If the US were to get some form of universal health care such as single payer,

[Poiuyt]

what would happen to all the insurance companies and the people who work for them?

[annabanana]

1. They could be "retrained"

Like all the people whose jobs have gone to China..

[mnhtnbb]

2. Ding Ding Ding! That's a winner

[Jackpine Radical]

3. If the horseless carriage were ever to catch on,

what would happen to the buggy whip manufacturers, the horseshit sweepers, the horse shoers...

[Tesha]

27. The Horseshit Sweepers obviously became Republican Politicians...

The Horseshit Sweepers obviously became Republican Politicians
and lobbyists.

Tesha

[leftofthedial]

4. they'd find good-paying jobs

in the unprecedented economic boom that would follow such a scenario

[pitohui]

5. you know what, who cares?

i should not have to shoot myself at age 50 to keep from beggaring my family so a billion-dollar insurance company can keep robbing the people and destroying our middle class families forever

they are welcome to get honest jobs, if they would rather continue to pillage, loot, and kill, then they can go to prison

how many of our people kill themselves upon finding they have a serious illness to keep from beggaring their families? how many families have to give up their house, their children's education, and their hope of any future because someone falls ill? how many people have been told they can't have a needed surgery or transplant because their insurance coverage ain't good enough, so they are left to die stone cold dead

the people who work for these companies and the companies themselves are criminals who hold people hostage for their very lives

i don't have an ounce of pity for them, esp. since we all know they will waltz away w. billions

[RobofSWVA]

6. billions eh?

I made $20,000 last year. I would like some of those billions please.

[bullimiami]

7. the government has sold our entire country out to the insurance industries.

and in turn they have destroyed the health care system, housing, businesses and anything else they have been allowed to.

[drm604]

13. I work for such a company.

I needed a job and I needed medical coverage and this was what I could find. I can assure you that I am not "waltzing away with billions". I'm an employee with salary and benefits like anyone else, and that's it. :eyes:

I support single-payer health-care even if it means I lose my job. At least I'll have health care while looking for a new job and, as leftofthedial says, the economic boom that may follow should make it possible for me to find new work.

[endarkenment]

21. You aren't but the owners and officers are.

For example:

William W McGuire
Total Compensation: $124.8 mil (#3)
5-Year Compensation Total: $342,284 thou

William W McGuire has been CEO of UnitedHealth Group (UNH) for 14 years. Dr. McGuire has been with the company for 17 years . The 57 year old executive ranks 1 within Health care equipment & services

http://www.forbes.com/static/pvp2005/LIRRI3M.html

I do care about the jobs that will be lost, but the corrupt rent extraction has to end.

[rock]

22. ditto

Same deal and comments with me.

[salin]

30. I would guess that you, and many like you, would be desirable

employees of what ever entity (govt? private/public?) replaces the current system. I don't think that jobs disappear - they would likely become 'reallocated' - that is move over into the sector that provides the services.

[liberalhistorian]

53. There were times when I was desperate for

a job and benefits as well, and I still turned down job offers from collection agencies and foreclosure/collection law firms. You shouldn't have to screw people over all day just to put food on the table.

[drm604]

58. EXCUSE ME, BUT I AM NOT SCREWING PEOPLE OVER!

Should all employees of health insurance companies quit their jobs? Then no one would get health care. I suppose that would make you happy, but a lot of other people wouldn't be too happy about that.

I work for one of the better insurers. I have health needs myself, and some of them are pretty expensive, and this company has never denied any of my claims. Before you say it, this is not because I work for them. I had them as my insurer with my last employer (not an insurance company) and they treated me just as well then. They are not comparable to a foreclosure/collection firm!

Yes, I want to see universal single payer health care in this country but until then the insurance companies are all we have, and in all respect to your sensibilities I'd like to have the health coverage that enables me to stay alive. I will not sacrifice my health and possibly my life just to satisfy you.

No one is being harmed by my employment in the IT department of this company.

I can't believe what I'm seeing in this thread. :banghead:

[liberalhistorian]

62. If you work for a health insurance company, then

you are aiding and abetting in their screwing people over, it's just that simple. Machines cannot function without ALL of their parts, no matter how small, and the same is true for companies.

So, no one would have health care, eh? Well, hate to burst your bubble, but millions have no health care now and millions more are being denied desperately-needed care that bean counters deem "unnecessary" even if it would save their lives, and millions more are having to make the decision between paying for food/rent or health care/insurance premiums. And all because we have a health care system in this country that puts profits before people and their lives, caused largely by for-profit health insurance companies. And, ironically enough, such companies actually drive up the cost of health care with "middleman" billing, administrative and paperwork costs.

So cry me a freaking river, why don't you? And please don't try to tell me that your being an employee had nothing to do with none of your claims being denied. Those of us who have to constantly deal with the bean counters at DenialCare, Inc., even for simple shit that should easily be covered, and those of us who've watched friends, family and co-workers fight with them through illnesses or injuries, know better. A lot better.

[drm604]

65. Oh for Christ's sake.

You're not bursting any freaking bubbles. I'm fully aware of the suffering in this country and I find it very hard to believe that you honestly thought that I wasn't aware of it, so I can't figure out why you would even say that except perhaps to grandstand and have the last word in this ridiculous argument. Have you read any of my posts in this thread? I'd gladly lose my job to see universal health care instituted in this country.

The company I work for is very good about paying claims, I know this from personal experience. I'm sure they're not 100% perfect, nothing is in this life, but universal care would also be imperfect and would also deny claims. It would be infinitely better than what we have now, for a lot of reasons, but it would not be perfect and it would at times deny claims.

Are you part of the war machine? Have you paid your taxes? If you have then I guess you're a part of the war machine. To paraphrase you, machines cannot function without ALL of their parts, no matter how small, and the same is true for governments and militaries.

What other machines are you a part of? What kind of job do you have? Who do you work for?

Do you vilify people in real estate because not everyone has a home? Do you vilify grocery clerks because people are hungry?

When you're ready to deny yourself or your sick child health care because others don't have it, when you're ready to live in the street because not everyone has a home, when you're ready to go hungry because not everyone has enough to eat, when you're ready to stop posting on DU because not everyone has a computer, and when you're ready to go to jail for not paying your taxes, then come back and talk to me.

Until then, we all need to stick together to fight against the evils in this country rather than split apart over some ridiculous caricature of ideological purity.

I've always felt free to speak out on DU and I've never been attacked like this for it. I'll probably be more careful about what I post in the future, and that's a sad thing.

Now you'll probably come along and post another "cry me a river" thread full of straw-men and bad logic and that's your right.

[liberalhistorian]

66. Actually, I work for an attorney

who provides badly-needed legal services on an Indian reservation. Before that, I worked for a legal services agency that mostly assisted desperate native americans, including sick people being hounded by hospitals for money they simply didn't have.

And realtors are not active in denying homes to people and grocers are not active in denying food to people, like insurance companies do with health care. I don't know what insurance company you work for, but if it's indeed true, as you say, that it has a good history of paying claims, then it's too bad there aren't more of them and that I or my family haven't been lucky enough to have a similar one.

[liberalhistorian]

49. Well-put,

thank you!

[midnight]

64. You know what you are talking about. We are trying to get a

c-pap machine. It has been denied repeatedly. All the insurance co. pay for is cheap pills.

[xultar]

8. I'm sure they could move over to property insurance and continue the shafting.

Different racket same skill.

[liberalhistorian]

12. Or become debt collectrolls,

which they're particularly well-suited for, anyway. Hounding sick people for money they don't have would fit right in with their nature.

Fuck the health insurance companies and those who work for them. They think nothing of screwing over honest, hard-working people who have the misfortune to become ill, coming up with all kinds of bullshit ways to not pay the medical bills when customers have paid premiums for years, all the while enriching themselves. And THEY will never have to worry about their own health care needs being covered.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Joe Bacon]

28. And how many people have you denied health care to?

The same kind of beancounters who denied my mother the brain surgery she desperately needed? The same ones who saw no wrong in continually letting her vegetate till she died?

[CTguy78]

31. Not one......

I don't see that side of the business and Im sorry about your mother. I underwrite the stuff, I figure out how much to charge the employers. But I can tell you that there are thousands upon thousands of good people that work for health insurance companies....and they arent all rich, twirling their mustache laughing at the deaths of those that are sick.

[Lars39]

33. I hope they realize how many people do not have any coverage at all,

or have minimal coverage only...coverage that bankrupt even those who think they have "good" health insurance.

[CTguy78]

34. And how is that my fault??

How can I control who gets health insurance as an employee of a health insurance company?? Indirectly we all pay for the uninsured.......If someone hasd a heart atatck and is in intensive care for a week, we all end up paying for it through increased premiums. Its a big problem, but no one individual or industry is to blame.

[Lars39]

36. Ever heard of Bill Frist and HCA?

[CTguy78]

37. Yes, I have

I was in some contracting discussions with HCA actually

[Lars39]

38. Here's a bit of info that seems to go unheard quite a bit:

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:m-Rdajhat7cJ:www.truthdig.com/uncovered/print/ucvd_frist/+Frist+HCA+Medicare+fines&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=4&client=firefox-a

[liberalhistorian]

51. Well, then, maybe we should all just

roll over and die, then, whenever we get sick or injured. Problem solved, profits saved.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

39. Whoever decides that anyone over 55, healthy or not, is

uninsurable at affordable prices IS evil. I'm hardly ever sick, I eat right, and I exercise, and I'm still charged $200 a month for an individual insurance policy that has a $5000 deductible AND pays only 80% after I've met my deductible. (By the way, that IS the preferred price.) An HSA would cost the same per month AND require me to put money into a savings account every month. Whoopee.

I had to raise my deductible to $5000 after I turned 55, because that was the only way I could afford to keep any coverage at all.

I'd have to be really sick to use up my deductible, and then the leeches at the insurance company would probably raise my premiums for actually using their service.

Getting seriously ill would completely wipe out my meagre retirement savings.

I'm too old for affordable private insurance and too young for Medicare, and yes, I AM angry.

[newyawker99]

42. Hi CTguy78!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Greyhound]

44. Were the guards out side the fences at Auschwitz at all responsible for what happened

inside? It is a :dilemma: that many have dealt with through the ages, some of us can't cooperate regardless of circumstance, while others just go along, take the money, and make what rationalizations they have to in order to ignore what they know they are doing.

[liberalhistorian]

50. If you work for the companies, then you're

part of the problem, period. I've seen and experienced first-hand the horrendous damage that's been done by them, and I no longer have any patience at all with the "I'm just doing my job" meme.

[liberalhistorian]

48. Well, I missed the deleted message, but I apparently

ruffled the feathers of either a bean counter or an insurance industry worker. Oh, dear, how terrible that makes me feel! :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

Well, tough shit. If the water's too hot, then get out of it. Try working at a job that actually makes a difference in people's lives instead of screwing them over all the time, denying desperately needed care while not having to worry about it yourself.

[Left Is Write]

41. Wow. It's nice to know how people around here feel about people like my husband.

My husband, who oversees the sales of group health insurance to employers.

My husband, the liberal Democrat who supports universal healthcare even if it means a shift in careers.

My husband, one of those honest, hard-working people.

Did you know that we paid over $10,000 in out-of-pocket expenses for our own health care needs in 2005? On top of our insurance premiums? Yes, we are so very evil.

I suppose I'll decline to invite Mr. LIW to participate here at DU. It's quite clear he wouldn't be welcome.

[liberalhistorian]

47. I'm sorry, but anyone who works for health

insurance companies IS part of the problem. I didn't used to think that way, but seeing what my best friend, my parents, co-workers, and other friends and family have gone through because of the fucking insurance companies has totally changed my outlook.

My best friend would be dead now if her family hadn't had the resources to take out loans to pay for needed cancer treatment that her goddamned insurance company refused to even consider covering, probably because it would eat into the gazillion-dollar bonus the bigwig executives were always demanding. She is now recovered and is a contributing, productive member of society, no thanks to the fucking insurance industry, whose sole purpose is to make money for themselves while denying needed treatment to those who've paid the premiums, many at great cost to themselves.

My uncle and his wife nearly lost their house because their goddamned insurance company nickeled-and-dimed them on coverage for his cancer treatment, treatment some fucking bean counters did not consider "necessary." The hospital filed a lien against their house and they would have lost it had not friends and family done what they could. And all the while, he was fighting for his life and trying to pour all his energy into that, while being hounded by debt collectrolls.

My parents nearly lost their house because their health insurance premiums increased dramatically with no decrease in any other bills, while coverage and co-pays increased drastically. My stepdad has Alzheimer's and the last fucking thing my mom needs to deal with is the goddamned bean counters at DenialCare, Inc., and the fucking medical debt collectrolls.

We are held hostage to what bean counters at insurance companies feel is "necessary", which, translated, simply means what they can get away with NOT paying so as to increase their profits. How many people have needlessly suffered and senselessly died because of it? There is no justification for such bullshit when lives are on the line.

Profit consideration should have NOTHING to do with health care and people's very lives, and yet profit is the end-all and be-all consideration in health care today largely thanks to the insurance and pharmaceutical industries. That is wrong and that is evil, and I will not apologize for the way I feel about the insurance industry and those who work in it in any capacity.

No person's moral worth and worthiness to live should be determined by money and profit considerations. NO ONE. It's just that fucking simple. I don't want to hear any justifications or rationales like "we have to deny desperately needed treatment or premiums will rise", or similar such bullshit. These are people's very lives we're talking about.

And if you work for a company that perpetuates this vicious cycle and participates in deciding who should live or die based on monetary and profit considerations, then you are a part of the problem, period. If people have a problem with that, tough shit. Get another goddamned job and start spending your days actually making a positive difference in people's lives instead of aiding the machine that screws them over.

And I'm not being glib, either. I'm a paralegal who's left jobs and refused job offers because they were nothing but screwing people over all day, i.e., collection/foreclosure law firms or corporations, or collection agencies. One employment screening company I once worked for used medical information gleaned from credit reports to screen out people, which was absolutely wrong and which I hated. I will not spend my days screwing people over or working for companies whose main purpose, like the insurance industry, is screwing people over.

[treestar]

68. No reason to make the issue personal

Nobody is going after you personally. It is way broader than that. Yes you and your husband are perfect people, and your husband should still be employed in a post single-payer nation.

[drm604]

14. I really don't care for these attacks on the employees of the companies.

What would you have us do? Quit our jobs? Would you?

[RobofSWVA]

15. who needs to keep working? I'm in insurance!

Be back later. I'm going to swim in my Scrooge McDuck style money bin. I had a couple billion dollars turned into coins so I could do the backstroke while planning evil ways to steal more and more money from everyone. I'm thinking about opening up a nuclear power plant and getting my name changed to Monty Burns. :sarcasm:

[drm604]

17. What the hell are you talking about?

I'm just an employee like anyone else, I'll never be a millionaire. Why are working people being attacked on DU? Am I misunderstanding your sarcasm?

[RobofSWVA]

18. yes

I'm in the same boat as you. I was implying that we're not all loaded just because we work for an insurance company. :D

[drm604]

20. Sorry about that.

Your sarcasm could be taken a couple of ways. Thanks for your support. It's dismaying to see people on DU attacking working people.

[liberalhistorian]

55. No, but each and every health insurance

company worker is part of the problem, regardless of their role. Period.

[drm604]

60. Fine, we'll all quit our jobs.

Then no one will have any health care. Period. :eyes:

[xultar]

19. Hey I work for an evil empire also. I'm just sayin switch over to property

insurance...different racket same skill.

Hell I've even worked for Phillip Morris!

[liberalhistorian]

54. I did that a couple of times when

I needed a job and benefits, it can be done. I just couldn't take screwing people over all day anymore, or working for companies that did. And I will never sell my soul for any damned company again.

[drm604]

23. Believe me, I'm not entirely happy with my current employment situation.

I took this job when I was laid off a year ago and I feared losing my necessary medical coverage. This is one of the better health insurance companies and they are not-for-profit.
My current day to day office environment has become difficult for me (for reasons unrelated to this thread) and I'm thinking about moving on.
Insurance isn't even really my field. I'm in IT which is applicable to practically any business, and I've worked in a number of different industries.

[NewJeffCT]

45. Property-Casualty Insurance, Life Insurance, supplemental medical...

Annuities,

Disability/Long-Term care insurance (while universal health care will pay for the medical costs, what happens if you have a serious injury and can't work for a year? Or, if you have to undergo chemotherapy and can't work - can you afford the lost wages?)

Group Life insurance
mortgage insurance

A universal health care system likely won't cover every procedure - the supplemental will include additional procedures that may not yet be covered by Medicare for All...

And, if we do get universal health care, they will need more people to administer the system than they currently have. So, at least some accounting/finance types will be able to get jobs for Uncle Same instead of United Health, Aetna, etc.

[Gormy Cuss]

9. They'd change the emphasis of the product lines.

Most sales people and execs will just assume new market lines. MediGap type policies, for example. Underwriters will learn new product lines too, although there may be need for fewer of them. As for the other people, the insurance companies would love to shed the legions of low paid claims processing staff and probably will. Those people will be qualified for jobs in our new national healthcare system -- there will still be a lot of paper pushing --- and also will be qualified for working on other insurance lines or in related fields.

I do anticipate there would be job loss no matter what and it will affect the lowest paid workers disproportionately. It's the hard reality of the situation. If the enabling legislation is constructed to address this issue with retraining and job counseling assistance it could mitigate the effect somewhat.

When I worked in lower tier jobs in the insurance industry the job functions were basically portable skills for office work. Underwriters and programmers should be able to describe their work in terms of portable skills too. That's where job counselors can help.

[LWolf]

10. Insurance companies? I don't know.

The people who work for them? Some would continue to do the same job they are doing now, they'd just have a different boss. Jobs in the health care industry won't disappear because insurance companies no longer hold the purse strings.

[catnhatnh]

11. Didn't McCain say....

...we need more lettuce pickers???

[Yavin4]

16. The Private Insurance Companies Would Still Exist

Much like they do in other countries with a single-payer health system. They'd be extremely expensive. Canada still has private health insurers.

[Nite Owl]

24. There would still be a need

for most of the workers, even if it were government run it would need people to work in administering and for records. It's the CEO's that would need to work though. They could move to India or actually work for a living, that would be one idea. Actually though with their golden parachutes they are set for life and have enough for them and theirs to live off of in interest alone. And they would have health care too so they should be thankful.

[Union Thug]

25. Same thing that happened to the steelworkers, traffic controllers, UAW workers..etc.

But look at it this way, there are plenty of jobs out there! I mean, there are fruit picking jobs paying 20 and 50 dollars per hour, respectively, depending on which repulican asshole you talk to. If nothing else, there is always Walmart.

[bobbolink]

29. I encourage you to read HR 676-- this point is covered there.

Please, I encourage all to actually *read* what the proposal is. Conyers covered this and much more in the writing of HR676, and there is discussion of it at the PNHP website.

I hope you will read about it, and post it here.

Thanks! :hi:

[hunter]

32. If we got rid of the medical insurance companies and the military contractors...

... there would be an economic boom in the United States unprecedented in the history of the world.

Truly innovative and beneficial companies could actually afford to hire people at good wages. We could actually start to build a sustainable society.

[tkmorris]

35. This should not be part of the discussion

That's not to say that we shouldn't care, we should, but retaining an industry because of the jobs alone, or even in part, is an obstacle to progress.

Did anyone suggest to Ford that maybe cars were a bad idea because of all the covered wagon makers that would be out of work?

Would any of us suggest that the war in Iraq is a good thing because of all the jobs it creates for Defense contractor employers?

The for profit medical industry in this country is an abomination. It is the embodiment of evil. The idea that a persons health should be exploited purely for profit rules them, and millions of American suffer and die as a result. That's the bottom line, and fixing that should be the single focus of the discussion.

[Kerrytravelers]

40. People aren't all going to run from private insurance companies in droves.

I'm with Kaiser. My office can afford it and won't be switching over. However, people like my in-laws who have suffered a major layoff and are now uninsured will run to Universal health care. My mother-in-law was recently in a very serious and life threatening car accident. Due to a change in medication, she fainted behind the wheel and ran head-on into a post at 50 MPH. She shocked everyone by surviving, but is in serious recovery right now. The bills are at $300,000 and climbing. They are going to pay off in installments, but more than likely they will be filing for bankruptcy. They are in their early 60s, so it is unlikely they will ever recover financially. And guess who will most likely end up helping to support them? Since my husband is their only living child, it will be us.

The lack of health care in this country affects more than just those without insurance.

[Cleita]

43. Since universal health care, most likely would be extending

a new and improved Medicare to all, there will be a lot of jobs available because of the extended bureaucracy, so many of those workers will probably find jobs in the new sector.

As far as the insurance companies are concerned, they will have to go find a cash cow somewhere else. Don't feel sorry for them, they will not go under, believe me. They will find another sector to sell insurance for like maybe for pets or plastic surgery and other sectors that basic Medicare won't cover.

[RB TexLa]

46. They would make millions selling supplemental and insurance to those who opt out

[Horse with no Name]

52. One sector of employees at these insurance companies

are former healthcare providers...nurses, doctors...who are ultimately the ones that decide whether you need care or more days in the hospital to get well.
Perhaps they could return to the bedside and realize that the shit they were forcing on people to save a buck was very ill advised. Or...they could stay out of work for all I care.
These people all worked at jobs ultimately to try to deny services to people who paid for coverage.
These are people who decided in some cases who lived and died.
I have no pity for them.
If they were to abolish the IRS...I would have no sympathy for the jobs lost there either.

[flaminbats]

56. ohh...what a tragedy!!

if we made drugs legal..what would happen to all the Meth pushers?:cry:

[liberalhistorian]

61. LOL,

good point!

[Dastard Stepchild]

57. They would still exist...

selling expanded or gap policies to people that preferred the enhanced benefits they could offer.

[sandnsea]

59. Pet Medical Insurance

Considering many people spend more money on the health of their pets than others can spend on their children, I think it's an emerging industry. They do have some policies already, it can only go up from there.

[Schema Thing]

63. Whatever would happen, it's the least of our worries

except to the extent that Insurance companies will fight tooth and nail to not let single payer happen.

[treestar]

67. They would still work somewhere

Jobs are not permanently the same, or we'd have no computer programmers and we'd still have milkmen.

Somehow the British and Canadians did it without creating a permanent underclass of former insurance company employees.

It's like the loggers opposing conservation. Like people assuming that every immigrant = one job for an American or that the number of jobs in the US economy = the number of people in the US and matches their skills exactly and stays the same all the time.

The economy is more dynamic than that.

[jgraz]

69. I honestly couldn't care less

I'm really not interested in restricting people's access to healthcare so we can provide a social safety net for insurance employees.