Ward Churchill - Kill the Indian, Save the Man: on CSPAN2 Now!

[Viva_La_Revolution]

For anyone who cares. ;)

Kill the Indian, Save the Man: The Genocidal Impact of American Indian Residential Schools
Ward Churchill

Ward Churchill talks about the history of government-created American Indian residential schools and argues that these schools had genocidal aims. Professor Churchill says that while the term "genocide" is widely understood to refer only to the mass killing of one or another ethinic group, the UN Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide defines it in broader terms which apply to the policies of the U.S. government towards Native American children throughout much of the 20th Century. He describes the treatment that these children received and discusses the impact of these schools on Native American society today. The talk was hosted by City Lights Booksellers in San Francisco. Includes Q&A.

Ward Churchill is a professor of ethnic studies at the University of Colorado - Boulder. He is the author of many books, including "A Little Matter of Genocide," "Since Predator Came," and "Fantasies of the Master Race."

Publisher: City Lights 261 Columbus Avenue San Francisco, CA 94133

[bbinacan]

1. IMHO,

Churchill is a nut.

[Montauk6]

2. In what sense?

[bbinacan]

3. What he said about

9/11 victims.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

4. I agreed with him completely.

He said (paraphrased) that we, as Americans are guilty of the crimes of our government.

edit: bad spelling

[bbinacan]

5. he's looking for

his 15 mins.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

6. I was really hoping this would spark a conversation...

about what we (whites) have done to us (Native Americans).

I have the blood of both, and our history is bloody and tragic.

Unfortunately, I got a flame war about Churchill instead.

:shrug:

[tishaLA]

31. It wasn't him looking for 15 minutes

His essay sat around, largely ignored, for a couple years until David Horowitz, Bill O'Reilly, and the other right wingers interested in stifling free speech on campus discovered it and decided to make him academic public enemy #1.

I'm not a fan of his scholarship, but I see through the bullshit Horowitz et al were throwing around. In this case, Churchill's desire for fame wasn't the problem; Horowitz's desire for money was.

[K-W]

34. Conservative groups pushed that into the news, not Churchill.

He is just practicing his profession.

[niyad]

7. did you actually read what he said? if you did, do you still disagree

and think he is a nut?

[bbinacan]

15. yes and yes

and he does no service to the liberal point of view. sorry, just my take on his comments.:shrug:

[niyad]

11. this is the link to what he actually said (scroll down it is about 1/2 way

. . . . . . .

* In 1996 Madeleine Albright, then Ambassador to the UN and soon to be U.S. Secretary of State, did not dispute that 500,000 Iraqi children had died as a result of economic sanctions, but stated on national television that "we" had decided it was "worth the cost." I mourn the victims of the September 11 attacks, just as I mourn the deaths of those Iraqi children, the more than 3 million people killed in the war in Indochina, those who died in the U.S. invasions of Grenada, Panama and elsewhere in Central America, the victims of the transatlantic slave trade, and the indigenous peoples still subjected to genocidal policies. If we respond with callous disregard to the deaths of others, we can only expect equal callousness to American deaths.

* Finally, I have never characterized all the September 11 victims as "Nazis." What I said was that the "technocrats of empire" working in the World Trade Center were the equivalent of "little Eichmanns." Adolf Eichmann was not charged with direct killing but with ensuring the smooth running of the infrastructure that enabled the Nazi genocide. Similarly, German industrialists were legitimately targeted by the Allies.

* It is not disputed that the Pentagon was a military target, or that a CIA office was situated in the World Trade Center. Following the logic by which U.S. Defense Department spokespersons have consistently sought to justify target selection in places like Baghdad, this placement of an element of the American "command and control infrastructure" in an ostensibly civilian facility converted the Trade Center itself into a "legitimate" target. Again following U.S. military doctrine, as announced in briefing after briefing, those who did not work for the CIA but were nonetheless killed in the attack amounted to no more than "collateral damage." If the U.S. public is prepared to accept these "standards" when the are routinely applied to other people, they should be not be surprised when the same standards are applied to them.

* It should be emphasized that I applied the "little Eichmanns" characterization only to those described as "technicians." Thus, it was obviously not directed to the children, janitors, food service workers, firemen and random passers-by killed in the 9-1-1 attack. According to Pentagon logic, were simply part of the collateral damage. Ugly? Yes. Hurtful? Yes. And that's my point. It's no less ugly, painful or dehumanizing a description when applied to Iraqis, Palestinians, or anyone else. If we ourselves do not want to be treated in this fashion, we must refuse to allow others to be similarly devalued and dehumanized in our name.

. . . . . .

http://www.politicalgateway.com/news/read.html?id=2739

[GrumpyGreg]

8. A nut and a fake!

[Clara T]

9. THE SCHOOL DAYS OF AN INDIAN GIRL.

THE SCHOOL DAYS OF AN INDIAN GIRL.
Atlantic Monthly 85 (1900): 185-94.

THE LAND OF RED APPLES.
by Zitkala-Sa

 I sank deep into the corner of my seat, for I resented being watched. Directly in front of me, children who were no larger than I hung themselves upon the backs of their seats, with their bold white faces toward me. Sometimes they took their forefingers out of their mouths and pointed at my moccasined feet. Their mothers, instead of reproving such rude curiosity, looked closely at me, and attracted their children's further notice to my blanket. This embarrassed me, and kept me constantly on the verge of tears.

   I sat perfectly still, with my eyes downcast, daring only now and then to shoot long glances around me. Chancing to turn to the window at my side, I was quite breathless upon seeing one familiar object. It was the telegraph pole which strode by at short paces. Very near my mother's dwelling, along the edge of a road thickly bordered with wild sunflowers, some poles like these had been planted by white men. Often I had stopped, on my way down the road, to hold my ear against the pole, and, hearing its low moaning, I used to wonder what the paleface had done to hurt it. Now I sat watching for each pole that glided by to be the last one.

   In this way I had forgotten my uncomfortable surroundings, when I heard one of my comrades call out my name. I saw the missionary standing very near, tossing candies and gums into our midst. This amused us all, and we tried to see who could catch the most of the sweetmeats. The missionary's generous distribution of candies was impressed upon my memory by a disastrous result which followed. I had caught more than my share of candies and gums, and soon after our arrival at the school I had a chance to disgrace myself, which, I am ashamed to say, I did.

   Though we rode several days inside of the iron horse, I do not recall a single thing about our luncheons.

   It was night when we reached the school grounds. The lights from the windows of the large buildings fell upon some of the icicled trees that stood beneath them. We were led toward an open door, where the brightness of the lights within flooded out over the heads of the excited palefaces who blocked the way. My body trembled more from fear than from the snow I trod upon.

http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=ZitGirl.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=1&division=div1

THE CUTTING OF MY LONG HAIR.

   The first day in the land of apples was a bitter-cold one; for the snow still covered the ground, and the trees were bare. A large bell rang for breakfast, its loud metallic voice crashing through the belfry overhead and into our sensitive ears. The annoying clatter of shoes on bare floors gave us no peace. The constant clash of harsh noises, with an undercurrent of many voices murmuring an unknown tongue, made a bedlam within which I was securely tied. And though my spirit tore itself in struggling for its lost freedom, all was useless.

   A paleface woman, with white hair, came up after us. We were placed in a line of girls who were marching into the dining room. These were Indian girls, in stiff shoes and closely clinging dresses. The small girls wore sleeved aprons and shingled hair. As I walked noiselessly in my soft moccasins, I felt like sinking to the floor, for my blanket had been stripped from my shoulders. I looked hard at the Indian girls, who seemed not to care that they were even more immodestly dressed than I, in their tightly fitting clothes. While we marched in, the boys entered at an opposite door. I watched for the three young braves who came in our party. I spied them in the rear ranks, looking as uncomfortable as I felt.

   A small bell was tapped, and each of the pupils drew a chair from under the table. Supposing this act meant they were to be seated, I pulled out mine and at once slipped into it from one side. But when I turned my head, I saw that I was the only one seated, and all the rest at our table remained standing. Just as I began to rise, looking shyly around to see how chairs were to be used, a second bell was sounded. All were seated at last, and I had to crawl

<snip>

THE DEVIL.

   Among the legends the old warriors used to tell me were many stories of evil spirits. But I was taught to fear them no more than those who stalked about in material guise. I never knew there was an insolent chieftain among the bad spirits, who dared to array his forces against the Great Spirit, until I heard this white man's legend from a paleface woman.
   Out of a large book she showed me a picture of the white man's devil. I looked in horror upon the strong claws that grew out of his fur-covered fingers. His feet were like his hands. Trailing at his heels was a scaly tail tipped with a serpent's open jaws. His face was a patchwork: he had bearded cheeks, like some I had seen palefaces wear; his nose was an eagle's bill, and his sharp-pointed ears were pricked up like those of a sly fox. Above them a pair of cow's horns curved upward. I trembled with awe, and my heart throbbed in my throat, as I looked at the king of evil spirits. Then I heard the paleface woman say that this terrible creature roamed loose in the world, and that little girls who disobeyed school regulations were to be tortured by him.

http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=ZitGirl.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=all

[Viva_La_Revolution]

10. He's describing the treatise now...

an average of 130 acres was given to each Indian. So after the allotment the huge res. land that was given to the Tribes was given back to the Gov. for 'non-indian usages"

[seemslikeadream]

12. "Some People Push Back"

http://www.darknightpress.org/index.php?i=news&c=recent&view=9&long=1

"Some People Push Back" On the Justice of Roosting Chickens
written by Ward Churchill // 9-11-2001
This article appeared in Pockets of Resistance #11 September 2001

When queried by reporters concerning his views on the assassination of John F. Kennedy in November 1963, Malcolm X famously – and quite charitably, all things considered – replied that it was merely a case of "chickens coming home to roost."

On the morning of September 11, 2001, a few more chickens – along with some half-million dead Iraqi children – came home to roost in a very big way at the twin towers of New York's World Trade Center. Well, actually, a few of them seem to have nestled in at the Pentagon as well.

The Iraqi youngsters, all of them under 12, died as a predictable – in fact, widely predicted – result of the 1991 US "surgical" bombing of their country's water purification and sewage facilities, as well as other "infrastructural" targets upon which Iraq's civilian population depends for its very survival.

If the nature of the bombing were not already bad enough – and it should be noted that this sort of "aerial warfare" constitutes a Class I Crime Against humanity, entailing myriad gross violations of international law, as well as every conceivable standard of "civilized" behavior – the death toll has been steadily ratcheted up by US-imposed sanctions for a full decade now. Enforced all the while by a massive military presence and periodic bombing raids, the embargo has greatly impaired the victims' ability to import the nutrients, medicines and other materials necessary to saving the lives of even their toddlers.

All told, Iraq has a population of about 18 million. The 500,000 kids lost to date thus represent something on the order of 25 percent of their age group. Indisputably, the rest have suffered – are still suffering – a combination of physical debilitation and psychological trauma severe enough to prevent their ever fully recovering. In effect, an entire generation has been obliterated.

The reason for this holocaust was/is rather simple, and stated quite straightforwardly by President George Bush, the 41st "freedom-loving" father of the freedom-lover currently filling the Oval Office, George the 43rd: "The world must learn that what we say, goes," intoned George the Elder to the enthusiastic applause of freedom-loving Americans everywhere.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

13. If you don't deliver your child to the Gov. School

your rations are cut off.

We've already stolen your lifestyle, your way of supporting your family.
What are you going to do?

[Clara T]

14. You will be interested in post 9 above

"We Americans love our freedom; apparently though the freedom to revel in acts of mass murder ranks high upon our list of national pleasures. Nothing new and surprising here, folks: From Wounded Knee to Fallujah, genocide has always been our favorite blood sport. As proof of this, one simply needs to consider the impressive body count of Iraqis that we've rung-up in only two short years of our freedom fructifying crusade in their country. No need for a congressional hearing into this matter: We've rung up the high score without any steroid enhancement."
-Phil Rockstroh

[Viva_La_Revolution]

37. I'm reading it now...

had to wait till the show was over first.

Thanks Clara!

[seemslikeadream]

16. Churchill worked for years with the Amerian Indian Movement...

...so the Native American Holocaust is a big part of his perspective.
The CIA kills and tortures thousands of people around the world to get heads of state that will play economic ball with the companies who own and run the White House.

Our entire economy now feeds the Military Industrial Complex which requires the oil being died for and we are all complicit in some way with our dollars.

I think Churchill's point was that this makes us all part of Rumsfeld's army, something easy to reject as rediculous until you connect the dots of cause and effect.

Populations and their economies became weapons in WWII and are even more so today. The distinctions between civilian and combatant becomes muddled by the fact that Americans don't even know what their government does or why.

And this sad ignorance is the last innocence we have to hold on to.

Those of us who know what is going on feel even more complicit when we give our money to the weaponized economy. That's why progressives are trying to starve the beast by putting their dollars into local business that isn't destroying the planet.

...JohnOneillsMemory

[niyad]

17. the near-genocide of the first peoples of this land has always appalled me

Idon't see how there can be any kind of defense of it. there is a slightly truer view coming out with things like ken burns' series, the steven spielberg series, and others, but not nearly enough.

when people say, "proud to be an american", I ask, "of what are you proud? the genocide of the first peoples? slavery? the internment of japanese americans in camps? the fact that women are still not recognized as having equal rights?" usually shuts them up, at which point I recommend that they read howard zinn's "people's history of the united states".

For all his faults, ward churchill is articulate, passionate and committed. he spawned, by the way, a new line of t-shirts which read, "I'm part white, but I can't prove it"

[bbinacan]

21. Well, I'm

proud to be American. Why do you block the reading of your profile? Just curious.:shrug:

[niyad]

22. and exactly of WHAT are you proud?

[bbinacan]

30. And your profile?

[niyad]

38. typical sidestep for someone who cannot back up what they say-- I have no

idea what you are talking about.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

18. 50percent mortality in the Gov. run Residential facilities...

US and Canada.
:cry:

The worst Nazi concentration camps had a 60% morality rate. FYI

[BOHICA06]

19. Again .... it is People and the Government

they elect, thinking they know better!

It is precursor to the mantra of "It's for the Children" ... and it is anti freedom. Whether from the religious right or the meddlesome left, when they want to change your behavior - beware!!!

[Viva_La_Revolution]

20. Suicide rate for American Indian men - 500% of National Average

American Indian Teens.... 1400%

:(

alcoholic rate 1 in 2

:mad:

[EFerrari]

23. Thank you, Viva! I'm watching now.

:)

[Viva_La_Revolution]

24. Angry white man in the audience!

That was beautiful.

Slapped him down. can't remember exactly his quote... " If you can't imagine... you MUST be white"

:rofl:

[EFerrari]

28. "Stop fantasizing about what you're not and DO SOMETHING

about what you are."

:rofl:

[EFerrari]

25. He's talking about how the government determines your "race" --

how race is constructed. According to THOSE rules, Churchill extrapolates:

Different games with Blacks than with Indians. If you are 1/16th Black, you are Black; if you are 1/16 White, your Indian blood is stricken from the written record.

"Half those guys in the Klan are legally Black."

"There aren't to many people who have been here for more than 3 or 4 generations can actually be classified as legally White."

[EFerrari]

26. Good one! Primary techniques of Nazi Holocaust deniers:

They don't challenge the fact of what happened, they challenge the details. (This in ref to the number of children who died of starvation during our sanctions against Iraq vs how many have died in both wars.)

(Sound familiair? :eyes:)

[proud2BlibKansan]

27. Thanks watching now

He is good!

This is one of my favorite topics.

[EFerrari]

29. Mine, too. We can learn a lot about the Cabal listening to

Churchill.

[EFerrari]

32. He's going over the witch hunt. Did I get this straight?

He's on an academic misconduct charge because of three paragraphs in 1200pps?

[Viva_La_Revolution]

33. That's pretty much what he said...

the issue of heritage has been dropped, the issue of plagiarism has been dropped, now they can't form a committee because the right wing keeps attacking any outside academics, and they said screw it, we don't need this hassle.

:wow:

[EFerrari]

35. And that subsequent to the so called investigation, he's

been doing research, and the situation vis a vis the government conducting genocidal activity against the Indians (seeking to undermine the Sioux Confederacy) turns out to be even worse than he had believed.

The school is now backed into a corner. They can't convene proceedings because they can't have his work publicized. And so, their witch hunt has stalled.

Nice going, Ward. :)

[EFerrari]

36. Churchill irritates the hell out of me and I respect him more than

I can say.

If teachers can keep teaching it will be because of people like Ward Churchill and that huge chip on his shoulder. :)

[niyad]

39. maybe the little reichwing fundies will think a minute before they go on

the attack like this again--they have made themselves and the university look like total idiots. (of course, the whole football thing didn't help either)

[EFerrari]

40. Family values in action. n/t