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Do you know why Hawai'i is so nice? - We don't have any legalized Gambling!!

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The Sushi Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 08:51 PM
Original message
Do you know why Hawai'i is so nice? - We don't have any legalized Gambling!!
Edited on Wed Dec-20-06 08:52 PM by The Sushi Bandit
not even a lottery
no gaming
no horse or dog racing
no bingo
no slot or card casinos

what are the benefits?
low crime
low prostitution
nice people!

Oh, did i mention... no billboards too!
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'm sure the climate has nothing to do with the niceness.
;-)
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Monkeyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
2. Na North Shore Wave Hunting
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Monkeyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. 40 Footer breaking like glass
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
3. I thought it was this:
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4morewars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Sweet !
:smoke:
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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
4. And all those colorful chickens are for what again?
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Those chickens are used for cock fighting...illegal I might add but still goes on
although not in Waikiki.
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Kelly Rupert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-20-06 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
8. I'm sure that's exactly why.
Nothing to do with being paradise on Earth under a stable, responsible government.
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CabalPowered Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-21-06 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
9. Hawaii does need some urban planning though
I'm in Lahaina at the moment, for the first time in about a decade. It's a mess. I cannot believe they're allowing all the new construction north of Kaanapali without putting in another lane on the highway. Yet my buddy has been waiting about 3 years to get his demolition permit so he can rebuild on his lot.

Besides that.. it's still paradise. :)
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The Sushi Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-21-06 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Blame the State and Federal Road programs for that!
the state has to get funding then go to the feds to get more money. Oahu was suprised when we here on Maui said that roads were the most important issue (besides affordable housing). So the county is left holding the bag.

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CabalPowered Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-21-06 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Yea the State is definately dysfunctional at times.
We used (emphasis on the past tense) to work with the State DoEd and superintendent Pat Hammatato (sp?) and nobody ever knew what was going on. Ever. We stopped trying to bring them Federal research funds because they were so difficult to work with.

But as I understand it, Maui is about as corrupt as the police on the big island. My buddy tells me that about the only way he's going to get his demo permit is with an envelope full of cash in the right hands. And that's how it sounds like Westin was able to get phase 2 going at Kaanapali.

But like I said, it's still paradise. :)
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-21-06 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
11. That's like saying Massachusetts is nice because it doesn't have palm trees.
Of course, those benefits have nothing to do with the whole island paradise, gazillions of tourist dollars, super-prime real-estate market...

Nice clue.
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The Sushi Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-21-06 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. The point is - the corrupting influences of gambling!
or like the lotto... tax on the stupid
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-21-06 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Then again, some people enjoy gambling! nt
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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-21-06 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #14
25. Some people enjoy meth, too.
Just saying.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-21-06 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. don't think there is any shortage of meth in hawaii
what the hell is wrong w. gambling? i don't get the original poster's point, unless it is a joke that soared over my head

what is the good of a vacation destination w. no casino? what the heck do the old people do for sport if they can't play cards? woo hoo, they can watch teevee and play shuffleboard? guess what, folks, you won't always be young and strong and able to surf the ninth wave forever
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. you can't play cards
without gambling?

What good is a vacation destination with no casino? Exactly right. Which is why I have not been to Hawaii, or the Grand Canyon, Yellowstone, Glacier National Park, Niagara Falls, or Yosemite.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. you can't play cards w.out gambling correct
what the hell kind of card game is it that doesn't involve gambling? go fish?

i was teasing about the rest of it, as i'm sure you know :-)

but nothing could be more pointless than a card game w.out money on it
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HarukaTheTrophyWife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-21-06 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. In NJ, the lottery helps fund education.
What's wrong with that?

:shrug:
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The Sushi Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-21-06 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Look at what percentage really goes to education
Edited on Thu Dec-21-06 04:08 PM by The Sushi Bandit
Lottery supporters say it's paternalistic for opponents to talk about the way state governments take advantage of their poorest citizens when they run lotteries. So let's turn away from that argument for a moment. Let's take a purely economic look at lotteries.

Here's what various studies, from academians to major news organizations, have found:

* Lottery states raise taxes at a higher rate than non-lottery states.

* Lottery states increase spending on education at a lower rate than non-lottery states.

* Lottery revenue fluctuates more than regular tax revenue and eventually decreases, leaving deficits in programs funded by lotteries.

* It costs more money every year to raise a buck from a lottery.

* Lotteries create new costs for states, which have to contend with a small but significant number of people who become addicted to lottery gambling.

Pay particular attention to the point about higher taxes. Lottery supporters here present a lottery as the only way to increase education funding without raising taxes. That struck me as a patently absurd argument to begin with, given the hundreds of millions of dollars legislators have added to education funding in the last few years without raising a single tax. But a 1996 article in Money magazine, "Lotto Fever: We All Lose," demonstrated that it was even more absurd than I imagined.

The article reported: "What the estimated 55 million Americans who play the lottery at least once a month probably don't realize . . . is how big a rip-off the state-run games are for them as taxpayers. A six-month investigation by Money reveals that the lotteries have neither lowered taxes for their residents nor boosted funding for education, as their champions have often promised. What's more, by helping turn people . . . into compulsive gamblers, lotteries are adding an estimated $10.9 billion a year to the financial burdens of the states."

Specifically, Money found the following:

* Over the previous five years, average per capita taxes increased 21.7 percent in lottery states - nearly three times the growth in non-lottery states, 7.2 percent. That put the average lottery-state taxes at $1,401 and the average non-lottery state taxes at $1,049.

* Spending was projected to grow more than twice as fast that year in lottery states as non-lottery states, 3.7 percent compared to 1.46 percent.

* Taxes increased more often in lottery states than in non-lottery states. In the previous year, 25 percent of lottery states had raised taxes, compared to just 14 percent of non-lottery states.

"A lottery does not inoculate a state against higher taxes," the article said. "To the contrary, most states create lotteries because they need all the income they can possibly generate."

One of the main reasons for the higher taxes, the magazine found, is that "states typically treat lottery revenues as 'found money' that they use to close budget gaps rather than to cut taxes or spending."

The Center for the Study of the States found that in 1994, lottery states devoted 49 percent of their total spending to education, down from 50.1 percent in 1990. Non-lottery states increased their education spending from 58.2 percent to 58.9 percent in that same time.

More significantly, Saint Mary's College professors Donald Miller and Patrick Pierce found that while overall education spending increased in all 50 states from 1966 through 1990, the increases in lottery states - including lottery spending - was half what it was in non-lottery states. The initial boost of education funding that came from lotteries was wiped out by the seventh year, so that the total per capita spending was less in lottery states than in non-lottery states ($469 vs. $581).

"A more detailed look at the impact of education lotteries on educational spending reveals perhaps an even more perverse portrait," they write. "Immediately upon beginning the lottery, a state is likely to increase its educational spending. Furthermore, this increase is the nontrivial amount of nearly 50 dollars per capita, which is almost 10 percent of the mean value for educational spending over this time period ($555). Citizens (if attentive) would then infer that the lottery was a tremendous boon to education. Policy makers in good conscience could credit the lottery with enabling them to increase spending in education. However, both would be wrong. In the years following the initial use of the lottery, the rate of growth in educational spending declines. We should emphasize that spending does not decrease; rather, its rate of increase is cut in half. That is, spending increases at the rate of 6 dollars annually per capita rather than 12 dollars per capita."

Then there's the question of stability. In the past year alone, sales dropped in 12 of the 38 U.S. lotteries.

By CINDI ROSS SCOPPE:

More significantly, the amount of money the lottery gave to governments dropped in 16 states. In other words, even when lotteries are able to take in more money, they give the state less, because they have to pay larger prizes to keep people playing.

It's a long-term trend. In the 1970s, when there were few lotteries, state gambling returned 43 percent of the money to the states. Increased competition has forced up payouts and reduced the states' take to 30 percent.

John Hill, senior policy analyst with the Alabama Policy Institute, analyzed lottery revenues from 1964 to 1998. He controlled for the effect of 20 factors, from per capita income and race to population density, the nearness of other states with lotteries and the wealth of adjacent states. Even controlling for all those factors, he found that lottery revenue, when adjusted for inflation, declines over time.

"Even though states are marketing more aggressively and introducing new games, there's still a slight negative relationship," Dr. Hill told me. "I think if we asked this question five years from now, the relationship would be much more pronounced" because lottery revenues have become more unstable in the last two years, which he did not analyze.

So forget about the poor, if you're so inclined. For all of us - and particularly for our schoolchildren - a lottery is a net loss.

Ms. Scoppe can be reached at cscoppe@thestate.com or at (803) 771-8571.

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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-21-06 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Dumb question, where does the lottery money go?
If it's not being spent on education where does it get spent?
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The Sushi Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-21-06 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. "Administration" for one
in a lot of states it gets diverted to other "programs"
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #15
33. That's what we were told in Illinois, too, when they started it.
Then the state started cutting the ed budget by the amount taken in by the lottery. In the end, education gained nothing from the lottery.
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-21-06 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. That's stupid. You have plenty of prostitutes in Hawaii.
They just don't hang out on street corners. You have no point, because you can't prove what you are saying.
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The Sushi Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-21-06 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Your statement must be from experience..
everyplace has them... but how many and in what form?
remember this is a statmemnt about gambling and how it rots society.
and I am not bible thumping do gooder... I just see it for what it is.

Oh, Just TRY to find a hooker here on Maui. They are VERY rare!
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 05:21 AM
Response to Reply #22
30. Try finding a hooker...
in the Chinatown part of Honolulu, you'll have no problem, we've definitely got crime and prostitution.

If only your post was true it really would be paradise...and I'm in Kaimuki right now, home for Xmas.
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-23-06 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #22
35. I wouldn't be caught dead in Hawaii.
It's a disgusting corporate tourist trap. Now that Fiji's no longer viable, though, I may have to find a new island paradise. I guarantee it won't be Hawaii, gambling or no.

And I don't appreciate your insinuation about prostitution. Your bizarre anti-gambling assertion (as if that's the reason for the seeming lack of social problems on Hawaii, not outrageous amounts of tourist money and prime real estate) has nothing to do with why Hawaii is supposedly nice. Which is your opinion.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-21-06 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
20. No RVs,
either..
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The Sushi Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-21-06 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. TRUE!
the only one i ever saw was being used for a movie shoot and it was shipped here and was shipped back.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-21-06 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. I heard they were against the
Edited on Thu Dec-21-06 10:14 PM by zidzi
law over there which makes sense.

Never saw one on Kauai for six years. How's the weather over there on Maui? B-)
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The Sushi Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. Very nice during the day...
chilly at night with some sporatic rain..
I live on the windward side!
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Awesome! I lived on the
leeward side of Kauai in Hanapepe town. Going to return in about 3 & 1/2 years!!
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-21-06 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
21. I dunno, I see DOG the bounty hunter facing all kinds of issues there :)
:rofl:
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The Sushi Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-21-06 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. That is all $HOW.. the people here are outraged on how
it presents hawaii.
He is just white trash that should be back on the mainland pumping gas or wrestling in Mississippi.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
32. No initiative or referendum allowed in Hawaii, otherwise the voters would
Edited on Fri Dec-22-06 07:34 PM by oasis
have at least approved a lottery.

The Vegas lobby keeps gaming out of the isles. Las Vegas takes in more than $250,000,000 annually from visiting Hawaiians.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-23-06 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
36. Hana
is the only place I've ever been where I felt as at home as I do in Vermont. In fact, bizarre as this sounds, it reminded me of the Northeast Kingdom here.
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