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Prohibit employers from offering health care. That's how we get National Health Care

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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 05:53 AM
Original message
Prohibit employers from offering health care. That's how we get National Health Care
Think about it.

The "ones who have it" are griping about the escalation of their share of coverage.
the bosses who offer it use it as a wedge to keep good employees, and to offer less in actual wages, because they can always rationalize raises away with the cost of health care.

Employees who are scared to death of losing their coverage make great employees because their very lives may depend on keeping that job.

People are afraid to start their own businesses because they cannot afford to have their families without coverage while they nurture a start-up business that may take a few years to get going.

People are stuck in high cost areas of the country when they might dearly love to move away, and quit commuting...BUT they dare not quit because of the health care coverage.

People without health care are costing companies lots of money in training spent on them, only to see them as perpetual "transient labor"...always looking for that better job that "may" give them health care.

Bosses complain that they cannot be "competitive" and must off shore because of the hight cost of health care.

Companies that may want to locate in the US, use the health care issue to opt out.

It's time to think outside the box.

As long as "it's up to the employer", our health care will always be inefficient and spotty.

Set a future date when all employer offered /job related health care ENDS, and you WILL see some congressional action.. You MIGHT even see lots of 50-somethings in suits..marching on DC.

Employers love to tell their employees how "$10 an hour of your compensation is 'my' share of your health care"..so let's see them put their money where their mouths are. With no more premiums to pay, that worker's wages should increase by $10 an hour.

Employers who never paid health care, and also paid less per hour to their employees, might suddenly see a workforce that is more willing to bolt and go elsewhere, to those other places that are now able to pay more per hour.

Employees would finally be "in the game" for real. They would be trading 8 hours of labor for a check for a job done. No more nosy boss who wants to know about your private health issues. No more reason for a boss to "not hire someone because he fears his rates might go up..let's say "older" employees.

And a side benefit for all of the employers..less paperwork

We are all held hostage to our healthcare or the perpetual search for a job with health care or better health care.

It's an oddity to begin with, since it was only offered in the first place as a "loophole" in wage & price freezes of the past. It should have ended with the phasing out of those freezes, but back then it was cheap, and most people could still afford to see a doctor with or without insurance.

Before people hire a hit man to kill me for daring to say this, I KNOW it would be a tumultuous change-over, but it will take a BOLD move like this to get congress to be serious about the issue.

THEIR friends and compatriots and donors are of the class that HAS insurance, but once it's "against the law" for employers to offer coverage, a whole lot of them will be lighting the torches and grabbing for the pitchforks..

My guess is that if this were to happen, we would have national health care in very little time...I also think that there would be a new golden age of entrepreneurship, when people would finally feel free to start their own businesses.

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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 05:58 AM
Response to Original message
1. What an ass backwards way to go. Truly.
But I do believe that the way we must sell national health is by insisting that health care must be lifted off the back of business so that America can be strong and competitive in the free world again. And then say all that stuff you said.
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monarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 06:07 AM
Response to Original message
2. Good thought.
Edited on Sun Jan-14-07 06:09 AM by monarch
"Prohibit" is probably too strong a word but I'm sure that there are ways to provide disincentives. I spent my career as a state employee and progressed from a situation of having others in my profession look down on me because of my lousy salary to outright envy over my vacation, holiday and sick time, excellent health care benefits and great pension. The state provided those benefits not because it was magnanimous but because it was much cheaper to do it than to pay good salaries. Once the benefits had been offered, the unions (God bless unions!) kept the state from reneging on them during the course of my employment.
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luckyleftyme2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. GREAT POST

WISH YOU WOULD POST THIS IN THE MAINE DU-WE SURE NEED IT NOW
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monarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Actually looking for property in Maine right now.
Contributed to Equality Maine and have several friends(and relatives) who are year round residents. Would be happy to leave CT for property on the ocean someplace.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 06:25 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. Think back to the "no smoking" issues. There was no "disincentive" opiton offered
Edited on Sun Jan-14-07 06:26 AM by SoCalDem
and that's because a "voluntary" ban does not work. It has to be across the board..everybody in or it will still end up a frayed patchwork.
Health care must be totally separate from your job.

I do agree that businesses should shoulder some of the overall costs, but that should be addressed through taxes, liek it would be for the rest of us.

We have to move back to "the commons" sort of thinking or this will never get done.
the way it is now, it's moving more and more to a "who 'deserves' it" method

truth be told EVERYONE deserves it..9even the people who eat too many pizzas, or the people who don't exercise, or the people who (horrors) smoke or the people who drink, or the people who have "exciting" hobbies..

It should NOT be up to your boss to decide whether you are "worthy" of insurance or whether you are worthy of even being hired in the first place (if you might cost the company more for insurance).
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. my husband provides health care not cause of greed, but because
he feels that is his responsibility as an employer, so i dont think it fair you imply the reasons is always greed, firstly. and it has gone up so much for a year he has been saying he needs to trash it, give everyone a raise and let them get it themselves. he still feels a moral obligation to provide for employees. the one employee that doesnt need healthcare because they use his wife's healthcare that is much better, becasue larger company can get a better one cheaper, .... he pays the difference in wage. not ALL business owners are greedy, corrupt and unethical. the current attitude i often find on this board

recently i have read two articles. brittians blare and australia wanting to deny smoker health care because they do it to themselves ergo dont deserve. i read many on this board aggressively promoting this attitude which leaves me to consider wiht the outrageously stupid and anti behavior to smoking here in the u.s. we would easily go to that if our govt had control of our healthcare. i could see them also easily go against those that are obese, non active, druggies or alcoholics. i believe all should have access, regardless, including those genetically made up with more health care issues than any smoker, alcoholic or druggie put together. i am finding it hard here lately to endorse a govt healthcare. i do not trust my fellow american to look out for my need for healthcare, along with others in our society. i wont support govt run healthcare until i am comfortable the majority stand for ALL (universal) all have a rght to health care.
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 06:10 AM
Response to Original message
3. Business needs to make a contribution to Universal Health Care, if
for no other reason that a significant number of disabilities are from work related injuries. Industries that do not comply with keeping a safe work environment, those which require repetitive movements or exposure to toxins, high voltage, etc., do need to incur some expense for the care of injured employees.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 06:19 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Work related health issues/workers' compensation would be separate
as it is now in most cases.
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cyclezealot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 06:23 AM
Response to Original message
6. healthcare rising double the rate of inflation.
Few, very few employers will soon be able to pay for health insurance. Large companies like Dupont, I have read will have no benefit package for new employees. SO how can less affluent companies continue this benefit package. At the rate it is going, less than half the American public will have health care.
Of course the Repuke plan. Employers can't afford health insurance, then the American public must buy it at their own expense. Even required like auto insurance. Employers can't afford the $700 a month, individuals surely can't . Many cites rent is cheaper than that.
Health insurance and pensions must be nationalized. That way we have a degree of public control. THen employers and employees contribute a portion like most civilized countries of the world.
If the national government won't rescure it's people, then the only control we have is to promote universal health insurance through our state governments, be it the legislature or initiative. Sooner or later the people will have had enough with the greedy insruance companies.
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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
10. This seems like one of those
highly counter-intuitive "stop the war by enacting a draft" sort of idea. I think we can solve problems without making life worse for everyone in the meantime.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
11. Candidate: Stupidest Post of 2007
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
12. As long as you're in a prohibitionist mood, why not just prohibit insurance
companies from the health-care field? They are the sole reason we pay so much more, and receive less, than any other nation on earth.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
13. Perhaps companies might then be willing to hire employees older than 50, too.
It's appalling how many companies refuse to employ older workers - "over-qualified" is the most oft-cited excuse. On top of this, layoffs and RIFs disproportionally cull the herd of the older workers - those with the most experience, of course. The younger up-and-comers love it. (Who wants to wade through all the "dead wood" on their way to the top, after all?)

It's always amazed me how huge the health care insurance 'benefit' has factored into employment in the US. In the 70s and 80s, the Japanese and Germans kicked our asses in cost-effective manufacturing with their far superior national health care systems and far more rational exploitation of their most experienced employees. Then corporate greed discovered Mexico ... and Singapore and Malaysia and India and Bangladesh and China. Better no health care at all than national health care. :puke:

I often think that medical care skyrocketed solely because of insurance - insurance without a proportional (percentage) co-pay that at least exposed the costs to the insured.

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WhaTHellsgoingonhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
14. Single-Payer Health Care System
Edited on Sun Jan-14-07 12:15 PM by WhaTHellsgoingonhere
I put this together last spring...because somebody had to. It's a compilation of articles written by NYT OP-ED columnist Paul Krugman.

“American health care is unique among advanced countries in its heavy reliance on the private sector. It’s also uniquely inefficient,” argues Paul Krugman, professor of Economics and International Affairs at Princeton University.

Why is this the case? Special interests and privatization ideology have long colluded to quash reform. Special interests – the American Medical Association, the Health Insurance Association of America, insurance companies – form a powerful lobby that spends millions of dollars to block legislation aimed at providing insurance to the uninsured. Meanwhile, privatization ideologues, whose faith in free markets and continuous demonize of government intervention persists even when evidence points to the contrary.

Myth 1. Americans are lead to believe that we have the best health care system in the world.

Advanced countries, including Germany, France and Canada, spend far less per person for health care than the US. In 2002, the latest year for which comparable data are available, the US spent $5,267 on health care per person, while Canada spent $2,931 and France spent $2,736. Yet, a 2003 study published in Health Affairs found that, while the US scores high on high-tech services, such as MRI’s, on more ordinary measures, like the number of doctors’ visits and number of days spent in hospitals, the US is only average, or below average; identical procedures cost far more in the US than in other advanced countries. And most notably, Americans have lower-life expectancy and higher infant-mortality figures. This administration’s favorite whipping-boy, France, consistently ranks much better on most measures of health care quality than the US.

Waiting lists, which vary in length from country to country, are often offset by one’s inability to find adequate on-demand care in the States.

Taiwan, which has a population and economy similar to ours, moved from a US-style health care system to a Canadian-style single-payer system a decade ago. In 1995, less than 60 percent of Taiwan’s residents had health insurance; by 2001 the number was 97 percent. A careful study published in Health Affairs concluded that this huge expansion in coverage came virtually free due to rising population and incomes.

Finally, Health Affairs found that the medical experience of sicker adults in six countries, including Canada, Britain, Germany and the US, don’t support claims about superior service from the US system. Most notable here, Americans are far more likely than others to forgo treatment because they can’t afford it. Forty percent of Americans surveyed failed to fill a prescription because of cost. A third were deterred by cost from seeing a doctor when sick or from getting recommended tests or follow-ups. As a result, many Americans end up disabled or dead.

Myth 2. The unimpeded competition of free markets will produce the best outcome.

Currently, 46 million Americans are uninsured. The Commonwealth Fund, a nonpartisan organization that studies health care, found that 41 percent of nonelderly American adults with incomes between $20,000 and $40,000 were without health insurance for all or part of 2005. How can this be? Employment-based health insurance is the only serious source of coverage for Americans too young to receive Medicare and insufficiently destitute to receive Medicaid. But good insurance is hard to come by, because private markets are driven by adverse selection, in which bad risks drive out good. Consequently, insurance companies devote a lot of effort and money screening applicants, selling insurance only to those considered unlikely to have high costs, while rejecting those with pre-existing conditions or other indicators of high future expenses. In fact, due to administrative costs associated with the screening process and advertising, insurers spend less than 80 cents of each dollar on health insurance.

Of the $5,267 the US spends per person, $2,364, or 45 percent is spent by the government, not private insurers (compare that to $2,048 per person spent by the Canadian government; and $2,080 per person spent by the French government).

Needless to say, American health care is desperately in need of reform. Ironically, there exists a single-payer success story in the US. The Veterans Health Administration is one of the best-kept secrets in the health care debate. Overcoming years of a tarnished reputation of bureaucracy, inefficiency and mediocre care, reforms beginning in the mid-1990’s transformed the system, and the VA’s success in improving quality, safety and value has allowed it to emerge as a leader in health care.

Last year, customer satisfaction with VA health care as measured by an annual survey conducted by the National Quality Research Center, exceeded that for private health care for the sixth year in a row. The secret of its success is the fact that it’s a universal, integrated system. Because it covers all veterans, the system doesn’t need to employ legions of administrative staff to check patients’ coverage. Nor is it burdened with advertising costs incurred by private insurers. And because it covers all aspects of medical care, it has been able to take the lead in electronic record-keeping and other cost reducing innovations. The VA avoids dealing with insurance companies and is in a better position to bargain hard with medical suppliers, and pays far less for drugs than most private insurers. In short, cost saving practices employed by single-payer providers, like the VA or Medicare, can allow them to spend as much as 98 cents of each dollar on medical care.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-14-07 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
15. BAD BAD BAD IDEA
Kind of like let poverty levels rise to the level of Biafra to ignite a Bolshivek Revolution.
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