disadvantage, the union movement will not have succeeded.

Humans are not on this Earth to serve commerce, but instead to use commerce to their advantage, globally!

A political system such as capitalism is not a higher order than a political system such as Democracy. Rather Capitalism is a tool of Democracy!

If Democracy should become a tool of Capitalism, then, in fact, Democracy shall have become a totalitarian state.

When your job requires you to work 90 hour work weeks, to have another person raise your child, to prevent you from being able to live in a comfortable and respectable lifestyle and accommodations, then don't blame unions ... join one!

When businesses are made to pay "true costs" for the labor and services of workers, the cost of products and services will surely be higher, but, globally, those products and services will be more affordable to people, because "true Cost" will be built-into the pricing for those products and services and there will be more potential consumers with ample money to afford those products and services.

Products and services that are in demand will flourish and businesses that invest in their workers will succeed. All other products and services and businesses will become irrelevant and obsolete when "true cost" is factored into commerce.

Business may try to move elsewhere in order to avoid "true costs," but ultimately, business will have no place to run to when workers are globally united and insistent on charging businesses "true costs" for labor and services that they sell to these businesses - even in Ethiopia or other presently poor nations.

If every business took off for another land, workers could take advantage of the resources left behind to create businesses that provide labor and services as demanded, while keeping out products from other nations that are produced by means that deny "true costs."

Eventually, businesses would have no choice but to consider the "true costs" of doing business, irrespective of where such business operates.

In time, global balance in costs would be reached. Businesses would no longer be able to migrate to avoid "true costs."

Unions are for the benefit of all.

They are the framework that encourages businesses toward the ultimate recognition of the true costs for the products and services they produce, and that offers workers a historically proven method for achieving a superior lives by giving workers substantial personal time, money, benefits, and protections that they have historically been denied despite all of their hard work.
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converted_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
20. Use me for my star!! (Actually refreshing compared to the things I'm
usually used for!)
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
21. Union family here (AFSCME)
Count me in.
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dogman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
22. Unions are the working man's only hope.
I'm in!
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MrMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
23. You can add me to the list.
The dead miners in West Virginia should remind people of the conditions under which workers first formed unions.
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Bombero1956 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. count me in
Proud member of the IAFF.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
25. ttt
I'm sure somebody like louis c would be interested as well
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
26. no star yet...
but as a non-union worker living below the poverty level, my contributions tend to be time and skills oriented lately. I would love to see a group in this vein and be a party to contributing. As it happens, i am trying to get a job with AFSCME at a local State Uni. We'll see about that. I'm interested in salting and instigating education. So count me in, maybe there'll be a star in it sometime in the future.




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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
27. I don't have a star anymore, I'm lucky to still be on the net!
I've been a union member for 30 years. I've been a job steward on most of the jobs I've ever worked on. I have always stood my ground when it came to holding the hard core union hating construction bosses feet to the fire on union matters. I've had foreman's jobs sometimes too and I always got more work out of my brothers by treating them right, than I could have EVER gotten by "PUSHING" people.

Bush is the worst threat the unions have ever contended with, that I can remember. Things started to turn to shit under Reagan for the working man and It's gone downhill ever since. I worked like a dog for 30 years in the cold, the heat, the mud and the blood, for my little pension and now I have to worry about the GOP cronies stealing it ,along with our Social Security. The way I see it, the fight for unionization isn't about over in America, our biggest fights ever are yet to come.

PM me if there is anything I can do and I'll try my best. I admit my best may not be what it once was, but the fight is still in this old dog and this old dog never did take to being kicked around, too kindly.

If Lech Walesa could win under the thumb of the USSR, so can we beat back this systematic corporate fascist takeover of America..."Solidarity." UNITY is the key! If America ever really forms a third party with any teeth, I pray that it's a Labor Party...

American workers far outnumber the bad guys, we CAN Win...
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GrpCaptMandrake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
28. Me and my star are on board for this one
We can talk about impeachment and Fitzmas and so forth, but nothing, and I do mean NOTHING will revitalize the left like a re-vitalized labor movement.
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
29. so, do we have 10? nt
did i say, me too?
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Yes. We have ten. nt
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Next, some discussion of the mission statement I proposed?
Shoot it full of holes if you like!
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. it sounds great to me, ben.
as long as the admin buys it.
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ohtransplant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
31. Count me in!
Proud member of NTEU!
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hamerfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
34. A great idea!
Why hasn't this been done before? Heck, I'll go get another star (I'm lapsed) to be involved in this group.
Ben, the mission statement looks fine.
As prevalent as union-hating is these days, someplace like this with the facts could do a world of good (who knows, maybe even save a few lives?).
dumpbush
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hamerfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
35. A shameless plug
For all my brothers and sisters out there. If you need to spend your hard earned dollars, please check out this web site first:



The job you save could be yours or your loved ones. Thanks,
dumpbush
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DiverDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Thanks for the link
And I am currently lokking for another job driving a truck.
Both places I have submitted my application to are union shops.
I support you all the way, and would be proud to do what I can to help you out.
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Bluzmann57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
38. Be proud to
I am a damn proud Union man and suspect I always will be. Don't know how much I can contribute toward a mission statement, but count me in anyway! International Association of Boilermakers here.
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brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
41. Union, Yes!
My star for a Union label! I support your proposal. Used to be on the Board of my local.Count me in.
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hamerfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 03:31 AM
Response to Original message
42. A kick
for the early morning crowd due to the importance of the subject...

:kick:

dumpbush
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driver8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 04:18 AM
Response to Original message
44. I'm a union member -- use my star if you need it!
I am so grateful that I am in a union (IATSE 700 - Editors Guild). Ok, unions aren't perfect, but they give the "working people" a chance at a fair wage, health benefits, and safe working conditions.

I am so sick and tired of people bashing unions that do not know the first thing about them. Unions have been portrayed as the "bad guys" for too long -- it is time to let the American people know what a union is all about.

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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 04:20 AM
Response to Original message
45. I know we've got ten stars, but I'll add my "hell yeah" just the same
HELL YEAH!
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Skinner ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
47. This group has been created.
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