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RiverBend: When All Else Fails...Execute the dictator

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Wiley50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 06:06 PM
Original message
RiverBend: When All Else Fails...Execute the dictator
http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/

When All Else Fails...
… Execute the dictator. It’s that simple. When American troops are being killed by the dozen, when the country you are occupying is threatening to break up into smaller countries, when you have militias and death squads roaming the streets and you’ve put a group of Mullahs in power- execute the dictator.

Everyone expected this verdict from the very first day of the trial. There was a brief interlude when, with the first judge, it was thought that it might actually be a coherent trial where Iraqis could hear explanations and see what happened. That was soon over with the prosecution’s first false witness. Events that followed were so ridiculous; it’s difficult to believe them even now.

The sound would suddenly disappear when the defense or one of the defendants got up to speak. We would hear the witnesses but no one could see them- hidden behind a curtain, their voices were changed. People who were supposed to have been dead in the Dujail incident were found to be very alive.

Judge after judge was brought in because the ones in court were seen as too fair. They didn’t instantly condemn the defendants (even if only for the sake of the media). The piece de resistance was the final judge they brought in. His reputation vies only that of Chalabi- a well-known thief and murderer who ran away to Iran to escape not political condemnation, but his father’s wrath after he stole from the restaurant his father ran.

So we all knew the outcome upfront (Maliki was on television 24 hours before the verdict telling people not to ‘rejoice too much’). I think what surprises me right now is the utter stupidity of the current Iraqi government. The timing is ridiculous- immediately before the congressional elections? How very convenient for Bush. Iraq, today, is at its very worst since the invasion and the beginning occupation. April 2003 is looking like a honeymoon month today. Is it really the time to execute Saddam?
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. Wow
I didn't realize the judges were held in such ill repute by the Iraqi people. This execution could very well make things a lot worse in Iraq. I fear for our troops.
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Tuesday_Morning Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. Riverbend says:
"This is how free our media is today: the channels that were showing the pro-Saddam demonstrations have been shut down. Iraqi security forces promptly raided them.Welcome to the new Iraq."
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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 06:31 AM
Response to Original message
3. Her "end of another year" post is a must read
Great quote:

"Why make things worse by insisting on Saddam's execution now? Who gains if they hang Saddam? Iran, naturally, but who else? There is a real fear that this execution will be the final blow that will shatter Iraq. Some Sunni and Shia tribes have threatened to arm their members against the Americans if Saddam is executed. Iraqis in general are watching closely to see what happens next, and quietly preparing for the worst."

I fear she's right. :(
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 06:46 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. she has posted today
she hasn't posted since 11/5/06
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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 06:54 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Yes, glad she did
I trust her as much as anyone to decipher what's really going on in Iraq.
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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 06:48 AM
Response to Original message
5. And what an opening salvo!
Riverbend writes:

End of Another Year...
You know your country is in trouble when:

The UN has to open a special branch just to keep track of the chaos and bloodshed, UNAMI.
Abovementioned branch cannot be run from your country.
The politicians who worked to put your country in this sorry state can no longer be found inside of, or anywhere near, its borders.
The only thing the US and Iran can agree about is the deteriorating state of your nation.
An 8-year war and 13-year blockade are looking like the country's 'Golden Years'.
Your country is purportedly 'selling' 2 million barrels of oil a day, but you are standing in line for 4 hours for black market gasoline for the generator.
For every 5 hours of no electricity, you get one hour of public electricity and then the government announces it's going to cut back on providing that hour.
Politicians who supported the war spend tv time debating whether it is 'sectarian bloodshed' or 'civil war'.
People consider themselves lucky if they can actually identify the corpse of the relative that's been missing for two weeks.
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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 06:50 AM
Response to Original message
6. You guys do realize Riverbend is a Sunni
If you go back and read through the Blog some things become apparent.

#1: She/he doesn't like Shi'ites, at all.

#2: She/he actually praises Saddam on several different occasions.

Not to say that the invasion was good, or some of what she/he says isn't true, but there's an incredible bias to the writing. She/he has also refused to give an interview or meet with even one reporter.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Her blog has been personal.
She reports on what has happened to her family and neighbors. I suspect that very few reporters are in her neighborhood looking for interviews.
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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Read the March 18 entry ...
does that sound like someone with a bone to pick with Shi'ites? Nope. She's under no obligation to be interviewed by anyone .... why should she? It's a personal blog of observations and analyses. Sorry, I have yet to see any serious praise of Saddam from her; in fact, she doesn't seem to mention him much.
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Zero Division Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. I've never had the impression that she was a Saddam supporter...
or that she hates the average Iraqi Shi'ite, and I've been reading her blog off and on for a few years now. I admit that perhaps I've missed something that you've seen, but I really do not recall anything from her posts to support your contentions regarding her viewpoints. Are these your own impressions or the contentions of some other blog/group of bloggers?

I read her precisely because it sounds to me like the genuine opinions of an Iraqi living in the midst of the conflict and not like a blog tailored to the narratives of any particular political group or viewpoint. I would expect an "incredible bias" of some sort, though, to come from anyone with such a personal experience of the conflict.

If the blogger is indeed being truthful, then I would suspect that meeting with a reporter would be a very dangerous and foolish thing to do in her circumstances, attracting a rather dangerous degree of attention.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. And your point is?
Edited on Fri Dec-29-06 11:47 AM by Javaman
Regardless of what she is, it has become painfully apparent that the Suni have been marginalized in that nation. Yes, they were in control, yes Saddam was a suni, but given the fact that moron bremmer released all of the gov't workers, police force and military who the majority of was suni, is there any surprise that they got pissed off just because they were suni?

The biggest single mistake that was made other than starting this fucked up war was moron bremer stupid ass idea of cutting these people loose without any hope of redeeming themselves.

We caused this period. Saddam is a bastard, plain and simple, but destroying the lives of 20% of the population is gross incompetence at it's finest.

Abe Lincoln could have easily make the southerners lives a living hell after the civil war, but he chose to embrace them as the Americans that they were/are and as a result we grew into a strong nation, think of what our future would have looked like if he decided to marginalize them and make their lives a living hell because they succeeded.

This is exactly the course moron* and his room full of dopes chose to do. Instead of just putting the gov't on trial, he chose to marginalize and entire class of people. If I was one of them, I would be pissed too.

Getting down to brass tacks, in post WWII Europe and Japan the occupying forces, kept the respective military's in place to help maintain order and public works, but at the same time tried those who were the perpetrators of the crimes against humanity. Both nations arose from the ashes of war to become strong economies.

The by cutting loose all these people the stage has been effectively set for years upon years of war, chaos and out right hatred of the U.S. Because by cutting off all of these people who basically ran the government, moron*, by limiting electricity, water and sanitation, pissed off the Shia as well and opened the door wide open for the Iranians to influence everything in the souther part of the nation.

So whether or not you agree or disagree with Riverbend her being a Suni has very little to do with the plight of her country at this point.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. Can you please link to where she praises Saddam...
on "several different occasions"?

Thanks in advance.

Sid
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many a good man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. Riverbend is mixed Sunni/Shia
That's the fact that escapes most. Saddam was secularist and he tried to stamp out religious extremism, which in Iraq was mostly Shia. Riverbend's family, like most secularists in Iraq was intermixed. The secular Shia intermarried freely with Sunni and served in large numbers in both the government and military. The ethnic Kurds and ultra-religious Shia bore the brunt of Saddam's repression.

Bremer et.al. destroyed the secularists in Iraq because they were the trained civil servants who could stop their pillaging. We manufactured the civil war by supporting Shia who had the support of Shia religionists. Now all the families, like Riverbend's, who were mixed Sunni/Shia are afraid for their lives, afraid of assassination by Shia extremists and Sunni insurgents. We have effectively destroyed civil society in Iraq.
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. You made the allegations, you provide the links that prove them
Otherwise, that's a big steaming load right there.
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. delete
Edited on Fri Dec-29-06 06:50 PM by Ms. Clio
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warrens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #6
20. She would die fast if she DID meet with a reporter
And I don't see much bias at all. She has said she was a Sunni and that part of her family is Shia.
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
23. my goodness, nothing but crickets
a lame and pathetic attempt.
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sproutster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
24. I'm catholic, yet I do not support the rapes that occured.
I supported Pope John Paul, but I don't trust the new one as far as you can throw him.

I haven't stepped foot into a church since I was 12.

I was babtized at birth.
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many a good man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
11. Criticism of Riverbend
This is from the latest edition of New York Review of Books' review on her latest compilation of blogs:


The simple statement—"we should listen to Iraqi voices"—poses a crucial question. In our search for authentically Iraqi viewpoints, whom should we be listening to? Who can claim to speak for the citizens of a country where the barriers to understanding— following differences in religious belief, ethnicity, class—are so forbiddingly complex? In the case of Riverbend, it happens, it is also the mistakes of the young Baghdad woman, her limitations, that make her narrative worth reading. The daughter of an upper-middle-class family, she is a progressive Muslim and an idealistic Iraqi nationalist, intent on demonstrating to her American readers the high level of Iraq's cultural and economic development. And yet she is also distinctly oblivious to some of the darker sides of Saddam's regime.<7> "Some would say that they had complete rights even before the war," she notes at one point, in a characteristic moment of blindness (she has apparently never heard of the poison gas attacks Saddam's regime staged against Kurdish civilians). "The majority of Iraqis have a deep respect for other cultures and religions," she argues elsewhere. She decries American policies that seem to her aimed at dividing Iraqis into ethnic and sectarian communities, and makes a great point of emphasizing the mixed Sunni-Shia origins of her family.

As the story progresses, though, reality begins to catch up. Suddenly Shiites are taking to the streets with their deeply traditional rituals of mourning and self-chastisement, which had been prohibited by Saddam's government. For Riverbend it is a jarring sight:

These processions were banned before and, quite frankly, I wish they could be confined to certain areas now. The sight of so much violence (even if it is towards oneself) is just a little bit unnerving.

So much for her Shia roots. By the same token, she is notably contemptuous of Shiite representatives who have risen to new power and prestige under the occupation. She is particularly scornful of the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq—SCIRI, the Iranian-influenced Shiite party in Iraq—which she dismisses with some plausibility as an Iranian proxy. But she neglects to note that its leaders include clerics who command the allegiance of large numbers of the Shiite population. She is equally dismissive of the Grand Ayatollah Sistani, the senior spiritual authority for most of Iraq's Shiites, whom she scorns simply as an "Iranian." Such contempt, like that of many Iraqis who share her beliefs, completely misjudges the profound impact of the national elections sponsored by the occupation authorities. Before they took place she predicted they would be a fig leaf for American power—when in fact they ended up providing a galvanizing moment for many of those who voted.

In this misjudgment, Riverbend reminds me of those Soviet patriots who failed to understand the events that ushered in the final agony of the USSR. Many of those who lived well under the system were unable to see its crimes for what they were, making them dismissive or uncomprehending when the once-oppressed began to express their own political demands. The situations are not entirely dissimilar. In 2003, the American-led coalition entered an Iraq that had just completed a century of colonization, rebellion, social unrest, endless coups (marked by the public murder of political leaders), and authoritarian government even before the Baath Party ascended to power briefly in 1963 and then, more enduringly, in July 1968. After Saddam gained the presidency in July 1979, the country embarked on a twenty-four-year-period of totalitarian rule. The disastrous events of this era included the eight-year war with Iran (characterized by savage trench combat of a type not seen since World War I); genocidal attacks on the Kurds (including the use of chemical weaponry against Iraqi citizens); political terror targeting the Shiite spiritual leadership and religious institutions; the invasion of Kuwait and Saddam's defeat in Operation Desert Storm; and twelve years of postwar sanctions that pauperized much of the population and severely debilitated Iraq's once-envied social infrastructure. All too often attempts to deal with the effects of this history were driven underground by the state's ban on political discussion, furthering a process of atomization that has resulted, on countless levels, in a society that no longer knows itself. Both Shadid and Nir Rosen, in his book In the Belly of the Green Bird, note in passing that many of the Sunni Arab Iraqis they encounter during their reporting firmly believe, for example, that Sunnis make up 60 percent of the population.


Volume 54, Number 1 · January 11, 2007
by Christian Caryl
Christian Caryl is the Tokyo Bureau Chief of Newsweek. He has reported from thirty-five countries, including Russia, Afghanistan, and North Korea; he recently returned from Iraq. (January 2007)
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Working very hard here to discredit Riverbend
Based on her mild criticism of a violent religious ritual? And note the bullshit about the election of the U.S. puppet government being a "galvanizing moment" for those poor backwards Iraqis.

The ultimate irony, for any American journalist, is the line: "Many of those who lived well under the system were unable to see its crimes for what they were."
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many a good man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Thank you!
Thanks for coming to her defense in rebutting this review. I'm surprised you're the only one (so far).

I was surprised to read this in nybooks. IMO they are the best, most intelligent, progressive literary review in this country. I posted this excerpt to provoke discussion. I agree with your take on this hit job 100%.

The reviewer is right in reminding us to consider that Riverbend's writings are personal and expressive of the perspective of someone in her position in Iraqi society. But Caryl Christian's goes overboard placating the conventional wisdom ("received opinion") that tries to dismiss her observations. These criticisms ring extremely hollow.

By the way, great catch on the line of the decade:
The ultimate irony, for any American journalist, is the line: "Many of those who lived well under the system were unable to see its crimes for what they were."
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. Access to Iraqi blogs, to the voices of the people the neonazicons call "the enemy"
has been one of the most singular and amazing features of this "war," but so few Americans (including most DUers) read them, and don't even try to hear what the Iraqi people are saying about what this war has done to them and their country.

She is an Iraqi, and to try to reduce her to nothing more than her sect is just another aspect of the same arrogance and divide-and-conquer strategy that led the U.S. to deliberately set up the government along sectarian lines in the first place.

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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. wow...
Edited on Fri Dec-29-06 01:06 PM by stillcool47
the Tokyo Bureau Chief of Newsweek doesn't care for Riverbend's narrative of her own life. Too bad there aren't more Iraqi's left to blog more to his liking.
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Jcrowley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
19. K&R n/t
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