GM: Chevy Volt plug-in hybrid electric car

[midnight armadillo]

http://www.jalopnik.com/cars/detroit-auto-show/gms-personal-jesus-the-chevy-volt-electric-concept-car-226687.php



Features: 1L turbo 3-cyl engine for battery charging. 40 mile range on Li-ion batteries, or 50 mpg when running the engine to provide current and battery charging. 640 mile range with engine. With plug-in charging, fuel efficiences of 150+ mpg are possible.

Caveat, quote:"A technological breakthrough required to make this concept a reality is a large lithium-ion battery. This type of electric car, which the technical community calls an "EV range-extender," would require a battery pack that weighs nearly 400 pounds (181 kg). Some experts predict that such a battery - or a similar battery - could be production-ready by 2010 to 2012."

[Ian David]

1. Don't care. Chevy is dead to me. They're too late for redemption. n/t

[DainBramaged]

4. So what, you hate them, now go away America hater

[Pavulon]

25. Yeah, screw those union jobs that

support middle class households. You post deserves a rethink.

[Guaranteed]

28. Yeah, don't bother trying to fix it now! nt

[Drifter]

2. Nice ...

but it looks stupid.

I like the power management features.

Cheers
Drifter

[DainBramaged]

7. It's a CONCEPT vehicle, not a PRODUCTION vehicle

Read the article

[Toots]

22. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder

I think it looks really cool. I don't like the forty mile range without having to use gasoline though...

[Book Lover]

47. It's a hybrid, not pure electric

And a concept car, too. Just GM dipping their toes in the water...

[Cobalt-60]

3. Theyre stalling

This tech is ready now.

[DainBramaged]

5. You line up the parts suppliers at a reasonable cost

[dogindia]

24. it was ready long ago...EV1 crushers.

[salin]

6. very glad to see what is coming down the pike.

I'll keep enjoying the hybrid until cars such as these (if they are of comparable quality - lets assume they will be) are available to the public.

[goddess40]

12. If they come down the pike - remember Ford's promise

they were going to have a entire series of hybrid cars and then decided to shit can the whole plan and stay with the gas guzzlers.

I'll believe it when I see it until then I'll keep driving my prius from a company that values quality.

The American car companies have spent too much on funneling money out the top instead of reinvesting in keeping up with what the world needs and laughing all the way to the bank guilting people into buying American (crap).

I'll gladly buy American when their product is equal to the Toyota's I currently drive.

[neoblues]

8. How about a road rocket all electric...

Tesla Roadster. 0..60 in about 4 seconds!

[Johnny Noshoes]

10. Damn

I was composing my post probably just as you were posting yours. That Tesla is cool ain't it.

[Johnny Noshoes]

9. The Tesla Roadster

Yeah its a high end "boutique" car but its real, it runs on Li ion batteries only and gets 250 MILES on a charge. Its an all electric sports roadster so no its not a family car and yes its pricey. The concept works and I'm willing to bet that it can be made to work in a family car for city driving and short range travel.

NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders, Agent Mike of the National Security Agency may have read this electronic communication without warning, warrant, or notice. He can do this without any judicial or legislative oversight. You have no recourse nor protection save to call for the impeachment of the current President.

[GaYellowDawg]

15. LOL... you and neoblues beat me to it while I was writing!

I'm glad to see people bringing Tesla up. If I could afford one I'd buy it in a cold heartbeat.

[RC]

17. Only 250 miles on a charge? How long

does it take to fully charge this vehicle? I'd like to get back without an motel bill while I'm waiting to recharge it. Make the range at least 350 miles, then come see me. Does it have a heater for those cold, cold +20°F winters in North Dakota or A/C for the rest of the year?

[Johnny Noshoes]

18. Check post # 14

and this web site www.teslamotors.com/index.php?js_enabled=1

[GaYellowDawg]

19. Answers:

Full charge in about 4 hours. It also comes with a mobile charging unit so that you can use any outlet to charge it. It has both heating units and A/C units. It really is a luxury sports car with all the perks.

To me, the best thing is that they just take existing battery tech and apply it - they say at one point on their webpage that they're content to let the computer and cell phone industries do battery research for them. It's a safe bet that as those industries improve their batteries, Tesla car ranges will improve. Check out their webpage; I found it really impressive.

http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php?js_enabled=1

[POAS]

37. They claim

a recharge time of 3.5 hours using the home charger. I imagine using the built in one will take longer.

[RC]

46. So I am sitting in the parking lot 150 miles from home with no

way to recharge enough to get back. This town rolls up the sidewalks at 6:00 PM. This is not a optional/pleasure trip either. It is either out and back in a day or go on for another 50 miles and stay in a motel and come back the next day, which then loses me 2 days of work.

Electrics are fine around town and the daily commute. But for any out of town travel, hybrids are the way to go.

[POAS]

38. I just read a review in

"Automobile" magazine. They were very impressed by its performance due to its excellent torgue which kicks in immediately.

[JNelson6563]

11. The more the merrier

I think GM will step up the progress of this project when markets make it clear they have no choice.

Julie

[B Calm]

13. 3 to 5 years to make a battery ready for production. Why so long?

[GaYellowDawg]

16. They make lots of money from maintenance and auto parts.

Lots more things to wear down in internal combustion engines than in electric. They're not interested in losing that money right away. They'd rather stretch it out as long as possible.

[GaYellowDawg]

14. Honestly, I'm not that impressed.

There's a startup company out in CA that is making a pure electric sports car that does 0-60 in about 4 seconds, gets about 250 miles per charge, and does a charge in about 4 hours. None of this hybrid BS, which is just a way of keeping oil dependency going.

Unfortunately, it has a base price of $90,000. The company says that it will take profits from the people who buy these (and there's already an almost 2 year waiting list) and make a more affordable family sedan.

http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php?js_enabled=1

When someone posted about this company in the past, some people talked it down, calling it a rich person's toy. Well, whether or not you like the idea, or the company, Tesla Motors does a very valuable thing: it demonstrates that the big auto manufacturers are lying about needing to develop new battery technology.

The Tesla people say that instead of trying to develop new battery tech, they simply took existing battery technology that had been developed by the laptop/cell phone industries and used it. Instead of one huge battery, lots of little ones. It's got a range of 100,000 miles before dropping from peak performance.

All the major auto companies could do this if they wanted to. They don't. With their dependency on the internal combustion engine, the auto companies get to keep up the auto parts industry. I'd love to see Tesla go big and bury them.

[Nay]

20. Thank you! My 1st Q is why the Chevy battery goes 40 mi, and the

Tesla battery goes 250! One would think a major auto manufacturer would be ashamed to bring out a car that was already basically obsolete, or not up to the standards/power/range of a car made by an upstart car company.

[Pavulon]

27. 90K I will buy something else

now for normal people 30k for a reliable car is high end. 20k is good. However GM will take time to do this because they have to have a parts structure for the platform.

I'd love to see the auto industry respond to market force and lots of people keep their jobs.

I choose biodiesel. Next car is a jetta tdi.

Biodiesel is a great system and has significant impact on farming and corn as a commodity. In 10 years it could become what oil is now. It would be nice for farmers to benefit from this market.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

21. Yeah, right. I'll believe it when I see it.

See "Who Killed the Electric Car" if you want to know how GM really feels about it. This thing will never see the light of day unless everyone suddenly stops buying gas cars.

[IDemo]

23. Word association is too strong now: "GM" + "electric"......."crusher"

Although I'm glad GM hasn't abandoned EV's! This is the direction auto companies should be taking, rather than fuel-cell/hydrogen.

And, while I love the Tesla and the PML Mini QED Mini Cooper (below), I don't think four second zero to sixty times are what green-minded car buyers are after. Try cutting the power output of either of these vehicles to ¼ of their current output, and you'll get real-world performance plus greater range at a fraction of the cost.

[Peggy Day]

33. I would like 0-60 in 4 seconds.

I drive a prius, and although I like it, I miss the V8 power. Or even V6.

[IDemo]

26. more on the concept

This concept is much like the TZero, which had the option of a "Genset" (pictured below), a gasoline powered generator on a trailer. GM has just moved the genset where it belongs, on the car. The question would be, is the efficiency of the 1 liter recharging motor equal to what it would be if applied directly to the drivetrain, as in a traditional hybrid like the Prius?

[Strelnikov_]

34. My Preference Has Been A 'Genset' Trailer Approach

to lower the initial EV cost and the weight the EV drags around.

Thanks for the picture, I did not know anyone had produced one. Provides a performance 'data point'.

If the engine can be made light enough, with regenrative braking the energy lost due to dragging around the engine in EV mode could be insignificant. I have been wondering if air-cooling is a possibility to further reduce weigh, since the ICE would only be used intermittently and at speed.

I have seen rumors that the drivetrain on the next Prius will weigh 1/2 of the current model (air-cooled engine?).

Bottom line, though, is that we have options available, today, for greatly reducing our use of transportation energy. All we now need is the political will to mandate change. If we wait for the 'market signal', it will be too late.

[Gregorian]

29. People! It's not the car. It's the way we generate power.

The car is not the solution to the problem.

We have to find a way to generate power without creating carbon dioxide. Until then, talking about car designs is absolutely worthless. In fact, an electric car right now is actually worse than doing what we are presently doing. What comes out of a coal fired power plant is far worse than what is coming out of our exhaust pipes.


Edit- Making an internal combustion engine more efficient would be worth talking about. You get the idea. I'm not saying it's all not worth doing. But the emphasis must be on the problem.

[dogindia]

30. yes. yes. yes. new power base is needed.

Energy from the vacuum. Or whatever . It has to be there. Look at how a seed becomes a tomato or a tree. But is mankind ready for all that power? Would they just mow down more trees and habitat and create more suburban development and ....?

New power base coupled with new ethics and COMPASSION and a new lifestyle that celebrates and enjoys beyond measure the fundamental beauties of the natural world

True happiness.

[IDemo]

32. Not entirely true

I am as anti-coal as they come, and look for much greater expansion of solar thermal and wind alternatives. But a "Well to wheels" analysis of electric vehicles does not support the "you're only moving the problem from tailpipe to smokestack" argument:

EVs reduce CO2 by 11%-100% compared with ICEs and by 24%-54% compared with
HEVs, and significantly reduce all other greenhouse gas emissions, using the U.S. grid
mix. If all U.S. cars were EVs, we’d reduce global warming emissions. Using
electricity strictly from coal, EVs still would reduce CO2 by 0%-59% compared with
ICEs (one analysis found 0% change; six others found reductions of 17%-59%) and
might produce 30%-49% more CO2 than HEVs (based on only two analyses). On the
other hand, if electricity comes from solar or wind power, EVs eliminate all emissions.
Using natural gas to make electricity, emissions fall in between those from coal and
renewable power.
As for criteria air pollutants – the emissions that cause smog or acid rain – the data are
mixed on whether using electricity for fuel would create more or less emissions
compared with using gasoline. In either case, however, these emissions won’t
necessarily enter the atmosphere. (See final paragraph of summary.) Most analyses of
criteria pollutants look only at EVs and ICEs; numbers for PHEVs or HEVs may be
based on only one study.

http://www.pluginamerica.com/images/EmissionsSummary.pdf

[Strelnikov_]

40. Seconded.

ICE ~ 13% efficient 'well to wheel' using fossil energy source (probably liberal).
EV ~ 65% efficient 'well to wheel' (following chart indicates 69%).
w/ coal as source for energy carrier at 40%, 26% efficient using fossil energy source.

26/13 ~ 50% of greenhouse gas production.

Additional benefit of EV's are that they can be efficiently powered from renewable sources. I have yet to see a renewable liquid fuel that is anywhere near as efficient.

[Gregorian]

48. Large, stationary power plants are an improvement.

My fear is that we are not placing emphasis on the most important part of this equation. Of course more efficient power generation facilities are cleaner than small, independent internal combustion engines. You can't do any worse than those. And electric cars have the potential for being the ultimate in clean transportation, when we find a way to generate cleanly. Locating the source of pollution to a centralized area is also a great benefit.

Where are the leaders!? We have had too many George Bushes in this country. We'd rather fight than switch. And now we're quickly running out of time, literally.

The car is the easy part. We had electric cars decades ago.

[IDemo]

49. There is another part of the equation that is rarely mentioned in EV articles

Virtually all new battery-electric and plug in hybrids have Vehicle to Grid (V2G) capabilities built in. The TZero from AC Propulsion is (or was) V2G ready, and the Obvio 828e from Brazil will be as well.

"As cars and light trucks begin a transition to electric propulsion, powered by batteries, engines, or fuel cells, there is potential for a synergistic connection between such vehicles and the electric power grid. The aggregate power rating of the US vehicle fleet is much larger than the total US generating capacity. If even a small fraction of vehicles could be harnessed as generating assets, benefits would accrue both to the electric power grid and to the vehicle owners. The potential exists for the economic value generated to significantly offset the costs of electric, hybrid, and fuel cell vehicles."

more --> http://www.acpropulsion.com/Veh_Grid_Power/Veh_grid_power.htm

[GaYellowDawg]

50. Huge reduction in point sources. Agreed. nm

[SoCalDem]

31. Finally.. an efficient car for the masses & the environment..

but wait...

it appears to be just another "toy" for the Richie Rich guys ..

Odd, isn't it?

Years ago when there seemed to really be such a car for the masses, small efficient, and well-loved by the "testers", it was grabbed back from all of them, and crushed..

It's all about the money, folks..

Poor people will always drive old cars..It's a fact of life.. Drive through any lower-middle class/poor neighborhood, and count the number of new/newer, fuel-efficent, enviro-freindly, or hybrids..... should be a very fast trip, requiring no paper & pen to log them all.

You WILL see many '80's and older cars in various states of disrepair because that;s all they can AFFORD to buy..

[Ron Green]

41. My observation, though, has been that a sizeable percentage of working-class people

have spent $35,000 and more on big pickups (and fewer SUV's) they don't need for hauling. I'm not sure that small, efficient cars will sell well to moderate- and low-income groups until there's a change in the macho and fear-based attitude that's been sold to the masses.

[GaYellowDawg]

51. Bingo.

Ask any good ole boy to give up his Dodge Ram or Ford F-150 for an electric car that tops out at 50 mph with sluggish acceleration, and if he doesn't shoot you or beat you up, he'll laugh at you.

I don't know why there's this attitude that the ideal car looks something like this



and accelerates like it's stuck in one of the La Brea tar pits.

I completely agree with the Tesla people when they said it was like electric vehicles were made with punishing their drivers for driving in mind. If you have an electric vehicle that goes 60 miles to the charge, tops out at 50 mph, and looks like crap, it doesn't matter if you sell it for $9,999, people aren't going to buy it. And if they're desperate enough to, they'll trade up ASAP.

Be REAL. Americans like cars that look good, accelerate, and have high top end speeds. As long as "electric car" means "ugly and slow," Americans are going to reject them, period.

[Ron Green]

52. Right. But part of my point is that Americans need to get a better idea about what a good car is.

An F-150 or a Suburban will do a couple of things very well, but most people don't have to do those things very often. Most good ol' boys who buy a new pickup truck use it to make a statement about themselves rather than to carry lots of large or heavy items. It would make more sense for most people to rent a truck when they need one, and learn to drive a small, efficient car without worrying about their manhood.

[Atman]

35. Why will it take so long to develop a freakin' battery?

Lithium-ion batteries aren't new. Why will it take up to five years just to make a bigger one?

.

[rpgamerd00d]

36. Big Question: How much $ does it cost in electricity to charge it each night?

Without that number, one cannot compare it to gas prices.

[lectrobyte]

39. The plug-in Prius conversions are getting 100 MPG on the street now.

More day-late and dollar-short FUD from GM.

[dpbrown]

42. Vaporware from companies trying to fend off mandatory fuel efficiency increases

"Quick, let's hawk cars we can't build so the government won't make us build cars we can!"

[DainBramaged]

43. Just another I hate domestic union made car thread (as usual)

You all are undeserving of the luxury you enjoy. You make me cringe when I realize I associate with such hating people.

[high density]

44. Worst of both worlds

Not only do you get to fill it up with gas, you can plug it in and feed the power company's coffers as well... Come on.

Bring on the hydraulic hybrid already.

[eppur_se_muova]

45. I hate Windows(TM), but what do they have against windows ?

Aren't you supposed to be able to see OUT of the car?