i was in albertson's grocery store today. i was waiting to pay

[catmother]

when i noticed an employee behind me. i asked him if he was going to open up another register. he said "no i'm on my break and i have to pay for this apple". well i went nuts. he has to pay for a lousy apple. i hate albertson's and only go there when something i need is on sale. otherwise they are grossly overpriced. so of course, my big new york mouth kept going. i said loudly to the people in line that all this man had was an apple -- could he please be moved to the front of the line. also loudly, i said to him and the cashier "you don't have a union do you"? they just shook their heads. again i very loudly said "this state needs some damn unions". i'm in phoenix, arizona a "right to work state".

i just told my husband and he just shook his head and said "oh boy". he never brings me around any of his co-workers because he says "he never knows what's going to come out of my mouth". lol

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

1. I Don't Get It. Why Shouldn't He Pay For The Goddamn Apple.

I think I'm missing the cause for rage here.

[rug]

3. The same reason you didn't pay for the Bic in your pocket.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

4. I Did Pay For The Bic In My Pocket And You Still Didn't Answer The

question.

Nothing wrong whatsoever with him having to pay for the apple and until I hear any reason to convince me otherwise, see no reason for alarm within this story.

[rug]

20. It's neither alarm nor outrage.

First, he's using his limited break time to wait to pay for a lousy apple. This doesn't happen unless you're concerned about keeping your job.

Second, it's a lousy apple.

Third, how much do you think they're stealing from him each hour he works?

Fourth, scan the receipt for your Bic and post it.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

23. Seemed Like It To Me Unless I Misread.

And First, That's his choice and his problem.

Second, it's a lousy apple that has a price on it.

Third, I saw nothing remotely referencing that argument in the OP.

Fourth, What kind of obsessive freak keeps their bic receipts?

[rug]

31. Prioritize.

I'm sure his decision to wait on line was the result of careful deliberation and robust choice.

It's still a lousy apple.

Wake up.

A freak who values the price of an apple over the value of labor.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

51. He Could've Bought The Apple On His Weekly Shopping Trip And Brought

it with him like the friggin rest of us do. At least he had the ability to buy an apple on break if he wanted. Do you have the ability to buy an apple on break? I doubt you'd have time to run to the store and get one, so I look at it as that at least he had the convenience to buy that apple, if he chose, since he happens to work at a place that has a plethora of food to choose from right at his fingertips so that he can buy it even within a short break time. Course, He still coulda just brought the damn apple from home and enjoyed his whole break. I still see no problem here whatsoever.

[rug]

75. Yes, you're right of course

and it's still a lousy apple.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

79. On That Note, I Agree.

[rug]

86. Sorry, I forgot

:sarcasm:

[TallahasseeGrannie]

154. If I get an apple on my break

at the cafeteria I have to pay for it.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

172. Me Too :)

[catmother]

37. the price is not on the apple. it's per lb and had to be weighed.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

52. That's petty details. The apple still had a price. It wasn't free.

I didn't mean it had to have a label right on it. The point was that apples cost money, unless you come upon one on public land freshly fallen from a friggin tree.

[rug]

80. Tell me. Is his boss as judicious when it comes to the value of his labor?

Oh, I forgot. It's the apple guy's choice to accept that pay.

[catmother]

91. he's accepting that pay because he has no other choice.

[SPKrazy]

244. He Can't Get Another Job?

Or is he forced to take that job?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

104. Thread Was About Whether He Should Pay For An Apple, Not

about his wages. I don't know what his wages are, his duties are or argued either way against that topic since that wasn't the point.

The point was whether he shouldn't have to pay for the apple because he is an employee. Simple answer is yes, he should pay for the apple.

[rug]

115. This thread is about context, not notions about private property

not seen outside Dickens and the Reagan Library.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

119. Context Was "Guy Wanted An Apple. He Had To Pay For It. He Had To Wait In

Line"

Well la dee da. We all do.

[hfojvt]

190. not all of us

I was interviewing at a Kwik Trip and the manager snagged me a free fountain pop. At the bar where I worked, the employees also got free fountain pop. It would be a simple matter, sorta, to put some of the older fruit and produce, (which is probably going to be thrown out in two days) in the breakroom.

That said, I do not think it is a huge outrage that he had to pay for his apple. He probably gets an employee discount too - just not a five finger one.

[Sydnie]

232. They can't donate food like that to anyone

employees or agencies alike. Liability laws prohibit it. I can't tell you how many tons of food I have thrown in a dumpster in grocery stores because it was a discontinued product, not because there was something wrong with it either. Store used to donate those things to local food banks or agencies, but not anymore. If one person became ill, the could sue.

It discussed me every time I had to do it.

They used to have a "pig bucket" to throw the food in and they sold it to a local farm. Can't even do that anymore because well, the pig that was going to eat it might get ill from an ingredient in the food.

I had to get out of the business. Too much waste.

[SPKrazy]

246. If your employer gives you free shit, then that is their deal

paying for your food is part of life isn't it?

[kevinbgoode]

267. There's a bit more context than that. . .

if this was a break. .. well, say, a 15-minute one, he has just lost a good chunk of it waiting in a long checkout line just to buy an apple. There should be some other way for employees to get a food product for themselves over break without requiring them to stand in line with customers.

The other point is that the store apparently can't open another lane when one becomes crowded - a definite irritant to me.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

278. There Is A Way.

It's called buying your friggin apples during your weekly shopping trip like the rest of us friggin do, and bringing them to work.

Unless his boss said "time for your break, you better go buy an apple if you know what's good for you", then it was his choice to use his friggin break that way.

I still don't believe I have to debate this clear cut there's nothing wrong here what the hell could there be to argue against issue so much tonight. Must be a full moon or something.

[rug]

290. Lol.

There's a line in "One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich" in which Ivan, freezing, has to shuffle over to the guardhouse in the gulag to get permission for something or other.

While he's waiting in the freezing cold for the guard in his heated guardhouse to acknowledge him, he thinks "A man who's warm cannot understand a man who's cold."

You're right. There's nothing to debate. You either get it or you don't.

Either way, I like your style.

[mondo joe]

285. When I run into Starbucks on my 15 minute break and have to stand in

line, am I being victimized in some way?

If the guy left the store, went to Burger King and had to wait in line would that be a problem?

Hell, the guy has the advantage on most people spending their break on line - he's already there so he doesn't lose travel time as well.

Personally, if I were just minding my business buying an apple I'd be pretty fucking pissed at some stranger making a scene with me as her prop.

[Protagoras]

300. Thank you for the common sense

cuz apparently it isn't that common anymore.

[hfojvt]

185. according to what I heard graduate school in 1989

from a progressive economics professor, they treat their employees very well. Apparently that does not include free snacks at break time though. It may no longer be true that it is a good place to work, but it is wrong to just assume otherwise simply because they do not get free stuff.

[SPKrazy]

243. WTF? What's your argument

I've read your posts and I don't understand?

I pay for my food unless someone buys it for me.

I don't pay for my pens at work because they are work tools for me.

I pay for my pens at home, most of them unless they are from reps who give them to me.

I pay for everything unless it is bought for me or given to me.

Don't you?

[rug]

284. And do you pay for personal calls at work?

And pay back the time you spent on those calls?

Do you?

[mondo joe]

289. My employer is fine with occassional personal calls.

That's part of our agreement about working conditions.

You know -- those are the terms I agreed to when I chose to accept the job.

[rug]

298. Oh, you specifically discussed personal phone calls in your interview?

And specified those terms when forging your contract?

So, when does Occasional become theft? Is that specified in your terms?

One call beyond your agreement would buty a bushel of apples.

[mondo joe]

301. No - I agreed to the employers policies. I could have asked about

that one in particular if I cared about it, but I didn't. The things I did care about, I did ask about.

I didn't expect ANY personal calls to be okay, so since they are it's a nice perk.

"Occassional" in these terms is at the disretion of the supervisor -- again, a policy I agreed to when I chose to accept the job.

[SPKrazy]

303. One call would buy a bushel of apples

where do you get that?

a local call would be 50 cents from a pay phone

[rug]

305. Add the labor stolen and the use of equipment, bub.

[SPKrazy]

309. Wow, you are on a roll!

stolen labor, use of equipment.

I'll tell you what

my employer logs EVERY call made.

If they don't like calls I make, they can damned well FIRE my ass.

So, I take their policies seriously.

But suppose I did, I work on a salary, and therefore don't get overtime.

So there are times when my labor exceeds the constraints of an 8 hour day.

Is my employer stealing from me?

I don't look at it that way.

I do what has to be done because I am a professional.

I pay for my food unless it is paid for by someone else.

If they ban phone calls, I won't have the tools to do my job, since I use the phone a lot in my job.

[mondo joe]

310. It's not stolen if it's used with consent, bub.

And like with apples, when it's used on someone else's dime without consent it is theft.

[SPKrazy]

302. I Have Break Time

And am allowed to make personal calls per my employer's policy

and I do

do you?

And if my employer gave me apples, I might or might not eat them.

But they don't.

They sell them to me.

Enough with the strawman arguments

This thread is crazy

[SPKrazy]

239. So?

If I want an apple, or anything to eat on my job I pay for it or bring it in.

[Matariki]

200. WOW. Are you doing Performance Art?

[aclog]

6. Don't put pens in your pocket

seriously

[rinsd]

5. I think it was just the lead in for the story (nt)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

10. Well What The Heck Is The Point Of The Story? LOL

I see stuff about mouthing off in a store but no context as to why there should've been anger? That's what I'm perplexed about.

[catmother]

19. i'm angry because i'm tired of seeing my fellow man fucked

over.

[SPKrazy]

247. How were they fucked over? n/t

[stepnw1f]

36. You Say So... Cuz You Drank the "Me, Myself, and I", Koolaid

and have accepted selfishness and greed...

It's a fuckin apple the store will probably throw away.

[catmother]

42. exactly. greed on the part of the corporation.

[stepnw1f]

53. Goddamn Corporate Bootlickers

"Well they don't have to..."

But they should, since they are sucking our country dry. Fuck... they are lucky we don't burn the fuckin places down. People have had ENOUGH!!!

Did you see the Budget these Neo-nut jobs are passing?! Back again to that "Apple".

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

54. He is not entitled to that apple because he works there, period.

And you could probably forge better arguments without the childish rush to judgement far off the mark ignorant name calling. Just sayin. :hi:

[catmother]

63. there was no ignorant name calling.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

71. No, Not From You There Wasn't.

[stepnw1f]

64. You Could Probably Try Living Outside That Corporate "Square"

you seem to be enslaved to.

:applause:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

76. You really are having a hard time responding with reason and justification

aren't you. Is that why instead of actually using reasoning and intellect to forge a persuasive argument as to why I should see things your way you are instead resorting to useless rhetoric and undeserved labeling?

I hope in response you could actually address the issues a bit. Thanks! :hi:

[0007]

93. What the fuck is name calling to you? Show me where the poster

called you a name. YOU my friend are over the top and need to have a cigarette or two.

Ablertson's is a over priced grocery store that pays low wages. $6.19 an hour here in Midland. The apple should at least be a perk. How many apples will they throw away at the end of the day?

Chill out!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

107. Hey There! I'm Chilled Just Fine Thanks, How You Doin?

:hi:

[Common Sense Party]

178. How much should Albertson's be paying in Midland?

What should a checker be paid? A stocker? A kid mopping floors?

Just help me put this in context.

[0007]

212. I just quoted a checker wage! A friend works there.

I do not know the wages of all workers. Check with the junior chamber of commerce or write Albertosn.

[SPKrazy]

249. That's a ridiculous argument

I suppose they won't sell any of their apples

so all employees there should get an apple

or for that matter, take whatever else you want

[liberalitch]

56. You steal lighters?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

59. You Replied To The Wrong Post I Think :)

[fujiyama]

61. Because it's one fuckin apple

It's not going to hurt their inventory in any way for God's sake.

But that said, even if the employer is really cheap and wants the employee to pay for something so small, they should allow them to take it and pay for it after their shift is over.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

68. Why? Can't He Buy It On Off Hours Like Every Single One Of Us Have To?

I'm trying to grasp the whole concept in this thread as to why I should be upset about something this store did, but so far I cannot find any argument that holds any water against this company.

If I wanted an apple and drove to a convenience store during my break, I'd have to pay for it AND wait in line. Why the hell should it be any different for him? He's in a store, he wants an apple, he has to buy it, and has to wait in line to do so. It's called THE WAY BUYING THINGS WORKS.

[fujiyama]

88. On second thought

I have to agree. When you think a little more about it, I don't know where it would stop...As someone else said, what about free pop and chips...

Plus most retail stores have a vending machine in the break room. Sure they don't have fresh fruit, but most also have refrigerators or places to keep a bag...

[StClone]

87. As an employee of a large chain (not salaried)

You WASTE your break checking out. They used to offer free fruits and low cost drinks. Gone. They discourage home-bring-alongs for fear that it was stolen. They encourage you to buy in-store on break and place your receipt on purchase until consumed. We get no discounts except on a greasy deli chicken dinner and over-priced salad bar. They throw out thousands $ worth of products, fruits and veggies per day that are out-of-date but total edible for fear of law suits.

[SPKrazy]

236. No Shit?

I don't get the rage either

Is she saying that if he were in a Union shop he'd get a free apple?

[aclog]

2. have some sympathy for your fellow man

the guy works for next to nothing and deserves a goddamn break just as much as you do

Excuse the fuck outta me if I don't prioritize your convenience over eveything else for my fucking $8.75/hr

EDIT: sorry, that came out too angry. I just think you are compartmentalizing ("right to work asshole") and displaying a great lack of compassion

[snowbear]

7. Geez... I read it differently.. Wasn't she sticking up for him?

Oh boy..

I was thinking that catmom was mad at the circumstances that they put their employee in?

Right? :shrug:
Wrong? :shrug:

Oy.. confused again.

[aclog]

8. oh fuck me

I'm just pissed off today sorry

[oscar111]

12. "Eat lunch at your desk as you WORK".. what you think of such poicy?

On a related issue, what are your opinins on this nefarious practice/?

Bernie Williams, famous talk host, does this policy on his employees.

I think it is a horrible policy/.

[aclog]

17. Dunno

never worked a 9 to 5 in my life and never plan to so I'm not the one to ask. I can guaran-goddamn-tee you I wouldn't stand for that shit though

[pretzel4gore]

9. on his break, he had to wait in line....

that's an awful way to spend a break

[catmother]

15. that was one of the reasons i opened my mouth. his whole break

could have been spent on that lousy express line. and i can't see why an employee can't have a free apple. if it were my store, i would let him have it. and maybe he was afraid to ask if he could go ahead of the line for fear of losing his lousy job.

[Beaverhausen]

If I go get coffee on my break I have to stand in line

what is the big deal? It's a "break."

I am really missing something here. :shrug:

[pretzel4gore]

221. well, a coffee a day don't keep doctor away...

that's an apple's job! :)

[mondo joe]

306. You've just been brainwashed by Starbucks, you corporate lackey!

Otherwise you'd know everyone should be entitled to take anything they want. :eyes:

[catmother]

11. it's a lousy apple. the guy probably isn't making very much. in

fact he was an older man -- with all the profits they make they can't give a hard working employee a damn apple.

[alcibiades_mystery]

21. Hell, when I worked at a supermarket

when I was a kid, we just stole lunch. And beer. We'd hang out in the produce freezer drinking Heinekins and eating hot dogs that we cooked up on the plastic melting machine (for wrapping produce). Ah, those were the days... ;-)

I hear McDonald's doesn't charge for employee food. Then again, shrinkage is a huge issue in supermarkets, although less so in the produce department (this is where they make their big profit).

But you're confusing your issues. The major problem here shouldn't be the pay for the apple but the line itself.

[BushOut06]

204. McDonalds does charge employees - but they get a discount

When I worked for McDonalds years ago, we initially got one free meal a day. But then people started abusing that, so they started charging us for meals, but at a reduced price.

[A Simple Game]

102. Could he have two apples?

Could he have a 5 pound bag? Maybe fruit isn't his style, could he instead have a sirloin to cook in the back room? A pint of Ben and Jerry's?

Where would you draw the line?

Sometimes all or nothing is the simplest solution.

[Leopolds Ghost]

169. he should get FOUR free apples. Five is RIGHT OUT

And they did feast on the apples, and cabbages, and horseradish, and sirloin, and ice cream, and mangoes in syrup...

And the LORD said unto them, thou hast sinned and eaten of the fruit of the Knowledge of Employer and Employee Relations. Take this thy Holy Hand Grenade, that fell off the back of the truck in Antioch...

"well hurry it up wil you?"

[leftstreet]

269. Will you marry me?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Moochy]

331. I dub this thread the Apple War!

And here I thought fighting about the DLC was fun! :evilgrin:

[eggman67]

347. Yeah, it's one to tell the grandkids someday

Sonny, lemme tell ya 'bout the Apple War of '06...

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Angry Girl]

13. I'm in AZ too and Albertsons is AWFUL

They have the WORST prices. We're always stunned that people actualy shop there, when it's so much more expensive than any other grocer.

What do you think of the new policy in a lot of stupormarkets where the cashiers now have to hawk merchandise on display at the checkout?

"Would you be interested in some Mercurized Choco-Lumps or Diet Poisonade?"

My husband ask each caashier who says this whether they get a commission for items sold and they all say no, at which point we loudly say it's terrible they're being treated so unfairly, and every single cashier has agreed with us! Except, I think it was Walgreen's, where they actually get a commission.

[catmother]

25. they do that in albertsons. try to sell you some kinda special.

like i said i'm not an albertson's shopper unless it's a sale. fortunately i don't have to work so i can shop around to see who has the best sales.

i think people shop there because they put them close to freeways. people on the way home from work are tired and will stop at the closest place even if they have to pay more.

i don't like walgreens either. another rip off -- unless somethings on sale and then many times they don't have the sale item.

[Sydnie]

40. the store is probably getting paid by the manufacturer

to have the cashiers "hawk" an item. Or, they might have been told if they move x number of units they will get a better price on the lot. You have to understand how grocery stores (probably any store, but I know grocery stores so ...) work and just how they make their money. They don't make their money on the products that you buy as there is often not much mark-up on the price they charge you from what they are charged. They make their money selling the shelf space and placement of those products to the manufacturers.

Here's an example. Eye level shelves are worth more than those above and below eye level. One facing of any product could cost the manufacturer, say $50,000 (more or less depending on the store and the product, just a hypothetical number for our exercise here too)each per store location per x amount of time. Most stores only agree to carry a new product for a period of three months at a time. Say you have a new product and you want to have it on the shelf, for three months at eye level. You might have to pay $100,000 or more per store for the store to stock that item. If it sells, good, then you renew the agreement for either the same money for the same placement or more if you want a more coveted shelf position.

So, if they are "hawking" a product, they have been paid to do so. Not a lot different from the manufacturer hiring a demo company to come into that store and give out samples of the product in an attempt to sell enough to make the shelf placement charge worthwhile.

It's a rat race business. Consumer prices aren't set by the store. They are set by the manufacturers.

Having said that, once an employee sees it is ok to take an apple, the next thing they take is a roast. It adds up. I've seen it with my own eyes. Better to stay on equal footing and make the employees pay for what they want too.

[Angry Girl]

I understand

And I know about loss leaders and all that stuff and that's fine, that's the stupormarket game. I also don't have a problem with the guy paying for something he bought. I'm just annoyed at the fact that if you're a salesman, you should get a commission and these poor slobs don't, simply because they've been beaten into submission by an unfeeling corporation because they can't afford to lose their pathetic jobs else their kids will go hungry.

(my admittedly biased but perceptive interpretation) :-)

[Ikonoklast]

14. I worked in a unionized grocery store

and was a member of the AMC&BW and the UFCW for over 25 years.

If I took an apple and didn't pay for it, I would have been terminated immediately. That is called "stealing", and is frowned upon by the employer. The Union would have said, tough luck, you should have paid for it, we will grieve it but you will lose your job.

They hated having to stick up for thieves. They didn't like them either.

There ain't no free lunch. Someone pays.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

33. Very Rationally And Intellectually Put.

[SlipperySlope]

43. GOOD POST ABOVE - n/t

[catmother]

49. well i guess that's the policy of the store, but personally i think

it sucks.

[Sydnie]

77. then buy a bag of apples, tape the reciept to the bag and

have an employee put it in the break room. Problem solved for all concerned. :hi:

[rug]

89. What kind of obsessive freak keeps their apple receipts?

[Sydnie]

94. If you work in a store like that and you are consuming a product

while in the store at work, you had better be able to produce either a receipt or a manager's write off slip. Otherwise, it's a fast trip to your locker and the door for you.

I have had many receipts taped to things when I was in a store and I didn't work for the store but rather for a manufacturer. People have been known to say that they paid for something that they didn't. Without that piece of paper, you are toast!

[rug]

113. Do you think he should have been fired if he didn't pay for the apple?

And if he were, would you support his fight to regain his livelihood?

[Beaverhausen]

118. Would you be fired if you stole something from where you work?

I think most people would. I would.

[rug]

Not for an apple.

And I recall you hated the NYC transit strike too.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

124. Someone At My Work Was Fired For Stealing A Roll Of Toilet Paper.

They should've been.

Oh, he was union too. They agreed.

[rug]

135. You support firing workers for taking an apple or a roll of toilet paper.

Bravo. My property rights are secure.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

139. It Is Called S-T-E-A-L-I-N-G.

If you are caught stealing work property, you should be fired, duh!

Ever heard of THE LAW? Ya know, when you break it, umm, ya kinda get in trouble. (unless you're bush and his cohorts, I know I know)

[rug]

147. It Is Called S-T-U-P-I-D-I-T-Y.

Elevating taking an apple to theft, elevating that to firing people, elevating that to jailing them.

But it's the property rights that count, right?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

149. Elevating Taking The Property Of Others To Theft? ROFL ROFL

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Umm, that's what you'd call it isn't it? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Here, Let me help you out.

theft

n : the act of taking something from someone unlawfully;


If that doesn't work, how bout this:

stealing

n 1: the act of taking something from someone unlawfully;


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[rug]

158. How's this

Fire and jail a worker for taking an apple.

Roll around that.

[mondo joe]

256. How many apples does it take to equal theft?

Please be precise.

[rug]

279. Zero.

[mondo joe]

287. Please stop evading the question. If "an apple" is not theft, how many

would he have to take before it becomes theft?

[Common Sense Party]

183. What if it were a bag of Doritos, instead of an apple?

Should he be able to grab a bag of Doritos, and a bottle of Dew to wash it down?

The store can easily write that off. Would that be stealing?

[rug]

233. It was an apple.

[mondo joe]

258. An apple? Or an apple a day? Or an apple whenever he likes one?

Please be precise. How many free apples does employment gain a person?

[Rabrrrrrr]

308. So where you do draw this oh-so-ignorant line of stealing/stupidity?

If he steals one apple, that's okay.

What if he steals two? Or three? At what point should be he fired?

Not until he hauls out a pallet? Or at four apples?

Should he grab a t-bone on the way home? maybe add some toilet paper, a roll of paper towels, two bananas, a 1/4 pound of green beans and maybe a can of mushroom soup?

What if he worked at a car dealership? How much theft is acceptable there? One car a day? One a month? One a year?

How about your postal worker - should they get a sheet of stamps every day? I mean, for fuck's sake, it's only a couple dollars, right?


your continuing argument in this thread, and all its subthreads, is one of the most ridiculously unrealistic and ignorant things I've read here in a long time.

Actually in support of stealing - unbelievable.

I worked in a grocery store for three years, and we had to pay for everything we ate - as we should have been expected to - and would have been fired for stealing anything; we also had to wait in line to buy stuff, just like the customers, because we, as service people, are not better than the customers and do not have a right to barge in front of them in line.

I sure as hell wouldn't want an employee like you working for me.

[mondo joe]

314. I don't think Rug wants to answer that question. I asked for specifics

time and time again.

[Rabrrrrrr]

319. yes, he/she is dodging it everywhere, I see

but perhaps he/she will eventually realize that people are unsatisfied, and will offer an answer.

Though I have a feeling the answer will be "in a truly communist perfect society, people would work together for the common good and all food would be free and no on would have to work!" or some fuckign inane idealistic college-freshman-level nincompoopery.

[mondo joe]

343. I sort of suspect Rug doesn't believe it's possible for an employee to

steal from an employer, no matter what they take.

[rug]

346. Keep reading Adam Smith.

[Rabrrrrrr]

362. Keep reading Euclid.

:wtf:

Why don't you just answer the fucking question?

[rug]

341. You actually think this thread is about stealing?

At the risk of exposing you to ridiculous reality, the thread is about how workers are treated.

If you think having a man in his 50s wait on line during a break to buy an apple during a too short break in the supermarket where he works for too little money is fine, and subordinate to the issue of whether he should be fired should he just pick up the damn apple and eat it, your problem is far greater than ignorance.

And I doubt you could afford to hirrrrrre me.

[Rabrrrrrr]

360. I never said it was about stealing.

You say this thread is about how workers are treated - and part of that issue is whether they should be allowed to steal whatever they want to eat.

I say no, they shouldn't be allowed to steal all they want.

And I - and many others - are still waiting for you to answer the question: where do you draw the line between acceptable theft and unacceptable theft? Two apples? Four apples? Six apples? 20 apples and a couple bottles of wine?

Where does the bullshit end?

Hell, why even expect people to live under the oppression of laws at all? if you think having a man in his 50s, who's been paying income tax since he was sixteen, needs to fill out another income tax form and pay taxes for yet another year is fine, and subordinate to the issue of whether he should be fined should he just decide that he's paid enough, your problem is far greater than ignorance.

Do you see the stupidity of such a statement?

You have yet to explain WHY an employee should not be expected to stand in line to pay for his food, nor to explain WHY you feel that an employee should not have to pay for his snack.

Could you, please, just try to answer that question? Where do you draw the line between "the theft that a corporation should just suck up because they don't treat their employees as well as they should" and "the theft that a corporation can finally say is enough and terminate the thieving SOB"?

[mondo joe]

363. How is his standing in line on his break different than anyone else

standing in line on their break in a store they don't work in?

[catmother]

369. it was one apple. no matter where he was standing in line i would

hope that the people in front would say "oh sir, you just have 1 item, you can go ahead of me".

[mondo joe]

370. I've stood in the express line with 1 item.

It is the express line after all, so no one has much. I don't see the big deal.

[Leopolds Ghost]

146. How the Hell do you "Steal" a Roll of Toilet Paper anyway?

He could've had Montezuma's Revenge and just used it all up.

Most businesses leave spare rolls in their bathroom so folks don't get stuck. He could have just accidentally dropped one in the toilet. I suppose OPERATIONMINDCRIME would consider that a crime too, LOL

[catmother]

166. oh i love that. makes me think of my mom who suffers from

colitis. i'm sure she has used more than a roll in her workplace.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

174. I Suppose You Assume Too Much.

He put 6 rolls in his duffel bag. Security checked his bag on the way out after seeing him on camera.

Methinks you judge too quickly. He stole from work. He was fired. Guess what, that's the way the world works bub.

[Beaverhausen]

134. That's right - that strike really pissed me off

I live in Los Angeles, when was this strike? How long did it go on?

Because I know it really really effected my commute out here on the LA freeways... :crazy:

[catmother]

168. i didn't post anything about a strike in my OP. nt

[catmother]

164. well you've got a good memory. yes i did hate the transit

strikes. i couldn't get to work and if i didn't work i didn't get paid.

[BushOut06]

193. So where do you draw the line?

Is it okay to take a candy bar without paying for it? How about a pint of ice cream? Maybe they should be allowed to take a sirloin steak from the meat department? And do you allow just this one employee to take food without paying for it, or do you allow any employee to take whatever he wants without paying?

I'm sorry, but the employer is there to run a business, not a charity. Seriously, where do you draw the line?

[rug]

237. Suppose they lowered his pay 25cents an hour. Where do you draw the line?

Or make him pay $25.00 a week more for his health insurance. Is that OK?

Theft is a two way street.

[BushOut06]

254. Oh come on now

You could use that logic to justify all sorts of actions. Why stop at mere apples? Should employees be allowed to steal DVDs or CDs? Maybe they should be allowed to steal jeans or jackets. Why shouldn't I be allowed to take a large screen HDTV? It's not my fault I don't make enough to ever be able to afford one on my own, why should the rich be the only ones to enjoy it? Shit, the company makes billions of dollars, surely they can afford it.

[rug]

275. You evaded the question.

Equating an apple to a HDTV is not responsive.

What is missing from this nineteenth century assertion of property rights is that this large employer, by virtue of its size and power, is systematically stealing from each worker every hour through low wages. Period.

That's what the problem is, not taking an apple.

Yes, taking the apple is theft. Big fucking deal.

Now, is the store itself stealing from its workers?

[BushOut06]

286. Actually you're the one who evaded the question

You answered my question "where do you draw the line" with a question of your own, without ever answering mine. Do you know what that particular store pays that particular employee? Are you merely assuming that this kid is a new employee making minimum wage? Actually the OP didn't even say anything about the employee himself, just that he was standing in line to buy an apple. You have no idea what this employee (might not have even been a kid) is making, how long he's been with the company. You're making broad sweeping generalizations in your response.

Also, I'm not defending the system, I wish people made more than they did, and could afford adequate health care - actually I believe health care should be universally acceptable. I believe that people do have a right to a decent living wage. But that still doesn't mean it's alright to steal just because you think you're not earning what you should. We're not talking about crimes of necessity - unless you believe that employee was on the verge of starvation. So again, where do you draw the line? I agree that the HDTV is an extreme example, but it does use the same logic.

[mondo joe]

288. How is paying someone a wage they agree to for work they agree to

"theft"?

[mondo joe]

265. Not giving you anything you want isn't "theft". n/t

[rug]

271. It's an apple.

[mondo joe]

274. An apple? Or an apple a day? Or an apple whenever he likes one?

Please be specific.

[Sydnie]

121. I could have lost my job for an apple without a receipt, why should

there be any difference between the people that shop there (that shouldn't steal apples) and the ones that work there?

If he takes it with out paying or the permission of the manager, then yes, he should lose his job. No, I couldn't fight for him to get his job back because I couldn't be sure that one apple was all that he felt "entitled" to.

I can tell you never worked in a grocery store. I know of times that when the delivery trucks were being emptied on the night shift that this is how it worked -- one case of canned peas in the store, one in a workers car ... one case of disposable cameras in the store, one case in another employees car. Heck, there was a lady here running an "underground" store from her living room with the things that the grocery crew passed out the loading dock doors at night! I know people that shopped in her living room for a time... until the word got out. Now she cooks for many in a state facility. :shrug:

[rug]

141. I have worked for two different supermarket chains.

And I see you equate one apple with a boosting ring. I must now reconsider your previous posts with more respect.

[Sydnie]

150. the value doesn't matter - stealing is stealing

I used to know a guy that worked in the same side of the industry that I did. He did something one day that made the store suspicious. They let it ride until he came back into the store several weeks later. He always had a breifcase with him, which was unusual for the type of calls we made. This time, they wanted to look through his breifcase before he left the store. The guy had about $200.00 worth of expensive meat cuts and some HBA items in it. Imagine, if he made say 5 calls like that a day to various stores? That would have been quite a perk.

I won't even mention the lady that tried to steal a turkey by strapping it to her waist and letting it hang between her legs as she left the store.

It starts with one apple, where does it stop?

[rug]

160. Yeah, lock up those apple stealers before society falls apart.

BTW, the value of the object is precisely what the law uses to grade crime and punishment.

It's also how people use common sense.

[Sydnie]

167. I wasn't saying they should be locked up for an apple

although he could be if the store manager wanted to spend the time on the paper work. Most wouldn't. They would just remove them so their bottom line wouldn't suffer.

We aren't talking about someone with no money in their pocket to purchase food. We are talking about purchasing an apple from a place that your work. If he were there and was short of money and I had it, I would make up the difference. I have done it a gazillion times for strangers and coworkers alike.

With your logic, we should just give blivet** a pass on everything he does too. Forget Abramoff, no real harm there either.

It starts with one thing and could lead anywhere.

The law might determine what charge is brought by what is "liberated", but it's still a crime.

[rug]

173. Abramoff stole apples too? The scumbag!

[Sydnie]

179. Well, you are trying to qualify it as being a "little bit pregnant"

you either are or you aren't. Crime is crime.

You don't shit where you eat.

[Leopolds Ghost]

153. I worked for a "progressive" local co-op, was fired for

for a $40 discrepancy in the till out of $2,000 on THANKSGIVING

And they didn't take it out of my salary!

Magical thinking on the part of stupid and greedy f*cks.

The manager, of course, promptly hired 2 additional people from his hometown in

They were also lobbying the city to tear down some nearby affordable housing, too, so they could expand their parking lot.

Now, whenever I see the word "homeopathic" I reach for my revolver.

[rug]

162. Make sure you pay for the bullets.

[catmother]

96. not everyone eats apples. lol

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

108. Ok You Got An LOL Out Of Me With That One.

I enjoyed that reply. :)

[Sydnie]

111. Well, apples today, oranges tomorrow then

become a one woman crusader against scurvy. They'll love you for it! :rofl:

[rug]

240. I think you need a truckload of limes.

[Leopolds Ghost]

120. "There ain't no free lunch. Someone pays." Apparently you forget there WAS

There used to BE a free lunch for employees of certain stores, paid for by the EMPLOYER.

It wasn't a union / non-union thing, either -- just an issue of GREED / LESS GREED.

:eyes:

Imagine what the "realists" of this age would say if the 8-hour day hadn't been invented till now. Oh wait, I forgot -- most of the upper middle class professionals I've met have nothing but disdain for unions and the 8-hour day -- they don't get it, why should YOU? And they are all VERY liberal.

[Ikonoklast]

155. I joined a Union at age 17. I was a shop steward, and

I walked picket lines. I was on the Union negotiating committee, and sat through many arbitration hearings involving members that were accused of stealing, among other things. Many times it was greed on the employees part; they felt entitled to a free lunch.

What if someone just starts taking whatever they want home from your place of business or employment; how long do you think that business will survive? They are stealing not only from the employer, but also from their fellow employees.

I also realize that if my employer at the time didn't make a profit, I, and many other people, had NO JOB. Pilferage and theft is a very serious problem in a retail food environment, and directly affects the employers' bottom line, and how much we as employees could share in the profits through negotiated contracts.

If you think that for one minute that I do not understand the history of Labor in this country you are sadly mistaken. I earned a good living through the strength of collective bargaining, and didn't need a free lunch. Sure as hell never stole one from somebody, either.

[Leopolds Ghost]

159. People buy food every day. It makes absolutely no freaking sense why

In a FOOD store, employees should not have the ability to eat lunch on a DISCOUNT.

You don't want them to simply steal stuff -- fine. But saying they should "pay for it on their break like everyone else" -- out of money that is coming DIRECTLY FROM THEIR EMPLOYER -- is magical thinking.

And I say that as someone who worked at a grocery store and always paid for snacks -- full price at shitty prices in a co-op that only pretended to give members and employees discounts.

I still got fired for a $40 till shortfall they could have taken out of my $800 salary. After all, there are THIEVES out there and you can't be too careful, right? Terrorists too! What is America coming to? I suspect that greedy, fear-based mentality has always been with us.

Then again, maybe I value labor more than other people on this thread.

Most Americans worship money and are GLAD not to recieve benefits in lieu of cash because they don't want to be "told how to spend" their God-given mammon. I hear this all the time from my LIBERAL friends. I bet you're impressed with that "we're giving all truck buyers employee discounts" phenomenon. It is a backhanded way of eliminating the employee discount without the union complaining.

[ronnykmarshall]

125. FREEPER!!!!

:sarcasm:

[pinniped]

16. I believe Albertsons' employees are members of the UFCW.

United Food and Commercial Workers.

[slor]

18. Catmom hates freedom ! n/t

[catmother]

29. what the hell does that mean? i hate freedom?

[slor]

78. Sarcasm, Dear Lady...

I am quoting the chimp.

[catmother]

98. thank you for clearing that up.

[SlipperySlope]

22. You should have quoted Good Will Hunting

"How do you like them apples?"

[seabeyond]

24. what a rant. my hubby owns a computer store. should employees

get one for free???? he should pay for his apple. he should be given a livable wage.

[catmother]

28. there's a big difference between a computer and an apple. a

lousy apple should be a fringe benefit.

[seabeyond]

32. no it shouldnt and there are legitimate reasons. theft is a huge

problem with most all business. jsut a fact. as much as we would like to trust all, as much as we may like to believe it doesnt happen often, it does. there has got to be a consistant rule for the employee, as much for them as for the business.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

38. I'm Not Sure I Understand This Tone Of Entitlement.

It doesn't matter where you work or what product they sell, it doesn't entitle an employee to it merely on the basis he works there.

[stepnw1f]

44. Tone of Entitlement?

WTF? Oh O-K....

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

57. I thought it was fairly self explanatory,

no? :shrug:

[stepnw1f]

74. No... You Missed the Goddamn Point of the OP Altogether

and your wise ass remarks against what the person was trying to say is pretty obvious. Kindness is an entitlement. Your objection to kindness is self-explanatory. I suppose Robber Barons are right up your alley too. Hell.. it was legal, right?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

84. Awwwww, how cute. More attacking labels from you.

I'm still awaiting a response with substance.

I'm one of the most kind people I know, but that doesn't mean I think stores are entitled to give their employees free merchandise. I find that logic simply foolhearted.

If I want an apple I gotta pay for it bub. He's no damn different. If the entire argument of this thread is that he shouldn't have to pay for merchandise because he works there, well on it's face that it frankly illogical.

[stepnw1f]

101. You Don't Deserve Substance When You Offer None Yourself

So cram that in your frail ego... it's imploding right now.

;)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

110. Actually I think I've Done A Fairly Thorough Job Of Explaining My Position

Thank you. :hi:

[rug]

97. GOOD POST ABOVE N/T.

[ronnykmarshall]

117. Hell I work for a bank ..

why can't I take free money?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

122. Well It Seems That Some In This Thread Would Say You Should!

I'm kinda frightened that I somehow got so involved in the thick of battle within a thread that on its face makes almost no sense. One of these days I've got to learn to control that impulse disorder I have that makes it so hard for me to walk away from worthless conversations without having the last word! LOL

I know, it's my tragic flaw.... ....sighhhhh

[Beaverhausen]

123. You can only take "ones"...and only on your break.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

126. And You Can't Cut In Line Either

:rofl:

[seabeyond]

163. bah hahaha. hey, you all as surprised as i am that people are ok

with theft. as if someone is allowed to steal something cause it doesnt cost that much. i am surprised. shaking head in wow here

you are funny

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

176. This Thread Is Somethin Ain't It? LOL

[seabeyond]

180. ya....... maybe we all should go to an ethics class too n/t

[Beaverhausen]

39. Where does it stop? A free soda? Bag of chips?

[rug]

45. You're right!

May God forgive me.

[Horse with no Name]

241. Well if that guy gets an apple free

if I've worked there longer, do I get T-bones?:sarcasm:
I totally agree. Stealing is stealing. Where do you draw the line.
It always pisses me off because I don't drink coffee and most places give their employees free coffee, but I don't get free sodas. That is unfair.
The grocery store my daughter works in gives them a coupon every week with their paycheck for a ONE time discount of 10%, you can spend as much or as little and use the coupon...or not.
Personally, I struggle to make ends meet, and if the grocery stores start giving free food to their employees, then undoubtedly I will be the one paying for it by the prices of my food going up. I'd rather decide where my charitable contributions go, thank you very much.

[mondo joe]

235. Exactly what $ value should he be entitled to?

An apple a day? A dollar a day? Lunch?

Please be specific.

[rug]

35. An apple is not a computer.

Not that I don't like Apple.

[seabeyond]

48. there has to be a consistant rule for the employee and employer

this works for both sides. a 10, 20 percent discount. but always they must go thru the register. a consistant rule. not a well you are fired cause that is "taking" too much, or all employees taking what they want, leaving the store to be poorly run. it just makes no sense to think an employee can just grab something, cause

[rug]

60. Why are workers eating apples chastised for not following rules

and wiretap warrants unnecessary.

[seabeyond]

69. firstly he wasnt chastised, he paid for his apple

went off and enjoyed it i am sure, and had his break. and that has nothing to do wit bush not getting his ass in jail. what a broken up argument. but if he took that apple and didnt pay for it when there was a rule to pay for it, i would have fired him

[rug]

92. I'm sure you would.

Use your energy for some real thieves.

[seabeyond]

151. it is called theft. be it a pen, or an apple or a box of tide or money

out of the drawer. you dont own it, you take it, you dont pay for it, it is theft. there is no other way to look at it. you validate theft, that is your own moral compass. but theft it is

[mondo joe]

268. How many apples does it take to equal theft? 52? 1000?

Please be specific, thank you.

[applegrove]

26. I always had to pay.

[xchrom]

27. i love it! and it makes me laugh.

hey -- if you don't speak up -- we need some unions here! -- then whose gonna know how ya feel!?!?!

i'm with you, btw.

[catmother]

58. thank you. someone has to speak up for these people. i've

lived here for more than 16 years and i can't believe the crummy conditions that people have to work under. they would never get away with that in new york or any other state that has unions.

i see things all the time. waitresses sweeping the floor. well where i come from we said "it's not my job man". i've seen employees washing the windows. Jesus H. Christ. can't they allow people some dignity and hire a damn window washer?

[Beaverhausen]

67. Albertsons is unionized - at least they are here in California.

[xchrom]

81. i used to live in az --

i know what you're talking about.

it's incredibly irritating.

but it lets you know nobody is going to be serious about illegal immigration as long as that anti-union sentiment is in place.

[Tonya]

95. Well, Albertsons is unionized ...

And they make union wages with union benefits....

Did you at least spring for the apple?

[seabeyond]

188. and what is undignified earning pay to feed your children

wow catwoman. wow. i cleaned dirty clothes for a living. i didnt make a whole lot. i bought a house, i took care of myself being responsible. i didnt feel UNDIGNIFIED. really catwoman..... i would even have to clean a toilet now and again so we had a clean place to pee. who the hell is suppose to do this work. this post is pretty offensive.

again, you refuse to clean a window or sweep a floor, i would fire your ass. then how dignified are you if you cant feed you kids.

i want to know, who is it that is going to sweep floors and clean windows. and why is it ok for them to not be dignified.

[catmother]

201. i would have done whatever i had to also. what i'm saying is

that if you're a waitress -- that's what you do -- you wait tables. if your a window cleaner -- you clean windows. if your a porter you clean bathrooms. but i don't think anyone should be expected to do all 3 jobs.

i said that i never had to. i was lucky. there's nothing undignified about making an honest living, but i think employers should give a little respect to those working for them. a little show of appreciation.

so don't get so bent out of shape. it's people like you that i'm sticking up for. don't you get it?

on edit: where the hell did your response come from? first your husband owns a computer store -- then you talk about employer-employee relationships. do you have a split personality?

[seabeyond]

219. ya cat i have done all kinds of things. i have been poor and i have

not been poor. i have worked in grocery stores, waitress, accountant, dry cleaners as manager....and now hubby owns a business. we have had employees steal massive amounts and little amounts. when i was a waitress we had a station to clean every night. every restaraunt i worked in. we also had the manager go in and check our work, i wasnt offended. further it was my goal to get it all perfectly right first time. i didnt feel i was picked on cause someone was checking up on my work. in the dry cleaners i expected employees to get their work done, do it right, and not steal, and for low pay. we all got low pay. they would come in for an interview, i would say, you arent making squat, it is hard hot work and cant make a mistake. cause we had customers, that would throw such huge ass fits if one little thing was wrong with their clothes. you know, the people that are so concerned about .... "me"

i just have a different perspective of work. i have seen all sides, i have had all kinds of jobs

i have not had one jerk employer, i havent had one abusive environment. i go in, work my ass off and they pay me. i get on with life

[seabeyond]

189. oooops double posted in outrage, wink

[mondo joe]

338. What about the dignity of the window washer?

By the way, what's undignified about washing windows or sweeping the floor?

[catmother]

175. you should of heard me during the clinton impeachment. i'm

surprised they didn't run me out of town. lol

[TheCentepedeShoes]

30. Albertson's

sucks. At least the one near me does. It's like a ghost town and has this dingy look to it. And saying that may not be fair the the folks who work there and try to do their best. I only go there when picking up something on the way home from work and because they have the Max Factor 2000 Calorie Mascara that I can no longer seem to find anywhere else.

[graywarrior]

34. Face it. Working for a grocery store sucks enough.

At least Wild Oats and Whole Foods give their employees a 15% discount. Albertson's sucks bigtime. They're either owned or will soon be owned by Shaw's, another shitty company to work for.

[dysfunctional press]

41. i'm confused- is there some reason he shouldn't pay or wait in line?

if so, i'm not seeing it.

[tammywammy]

46. When I worked at Starbucks

a very blue company, we had to pay for any food we ate.
:shrug:
I don't see anything wrong with a company making an employee pay for food they're going to eat.

[bliss_eternal]

90. Every restaurant I've ever worked for--

we had a meal allowance. Certain items were comped, other items they'd charge us for (i.e. higher priced menu items). But I've never had the benefit of eating 100% free.

In a couple of restaurants, you were charged for meals whether you ate or not. They just assumed, and it was taken out of our checks. Yeah, I know--they were nazis. LOL.

[bloom]

376. I've worked at restaurants

where you could eat whatever you wanted.

I worked at one where you could only get 2 things on the menu.


I worked for another company that let employees have their choice of the product that was made ( retail price about $2-$3) and whenever there was excess of the more expensive stuff - there were big free for alls. Until the big corporation bought the place and they made employees pay the same as the customers.


I think there is quite a bit more feeling of community and camaraderie - when the employees can share in what is produced.

[Greyhound]

47. Is the worst of the super-chains according to two friends of mine

that live in Northern Illinois. He's worked for them for over 30 years and she's been there over 20. No unions, openly racist and sexist management, breaking labor laws is company policy, and on, and on.

[bliss_eternal]

70. I thought they were Union---

they went on strike in CA a couple of years ago. They were on strike a looong time, too. But I have to agree, that of all the supermarkets here, they're probably the worst.

[Sydnie]

85. they might be union if they were aquired as a different chain

before they became an Albertson's. They are union here in Mass, but they also operate under their former name still (Shaw's) although they sell Albertson's brand of many products. Here, they are actually a bit less expensive than the other choices around.

Albertson's is also looking to sell the chain soon. They have been on the market for a while and they are looking closely at their bottom line where sales are concerned.

[Greyhound]

260. They still have unions in some places, but not anywhere they've

been able to get rid of them, like right-to-starve states.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rug]

65. I think you forgot your soul, may I recommend KMarx

[catmother]

73. thank you. i'll stick with prozac. lol

[meisje]

339. please ask Doc to triple the dosage

[One_of_8]

55. I don't understand the anger

When I was in my early 20's, I worked in a local chain grocery store. I also worked at a TG&Y store. In college, I worked at the campus bookstore. When we wanted an item that was sold in the store, we had to pay for it by going to a cashier, just like everyone else. We didn't get to just take items that we wanted. Some stores give employees a discount. But you still have to go through the cashier, so they can track what is sold. I'm confused why you got so angry because the guy wanted an apple on his break and had to pay for it. Is free produce supposed to go along with working in a grocery store? If they were unionized, does that mean they get free snacks on their breaks?

[delete_bush]

170. I imagine the guy buying the apple was probably

embarrassed by the whole scene. It was the OP who decided that a grave injustice was taking place before her very eyes and took charge of the situation.

I know when I'm patiently waiting my turn in line, along with the rest of my fellow shoppers, I really appreciate some loud mouth going nuts (her description), giving themselves a battlefield promotion and telling the rest of us how to conduct our lives.

It is interesting though the number of DU'ers who feel it's OK to steal.

[seabeyond]

223. number of DU'ers who feel it's OK to steal.

this surprises me too. but also the fact this person was being picked on according to a customer, when he may feel perfectly satisfied and happy in his job. he may not of even known he was so pathetic. nice of cat to let him know what a loser, in a loser job he was. lol. i just find this funny

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

245. Absolutely Agree With Your Sentiment. And I'm In Awe As Well As

to how many all of a sudden condone stealing as if it's some inherent right. Some really scarey mentality in this thread that has me kinda shakin my head.

[delete_bush]

264. I just don't remember the dinner table

conversation when, as a kid, my parents were discussing the level of stealing that was OK. My apparently naive father had no theft formulas based on the value of merchandise appropriated relative to either his salary, what other people were doing, or the cap rate of his employer.

I guess a number of the posters here engage in a somewhat different dialog with their children.

[noamnety]

62. I don't understand the complaint about him waiting on line

I don't like spending my lunch waiting in a line to buy a snack - so I plan ahead and pack something. I would assume he has the same option. He doesn't HAVE to spend his break on line, it was his choice to spend it that way.

[apollo56]

66. How petty you aqre = stay in Az

[catmother]

182. don' t know what you're talking about -- but i have no intention of

leaving phoenix, arizona.

[WI_DEM]

72. I understand your anger at lack of unions

and can understand why you would want the employee to go to the head of the line, but as for the apple--it is merchandise and it should be paid for. I used to work in retail and while we got an employee discount we still had to pay for what we wanted to buy. Yes, it's just an apple and maybe he had to pay only a few cents, but that's the way it is.

p.s.
it would be nice if the employer put fruit in the break room (if they have one)without any charge.

[catmother]

109. that would be a great idea. the nicer you treat your employees

the harder they'll work for you.

[demosincebirth]

114. I recently met this guy who worked as a janitor at Safeway and he

was telling me that he got fired for eating a day old donut that he forgot to pay for. He was in a union, too.

[rug]

129. It happens every day.

Astounding that people support treating workers this way.

[mondo joe]

291. More astounding that some people are defennding theft.

How is the employee taking a donut without paying for it different than a non employee doing the same?

[likesmountains 52]

82. Hmm, should the teller at the bank be allowed to take home small change?

I don't get the logic...I worked in a union grocery and nowhere in our contract did it say we could have free food...

[catmother]

83. i have never worked in a supermarket or drugstore or anything

like that. i always had a nice office job where i sat on my ass. so when i see people busting their asses for $8.00 an hour i feel for them. and i remind my husband that he has been lucky all his life with having a good job with good pay.

[One_of_8]

100. Hey, I work in an office too

Just because I sit down most of the day, doesn't mean I'm not working hard. I can understand wanting to ensure that workers earn a decent wage. But I don't agree that this clerk should not have to pay for his lunch, just because of the type of job he has. As someone else pointed out, the clerk has the choice of bringing a snack/lunch with him to work. It was his choice to have an apple today, so he bought an apple. It's not evil of his employer to want to be paid for an item out of their stock.

[catmother]

138. i'm not saying i didn't work hard. believe me i did, but i was well

compensated. can't i feel some compassion for my fellow man who doesn't have it as easy as i do? actually when i think about it now, i should have bought him the apple.

[Little Star]

130. I'm with you catmother

From the age of 18 - 35 I worked in some very high end restaurants (no chains) as a waitress. Every place I worked had us come in a bit early and eat for free if we wanted. No, we couldn't have the most expensive stuff on the menu but we could eat for free. As a matter of fact we all had little snacks like dessert or salad any time we were not busy. Soda and coffee were a given if you wanted them at anytime. Booze was the only real taboo. That was years ago though. I, like you, believe in employers giving their workers perks. Most executives get perks that cost a lot more than an apple.

[Spinoza]

99. Some people think they have it bad in other countries.

But here you actually have to pay for a fucking lousy apple. On your break, yet! Fucking corporate fascist pigs.

REVOLUTION NOW!!!

[Lenore]

105. this thread is a riot!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[likesmountains 52]

112. the one about "zombies at the mall" is pretty rich too....

[ronnykmarshall]

131. No kiddin!

I'm loving it.

[ronnykmarshall]

103. Uh ....

When I go to lunch it's on my time. So what's the difference if he went next door and got a burger at Jack-in-the-box? He has to pay for that and wait in line too.

What's your point?

I see store employees all the time in line to purchase food while they are on a break. and YES my grocery store is unionized.

[mondo joe]

280. The difference is that when you steal from your employer it's not

stealing. Or something like that. ;-)

[Beaverhausen]

106. This is probably the most WTF? thread in the history of DU!!!

:crazy:

[ronnykmarshall]

132. I still want my free money.

My bank has a bunch of it laying around.

[seabeyond]

165. lol lol you have me laughing

having a tough time not losing my chocolate cover cherry that is in my mouth..... that i paid for.

[eggman67]

336. I work for a Pharma

I want my free drugs :woohoo:

[Cats Against Frist]

210. No shit. And I have nothing else to say. n/t

[catmother]

116. i worked in the legal department of a large phone company in

new york. there were times when we had to do "all nighters". we worked until the briefs were perfect. what the manager of the department did during these times was to have food catered. and let me tell you it was good food -- italian food -- veal cutlet parmigiana, sausages, pasta, cold cuts, desert -- everything -- it was laid out on the table of one of the conference rooms. we would all take a break and eat together and then go back to our work, but if anyone got hungry in the middle of the night -- the food was there. and we appreciated it and busted our asses.

[Lenore]

127. But, on a regular workday...

Did you get an apple?? :rofl:

[catmother]

142. no. but if i asked for one i think my supervisor would have bought

me one and not made me pay for it.

[Magrittes Pipe]

133. All that free food's probably why my phone rates are so high.

Way to support your fellow man. ;)

[Beaverhausen]

137. LOL!!!

:toast:

[catmother]

144. well i have to be honest. i was an outside consultant for them

and i would joke with the lawyers and say "you better hold onto me or i'll tell the ratepayers what really goes on here".

don't know about your rates today. it was 18 years ago and it was new york telephone which no longer exists.

[ronnykmarshall]

322. Yeah damn it!!!

I think that all that fancy EYE-talian food is why my fucking cell phone bill is so high. Damn neo-nazi pasta eaters!!

[likesmountains 52]

140. ok...that is a lot different than getting free food every day...I know

it's just an apple but multiply an apple a day for every Albertson's employee...well you get the idea.

[Beaverhausen]

148. Oh, now there you go bringing logic into the discussion

:hi:

[Sydnie]

145. Believe me, your clients paid for that meal

It was a perk in your eyes, but it was billed to your client one way or the other.


There is no free lunch anymore. Not even for most waitstaff. Most waitstaff in the business now have to pay, a reduced rate usually, but they pay all the same. You can't stay in business now giving it away.

[seabeyond]

171. and periodically we will buy lunch for our employees

or when hubby takes employee out of town for a job will buy lunch. yes it is appreciated. every company i have worked in there have been nice things done for employee. but it isnt giving them free stuff from the grocery store. it will be abused.

[stepnw1f]

128. Good Of You!!!

I only wish more people would do the same.

[Telly Savalas]

136. This reminds me of an incident I heard about the other day...

Donald Rumsfeld is giving the President his daily briefing. He concludes by
saying: "Yesterday, 3 Brazilian soldiers were killed in Iraq".

"OH NO!", the President exclaims. "That's terrible".

His staff sit stunned at this display of emotion, nervously watching as the
President sits, heads in hands, rocking backwards and forwards.
Finally the President looks up and asks...

"How many is a Brazillion?"

[petronius]

282. Brilliant - this is one of the wisest posts on this whole thread!! (nt)

[Telly Savalas]

321. Why thank you, good sir.

If ever a thread deserved the Brazillian Joke, this one is it.

[likesmountains 52]

143. Should I be worried that I find this thread hilarious??

[davis_islander]

161. Silly thread...

Not at all likemountains, I find it absurd. You can not allow employees to just have free product, it would never work. Obviously the original poster has never had employees. You can't let one guy have an apple, the next guy will take two. The original poster could use a reality check and some anger management counseling, not to mention an invitation to mind her own business. Her dissatisfaction with greedy corporations is clouding her rational thinking and daily living coping abilities. Why this thread was ever started in the first place, I'll never know.

[likesmountains 52]

228. oh, I agree that he should pay for the apple...but the comments the thread

has sparked are funny...no?

[cmdrzog]

192. Actually you probably should be

There is a vast gulf between the way employees are treated now and the way they were 40 years ago; what is even worse is the employees themselves feel that such treatment is ok and its just the way things are and the way things should be.
In high school my first summer job was prep & dishwash at a "surf & turf" family restaurant & bar at about 1.30 an hour. The boss and owner was genuinely upset when I showed up w/ a brown bag lunch, if you work for me you eat anything you want no charge, the only rule is lobster and steak only once a week, he explained. They brought cases of beer into the kitchen after the main rush was over and the bar was free when the kitchen was closed, house brands only.
Years later the partners at a stationery store asked why I would insult them by offering to pay for a candy bar, would they be expected to pay for coffee in my house they wondered?
At a large wholesale operation in NYC the partners would line up cases of school supplies (they sold them) for the employees to take at back to school time.
In more recent times moonlighting at Friendly's Restaurant the manager became enraged when I drank a glass of water, yea its water but the goddamn cup is inventory.
Sadly today the prevailing attitude is "you can't stay in business by giving it away" , and the employees actually believe it; even when they see the CEO or owners in their castles, their 3500 square foot homes and land yachts and 100 dollar lunches, even when they see that even then they feel they should pay for crumbs from the table.
It really isn't funny.

[rug]

202. Welcome to DU.

Good post.

[Lars39]

208. good post

[RB TexLa]

152. Why did you ask him if he was going to open another register?

Was the register you were in line for not working?

[catmother]

186. no. it was an express lane but had quite a few people in line.

sometimes management will send an employee over to tell the customers that they're opening another line.

[BushOut06]

199. So you wanted this poor employee to cancel his break for you?

I'm confused - one the one hand, you're pissed because this poor guy had to pay a few cents for an apple. Then you turn around and want him to cancel his break and open up a register?

[BushOut06]

156. I know what you mean - I work for a large national electronics chain

And dammit, I should be able to take one of those 65" plasma HDTVs home, I shouldn't have to pay for it.

[likesmountains 52]

157. ok...time for us all to go buy a bag of apples..and give it to an

Albertson's employee so this never happens again!

[seabeyond]

177. you have me cracking up. poor catwoman. it was just a world

she had no clue about. she admits, she has had good jobs, good employers..... shruggin.

[catmother]

191. i guess i don't. i just see hardworking people with no future to

look forward to. just a few weeks ago i was in another grocery store and i was getting some cold cuts. the woman came over -- limping -- she was a senior -- should be enjoying her golden years and here she is slicing ham. and she was so nice too. my heart goes out to these people. i'm now wondering if she was allowed to eat the slice of ham that i said was too thick. i always have them show me the first piece to make sure it's sliced the way i want it.

[seabeyond]

195. well cat..... you dont have to see all these people as poor souls

cause they just may not feel that way about themselves. i know my grocery people. lots of olders work there. they love it. i imagine a couple can well afford not working there, but they are out and about chatting with people, being a part of the world. i have one bagger, in his 70's that just loves me. he holds my door open for me. he tells me how nice i am and i just make his day. it is so nice to have nice. hugest of smiles. the man probably wants to be with people. and people do the bestthey can with what they have. dont make it less for them, than what it may be. i wouldnt have a single problem working in a grocery store. and that kids..... well, he is young. it is a perfectly fine job for a just starting in the working world teen

[rug]

207. Is Butterfly McQueen your favorite actress?

[seabeyond]

234. ????

[cmdrzog]

304. Its a very funny post and point on

[rug]

197. Be careful.

If she offered you a slice to taste, half the people in this thread would have you in jail on conspiracy to steal.

[Sydnie]

203. Of course she wasn't allowed to eat it

If she had been then everyone would want to work their shifts in the deli where they could mess up and eat all day for free.

[rug]

220. Yeah, every worker wants to work in a supermarket so they can steal ham.

[Sydnie]

225. Not every worker in the world, every employee in that store

Ever heard the saying "why buy the cow when the milk is free?"

so, where do you draw the line? What would an employee have to liberate from it's corporate prison to have consequences apply for his actions?

[Susang]

230. Please take this in the spirit which it was intended

But you really need to get a clue. People work. Just because people have jobs that you believe are menial and hard does not mean that they have no future. Just because you see elderly people working does not mean that they would prefer to be home sitting on their asses.

My 67 year old father went back to work because he was bored out of his mind. My 72 year old uncle worked at Starbucks until he died last September. You know why? He fucking loved Starbucks coffee. People have a lot of reasons for working the jobs they do, you assuming that they are miserable and pitying them is patronizing at best and insulting at worst. You come off sounding superior. Unintentional, I'm sure, but it's there nonetheless.

BTW, I happen to have one of those types of jobs you think are so terrible. I've been a waitress, am currently in retail and will probably never have such prestigious jobs as you have held. It has been my choice, I have a college degree, I just prefer a different lifestyle. There's a lot of us out there. We don't need anyone's pity.

[mondo joe]

273. What a stinking patronizing attitude.

My grandmother worked till practically the day she died -- not because she had to but because she didn't want to sit around. She had a 5th grade education, never did any work but unskilled labor, and never felt demeaned by iit a day in her life. Work was work.

She wouldn't have appreciated your pity.

[Llewlladdwr]

344. I wonder if you even hear...

the elitism in your comments? Your heart went out to her but damn if you were going to accept inappropriately sliced ham!

I weep for our species....

[Sydnie]

181. I suggested that up thread and was told not everyone eats apples

:rofl:

[seabeyond]

184. bah hahhahha, that is even more funny. lol lol

my 8 year old doesnt understnad why i am laughing out loud. actually hubby was tickled an hour ago before dinner.

[catmother]

187. you have a kind heart.

:shrug:

[browndog]

206. The Bottom Line to It All

You know we can all sit here for the evening and debate whether it's ok to take something without paying for it because some feel it's justified in a moral sense, but I don't think that's necessarily helpful. Here's what it boils down to...both sides have good arguments. Since we can be salad bar believers (we pick and choose which part of an argument we want to believe and throw the rest away), we have to look at and embrace ALL of both sides. For the ladies and gentlemen who think it's ok to take the apple without paying for it...if you were earning excellent money would it be ok if someone started taking something petty from you regularly? Let's say it was your newspaper that you subscribed to, would that be ok? A spatula from your barbecue perhaps? For the ladies and gentlemen who think the gentleman should not just take the apple but have to pay for it...I assume you feel that way because you consider it stealing. Fair enough, it is stealing...how do you feel about the plethora of labor laws and human rights abuses committed by Wal Mart? How eager are you for them to be held accountable for "stealing" from their workers? I majored in business management, and I've studied everything from finance, to accounting...I know EXACTLY how big business is structured to squeeze every penny out of the consumer while giving them a barely "good" value for their dollar, if that. How eager are you to see the oil execs held accountable for price gouging us? Don't just be talking heads people...consider both sides.

[seabeyond]

251. those feeling it is stealing, all those things you talk about we fight

that is why we are on the board. as we dont feel a need to validate theft of an apple we certainly fight against the employer stealing from the employee. why we are here. theft is theft.

now in argument i have talked to the boys of theft and asked them, you have a person who has no money, no money no food and has hungry kids. he steals a loaf of bread, what do you do. it is fun watching kids think this out. bottom line it is theft, but his greater responsibility is to feed his kids.

also as an employer we pay employees way above what same positions are paid in this area, become we are believers in liveable wage. even though we dont have to. we dont have people punching the clock adn we dont write down the two hour lunch or the day off for a kid or the couple day off for this, or afternoon off for that, or the continual lates. we would rather an employee jsut do right instead of being a nanny. unforunately there is always the employee that takes advantage

jsut being on du, you are fighting for employee right. but that right doesnt include theft

[Horse with no Name]

194. My daughter works in a grocery store

They have to pay for everything they consume.
Otherwise it is stealing.
I missed something here.
Any idea what those cashiers make in Phoenix?
My mom worked at Lucky's in Phoenix in 1977 and made almost $20 an hour.
I'm more concerned about the people who can't afford to pay for an apple.:shrug:

[catmother]

218. fry's had a sign up last week. $8.35 an hour. nt

[Gormy Cuss]

196. It's not paying for the apple, it's the frigging degradation

Standing in a checkout line on your short break in order to buy a stupid apple or needing a receipt on the apple you brought from home to prove that you didn't steal it is the work rules of petty bean counters. These stores have security cameras up the wazoo and theft prevention devices.

Some businesses do treat their lowest wage employees this way. Some don't. It's a management choice. If you don't like the way the employees are treated, tell the management and then spend your money some place else.

Most people I know who works in offices have the same brand of pen at home as the one used in the office. Is it intentional stealing? No. Is it misappropriation of a company supply? Why yes it is. The difference is their companies value the employees a bit more than the price of a couple of pens.

[seabeyond]

205. that kid probably didnt know he was suppose to be feeling degradation

good of you to decide for him

[browndog]

209. Don't be ignorant...

you know exactly what that person was trying to say. The public is VERY MUCH degraded by the willingnes s of big business to prosecute even the smallest hint of theft, while aggressively practicing their own form of legal theft in the way of price gouging.

[seabeyond]

255. wow justify theft of the imagined or real theft elsewhere.

you can think that is an obvious argument, i do not

[Gormy Cuss]

213. I didn't decide for the kid.

He may never have an employer that treats him any differently. I've had both kinds and I was speaking about my own view. You apparently read it in your own context and thought I was speaking for him.

[mondo joe]

242. I spent my break in line at Starbucks. Now I know I was

being degraded. <choke>

[seabeyond]

259. lol lol go figure, i found out because i swept a floor

or whatever..... lol. you are funny

[mondo joe]

238. What degredation? I stand on lines during my breaks - or else I bring

things with me.

Why is a line degrading for him but not for every other person with work hours??

[Gormy Cuss]

272. The presumption that employees are thieves.

The presumption that offering the product to employees at cost or for free is too good for them.

If it works for you, fine. For the last time, I was speaking from my own experience.

I've worked in both kinds of environments and found the one that offered the little perks was a better place with happier employees. I worked in a soda bottling plant and the rule was anything you consumed on premises was free. I worked in another setting where one minute late from your break was an automatic suspension of overtime privileges (that is, you were sent home and others got to stay for time-and-a-half.) This in a plant with inadequate bathroom facilities and it was very likely that you wouldn't make it to the head with enough time to get back on the line at the end of break. The bottling plant had low wage but loyal employees. The factory had a revolving door.

[mondo joe]

276. I agree that employers who can give perks are more appealing.

And maybe the guy's apple WAS at cost. But he still, if that were the case, would need to pay for it.

I don't see what's degrading about getting in line on your break, just like everyone else does.

[seabeyond]

281. well, we dont know anything about this kids, his enviroment

how good his employers are to him, what little perks he gets, how satisfied he is in his job..... now do we????

and look at so many that advocate theft on this very thread. i personally would be weary hiring them

[Llewlladdwr]

354. I actually have ended up supplying most of my coworkers' pens.

I hate the crappy pens we're provided so I bring in my own. It's amazing how often they walk away....

[Katherine Brengle]

198. Stop&Shop here is union, BUT...

They still have to pay for things from the store and they have to get in like everyone else... maybe it would be nice to let them check out on a separate register so they don't spend their entire breaks waiting tho...

[cynatnite]

211. The question should be if he got a discount...

not that it's free. It's unreasonable to expect employees to get items sold in the store they work at for free. It doesn't matter whether it's union or not, IMO.

They should pay, but get a decent discount.

[browndog]

214. AND, the store should start making the effort to give people

real value, and stop stealing from the public in the way of price gouging...

[rug]

215. AND, the store should stop stealing from the workers every hour.

Its profits are built on low wages.

[cynatnite]

217. absolutely!

When we lived in Idaho we had no choice but to shop at Albertson's. It was the only grocery store in our area...right next to Walmart. :eyes:

Their prices were outrageous. I couldn't have been happier when we moved to a place where there are more options.

[titoresque]

216. I thought this was a joke at first

seriously...
He's on his damn break lady, if he wants to buy a freaking apple it's his choice! Calm down and wait your freaking turn! I'd probably agree with you if your bitch was about the fact that Albertsons is so grossly overpriced and yet they still don't hire enough employees to operate their business faster....but you seem to be pissed about the whole apple thing. If I was in that line I would have thought you were a crazed lunatic!

[catmother]

224. you calm down. read carefully. i said that there were people

on the line way ahead of him. i said "can we please move this man to the front of the line -- he only has 1 apple". did he have to spend his entire break on a long line waiting to pay for a fucking apple? i was not in a hurry.

[SofaKingLiberal]

222. OK, seriously, who is recommending this thread?

:shrug:

[seabeyond]

262. lol

:shrug: but i am having lots of laughs tonight. really interesting thread to see how people are thinking. i think.

[catmother]

226. well i certainly didn't think this thread would explode the way it

has. Jesus H. Christ. i'm leaving. i'm going to watch some TV and relax for the night and i hope that man at albertson's can do the same. but probably with what they're paying him he has to rush off to a second job to survive. good night to all -- those who agree with me -- and those that don't.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

250. CatMother, Though We May Not See Eye To Eye Here, I Respect The

way you have conducted yourself in this thread. I know you never thought in a million years it would turn into what it has, and I know how tough it can be to manage personal threads like that throughout the night. It gets emotionally exhausting. But though I may not have read all your posts in this, the ones I have show you have maintained your composure and position and I respect you for that. Lord knows it is tough to do in threads like this.

So god bless and have a good night. :)

[mondo joe]

252. Maybe you should shop at a more expensive store where employees earn

more so you can feel comforted.

[seabeyond]

266. goodnight cat. watching boston legal myself, have a goodnight

[mondo joe]

227. Why shouldn't he pay for the apple?

He's paid for his work.

He's no more entitled to a free apple than you are.

And there's no union that will get a free apple in the contract.

[Throd]

229. What if he wanted a pound of thin sliced prosciutto instead of an apple?

Maybe some aged Parmesian? Where do you draw the line?

Please come over to my job to tell me how exploited and abused I don't know I am.

[seabeyond]

270. busting up so. tears. post above you too.

this has become so funny to me. oh. i need a life

[cmdrzog]

283. you want laughs heres a good link for laughs

http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/haymarket/augustspies.html


enjoy enjoy enjoy

[rug]

315. bullseye

:thumbsup:

[cmdrzog]

333. Headshot, no heart. thanks

[seabeyond]

342. oosh that is kinda ugly

and the post you sent me to was not very good. or i didnt think so anyway. and doesnt have much to do with this whole discussion. so bullseye or headshot? you both are acting like little boys. what 13?

[Throd]

327. Straight from the Crackpottery Barn!

Is it really necessary to write in such a bombastic and tedious style? Dang that was rough. And I though Anne Rice was bad.

[mondo joe]

277. That free ham union is LOT better than the one with the apple contract

Good thing they're not wasting their time on healthcare benefits!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

293. This is one of my favorite replies of the entire thread LOL

"Please come over to my job to tell me how exploited and abused I don't know I am"

LOL

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

231. Albertson's in California has self-service check-out

I've never used it so I don't know the details as to exactly how it works. But it's basically the job of the customer to ring up, bag, and pay for his/her own groceries, using a credit card. As this becomes more of a trend, clerks might start losing jobs and the pay of those who stay may get further diminished.

[Joe Fields]

248. Is Albertson's employee owned?

If so, he would be stealing from himself and fellow employee owners, if he did not pay for it.

But anyway, stealing would be wrong, no matter how you look at it. He could ask his manager if he could take an apple.

[SPKrazy]

253. So What

This is the stupidest thread



Don't you pay for your food?

[flvegan]

257. Let's say the worker DID just take the apple

then the video, showing him taking same, eating same, yet not paying for same costs him his job as it's "against" the rules. I mean, if every employee just "took an apple" there would be issues. Granted, there's a better way to do this, maybe an altogether different scanner that automatically takes the employee discount in the back, so that there's no hold up up front. Purchases deducted from pay, at the discounted employee rate. Save time, money...resources.

Tell Albertson's to call me, and I'll save them a fortune in stupid costs...

The saddest part of this post? I'm a big damn idiot, but I get it. A multi-billion dollar industry doesn't.

[Nye Bevan]

261. Damn. I'm not in a union. So I'm also missing out on the free apples. (nt)

[mondo joe]

263. LOL! As if there's a union that would negotiate for free apples in their

contract anyway. :-)

The OP completely ignores the fact that in a union shop there's a contract with explicit terms - even if it somehow included free apples there'd still be terms -- how many apples for one!

[DetroitProle]

292. I work for Kroger...

a UFCW chain. I have to pay for apples, ciggies, everything.
I don't really have a problem paying for apples and the like(I paid for a pear on my break recently) except for a few issues:
-the bastards in management try to insist we punch as soon as we leave our register, thus, if I want a ciggy, I'm supposed to punch out at the front of the store, walk to the back of the store to get my coat, and then walk back to the front of the store, outside, to smoke. By the time that's all done and over with, my break is over.
Sooo I just sneak through the aisles, grab my coat, come back, punch, and go outside. I'm not going to lose time on my break because they don't know where to put a damn coat rack.
- our fridge in the break room is "broken", thus nearly everyone goes to the Deli and buys some overpriced, warmed-over chicken on their lunch, just because they'd like to eat on an 8 1/2 hour day(lazy socialists!). Total bullshit. I have a gut feeling the fridge intentionally stays broken so we're supposed to spend our hard-earned money while we're at work. That would be okay but...
- we start at six dollars an hour, that's right, six dollars. Granted, we get raises(of a lousy quarter) every 90 days, and that adds up after a few years, but six dollars an hour is an insult. Thank God I just do it to pay for college...no individual can support themself on six dollars an hour. Total humiliation of the worker.
- I don't wait in line on my break. We're supposed to, but they can go fuck themselves with a pineapple. So let's say I wanted to BUY a pack of cigarettes, well, if its any day before seven o'clock, I probably wouldn't have time to crack them open before my break is over. My break is supposed to be a break. Not just an allotted amount of time the managers have to get out of the way before they can get back to working me to the bone.

We have U-scan self-checkouts, but those are just another disgusting affront to the worker. One cashier supervising four self-checkout stations...sounds like that translates into lost jobs! I don't use those buggy pieces of shit, and no one else should either. When you buy something at the store, you're really not just paying for your item, you're paying to have someone ring it up and someone else to bag it for you. Don't fall for their robotic bullshit. Who wants to deal with a stupid machine anyway? Go talk to your cashier. It's a hard, boring, and lonely job.

We only get a 10% discount on store-brand items. Woopdie-fucking-do. So that apple isn't discounted to begin with.

I have no problem paying for a pear...I have a problem with mistreatment and insulting wages. Pay a decent wage and you won't have to worry about some poor slob stealing a pear. Corporate America will NEVER learn that.

[mondo joe]

294. I love the U-Scan.

It's faster than waiting in line.

I recognize the fact that part of my cost is the overhead that I'm not using -- but I'm more interested in my time than a cost I'd have to pay one way or the other.

But for what it's worth, I do hate Kroger. :-)

[cmdrzog]

311. I will not use the U-scan ever

At the local HD they either open a register w/ a wage earning human or I leave the stuff in the store.

[mondo joe]

312. I don't believe in employment as charity.

But that's me.

[cmdrzog]

325. I don't believe in business as exploitation of labor

[mondo joe]

332. Really? All business is mutual exploitation from the biggest corporation

to the smallest village.

If I am a gifted baker and I sell my breads, I am the buyers are enngaged in mutual exploitation. If I sell a lot and hire someone to assist me, that person and I are engaged in mutual exploitation as well.

How do you manage to get through your day without exploitation?

And how ever can you manage to get by without ever using an ATM but always using a human bank teller? Or do you limit that particular standard to groceries?

[cmdrzog]

356. There are models based on cooperation and mutual advantage, I

understand that this is probably a quaint concept to many.

I have no difficulty dealing w/ humans, have never used an ATM, and HD is that orange store that pushes u scan. I want some small part of what I spend to help another person have something to spend.

[mondo joe]

367. Mutual exploitation IS mutual advantage.

My employer and I mutually benefit from our mutually exploitive relationship.

[DetroitProle]

371. a concious consumer! Also...

:patriot:
You're helping out a lot of hardworking folks!

Not to mention, haven't we become dehumanized enough already? One could easily spend a day...
buying gas at the pump, getting cash from an ATM, buying nails from a machine, then buying grocieries from a machine, buy a movie from the TV, buy a book on the internet, hell, even take college classes on the computer...and not have to look a single human being in the eye.
Call me nostalgic, but I think that's a sad society. :(

[DetroitProle]

335. Nah, not charity...

I understand being in a rush. Adequate staffing and an Express Lane could take care of that.
Not charity in that those things don't even work...on peak hours, at least. It's nigh-on-impossible for one cashier to handle an endless stream of customers at that thing on peak hours. Credit card signings, cash back, scales that don't work or get set off balance by careless customers, the cash dispensers frequently jamming up, voids, produce codes...the whole system goes to hell. In the end, during times like those, an efficient cashier would be able to handle things much better and quicker than the U-scan. It was just a cheap attempt to eliminate cashiers, and a failed one at that.
That being said, I don't really see red when people use the U-scan, but I wouldn't mind taking an axe to those machines either.

[mondo joe]

337. I don't see the difference between a U-Scan and an ATM.

I do feel badly for anyone who loses a job because of automation - but like evolution, it's the way of life.

[DetroitProle]

348. I think I just explained it

It's rather impossible to screw up an ATM(unless one intends to). Send 6 people to the U-Scan and you have absolute chaos. Send 6 people with a few items into a checkout line and they'll all be out in minutes.
What usually happens at the U-scan is all the alarms, bells, buzzers, and wistles end up going off at once. People end up waiting around impatiently for "cashier assistance" while the lone cashier at the helm has 4 other people to have sign their credit card slips, dispense change to since the machine jammed up, enter a birthdate for a 60 year old man to buy alcohol, and tell the kids at U3 to stop sitting on the scale.
Not evolution in that in the end, it's more trouble than its worth.

[mondo joe]

355. But I don't have any more problems at U Scan than I do at ATMs.

In my experience they're both easy, and both more convenient. And like ATMs, the U Scans will just get more efficient and reliable with time.

And they both cost people jobs.

[Lars39]

299. Excellent post.

Welcome to DU,DetroitProle !!! :toast:

[sheelz]

307. I understand!

I work for Quality Markets--same issues! Your not alone. Damn those Corporate Bastards!

[rug]

317. Half the people on this thread will accuse you of stealing money by

not punching out.

[DetroitProle]

323. Bring 'em on!

I'll spend my break taking a break, not dancing around for the bosses. I've never stolen even an apple in my whole life and I deserve 15 minutes to have a coffee, a smoke, and read the Free Press.

[rug]

328. You bring the smokes, I'll bring the apples.

[The Backlash Cometh]

295. "Right to work" means "Right to fire" doesn't it?

They can fire you at any time, except for the exceptions given in Title 9.

Another one of those Republican catch phrases which means just the opposite.

[catmother]

349. exactly. and maybe this man did not want to ask if he could go

to the front of the line to pay for his apple because he might just get fired. so i asked if he could.

[mondo joe]

351. Or maybe he was minding his own business and wished you had as well.

But I guess it's easy to decide you know what's best for others once you decide they're hapless victims.

[mitchtv]

296. My Partner started loudly complaining at the gas station

about the prices. I was in the car. I finally blurted out rather loudly "Impeachment" or "Chimpeachment". It just came out spontaenously.

[bettyellen]

297. we had constant toilet paper theft at one place i worked, it was HELL!

and the bathroom was so tiny and overused we really needed extras in there, because those rolls would have to be replaced 2-3 times a day.
they wouldn't do it because whatever they put there, would disappear. so we all did without because one person always stole the TP.
i know they were underpaid, but fuck, all the women in the office, many of them also underpaid, were really put out by this. god forbid you forgot your own tissues. and since there was a general lack of TP, some of the ladies started hovering over the toilet, making their aim less than perfect. well, it started to get nasty....
and the messenger guy, who was also told he had to clean the bathrooms, didn't want to do it anymore. that was nice, it got to be a real pit in there. all because a couple of people didn't feel like following the rules they were hired under, the rules everyone else followed.
i woulda given that paper theif one chance, and then fired her ass.

[rug]

318. You know, this post almost persuaded me.

But the boss should get a bigger bathroom.

[bettyellen]

326. i wish they could have. that office space sucked.

but it sucked much more because we had seriously half assed management.
the boss was too much of a wuss to force the guy to clean the bathrooms, yet other people, better workers would be rode hard fro no good reason. nepotism, bad management.
whatever. i really blamed the TP thief, it was alot of paper being stolen, no one person needed the TP that bad...and it really caused a downward spiral. :shrug:

[catmother]

313. well i couldn't resist -- i came back to check new posts. first of

all the man was not a kid -- he was in his 50s or 60s. he wasn't trying to steal the apple. he was waiting on line to pay for it -- while on his break. my outrage is that albertson's is ripping people off day after day with their high prices. i think they can afford to give an apple to an employee.

if that's not their policy so be it. and here in arizona you don't have much choice as far as jobs go. someone said he could get another job. they probably all pay the same.

someone said i should shop in a more expensive store -- that the employees would be paid better. albertson's is the most expensive.

so again i bid you all a goodnight.

i'm fklempt (sp?) talk among yourselves. lol

[mondo joe]

316. "an apple"? What is the $ value you believe an Albertson's employee

should be given in store product per year exactly?

[rug]

320. You remind me of a Third Mate on the Titanic checking tickets

on April 14, 1912.

[mondo joe]

324. Tsk tsk. More ad hominems, more evasion, but still no answers.

Thank you for confirming that your position is indefensible.

[incapsulated]

345. Your heart is in the right place

But I've worked in more retail establishments than I like to remember, and all I've ever gotten was a discount, at best. Which was pretty substantial in some places, actually.

A shit job is a shit job, whether or not you get free apples.

:)

[catmother]

329. this thread has had more activity than the muslim cartoon threads

:think:

[madmom]

330. well there are some places that don't have lockers or

someplace for you to put personal things, and there are some places that sell food that don't let you bring in food from some place else.

[Heddi]

334. So your apartment has a repairman come to fix your sink

He's low-paid. He likes some of your husband's clothes. He should be able to take those clothes that he likes because he's a wage-slave and can't afford nice clothes like you can.

He also is hungry and doesn't want to spend 10 minutes driving to Jack in the Box for a burger. Mind if he has free reign of your fridge? Oh, and he's been wanting a computer for a while but bills keep getting in the way of that. He'll just take yours. I mean, you don't mind. He's working a degrading job not only fixing sinks, but unclogging toilets and spackling holes in the walls of vacated apartments. He probably only makes $9 an hour. What's the big deal. So he takes your computer. Big deal. He's a wage slave. And so what if he pilfers your underwear drawer..what, his wife doesn't have a right to nice undies? And his kids don't have a right to a nice bedroom set like the one your kids have?

Oh, and since he's a wage slave with 2 kids and a wife, he can't afford a car. But you have two. Surely you don't need both. That would be greedy for you to have something that someone else doesn't have and wants. So he'll just take your car as well.

You're okay with that?

[catmother]

340. that's very good. i can't stop laughing. no of course, it's not

okay. it's was just a damn apple. look at what this has turned into. this thread has been going for almost 5 hours and i have to admit it's stupid. when i posted it i was pissed at albertson's -- thought i would get a few replies -- well this is insane.

[mondo joe]

350. Just a damn apple x all work days x all employees = ?

Assuming it's limited to appples and only one per day. You might have whole meals in mind since you find having to sweep a floor so degrading.

[rug]

357. That's right, Joe. Civilization is about to unravel.

[mondo joe]

359. Nice straw man. But since you can't answer with specifics, I don't

expect more.

No wonder communism turned out to be such a dud.

[seabeyond]

353. lollol catmother i hear ya

it is just really surprising hearing so many suggest stealing is good. ya it is just an apple, but you raising kids wouldnt say it is just an apple, ok to steal, you know you wouldnt. but further, you say older man,.... possibly he would be outraged at the thought of "taking" just an apple. though surprised that so many dont seem to see it as theft, i have to say possibly instead of probably. just eye opening to where we are in our culture. hey, and i always let people with few items go ahead of me. i am right there with you. and an employee, i would send him in front of me no problem

[catmother]

365. thank you. i don't know how it became about stealing. i said

"the man was in line waiting to pay for his apple". he was on his break. never even implied that he was going to steal it. and no i don't believe in stealing -- although i will take exception to the looting that went on after katrina. when people go in and take food and dry clothes for their family under those circumstances -- i can justify it. but not when they take tvs and VCRs.

[mondo joe]

374. Just curious --- what would the store being unionized have to do with

the situation, since you brought it up in your post.

What union would negotiate having to wait in line to buy groceries or not?

[seabeyond]

375. the stealing revolved around justifying he allowed the apple

because it was just an apple. people werent getting why you cant allow just an apple. because, ... it is stealing. so we just cut to the chase on that one. katrina again was a whole other thing. i put in a post above, teaching kids about stealing. (I like them to think)..... a man with no money, hungry kids, steals a loaf of bread to feed his children..... is he bad. gosh they wanted to go immediately to stealing was wrong...... but what is his greater responsibility

but this apple thing, is stealing. we need boundaries in life. and people on this thread cannot justify it and excuse it. it is wrong, even if it is just an apple

[bettyellen]

358. i had a repairman bust into my entenman's once...

he seemed to have just grabbed a big fistful of cake. i wished he had used a knife.

[rug]

361. Lol

[catmother]

372. that is too funny. maybe he had low blood sugar and was

irrational.

[bettyellen]

373. i was irrational when i saw that... i felt so violated. LOL.

[seabeyond]

377. lol that is cute

[meisje]

352. Your poor husband, how does he do it?

[catmother]

366. he's been with me for more than 35 years. like i said in an earlier

post he does not bring me around his co-workers for fear of what will come out of my mouth.

[upi402]

364. good for you!

thank you!:toast:

[smartvoter]

368. I hate Albertson's too. I shop in Basha's. Doesn't get bluer... nt

[Lex]

378. Locking.

I think we can safely say we've explored every facet of this topic.

It's flamed out now.


Thanks,

Lex
DU Moderator