Cheney : Stop all the alcohol BS...

[hexola]

I think DC is a lot of things - but I'd be fairly certain he's not consuming alcohol these days...his health wont allow for that.

So - SHUT UP with all alcohol accusations!!!

You make us look like farkin fools!

This is about character and judgement...as one caller CSPAN caller put it - its like the kid who wrecked the family car but wont fess up...

Character matters!!!

[endarkenment]

1. Ok so you explain the 22 hour stall.

Why were the police not allowed to interview Cheney immediately after the incident?

[Atman]

10. How about "because he's the Vice President and does whatever he wants?"

I mean, come on!

He took out a country just because he wanted to, and has held off any serious inquiry for four years. You can't see that maybe he was able to stall the local sheriff? Why is that so hard to believe?

[txindy]

12. The delay isn't hard to believe.

The reasoning behind it is what's being speculated on. Even Ron Reagan asked about alcohol yesterday. Twice. He didn't get an answer, either.

[mwb970]

53. Except for Tweety kidding him about bringing it up! (n/t)

[Viva_La_Revolution]

13. unless you are hiding something, why stall?

He's no idiot. He had to know that stalling would look like he was hiding something. If not that he was drinking, then what?

[Atman]

23. I don't think it is too hard to believe he was hiding because he could

This story is so bizarre all by itself, why must we assume stuff to make it seem even more bizarre? Why couldn't Cheney simply have thought, in all his infamous arrogance, that he could "manage" this story? Perhaps he was simply worried about exactly what is happening now, that he and the GOP would heap more ridicule upon themselves, and he ONCE AGAIN horribly misjudged the situation? It isn't like he doesn't have a history of horrible lapses in judgement.

[txindy]

35. You need to re-read what you just wrote, I think.

"It isn't like he doesn't have a history of horrible lapses in judgement."

I agree. Yet you refuse to consider that, even given Darth's medical history, he might have resumed drinking alcohol?

[Atman]

43. I refused to consider that?

Wow. News to me. I didn't refuse to consider anything. I offered another plausible scenerio.

[txindy]

48. That's certainly what I took from this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=413306&mesg_id=413393

However, it's possible you and I just aren't communicating clearly. I can't figure out what you're saying, at any rate.

[Atman]

51. All I am saying is that NEITHER of us know what happened

We're both posting our own speculations. Except somehow, it appears that you think I am the only person whose SPECULATION could possibly be wrong.

[txindy]

52. Not at all. I'm saying that your speculation isn't the only one allowed.

We can all speculate. The OP, meanwhile, believes we need to "SHUT UP" or look like "farkin fools." That's what I'm talking about. Speculate all you want, but don't deny anyone else the right to - and, no, I never said you did or would.

[electron_blue]

54. It's enough just to want to hide the fact that he shot the guy in the

first place. He's probably used to MSM *not* covering his life, his deeds, his maneuvering. Frankly, most people would try to keep that out of the news. What is galling is that not that he tried (we expect that from him), but that he got his way. I think we expect the man's family, the hospital, his friends, or the media, or someone to report it immediately. And that was all supressed for a little bit.

Who finally "broke" the story, btw?

[Atman]

58. That's what I've been trying to say, too.

I can see lots of reasons why the most powerful man in the world would want to hide something so embarrassing. Frankly, reaching for alcohol as a primary reason is being intellectually lazy if one is also unwilling to consider that perhaps, just perhaps, Cheney tried to cover it up merely because he thought he could. After all, what level of arrogance and power-lust does it take to invade a sovereign nation and think you get away with it? But he had to be sloshed to want to cover up a shooting accident?

:shrug:

[Viva_La_Revolution]

2. We've been over this!

Alcoholics do not stop drinking just because they have a heart problem.

You tell me why they waited, why the cops weren't allowed to talk to him till the next day? Why they were hunting quail in the evening?

I can't say for certain, but I'd take odds that he was before taking odds that he wasn't.

[lpbk2713]

15. True statement.

And a power hungry alcoholic is ten times worse.

[babylonsister]

3. I won't discount anything til Dick comes clean. How do we know

he's not imbibing? If you know definitively, please enlighten the rest of us!

[Auntie Bush]

22. So the VP is above the law!

Doesn't have to talk to the police after shooting someone in the face.
Could we have done that?

Didn't have to take a Breathalyzer test after shooting someone.
Could we have refused without receiving fines?

Didn't have a stamp on his license...which is against the law and makes the license valid. I happen to know someone who was fined for that.
Could we have gotten away with no stamp and no problems?

How come he was on an overnight hunting trip with two other women who weren't their wives? I wonder if Cheney's wife knew he was with a beautiful women?

[babylonsister]

27. He apparently thinks he is; his hubris knows no bounds. nt

[AbbyR]

61. Of course the VP is above the law....

his name isn't Clinton, after all.

[onenote]

24. and by "coming clean" what do you mean?

If he says he wasn't drinking, will you accept that?

onenote

[babylonsister]

26. I may not believe him, but I think he needs to exhibit

some accountability for his actions.
Now this guy is back in ICU, while yesterday all was well, just flesh wounds, blah, blah, blah.
Don't you think Cheney owes an explanation?
But as far as his drinking or not, I suspect we'll never get the true skinny on that.

[MrBenchley]

4. Who says it's BS?

"I'd be fairly certain he's not consuming alcohol these days...his health wont allow for that."
Yeah, he looks like the guy who's following a healthy lifestyle, all righty.

As Peggy Noonan once said, "It would be irresponsible not to speculate."

[formercia]

5. Cheney has been drunk on power for decades

he doesn't need alcohol...

[CrazyOrangeCat]

6. I'll shut up when I'm good and ready, thank you.

You haven't been around as many crazy old men as I have.

I worked in a factory when I was young, and I saw some behavior you clearly would not believe if I told you.

And yes, it IS about character and judgement . . .

[Atman]

7. Thanks, my flame-proof suit got pretty scorched up yesterday!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x409178

How dare I think a cranky old fart with a very bad ticker would not be drinking heavily!

Lots of kids of alcoholics, bartenders, etc, posted that they've seen lots of old heart patients drink. But I doubt they've seen many brazillionair second-in-commands sitting at Moe's bar swilling whiskey. I'm not sure Dick was ever a big drinker, was he? I honestly don't know. He seems to me to be the naturally angry type.

[txindy]

14. He's been arrested multiple times for drunk driving.

Why in the world would he stop now? And why would he need to go to a bar to drink? That's silly.

[Atman]

25. Easy questions...

"Why in the world would he stop now?"

Perhaps you answered your own question...he's been popped for DUI several times. Combine that with his bad ticker, and maybe he actually did finally wake up. Stranger things have happened. Like shooting a friend in the face.

"why would he need to go to a bar to drink? That's silly."

Actually, I didn't say Cheney needed to go to a bar to drink. In fact, that was my point...several other DUers try to equate Cheney with alcoholic dads or uncles or bar patrons. But Cheney is a brazillionaire world leader. You simply can't equate his situation with much of anything. What drives a poor downtrodden alcoholic into a gin joint is likely not the same motivator for a world leader. Cheney likely isn't feeling too much despair and hopelessness in his life, if you catch my drift. He could purchase himself a new heart if he could one. There are very different dynamics at play.

[txindy]

34. He doesn't believe the rules apply to him.

He probably doesn't believe anything, such as mere alcohol, can hurt him, either. Particularly the expensive kind that he imbibes in private. Some alcoholics with liver transplants have resumed drinking, too. I think they might have had a hint right there in surgery that drinking was not a good idea. Didn't stop them, though.

As for his being popped for DUI, so what? The creature lied to the world, over and over again, about WMD and has been called on it, yet he'd worry about being popped for another DUI? His best buddy is under indictment and he's concerned he might get pulled over for driving under the influence? :rofl:

Talk about speculating. So, people can't speculate about something (i.e., alcohol) that has definitely affected Darth in the past, yet it's okay for you to speculate that he "actually did finally wake up?" Oh. Okay.

[Atman]

40. You should read a lot of stuff that wasn't there! WOW!

You're good! I didn't even know I said half the stuff you attributed to me! That must be why you're rolling on the floor, I guess. Where on earth did I mention the VP's driving? I don't think that fat fuck has driven his own car in eons. Why would he? Don't roll on the floor laughing at me for stuff YOU said, not me. My point about the DUI is that they are often seminal moments for alcoholics. Combined with his bad ticker, I fail to see what is so funny/unbelievable about it.

"Talk about speculating. So, people can't speculate about something (i.e., alcohol) that has definitely affected Darth in the past, yet it's okay for you to speculate that he "actually did finally wake up?"

First of all, while you're pointing out where I said people can't speculate on something, you might want to reflect on the hilarity of your point, since you're already rolling on the floor...yes, it is perfectly okay for me to speculate anything I damned well please. And I did. Just as you did.

See how that works? We both can speculate all we want...it's only a message board. And neither of us actually have a clue what happened, do we? So I'd say my speculation is certainly just as reasonable as yours, unless you have some inside info you're not sharing with us.

Do you?

You can get up off the floor now. You look silly down there, and you're scaring the quail.

[txindy]

44. Not there? What's this, then?

"Why in the world would he stop now?"

Perhaps you answered your own question...he's been popped for DUI several times. Combine that with his bad ticker, and maybe he actually did finally wake up. Stranger things have happened. Like shooting a friend in the face.


Seems to me you were suggesting he quit because he's afraid of getting popped for DUI. :shrug:

I'm laughing because you and the OP were unhappy about people speculating that alcohol was involved, yet, ironically enough to me, you are happy to speculate about Darth's motivations concerning alcohol. You are free to speculate as much as you want, that's my point. So are the rest of us. Also my point.

[Atman]

55. "Seems to me..." being the operative words here.

I never alluded to any fear of another DUI arrest. I very clearly stated that his DUI's, in concert with his heart problems, may simply have been the proverbial "wake up call" for Cheney that he drinking days were over. Why on earth that equates to a fear of another DUI, especially in a man who likely hasn't driven his own car in a decade, is what I don't get. You're putting 2 and 2 together to arrive at the 5 you want, and getting pissed at me because it doesn't add up.

[txindy]

57. I'm perplexed.

Not pissed. I don't care enough to be pissed.

I still don't get what you think is so clear, but I can see that we're not going to understand each other. Although, I do think we agree that everyone is free to speculate. Which was my original point.

Honestly, and without any snarkiness, I think you should contact Ron Reagan and get his opinion on your position regarding Darth and alcohol. He had questions about it. Multiple questions. I'd love to hear his response.

[calimary]

60. True. He also seems like the naturally arrogant type. So it would not

surprise me at all if he HAD been drinking, and needed to dry out talking to the local law, especially when two local sheriffs went out there to the ranch Saturday evening (they hadn't gotten the word to hold off til tomorrow) and were sent away.

You know, there may be nothing to it, but it doesn't LOOK LIKE there may be nothing to it. If there really were nothing to it, what was he so adamant about hiding? If it was an innocent hunting accident, don't you think it'd make sense to get the story out there quickly, and on YOUR terms, rather than having it pulled out of you later by lots of people asking annoying questions? I watched Olbermann last night and dribs and drabs of other things, and one of the local people near there said a couple of deputies going out that night to get a statement from cheney were turned away - nobody'd been invited til the next day and they hadn't gotten the memo).

Also heard people, in connection with the Abramoff photos - pointing out that the problem here is if YOU DON'T GET OUT IN FRONT OF THE STORY - like the White House is not doing, dragging its feet about letting any photos out. If the White House released the photos, they'd be doing it on their terms, getting out in front of the story, and it would be their playing field. If somebody else, like Abramoff, releases the photos instead, then it's on HIS terms, HIS playing field, with HIM getting out in front of the story, and NOT the White House doing so. Same ethic is in play, here, I think. Which is why this story is getting bigger and messier. Because OTHER people have come in and let the cats out of the bags.

And as john ashcroft would have said - "if you've done nothing wrong, then you should have nothing to worry about, and there should be no problem, 'eh?" How 'bout it, dick?

One other thing - anyone here who speculates that it's the ego of the CEO operating here: the "nobody tells ME what to do," or the "we don't need no steeeenking badges!" attitude - I think is probably spot-on. That's where THIS guy's arrogance comes from. He's used to being the big cheese at Halliburton, and in the private sector you DON'T talk back to your boss or hold him/her accountable and DON'T force him/her to answer a lot of nosy questions from subordinates (the category in which cheney clearly has placed everyone else on the planet), and you don't answer to anyone except maybe a few select members of the board of directors and a couple of prominent stockholders, because you're the boss and you simply don't have to. I think that's his mindset to this very day. It's one of the cardinal reasons why NO ONE should EVER try to run government like a business. It's just completely wrong. In government, you work for THE PEOPLE, and like it or not, you ARE answerable and accountable, because you're doing the PEOPLE'S business - supposedly not for profit, either. The federal government is not in the profit-making business. That's not the kind of entity it is. But nobody's ever bothered to explain that to people like cheney - who have no business trying to run governments, to begin with.

So, to get back to the drinking speculation - why WOULDN'T he go ahead and have a few, just because he could? Why wouldn't he flout authority here? When my dad was dying of complications from diabetes, do you think for one instant he swore off the candy bars and donuts? Are you kidding? It was "bring 'em on" time with him - all the donuts and ice cream and candy and chocolate and homemade preserves and cheap carbs and pancakes and crap he shouldn't be eating - but he did. And it made him sick and miserable, but by God, NOBODY was gonna tell HIM what to do (believe me, we tried). By then, he didn't care anymore. By then, he'd make sardonic remarks about how it didn't matter anymore anyway because he wasn't gonna be around much longer. And when he had my mom who did nothing but enable him - so beaten down by his bullying by then, that she just gave up fighting him on it - he just kept on eating like that. My dad owned his own business, too, and ran it like a tyrant, so I can see the cheney mentality in effect - there, AND here. I'd bet you all the chocolate on Valentine's Day that this is where cheney comes from, too. By now, NOBODY DARES to tell him what to do. Not even kkkarl rove. And certainly not georgie boy, who's but a bump on the pavement to cheney, on his drive to the ultimate power he's lusted after for about three decades.

[Atman]

66. HERE HERE! Best post on the subject yet.

You've said just what I've been trying to, and getting hammered for.

It is almost our quaintness as "mere citizens" which is causing such speculations about his alcohol. It seems to us, on our part of the food chain, that it would have to be about booze or something. That's the kind of stuff WE always get in trouble for, right? Saying something stupid while drunk, driving while drunk...we find it hard to believe that people would do something out of shear arrogance, because many of us cannot even fathom the level of arrogance it would take. How many of us have a freakin' clue what it is like to be able to snap your fingers and order a world war? It is this exceptional self-annointed god-like status that probably had him figuring at one point that he could just silence everyone who crossed him on this. It's worked for his energy meetings, his war, everything. Why is such a stretch for some to believe this was just another run-of-the-mill BushCo abuse of power, which only surfaced when it became clear that he wasn't in control of the story, not even 24 hours later?

The concept of such absolute power is just something we groundlings often can't wrap our heads around, so we need to frame things in more "pedestrian" terms we understand...boozing and broads. Now THAT we get!

[calimary]

70. OMG! I got a heart! THANK YOU, kind soul - whoever sent it to me!

(I was starting to feel kinda unloved...)

WOW! My self esteeeeeeeeem...

:toast:

:loveya:

[peekaloo]

8. Even Letterman took a shot at the drinking angle last night.

Called it "drunk hunting".

Maybe ol' Dick is eating well these days but he has looked bloated in recent pics.

:shrug:

[txindy]

9. People who tell others to shut up w/o facts of their own qualify as fools.

Just sayin'.

Adding: Don't forget to contact Ron Reagan. He brought up the alcohol question twice yesterday. Live, on television. That farkin' fool. :eyes:

[hexola]

30. attack the message...(nt)

[endarkenment]

Which is different from what your OP was exactly how? nt.

[txindy]

39. That's what you should do, then. Instead of calling people here names.

And telling them to "Shut up."

Let us know what Ron Reagan has to say after you pass on your original message to him. We're talking about this on a message board. He was on national television.

[BOSSHOG]

11. You are fairly certain he is not imbibing

How? Please tell us. He is an incredibly evil human being who believes he will not be held responsible for anything; and why shouldn't he? His health won't allow him to drink? Please help me out with that one. His doctor may tell him not to drink but does that mean he has stopped drinking? The drinking issue made Letterman's top ten; is he a farkin fool? I'm used to being told to shut up by "conservatives." But I will if you can convince me beyond any reasonable doubt that he wasn't drinking on Saturday. Or taking drugs, or having sex; cheating on his wife.

[calimary]

69. Now there's ANOTHER one - the cheating-on-his-wife bit.

WHY were there two men and two women on the trip - none of them married to each other? And the women were evidently attractive middle-aged women, too. I remember seeing in some places around here, speculation yesterday that this could be one of those hunting-trips excuses that a Lothario husband gives to his wife so she'll stay home while he goes out hunting (WITH someone else - not her). I'm not into hunting, so I don't know personally, but I'll take it from people here who are.

Didn't Peggy "Reagan's Monica" Noonan once say "it would be irresponsible not to speculate"?

[Bridget Burke]

16. Cheney would be unwise to drink....

But this supposedly smart guy has done many things that were unwise--or downright stupid. He's filthy rich & has serious health problems. He should just retire & count his money. But he refuses to do so.

Please--support your opinions. But why should other DU'ers SHUT UP?

[KharmaTrain]

17. What's Good For The Kennedy Is Good For The Chenney

Nothing like some good irony here, no? I'm sure enjoying it.

Crashcart had DUI convictions! That proves he's had a past problem of consuming alcohol and driving so wrecklessly he caught the eye of several police. It means he thought he was in control of a situation that he wasn't and had little regard for those around him who would suffer the consequences. As someone else here posted, this shooting incident shows every character flaw in Crashcart and puts it on display for those who haven't really seen it before. I suspect this story will fester. I can't wait until he's forced to hold a press conference...I'll have to make a special run for :popcorn:

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hexola]

19. Alcohol is too convenient - not sinister enough...

I think you guys are cutting him too much slack - an alcohol related accident is too understandable - too easy to brush off.

Wow - a guy hunting quail was having a few beers - like thousands of other americans..

This is about the character of people who live so detached from society that they lack the perspective to do the right thing.

I'd much rather have this come down to a Cheneys poor character, proclivity to lie, and basic disdain for the Amercian people...not just some alcohol related accident...

Your going to lose traction with the alcohol approach...Im willing to believe it - but I doubt it.

For me - the accident itself is doesnt mean much - its everything that happened after that that shows what these people are all about.

[Bunny]

64. Hmmm...

"Your going to lose traction with the alcohol approach...Im willing to believe it - but I doubt it."

Seems to me the Republicans have gained "traction" over Chappaquiddick (remember that little drunken lapse of character for Ted K.?)for the past 37 years. I'm not real concerned that we'll lose points by focusing on possible alcohol use.

[land of the free]

20. I don't think it's right to make scandalous guesses about this

The story is bad enough as it is - the VEEP shot someone while hunting, then tried to delay the story so it wouldn't be the fodder of the Sunday talkshow circuit.

It's not right to create wild speculation about his sobriety. To me, that's just as bad as Frist saying that Terri Schaivo looks healthy via video. Actually, on second thought, spreading speculation that Cheney was drunk is worse - after all, did any of us see him stumbling around on video after the incident? No.

I agree with the OP that it makes us look bad to say this kind of stuff. We have no right to guess why he delayed the report and didn't contact police.

The story is bad enough as it is. An elderly man has been injured. Why do we feel the need to make it seem even worse by injecting wild speculation?

There are a lot of bigger scandals than this out there, IMO.

[txindy]

28. The 22 hour delay isn't speculation.

Explain that and people will stop speculating. Oh, and call Ron Reagan, too, because he asked about alcohol being involved twice yesterday. Live, on TV. Twice. Does he look bad, too? No, because a delay like that reeks of scandal. It may even reek of alcohol. Especially when it involves a person (Darth) who has been cited multiple times for drunk driving. We didn't pull the alcohol speculation out of mid-air. We didn't have to.

[Bunny]

62. And Ron Reagan may actually be in a position to have insider

information on whether Cheney is still imbibing. If he is bringing it up on national TV, I'm willing to acknowledge the very real possibility that drinking was involved in Saturday's "accident".

[Double T]

21. The cheney story reeks of the possibility that alcohol..........

might have been involved. This guy has NO character and the worst of judgment; he has proved that over and over again.

[MadHound]

29. Oh STFU yourself friend, you have no proof one way or the other

However it is well known that people who have drunk regularly throughout their lives will continue drinking, even after major heart surgeries, even in cases where it threatens their health and life. They can't stop. It is also well known the ol' Crashcart has a history of drinking, in fact he has two DWIs from his younger days, indicative that he at least had a drinking problem in his youth.

It is also well known that Cheney was at least a social drinker throughout the Reagan-Bush years. Whether or not this continued in his current post is speculation, but given his lack of diet control or exercise, I would say that this is a man who would indeed be drinking, in spite of his heart problems.

Therefore the speculation about there being alcohol involved is valid. Besides, Cheney probably didn't need to drink a lot. Even one drink can impair a person, and effect their judgement on matters like, oh, say when to shoot and when to hold one's fire.

And it is mighty damn suspicious that authorities weren't contacted for such a long time. Like maybe they were letting something clear out of somebody's system:shrug:

[hexola]

32. "Its well known"...pure guesswork...Who cares if Cheney still drinks?

Like I said - I could believe it - but Im doubting it...

The suspicous nature of their recation says it all...they are so used to hiding EVERYTHING - that this minor mishap was treated like a national secret...

The sinister part is the cover-up - I really dont care if Cheney drinks or not...Im not a puritan or conservative.

Who cares if Cheney still drinks? - He's a grown man and can do what he wants...

[Stephanie]

36. No. He can't drink while he's shooting off guns.

NO. WTF?

[txindy]

41. Interesting, isn't it?

The OP's gone from not believing to not caring. :shrug:

[hexola]

45. I refining my position...its all very consisitent...

I can believe it...I doubt it...and I dont really care if he drinks or not. He's an adult.

[txindy]

49. With a loaded gun in his hands. Combined, those two are illegal.

The VP doing something illegal doesn't interest you? Now THAT interests me.

[hexola]

63. Yeah - most people speed too...

Its the kind of illegal thing that we all do...I live in rural PA...I cant get too excited about fellas having a few beers while hunting...Im not about to start a crusade locally...

I just dont think the alcohol angle is where the evil is...

The cover-up says much more about these people...

[Stephanie]

56. So in your opinion adults are allowed to shoot guns while drunk?

Doesn't matter to you either way, eh?

[hexola]

68. Allowed? - I guess its illegal...

Right? - I guess I would prefer hunters did not drink - but I also wish people wouldnt speed...but I live with that in the same way...

But - I dont see it as evil...just normal for people who are into that stuff.

I dont hunt or shoot - but I've sat on the tailgate drinking a few beers with my buddies while shooting groundhogs...and hung with the Dove hunters drinking whiskey.

Some of them smoke pot and hunt too - boy is that ever scary!!!!!!

[endarkenment]

73. It is indeed illegal and

if you shoot somebody in the face while intoxicated it is a felony.

That is the point. That is why we are chasing this bird.

[MadHound]

47. It is the cover up that is bothersome, it is also the hypocrisy involved

If indeed this was just an accident, why wasn't it reported for so long? The period of time in question seems to suggest that something was up, that something needed to be gotten rid of, like alcohol in the system.

And if alcohol was involved, then this takes this relatively minor incident to a whole new level. Accidently shooting somebody while under the influence is a felony in many states. You know, high crimes and misdemeanors stuff. Compound that with a cover up, well then we have impeachment material.

This whole incident is quite suspicious. From the failure to report, to the good looking hunting partner Dicky boy had. It all could boil down to nothing, but we'll probably never know for sure. But still and all, it is an incident that raises all kinds of red flags in my book.

[hexola]

71. Cheney could have twisted his ankle and they would try to cover it up!!!

I think this is their nature - they are so used to filtering and lying that they cant stop. They are part of an isolated little culture and dont know how to relate to the world.

I think the cover up is due to the fellow being injured much more severly than they are letting on.

Regardless - I think the cover-up says more about this gang than Cheneys alcohol consumption...even if it turns out to be a factor...

[land of the free]

78. well said. n/t

[kayice]

31. Question? Wasn't the reason Cheney was hobbling around recently

gout? And wasn't this kept under wraps, so to speak for awhile? Look up gout and some of the causes for it.

Why the cover-up for gout?

It is not unreasonable to question when everyone knows that one of the first questions out of a cop's mouth in such an accident, 'has anyone been drinking today'?

[dogday]

33. Because the VP has not been forthcoming on the actual

events of the situation, we speculate. When you wait 24 hours to break this story and you break it in such a fashion that the act itself is suspicious.

Not ask questions? Questions are all we have in this situation. Why did the SS keep the Sheriff away from the VP? Isn't it standard procedure to check to see if a hunter is under the influence. I know there is a law about drinking and shooting.

[crankybubba]

59. as an l.e.o.

a big red flag to me is that the ss denied the sheriff's dept access to cheney to interview him after the incident. they would know immediatley if he had been drinking. strong odor associated with an alcoholic beverage about his person..etc. when the cop asks the question 'has anyone been drinking today'? he already knows the answer and is seeing if the subjects are going to try to lie to him or not.

[ReadTomPaine]

77. Is it legal to deny a sheriff access in this situation?

Esp since nothing even remotely close to national security would be involved. If they had the inclination, could those officers on the scene have insisted on questioning Cheney and brushed aside secret service objections? I don't see how the SS have jurisdiction in this matter, and if they were obstructing justice, couldn't they also be arrested?

Most of the LE that I know would be incensed at being told to buzz off inside their own jurisdiction, particularly over something like a questionable incident with a firearm at close range.

[crankybubba]

85. yes they could be charged

with obstruction. wont happen in texas though(:()

[endarkenment]

37. Why it is right to guess what happened.

When the media presents a story that is full of holes it is appropriate, in fact it is obligatory, for the blogosphere to ask the questions that aren't being asked, to provide plausible alternative narratives for the implausible Official Story from our plethora of Comical Alis.

This is the role that we play that is actually important, that goes beyond useless isolated typing in cubicles and homes, that makes us a community with a voice and with power.

Do we sometimes look like 'farkin fools'. Absolutely. So what? We also force the Official Story to change by the minute. We are the hunt dogs flushing out the prey. We are what the media used to be, back before the nightmare started, we are 1,000,000 Helen Thomases, and we need to never stop asking the questions that aren't being asked, never stop providing the alternative narratives to the Official Bullshit.

[chat_noir]

38. bumpersticker

http://www.cafepress.com/shop/politics/browse/store/lavenderliberal.34697638

[ReadTomPaine]

42. Nonsense. True or not, tar him with it and make it stick.

Politics is a contact sport. Dems used to know this, back when they won elections. In a fixed casino, there's only one way to win. Check out the history of the Kennedys if you want to see how to win elections. When Dems fight like they want to win, the only solution the GOP has is a rifle with a scope.

And as far as being a fool, well.. I'm not the one claiming an honest character will get you far in modern politics, particularly at this point in time. That's not just foolish, but dangerously naive. You'd last about 2 months working in the beltway.

[endarkenment]

46. No we have to play nice

and wait for the officials to tell us everything we need to know, and then consider all sides and present a proper, responsible well reasoned opinion that is fair to everyone.

otherwise we might look like farkin fools.

I seem to recall a bunch of farkin fools, scratch that, total asshats, known as the 'swiftboat asshats for truth', who took down a presidential candidate. We wouldn't want to embarass ourselves like that.

[mwb970]

50. Cheney is encouraging this speculation by stonewalling.

I personally think it was somewhat unlikely that he was drinking due to his health issues. But it sure doesn't hurt to have people discussing it.

And if this was supposed to be a "diversion" from all the other accusations swirling around the Dick, well, it backfired.

[Beausoir]

65. You are completely mis-informed.

I know from first hand experience with a loved one...an alcoholic WON'T stop drinking, even in the last stages of alcohol induced cardio-myopathy.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Who's the "farkin' fool" now?

Speak for yourself.

[hexola]

72. I live with an Alcoholic...

I know all too well - thank you.

You HAVE NO IDEA of Dick Cheneys alcohol consumption habits...NONE!!!!

Keep guessing!!!

[Beausoir]

79. Then you should know better.

You are misinformed.

[H2O Man]

67. You're silly. n/t

[Swamp Rat]

81. :-D

[H2O Man]

89. Ha! n/t

[Javaman]

74. "I'll drink to that!" - dick cheney. nt

[Nye Bevan]

75. Remember he has heart, not liver problems

and there are many studies suggesting that moderate alcohol consumption can actually protect against heart attacks.

If he had chronic liver disease or hepatitis then I would tend to agree with you.

But applying Occam's razor-- the question is, why else would he not report the incident immediately, knowing that it would come out eventually and he would be criticized for the delay? I find it very easy to believe that he was imbibing single malt with his cronies earlier that evening.

[LaPera]

76. Cheney was shit-faced!!!

[against all enemies]

80. Let's see the blood alcohol test - or do you believe what they tell you.

Isn't everybody at least asked for a blood test? What drugs is he on? Any that say shouldn't use heavy equipment? It's all fair game. Any one involved in an accidental shooting should be screened. If they don't provide it they are hiding something.

[Bluebear]

82. "You make us look like farkin fools!" LMAO!!

Not the shooter who didn't report the incident, but we're the fools! :crazy:

[Rex]

83. Um no, guns a drugs (booze)

THAT is the issue. The Repukes love to ram down our throats about how 'moral' we all should be. Then a pig-fucker like Cheney goes to far and now has to play CYA. Nope, he should resign right now since he has no fucking common sense.

[ReadTomPaine]

84. So who is the fool now that Cheney has admitted to drinking?

Going to revise your statement or give us a mea culpa?

[pitohui]

86. cheney just admitted to drinking

he just told fox news that he was drinking beer, *bzzzz* thanks for playing, next?

[crankybubba]

87. Now

" think DC is a lot of things - but I'd be fairly certain he's not consuming alcohol these days...his health wont allow for that.

So - SHUT UP with all alcohol accusations!!!

You make us look like farkin fools!"


since he has admitted drinking what say you now!!!! apology anyone??????

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

88. How now indeed. No return to the scene of the thread, for humble pie?

[Jacobin]

91. LOL

Oh my. must be embarrassing to have been soooo certain

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

90. I Think Jerry Would Be Disgraced With Your Tone and SHUT UP Attitude Above

Tis sad to see such a post with a Jerry Avatar looking on. Just totally ironic.

[Avalux]

92. Locking.

Cheney has admitted to drinking at least a beer at lunch before the accident.