Sleeper Cell

[question everything]

Last week we were watching the second season of this program on Showtime. It was shown seven evenings in a row and, mot having commercial interruptions - like "24" - was almost too intense to watch.

As with last season, I thought that the program treated Muslims with dignity and respect. Except for the terrorists - who were really raving mad - the Muslims in this country were presented as decent human being who just want to live happily, like the rest of us.

And, what is often true in many situations, innocent civilians often find themselves mobilized into clandestine operations - by the authorities or by terrorists - because they are in a no-win situation.

And the way the leader was instilling in his young daughter the absolute obeying to the Koran was frightening. And, yes, we commented that Christian and Jewish militant would act in a similar manner. Yet, I think that Islamic extreme is the only one that actually promotes martyrdom. What with the promise of 70 virgins in heavens, or just heavenly life - this is a powerful motivation that no one can battle.

[Kagemusha]

1. Christianity and Judaism damn well used to promote martyrdom.

Masada, anyone? The Crusades? And, when it ceased to be actually called martyrdom, we had Verdun, the Somme, etc...

They say Islam never had an Enlightenment. Once upon a time, it didn't need one; it was already enlightened. But, times change.

[question everything]

4. Hello, 2006 vs. 1000?

I don't know about Enlightenment. Is this what is needed to convince individuals that life is worth living?

And the two events that you mention were an aberration. As far as I know - not being a religious scholar, far from it - both Judaism and Christianity promote life as the ultimate goal.

In Masada people chose to end their lives instead of being captured and killed, or sold to slavery. The Crusaders were going to "liberate" the Holy Land, not to commit suicide while killing their enemies at the same time.

[Kagemusha]

5. In general, suicide bombing is an aberration in Islam as well.

Sure, you can argue that near-certain death in an effort to kill one's enemy is vastly different from definite certain death to do the same but, I see the difference as being less than you do apparently.

[question everything]

8. How many suicide bombing have been carried out by terrorists

who were Muslims? How many by others?

I am sure that you are correct, that this is an aberration and clearly most Muslims disagree with this. As I pointed in my OP, the Muslims on that program were presented like regular folks who want to provide for their family and friends, who want to help the bombed out hospitals in Iraq - regardless of their affiliation.

But the Islamic terrorists are willing to die and this is what makes them a different kind of enemy.

Throughout history, soldiers of all countries were viewed as regular folks who just want to go back home to their families. But these are different and fighting them requires a different approach that no one is willing to tackle.

The hero of the program, by the way, if you have not seen it, is an African American who is also a Muslim and an FBI agent - which has created an estrangement with his dad, a long time militant who sees his son's FBI association as betraying everything that he fought all his life.

When one of the terrorists, realizing that Darwin (yes, this is his name) is an agent, he asks him: how can you work for the Americans? And Darwin's reply was: I AM an American.

[Kagemusha]

10. Okay um, just for the record, what religion are the Tamil tigers?

Google tells me that the Tamils are born Hindu and largely shun all religion. Yet they brought suicide bombing into fashion. I can concede your saying that the Islamic terrorists are a different kind of enemy without conceding one but that they are somehow unique.

I also vehemently reject your statement that throughout history, soldiers of all countries were viewed as regular folks who just want to go back home to their families. Need I go any further than the Hessians and the Cossacks? Or need I bring up American boot camp, which makes clear from the very first day that from that point onward, the military IS your family, your fellow men in your unit are your brothers and fathers, and when the chips are down, if you're going to die, die for that family, your unit? And certainly, kill for that family, your unit?

Please, don't generalize from the very late modern history era when universal conscription came into fashion. It's a very recent phenomenon, only roughly 150 years old, and is a far cry from quite a bit of military history before then. For all the honors they were supposedly given, professional soldiers were recruited from the scum of the Earth, rejects from normal life, dangerous adventurers with no future worth sacrificing a daughter to. (Officers were a different story, I suppose.) These people may not have fought with the certainty that they would die but, you're whitewashing the part about these people wanting ONE thing more than just going back home to their families: the genuine and vehement desire to slay the enemy for God, flag and country.

In those days they didn't have NASCAR on TV so if you wanted your kicks, you had to get them in person.

[LibraLiz1973]

2. I was PISSED at the ending!!!!!!!!

What the hell?

[question everything]

9. Well, Darwin was exposed

so any new assignments for him were out..

[LibraLiz1973]

3. When he made his daughter burn her drawings I was appalled

But I agree with you- the show dealt with the muslim faith very well. As with every other religion there are kooks.
I'd like to see it come back for a season 30- only this time with another cell in place.
(Not muslim)

[T Wolf]

6. Sorry - I thought you were talking about the Nixonites who now run the

government.

I have not seen any episode of the new version of the kill-the-commies tv prop shows.

[question everything]

7. Muslims are not communists

and this include terrorists.

[Kagemusha]

11. There are some Muslim communists, but they're rather rare.

Afghanistan gave communism a pretty bad rep with all Moslems after all; it's viewed, like to many in America - which supported the Moslem anti-Communists in Afghanistan, such as the Saudi foreign fighter, Osama Bin Laden - as a tool of the Russian-dominated U.S.S.R., and therefore no friend of Moslem nations or wannabe nations like Chechnya.