CNN doctor just gave bad news about Senator Johnson

[proud2BlibKansan]

"I have a feeling we are going to measure his recovery in weeks and months as opposed to hours and days"

:cry:

[babylonsister]

1. A recovery of any length is better than the alternative.

I hope he pulls through this, whatever it is.

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. True but if this is correct,

he is out of the Senate. And his Republican governor appoints his replacement.

[maine_raptor]

7. Not necessarily

He could refuse to vacate the seat and the Gov could do diddly-squat about it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. Even if he is incapacitated?

[SoFlaJet]

12. yes

he can miss every vote and still be the senator

[proud2BlibKansan]

61. Alright!

[maine_raptor]

16. Karl Earl Mundt

"After suffering a severe stroke in 1969, he remained in office through the end of his term on January 3, 1973, but was unable to attend sessions of Congress and was stripped of his committee assignments by the Senate Republican Conference in 1972. He did not seek reelection in 1972. He was succeeded in the Senate by James Abourezk."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Earl_Mundt

[wellstone dem]

21. didn't Biden have brain surgery,how long was he out? nt

[Mel]

59. he was out for 8 months

n/t

[atreides1]

18. I think

Unless the senator resigns on his own the only way for a replacement to be appointed is for the Senate to vote for his removal.

In the past this was not a likely scenario, but with the wolves(Republicans)at the door, it is far more likely to happen when Congress returns in January.

I'm not sure how the process works though.

[Recursion]

29. Stennis stayed on long after incapacity

There's no equivalent of the 25th amendment for senators. If he can't physically get in to vote, though, the Republicans could still maintain control.

[maine_raptor]

36. Normal Senate protocol is for a "R" to also not vote.

At least that is how I understand the game is played. Now would the GOP honor that is that question.

Also: Mundt held out (see my post above) because he wanted the Gov to appoint his wife. The Gov refused.

[seabeyond]

38. i dont know the mans voting record, but s dakota, i would

imagine he tends to vote conservative dem?

[Sgent]

47. Huh?

The new senate is 51-49 D-R.

Remove the one vote, and its still 50-49 for the Dem.

Its only in the case of a switch where it becomes 50-51 because the VP breaks the tie.

[hlthe2b]

14. No.... the issue of "incapacitation" is a wide open one...

There is nothing at all clear cut about it... Several media articles have discussed the issue of precedent--including, ironically, the case of a SD Senator who refused to vacate to his death, dating back to the late 40s, as I recal. If the Senator in question does not vacate, there is no clear path here...

[JNelson6563]

20. We could get Frist to diagnose via video

:toast:

[marmar]

39. I suspect his diagnosis would be different for Sen. Johnson....

:think:

[proud2BlibKansan]

62. He'd say Johnson is dead

[Freddie Stubbs]

57. Charles Sumner was absent from the Senate for three years recovering

from a violent attack by a Congressman.

[HereSince1628]

2. A CNN company physician or one of Johnson's care-givers?

Your statement could be either, and only one of the options actually knows.

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. That inhouse doctor they use

Sanja Gupta (I probably butchered the spelling - sorry).

[HereSince1628]

11. Then it's typical arm-chair medical speculation for infotainment

I suspect we'll get some sort of formal statement from the attending physicians or Johnson's staff before too long.

[xultar]

28. True but Sanjay is a democrat and practicing neurosuregon...he's good.

[madinmaryland]

43. Its still speculation.

[xultar]

48. Yeah. Duh.

[moondust]

8. Sanjay Gupta speculation.

Although I believe he is a neurosurgeon and he does contribute only to Dems.

[xultar]

15. That's why I love him. He's HAWT too!

[etherealtruth]

68. Way HOT, xultar! n/t

[xultar]

26. He's a practicing neurosuregon....he's pretty good and a Democrat.

[bigtree]

3. more speculation based on "feelings"

or did he offer any other reasons?

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. Oh he had plenty of reasons

He had a model of the brain and talked about which area had been affected. It was definitely bad news.

[bigtree]

17. did he have actual confirmation of the condition of the senator? I saw no reports

which specified the areas of the brain which were affected. Where is he getting his info on Tim's condition?

[spanone]

19. He was speculating. He had NO HARD NEWS.

[hlthe2b]

23. This is why most physicians will NOT do the speculation game...

ah lah Bill Frist... Even if they use carefully measured words, the lay public parses what they will and run with it. The threads on DU are really evidence of that--even while well-meaning.

Diagnosis and speculation on prognosis for those not directly involved in the case, is at best a tricky proposition and at worst (ah lah, Frist) akin to both medical and journalistic malpractice imo.

[xultar]

24. He's not a physician...he is a practicing neurosurgeon....a pretty good one too.

He knows his shit. While he was reporting in Iraq on the Medical conditions he actually ended up performing brain surgery on some troops.

He's that good.

[hlthe2b]

27. !!! Umm, Xultar, Neurosurgeons ARE physicians...LOL

And yes, I think he is good. That is NOT the point. The point is that no matter how carefully he explains probable scenarios, and how carefully he couches the uncertainty, the lay public has a high potential of misinterpreting. That is the risk of speculation, no matter how competent Gupta may be.

[xultar]

30. I thought there was a difference..minute but a difference. I wouldn't go to a suregon for a physical

[hlthe2b]

34. You wouldn't go to a surgeon for a ROUTINE physical exam...

However, upon being referred for surgery from your primary care physician to a surgeon (also a Medical Doctor and Physician), if he/she did not do a pre-surgery exam they are one lousy (and potentially negligent) Surgeon/Physician/Doctor.

Neurosurgery is a specialty (and neuro a subspecialty of surgery), just as Family Practice or Internal Medicine or Pediatrics. They are ALL physicians.

[xultar]

40. Not really. Sorry to break it to you. They are usually distinguished as different.

I'm not stupid...as you keep trying to infer.

[hlthe2b]

49. NO, Xultar

I don't believe you are at all stupid--just misinformed. There is no crime in that. Have a nice day.

[The Minus World]

63. Titles

There is a distinction between surgeons and general practitioners, as you are suggesting with this statement. However, both are considered physicians.

[xultar]

32. I BELIEVE YOU ARE WRONG. FROM THE DICTIONARY. Please post apology...

Main Entry: phy·si·cian
Pronunciation: f&-'zi-sh&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English phisicien, fisicien, from Anglo-French, from phisique medicine
1 : a person skilled in the art of healing; specifically : one educated, clinically experienced, and licensed to practice medicine as

usually distinguished from surgery

2 : one exerting a remedial or salutary influence

I'd like my apology in a separate post please

:rofl:

Deep down you were trying to say I was stupid. Sorry to break it to you dear but I'm not.

[hlthe2b]

46. Surgeons are physicians

From the Bureau of Labor Statistics, but feel free to go to AMA or elsewhere.
http://stats.bls.gov/oco/ocos074.htm

Surgeons. Surgeons are physicians who specialize in the treatment of injury, disease, and deformity through operations. Using a variety of instruments, and with patients under general or local anesthesia, a surgeon corrects physical deformities, repairs bone and tissue after injuries, or performs preventive surgeries on patients with debilitating diseases or disorders. Although a large number perform general surgery, many surgeons choose to specialize in a specific area. One of the most prevalent specialties is orthopedic surgery: the treatment of the musculoskeletal system. Others include neurological surgery (treatment of the brain and nervous system), cardiovascular surgery, otolaryngology (treatment of the ear, nose, and throat), and plastic or reconstructive surgery. Like primary care and other specialist physicians, surgeons also examine patients, perform and interpret diagnostic tests, and counsel patients on preventive health care.

[xultar]

50. Buhwawawa! You had to go to the Bureau of Labor Statistics....Buhwawawa! a DOT GOV....

Fuckin bureau of labor statistics do that for their own purposes....GOV. You had to go all the fuck the way over there.

PUHLEEZ You aren't even worth my time.

[Maiden England]

65. I may have qualified in the UK, but my degree covers both

Medicine and Surgery, and both are specifically listed on my degree. I trained in both and had to do rotations in both, and I seriously doubt its that different in the US, especially since my licensing exam to work over here, also covers both clinical areas. (Which BTW is the same exam US medical students have to do to become licensed).

[Individualist]

64. And he's being paid by Conservative News Network

That alone tells me everything I need to know about his credibility. You may have also noticed that MSM is emphasizing his critical condition following surgery. They fail to mention the "little" detail that all patients who undergo brain surgery are listed as critical during the postop period.

[xultar]

25. He's a neuro-suregon...

[bigtree]

35. he's doing a remote diagnosis based on thin info

I'd wait for Tim's doctor to speak before offering up any scenario about his condition and prognosis

[xultar]

42. True. I'm not doubting that but he was the first to say it wasn't a stroke.

And brain surgery is a weeks to months type of recovery in most instances. He wasn't stepping out on a limb.

[napi21]

9. A statement on cspan just now said that a statement was being

prepared to announce Sen. Johnson's condition and surgical procedure sometime today. Since this was read at around 8:30 Am, I would expect to hear something before noon.

[xultar]

13. Well...for brain surgery weeks would be acceptable. He's not caring for

Johnson so let's get it from the doctors who are on the case.

[PassingFair]

22. I'm going down to the hospital to make sure EVERY MEASURE

is taken to prolong his life.



Who's with me?

[DainBramaged]

31. Fuck the Conservative News Network, they are speculating as usual

CNN doesn't have someone at his bedside. Bullshit on their bastardization of the news. Only Jack Cafferty has any cred there.

I'd rather watch paint dry than those F-word wannabees.

[in_cog_ni_to]

33. I'd REALLY like to know why no information is being released on what's actually wrong with him.

We know he had BRAIN surgery. If it was an aneurysm, why not just say so? If it was something else, why not just say so? WHY are they being so secretive? That makes things worse as far as people speculating about what happened.:(

Just the facts ma'am, just the facts.

[cali]

41. It's been less than 24 hours since

he fell ill, less than 12 since he had surgery. It is not at all unusual that they haven't released more information. As I said upthread, it's likely the docs will hold a press conference sometime today.

[xultar]

44. Diagnosis is - Cerebral arteriovenous malformation

[maine_raptor]

52. Translation, Please?

You know, for us "little" people. :rofl:

[xultar]

53. I threw it into wiki and well it is a problem with the blood vessels that cause bleeding.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_arteriovenous_malformation

[in_cog_ni_to]

55. Here's an explanation:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000779.htm

[in_cog_ni_to]

54. Thank you. I've watch CNN and C-SPAN for specifics and neither gave any.

I hope he's OK.:(

[xultar]

56. Condition that has something to do with weakened blood vessels that end up bleeding...

sort of different from an aneurysm.

[in_cog_ni_to]

60. Thanks. I Googled it.

This could have been deadly, depending on where the weak vessel is located in the brain.. It sounds like Senator Johnson got lucky.

[LittleClarkie]

69. He was also lucky that it was caught quickly

Still and all, bleeding on the brain is not good.

[AlinPA]

37. Specter had brain surgery and was out a long time, months. nt

[Pab Sungenis]

45. And Specter chaired one of the most important committees while incapacitated, too.

There's no need for Senator Johnson, or Senator Thomas for that matter, to resign simply due to ill health. They can fill out their term, and if they are too ill when they are up for re-election, they can opt not to run again or their health will become a legitimate campaign issue.

Senators' terms are long enough that a few months of treatment for a stroke or leukemia are not eating up enough of their term to render them completely useless.

[Ganja Ninja]

58. And look at how long Strom Thurmond served and ...

Jesse Helms. Neither of those guys had any brain cells. And lets not get started on the Dear Leader's lack of gray matter.

[elehhhhna]

51. Look up John Stroger in Chicago-- he still got a paycheck while in a coma.

He even signed official documents!

[La_Fourmi_Rouge]

66. Strom Thurmond's cadaver had privileges!

I seem to remember his acolytes wheeling 'Ol Strom into the Senate on a hand-truck. Live long and prosper, Senator Johnson!

[LittleClarkie]

67. If he has stroke-like aphasia

The speech therapy could take a while.