Hemp Oil

[andyhappy]

Is it true that we could power cars on hemp oil? I mean, if thats the case, how did we ever end up using the black oily stuff?

The thing it seems we have more than anything in this country is miles and miles of fertile soil. We should use it.

[spanone]

1. We could do many things with hemp. Our Government is insane.

Hemp would intrude on the profits of the Bush* Pioneers. Corporate America would fight it tooth & nail.

[NoSheep]

53. "Our government is insane." BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

:spray:

[Rainscents]

2. Yes, that is true.

Hemp is good for so many things, however, our government don't want us to know this.

[Quantess]

6. Hold on.

You're saying it is true that we can power cars on hemp oil? :spray:

[Rainscents]

10. Very funny! LOL

:spray:

[Quantess]

24. Just checking.

;-)

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. I use it

as a tonic, myself. It's full of goodies that keep you healthy, according to my doctor.

Hemp fabric wears like iron. It is ridiculous that it has been outlawed just because industrial hemp is a cousin to marijuana. But of course the real reason it was outlawed was because corporations wanted nylon to take its place.

[yellowcanine]

28. Hemp is not just a "cousin" of marijuana. It is the same species. Just a different cultivar or

variety.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_sativa

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

29. It was explained to me this way

by a lawyer who is out to legalize industrial hemp. He used this analogy: there are two kinds of cherry trees-one you get cherries from to eat, one to get wood from. They aren't the same thing-his point being that people don't smoke industrial hemp.

[yellowcanine]

30. But the point is one can't tell the difference from a helicopter, or even from the road driving by,

or possibly even standing right next to the plant. Therein lies the problem.

[dougkeenan]

56. Yes one can ...

... hemp is grown in dense patches while cannabis grown for flowers (marijuana) are isolated plants, usually females, which are visually distinct even at a distance. Chemical tests are available for up-close testing.

There is no problem except obstinacy.

[mike_c]

4. the "black oily stuff" stores tens of millions of years worth...

...the Earth's primary production. Fossil fuels have an energy density that we can never achieve with modern bio-fuels. For example, it's been estimated that our annual energy expenditure from fossil fuels exceeds 400 times the Earth's yearly primary production. There is simply no way to recover that kind of energy from bio-fuels. They can make a dent in our energy budget, but that's about it.

[yellowcanine]

5. It isn't that simple. Most "fertile soil" is already being used. If one grows hemp or switchgrass

or corn or anything else for energy purposes, there are going to be tradeoffs. So any potential crop has to be considered in the context of the cost of inputs (including land) versus the potential benefits. Not all open land that you may see driving by is necessarily suitable land for crop production. And then there is the question of development pressure. Our land tenure system in this country does not prevent a farmer from selling good crop land for housing developments. That too must be considered. The point is, there is not a surplus of arable farm land. Quite the opposite.

[andyhappy]

8. really?

but when you fly over the country its just miles and miles of nothing. A sea of land. You mean its all either growing stuff, or its all bad soil?

I find that hard to believe. But I dunno, thats why I am asking! ;)

[yellowcanine]

12. It is mostly all growing "something", yes. There is really no such thing as a "bad" soil.

Soils differ in their suitablility for particular uses. It just so happens that the amount of land suitable for conventional crop production is relatively small.

[Fierce]

16. Growing things for energy use

is going to take a lot of water. And if you think wars over oil are bad, wars over water are going to be much worse.

Also, I don't know about hemp, but corn is really, really hard on the soil -- not including pesticides and herbicides used, too. You can't grow corn on soil more than once or twice before you have to let the land rest. Corn takes a lot of nutrients out of the soil.

[alfredo]

27. There's a lot of land out there that has been over farmed, has

become saline, the top soil washed away, or the aquifer has been drained. Someday it might be farmed again, but it needs to sit fallow for a couple decades. By then global warming may have made it into a desert.

[Chemical Bill]

13. Arable farm land going to housing...

is certainly a problem all over the country.

Also, meat production uses 17 times the farmland you would use for comparable amounts of vegetable protein, IIRC.

Meanwhile, hemp can prosper in marginal (sandy, unfertile) soil that is unsuitable for much else.

Sorry, the lack of land is not the reason for the lack of hemp, IMO.

Bill

[yellowcanine]

19. No it is not JUST land, but it is all of the inputs together that must be considered.

We are talking water, nutrients, energy, manpower, etc versus potential benefits. In fact, the ag economic studies that have been done with hemp have not been all that encouraging.

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/links/doi/10.1111%2Fj.1467-9353.2003.00164.x

IMO if the economics were a little more favorable, the THC issue would likely "go away" because the ag lobby would pressure Congress to pass favorable legislation. The fact that they haven't tells me that there is not a clear economic advantage to hemp production.

[porphyrian]

14. The land issues don't apply to hydroponic farming. - n/t

[yellowcanine]

26. Industrial hemp is not going to be grown hydroponically.

[porphyrian]

43. Oh, I didn't know you were the authority and that you had already spoken on the issue.

:eyes:

[yellowcanine]

45. Save your sarcasm. I am not the authority but it is just common sense that one is not going to grow

a crop on a field level hydroponically. We are not talking a few plants grown for bud here - we are talking hundreds of acres grown for fiber or oil.

[porphyrian]

47. There's nothing "common sense" about your defeatist bullshit.

Please, give up and get out of the way. You can think the working people are stupid from out of our way.

[yellowcanine]

48. Since when is making rational arguments "defeatist"? Namecalling is not an argument. If you can

make an argument for hemp, make it. Calling those who disagree "defeatist" does not advance the discussion. I will give up and get out of the way when someone makes a rational argument for hemp. So far that has not happened. The scientists who disputed the cold fusion "findings" of Pons and Fleishman were promoting "defeatist bullshit" by your definition of the term. You are entitled to your opinion but not to your own facts. Make an argument if you have one.

[porphyrian]

49. Your cynical opinion isn't a rational argument. Anyone can say something can't be done.

There has yet to be any namecalling in this thread, so nice strawman. Same with your silly "if you can make an argument for hemp" challenge. There have been plenty of rational arguments for hemp and your denial of they're being rational can't change that. The cold fusion strawman is also quaint, but a waste of time. Now sit down, Francis.

[yellowcanine]

50. Assertions, yes. arguments, no. Hemp has possibilities but is unproven.

So far there is no evidence that it is superior or even equal to any crop already grown for fiber or oil. It is inferior to synthetic fibers for rope production, the traditional use that sustained the hemp industry that hemp advocates wax nostalgic about. I have made my arguments. Make yours. My name isn't Francis. The cold fusion reference was an example of why rational argument is better than bandwagon science. No strawman constructed, none knocked down. Use of the term "defeatist bullshit" is the equivalent of namecalling. It doesn't advance the discussion.

[porphyrian]

51. Your mind is made up, and I don't have the time to waste trying to change it.

Thanks for all of your contributions to advancing the discussion.

[yellowcanine]

52. You're welcome.

[Chemical Bill]

7. It's true, however...

hemp is not the best plant for oil/acre. The advantage of hemp is that you can make fabric, paper, and ethanol from other parts of the plant. The oil (in the seeds) is also nutritious. Plus, certain sub-species have buds that are worth good money on the recreational substance market. ;-)

Bill

[yellowcanine]

35. Generally a variety bred for one use is not so useful for another. For

example, soybeans also can be used for forage (hay). In fact, most of the soybean acreage in this country up to the 1950s was for forage, not for the grain. However, forage varieties are much taller than grain varieties and while they do produce seeds, they are harvested before the seeds are mature - in fact, before flowering, if you want any kind of quality in the forage. Grain varieties are much shorter - if they were tall like the forager varieties they would fall over when the seeds were mature and guess what - you can't combine soybeans that are lying on the ground. The same principles undoubtably hold for hemp. Different breeding objectives and different cultural requirements, particularly harvesting times and methods would likely preclude multiple uses from the same variety. As for the buds - there is no way high THC varieties will be used for hemp as long as current drug laws are in place. And if the buds are harvested for THC, there will be no oil seed to harvest.

[tridim]

9. The great thing about hemp is that it doesn't need fertile soil

It'll grow anywhere, it doesn't deplete all the nutrients like other crops do and it doesn't need nearly as much water as other similar plants. It's the perfect crop.

It's just too bad it's sister variety makes people feel good. Feeling good is bad, M'kay?

[yellowcanine]

15. No it will not grow anywhere and it depletes the soil of nutrients like any other crop does.

There is no free lunch, not even hemp. Every crop has particular needs and growing conditions. Some crops may have a wider tolerance of "crappy" conditions than other crops, but no crop will grow anywhere. And all plants take nutrients from whatever they are growing in, which is usually soil.

On edit: Some crops do not require as much of particular nutrients as others. For example, corn needs a lot of nitrogen from the soil. Soybeans need nitrogen also, but they "fix" nitrogen (with the help of some symbiotic bacteria), so they can get by with less from the soil.

[tridim]

18. So that ditchweed growing along side the highway is being fertilized and watered?

Hemp will grow anywhere, I've seen it grow anywhere. Like any weed it's extremely hardy and grows very quickly. Of course it takes nutrients, it just doesn't take enough that the soil has to be turned every season.

[yellowcanine]

22. Hmm. How did you get that out of my post? Have seen it growing in arid regions?

Sorry, but it does not grow anywhere. At least not without irrigation.

4. Growing Conditions
Hemp prefers a mild climate, humid atmosphere, and a rainfall of at least 25-30 inches per year. Good soil moisture is required for seed germination and until the young plants are well established.

It also requires a fair amount of nutrients.

3. Nutrition
To achieve an optimum hempyield, twice as much nutrient must be available to the crop as will finally be removed from the soil at harvest. A hemp field produces a very large bulk of vegetative material in a short vegetative period. The nitrogen uptake is most intensive the first 6 to 8 weeks, while potassium and in particular phosphorous are needed more during flowering and seed formation. Industrial hemp requires 105 to 130 lbs./acre (120 to 150 kg./ha) nitrogen, 45 to 70 lbs./acre (50 to 80 kg/ha) phosphate and 52 to 70 lbs./acre (60 to 80 kg/ha) potash.

That amount of nitrogen is actually not much less than the requirement for corn, which is a fairly heavy nitrogen feeder.

http://www.hemp-sisters.com/Information/factsheet.htm#4

On edit: I would also note that it is a mistake to compare what will grow as a weed to how it will produce when cultivated as a crop. The conditions that allow a plant to survive as a weed may not be sufficient for the same plant to make it as a cultivated crop. The weed just has to survive, a crop has to produce an economically viable return over inputs.

[tridim]

31. It grows wild in Colorado, which is an arid climate at high altitude

It grows wild all over the Midwest and the south, it's grown as a cash crop in Canada and Mexico. It's safe to say it'll grow just fine almost anywhere in the United States. I suppose if you want to prove a point you can say it won't grow well in the deserts of Death Valley. Your link is fine, but it's describing the ideal growing conditions, not the minimal.

I never claimed it doesn't require nutrients to grow. Every plant does. I simply said it doesn't leech the soil as bad as some other crops and is drought tolerant.

[yellowcanine]

32. As I said - "growing" and "being an economically viable crop" are not one and the same. If you want

it to be economically viable, you had better be growing it under ideal conditions to get the quality and quantity needed without too many expensive inputs. The hemp grown in Canada and Mexico is not necessarily instructive, it is used mostly for high end trendy fabrics and it is not at all clear what the limits of that market are. Growing hemp for oil production would be a whole other ball game. I am not saying it could not be economically viable, particularly if multiple uses could be made of the same crop (but this is unlikely, given that the best fiber varieties are not likely to be the best oil varieties) just that the jury is out on it. We need a bit more research on it - something more than windshield anecdotal research that says "it grows all over as a weed, therefore it is a lead pipe cinch as a crop."

[tridim]

40. I WAS a lead pipe cinch cash crop in America..

Before it was made illegal and also during WWII. No need to prove that again.

[yellowcanine]

46. Yes before synthetic fiber, hemp was used for rope. Now hemp for rope is not in great demand.

Like whale oil and horse drawn carriages, hemp has been sidelined by technological progress. There is not that much demand for rope anyway, and that demand there is being met by nylon, polyester and other synthetic fibers. Hemp rots, synthetic fibers don't. Pound for pound, synthetic fibers are much stronger than hemp.

[tridim]

54. So I take it you'd rather wear polyester than hemp clothing?

You must really like the Disco!

It's also very convenient that you left out cotton which would be the primary competitor. This isn't just about rope for gawd's sake.

If hemp rots as badly as you claim, why is the US Constitution still intact?

[yellowcanine]

55. Not what I said, please don't put words in my mouth.

Hemp was used mainly for rope and sails, etc, some for paper, yes. Polyester and other synthetic fibers is less susceptible to weathering and thus more suitable for rope. Hemp exposed to moisture is going to rot. Hemp rope used outside gets exposed to moisture, hemp paper stored properly does not. Cotton is more suitable for clothing than hemp. That is why it supplanted hemp for that purpose long before there were any anti Cannabis laws. My point was that the traditional uses of hemp are not relevant today and that a lot of hemp advocates point to those traditional uses. The fact that Washington and Jefferson grew hemp is quite irrelevent. They grew indigo also. Should we push indigo as a crop?

[EST]

11. Yep

Each not quite totally ripe seed has within it a glit of oil-an impressive glit. The amount of oil available is far beyond any other processed food oil and you don't have to do anything to it to turn it into oil.

It is suitable as is for use as a fuel at atmospheric pressures, low compression and very high compression internal combustion engines and with a small amount of tinkering, diesel engines, and as a lubricant.

As a highly insulating building material, hemp is without peer, and of course, hemp is the original source for linen, useful for bed sheets, folding money, clothing, sails, rope, aircraft skin, any sort of canvas (think denim jeans,) and so many other products your mind would be blown.
(Not to mention certain types of hemp also yield highly prized medicinal products)

[jcrew2001]

17. cash crop

Marijuana is the biggest cash crop in the US.

[12string]

20. hemp oil

Since no one seems to just want to answer your question,here
goes...Yes hemp oil is a renewable resource for number two
diesel that puts out only three percent of the hydrocarbons as
fossil fuel.Now you know the real reason it is illegal.

[yellowcanine]

25. But is it better than say, soybean oil? Soybeans require way less nitrogen.

In fact, soybeans can be grown without any nitrogen, because they are legumes. You have to compare hemp oil to its vegetable alternatives, not to diesel.

[Chemical Bill]

34. Well...

From Appendix 5 of "From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank" by Josh Tickell: hemp produces 305 kg of oil per hectare. As a comparison, soy produces 375, rapeseed (canola) produces 1000, jatropha produces 1590, and the king (besides algae) is oil palm, which produces 5000 kg/hectare. Canada is a big canola producer, and canola biodiesel is easily available in Europe. Palm oil is tropical, so we wouldn't have much production in this country. Algae is really the most likely fuel source. But as I said elsewhere in this thread, there are other uses for the same hemp plant.

As it is in this country, we discard soybean oil from cooking, and even from meat production (the cows are fed the soybean meal). Some of this waste is diverted to biodiesel production. So at this point we can safely say that plant oil for transportation is not a big resource hog.

Bill

[TheWraith]

21. Well, not exactly.

While it is theoretically possible to produce fuel from hemp, the idea of using it as a primary energy source is one of those things that's not really practical, but still pushed by some well meaning but misinformed hemp enthusiasts. It's like the claimed superiority of hemp fiber over nylon and synthetics--in actuality, synthetic fibers are much stronger and more durable. Similarly, hemp is far from the best plant for production of energy, and even if it were, you couldn't fully replace fossil fuels with biosynth fuels, no matter how much you grew.

[Kazak]

23. Freedom is NORML!!!

Why is it illegal? Because it grows so easily in folks backyard. If folks were allowed to grow it, who'd need cigarettes? Who'd need alcohol? Who'd need Pharmaceuticals? You get the drift...

[LostinVA]

33. Diesel engines were invented specifically to NOT run on dino-fuel

But on vegetable oil, plant oil, even SAWDUST extract. Bio-diesel is not a new idea, it's actually the original idea.

[yellowcanine]

36. But in fact they do, So it is kind of a moot point. Ford imported a lot of soybean varieties in

the 1920s as well to promote soybeans both for fuel AND for plastic body parts. Ford even built a soy plastic Model A. But the economics didn't work out for soy and they did for oil and steel. That may be changing now but it will probably take $80-100 a barrel oil to sustain the biofuels market.

[Ezlivin]

37. PROBLEM with running on hemp oil - the exhaust will give you a contact high

If you left your car's engine running in an enclosed area, you'd have to get out and eat some munchies.

Pedestrians would be affected and could possibly spend too much money on tasty food products and beverages.

:)

[yellowcanine]

38. This is a PROBLEM? Where is the downside?

[Ezlivin]

39. Spending over $100 a day on Screaming Yellow Zonkers

That ain't no way to treat your food budget.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screaming_Yellow_Zonkers

[AnnieBW]

42. Or Doritos.

Screaming Yellow Zonkers are hard to find these days. Stick with Doritos.

[Der Blaue Engel]

44. Mmmmmm...Screaming Yellow Zonkerrrrrssssssss

I loves me some SYZ!

[Megahurtz]

41. Lol!

:D