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blues90 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-17-07 05:04 PM
Original message
How do we break the backs of corporations ?
Since many are military and banking and lets not forget the super box stores that crept into our lives over the years like a cancer . Also the enormous oil corps bleeding us and letting the troops bleed for their profits .

I realize there will never come a day when people stop buying crap . They need over inflated medical , car and hone insurance .

I doubt many are willing to drive less or car pool or take mass transit to cut down on fuel .

The other day I was driving behind someone who have in memory of their son , died in 2005 written in fancy script across the rear window and the license plate also said mis yu John .

I figured this was their son who was killed in either Iraq or Afghanistan , what troubled me was they were driving the largest SUV ford ever produced , the excursion and the limited edition no less .

So they are certainly not aware this killing and their sons death was for oil .

Who am I to judge ?

With the threat of going into Iran and the money all being held by the top 2 % what chance have we got to break this trend ? Do we have a voice , will we gain a voice ?
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canadianbeaver Donating Member (929 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-17-07 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. That is the $400 million severance pay question!!!! eom
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-17-07 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. Redefine them.
As it stands, corporations enjoy many of the benefits of an individual citizen, but none of the responsibility or accountability. If you or I kill five thousand people in a year for profit, we get the death penalty or life in prison. If a corporation does the same, the CEOs pay themselves the majority of the company's value in "retirement" benefits, declare bankruptcy and/or dissolve the company, and reopen shop under a different name. As currently defined, corporations are the Frankenstein monsters of the wealthy, unleashed upon the public with no goal other than accumulating greater wealth, regardless of the damage they do in the process. Unless and until we force them to put humanity before profit, they will destroy the world to make a buck no one will live to spend.
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orpupilofnature57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-17-07 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. Smedley Butler ,a man on the inside thwarted Shrub before he was born,,
Edited on Wed Jan-17-07 05:15 PM by orpupilofnature57
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Double T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-17-07 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
4. The corporations aided by the wall street 'traitors' will eventually.......
Edited on Wed Jan-17-07 05:18 PM by Double T
gut themselves; unfortunately 'WE' will ALL pay the price with a destroyed economy and a worthless currency. History seems to ALWAYS repeat itself and 'WE' never learn from our RECENT PAST MISTAKES; obsessive, insatiable greed is NOT GOOD for anyone.
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generaldemocrat Donating Member (227 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-17-07 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
5. The govt should subsidize small businesses....
principally in technologically intensive sectors such as alternative energy. After a certain fixed period (like 3-5 years) the government should terminate the subsidies and see which businesses have done well and can survive on their own. The ones that have done well will grow and go on to challenge the big corporations.
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mnhtnbb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-17-07 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
6. We break the backs of corporations when we stop CONSUMING!
BUT--we also throw the economy into a tailspin.
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-17-07 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Not to mention it's logistically near-impossible.
Unless everyone was completely self-reliant, how could we pull that one off? And how likely is it that everyone could or would be completely self-reliant?
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-17-07 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
7. I'm Curious What Led You To Believe Their Son Died In Iraq.
There are God knows how many other causes of death that are far more frequent than having perished in Iraq. Was there anything else on the vehicle that brought you down this path of conclusion or was it solely based on the fact that it said their son died?
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KT2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-17-07 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
8. Criminal penalties
Penalties for employees of corporations do not fit the crime. They should be reworked to take into account the number of people adversely affected.
Criminal penalties, no probation, seize assets just like a hospital does to get their bills paid from individuals.
Corporate contributions of all kinds to politicians should not be allowed.
Tighten up on "overseas" corporations that buy their influence on the government for their advantage but avoid taxes by locating overseas.

But politicians will have to turn off the money spigot.
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haymark Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-17-07 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
9. Good idea
WE don't need those jobs or those products. We can all be self employed or work for small businesses.
Are you sure John wasn't 11 in 2005 and died of luekemia? Or 22 and killed by a drunk driver? Extreme sporting accident?
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-17-07 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
10. Eliminate the legal fiction of "corporate personhood"
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nebenaube Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-17-07 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. I agree..
From what I understand there is a conflict between what the court descision that granted "personhood" actually was and what the abstract/summary of the law actually says.
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kimmerspixelated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-17-07 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
12. I really think most people
not us, the informed, are too busy earning a living, or have to juggle so much family life with overscheduled kids,etc.,that they have no idea the wealth of info that awaits them in the alternative news areas. They believe everything the networks or their doctors tell them. It probably wouldn't occur to them that the war is about oil profiteering. If they do use the internet it is for entertainment or MySpace or shopping. We at the Du are seekers of truth.
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blues90 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-17-07 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
13.  I am not sure how John died
He was the right age 25 and this SUV was from a pretty red area . I have no idea how he died , it was the first time I have seen anything like this and should not have assumed anything .
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-17-07 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
14. legally rescind corporate "personhood"
legally establish that money is not free speech

public election financing, legally prevent corporations or their "trade associations" from all lobbying

brutally regulate polluters

eliminate all tax breaks for corporations that offshore American jobs, pollute, commit tax or accounting crimes

establish a maximum wage that is 40 times (or thereabouts) the minimum wage

establish federally regulated guidelines for executive compensation

establish rigorous federally regulated guidelines for cross-pollination of boards of directors

I'm sure there are more . . .
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A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-17-07 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
15. Do you want to break the backs of the millions of Americans that work for them, too?
"Since many are military and banking"

How many? Should every single Banking and military contracting company have it's back broken? All of them?

"and lets not forget the super box stores that crept into our lives over the years like a cancer ."

A cancer that all Americans fed. All of us. Even you, most likely.

"Also the enormous oil corps bleeding us and letting the troops bleed for their profits."

They might be bleeding us and be behind the push for war in the middle east but again, should they ALL be busted? What about the millions of hardworking Americans that depend on the Oil and Gas industry and related businesses for their livelihoods?


"I doubt many are willing to drive less or car pool or take mass transit to cut down on fuel."

You might be surprised. Look at the rail systems of Chicago and New York. Entrenched and well used. Of course, mass transit systems have to be well designed and actually take people from where they are to where they want to go. (witness Atlanta's "MARTA" or Miami's Metrorail)

Your tale of the sticker on the Ford Extinction was, unfortunately for you, a story of you seeing an asshole. We all meet assholes every day. You're just lucky you didn't have to have a conversation with the asshole.

What chance have we got to break this trend? Teach peace to your children and also teach them that there are choices they can make. Among them are breaking the rules, following the rules or becoming one that actually MAKES the rules.

Change takes time. Breaking the backs of corporations seems to me to be a bit like tilting at windmills, not to mention the windmill is full of people you probably don't want to hurt.
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blues90 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-17-07 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. You judge me far to harshly
I think you know what corporations I was refering to for the most part .

No , I have not been in a box store , I refuse .

Also I know all about peace , I am 57 and went through the entire movement .

There are no people I want to hurt other than the ones who profit for fortunes off the backs of the very people who made them possible in the first place .

I worked for the auto industry , not at the plants but in dealerships and watched my job vanish to nothing . This was not my doing it was greed of the corporation who in fact failed many workers who are now out of work and have about as much chance of ever getting ahead above basic survival as I do now .

I am from a generation who happens to have faith in the independant companies and the fairness to all workers out there who put in their days hard work whether mental or physical or both .

Why is there always a pesonal judgement made here on this forum ? I did not attack anyone here . I am not looking for a fight , just opinions about what I asked , and that''s all .
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A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-17-07 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Ahhh...the failings of the typwritten word. If you could see me talking to you....
Edited on Wed Jan-17-07 06:35 PM by A HERETIC I AM
you would know my response wasnt an attack. Merely conversational questions.

If you have never, not even once shopped in a big box store then i stand corrected on that point. But technically, if you have a Kroger or an Albertsons or any major grocery store chain near you that you use and not the Mom & Pop "IGA" that are still around, you have indeed shopped in a "big box".

But that is neither here nor there. I wasnt attacking and i am sorry if you think i was.

I'm 47. I have an older sister near your age. I worked in the Auto industry too, delivering cars to dealerships. It was more than greed that hath damaged the US Auto industry. It was entrenched, unshiftable archaic mindset in management AND on the part of labor. If the managers had just let the young, talented engineers build cars that we actually wanted to buy that were worth the money we were being charged, GM and Ford would STILL be #'s 1 & 2 in the world.
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blues90 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-17-07 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #21
23.  I am sorry
It read like an attack .Perhaps I am too ready to respond without sitting back and thinking .

I get like this went everything is falling down around me .

I agree about the auto field , they build cheap units for many years , I worked for ford , costly units that were never designed to last . Gone are the days of any future classic cars set for restoration .

I am however no a car buff , it was a line of work I fell into and did make a fair living for 32 years now it's over . Ford is closing dealerships all around where I live .

A shame for me I did not follow my gut and get out well before I was this old and now I have to try to start over or fail , not an easy task these days .
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DaveJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-17-07 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. For what it's worth...
I agreed with you 100%. Unfortunately I learned awhile back that I can't write "corporations" is the forums but instead have to write "corporate execs", "shareholders," "big business leaders," etc. I understood that that's what you meant.

One way to break their backs is to change perceptions, I think; like you said, people driving SUVs and supporting the Iraq war are the most ridiculous people of them all. As time goes on they will begin to realize how ridicouls they are. Same goes for evangelicals... not that evangelicals are bad but their hypocrisy in supporting * is. So again it's a matter of changing perceptions.

The corporation is one of the worst things to happen to the world.

Because of corporations people are no longer able to accomplish their potential. All corpoations do is hold people back!

Corporations do no want their workers to succeed. Their most prized asset is cheap labor.

Oh, I just realize something I forgot to mention... Another Idea....

Do people even realize that big corporations are largely controlled according to law??

Do people even realize that changing the laws by which corporations operate could drastically change things???


I don't think they do. Most people think the corporation is a natural manifestation we (government) can do nothing about. That is totally wrong.
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-17-07 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
16. We need to look to latin america.
They seem to be the only people left on the planet who have not simply surrendered to the neocon/neolib mob.
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nosmokes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-17-07 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
17. Tips on How to Oppose Corporate Rule
Tips on How to Oppose Corporate Rule

By Dr. Jane Kelsey

One of the strong critics of the corporate agenda is Dr. Jane Kelsey of the University of Auckland in New Zealand. Her work on �Economic Fundamentalism� describes the corporate takeover of New Zealand.

Dr. Kelsey has devised what she calls �A Manual for Counter-Technopols� -- suggestions and ideas for actions that challenge corporate rule.

The following is a list of some of her proposed tactics and strategies that could be adopted elsewhere.

* Be skeptical about fiscal and other �crises.� Examine the real nature of the problem, who defines it as a crisis, and who stands to gain. Demand to know the range of possible solutions, and the costs and benefits of each to whom. If the ansers are not forthcoming, burn the midnight oil to produce the answers for yourselves.

* Don�t cling to a political party that has been converted to neoconservatism. Fighting to prevent a social democratic party�s capture by right-wing zealots is important. But once the party has been taken over, maintaining solidarity on the outside while seeking change from within merely gives them more time. When the spirit of the party is dead, shed the old skin and create something new.

* Take economics seriously. Neo-liberal economic fundamentalism pervades everything. There is no boundary between economic, social, environmental or other policies. Those who focus on narrow sectoral concerns and ignore the pervasive economic agenda will lose their own battles and weaken the collective ability to resist. Leaving economics to economists is fatal.

* Expose the weaknesses of their theory. Neo-liberal theories are riddled with dubious assumptions and internal inconsistencies, and often lack empirical support. These right-wing theories need to be exposed as self-serving rationalizations which operate in the interests of the elites whom the policies empower.

* Challenge hypocrisy. Ask who is promoting a strategy as being in the �national interest,� and who stands to benefit most. Document cases where self-interest is disguised as public good.

* Expose the masterminds. Name the key corporate players behind the scenes, document their interlocking roles and allegiances, and expose the personal and corporate benefits they receive.

* Maximize every obstacle. Federal systems of government, written constitutions, legal requirements and regulations, supra-national institutions like the ILO and the UN, and strong local governments can provide barriers that slow down the pace of the corporate takeover.

* Work hard to maintain solidarity. Avoid the trap of divide and rule. Sectoral in-fighting is self-indulgent and everyone risks losing in the end.

* Do not compromise the labour movement. Build awareness of the corporate agenda at union local and workplace levels. Resist concessions that tend to deepen co-optation and weaken the unions� ability to fight back.

* Maintain the concept of an efficient public service. Resist attempts to discredit and dismantle the public sector by admitting deficiencies and promoting constructive models for change. Build support among client groups and the public which stresses the need for public services and the risks of cutting or privatizing them.

* Encourage community leaders to speak out. Public criticism from civic and church leaders, folk heroes and other prominent �names� makes corporate and political leaders uncomfortable. It also makes people think. Remind community leaders of their social obligations, and the need to preserve their own self-respect.

* Avoid anti-intellectualism. A pool of academics and other intellectuals who can document and expose the fallacies and failures of the corporate agenda, and develop viable alternatives in partnership with community and sectoral groups, is absolutely vital. They need to be supported when they come under attack, and challenged when they fail to speak out or are co-opted or seduced.

* Establish an alternative think-tank. If one already exists, make sure it is adequately funded. Neo-liberal and neoconservative think-tanks have shown how well-resourced institutes on the right can rationalize and legitimize the corporate agenda. The need is obvious for one or more equally well-supported think-tanks on the left. Uncoordinated research by isolated critics will not suffice.

* Invest in the future. Provide financial, human and moral support to sustain alternative analysis, publications, think-tanks, and people�s projects that are working actively to resist the corporate agenda and work for progressive change.

* Support those who speak out. The harassment and intimidation of critics of the corporate takeover works only if those targeted for attacks lack personal, popular and institutional support. Withdrawing from public debate leaves those who remain more exposed.

* Promote ethical investment. Support investors who genuinely respond to social and ecological concerns. Expose unethical investors who don�t. Boycotts have proved a powerful force in environmental, anti-nuclear and safe product campaigns. Companies that ignore social and environmental concerns can be embarrassed and called to account.

* Think global, act local. Develop an understanding of the global nature of economic power, and those forces which are driving current trends. Draw the links between these global forces and local events. Target local representatives, meetings and activities which feed into the global economic machine.

* Think local, act global. Actively support international strategies for change, such as people�s tribunals, non-governmental forums and codes of conduct, and action campaigns against unethical companies and corporate practices. Recognize that international action is essential to counter the collaboration of states and corporations, and to empower civil society to take back control.

* Develop alternative media outlets. Once mainstream media are captured by the right, it is difficult for critics to enter the debate, and impossible to lead it. Alternative media and innovative strategies must be put in place. Effective communication and exchange of information between sectoral groups and activists are essential, despite the time and resources involved.

* Raise the levels of popular economic literacy. Familiarize people with the basic themes, assumptions and goals of economic fundamentalism. Convince them that economic policy affects everyone, that everyone has a right to participate, and that alternatives to the corporate agenda do exist.

* Resist market-speak. Maintain control of the language, challenge its capture by the right, and refuse to convert your discourse to theirs. Insist on using hard specific terms that convey the hard realities of what is going on.

* Be realistic. Recognize that the world has changed, in some ways irreversibly, and that the past was far from perfect. Avoid being trapped solely into reacting and defending the status quo. Defending the past for its own sake adds credibility to the claims of the right and wastes opportunities to work for genuine change.

* Be pro-active. Start rethinking visions, strategies and models of development for the future. Show that there are workable, preferable alternatives from the start. This becomes progressively more difficult the longer you wait to respond to the corporate agenda.

* Challenge the TINA (�there is no alternative�) claim. Convince people--individually and collectively--that there are real and workable alternatives. Present options that combine realism with the prospect of meaningful change. Actively promote these alternatives and have them ready to be implemented when the corporate agenda fails.

* Promote participatory democracy. Build a constituency for change through alternative information networks and media. Use community, workplace, women�s, church, union, First Nations and other outlets to encourage people to take back control. Empower them with the knowledge they need to understand the right-wing forces affecting them and how they can fight back most effectively.

* Hold the line. The corporate takeover is not yet complete. Social programs have not yet been entirely dismantled. Unions have not yet been destroyed. Not all environmental protections have been eliminated. There is still time, through sustained and co-ordinated action, to hold the line.


From The CCPA Monitor

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orpupilofnature57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-17-07 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Avoid Anti-Intellectualism , All of them were great, that one is the best.
Edited on Wed Jan-17-07 06:10 PM by orpupilofnature57
Carl Sagan's ' Baloney test Kit ' is a great tool .http://users.tpg.com.au/users/tps-seti/baloney.html
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A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-17-07 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Instead of editing my post I'll applaud yours....
:applause: :applause:

I like that piece. Nice. Thanks for posting it.
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