Which is better: Assimilation or Inclusion?

[Cascadian]

America has always been a nation of immigrants and even though this is a hot topic these days, it begs to ask the question. Is assimilation better than inclusion? In the old days, immigrants came to this country and brought some of their culture and language with them. However, in time they blended with the American melting pot. They really had no choice but to adapt to their new homeland. Today, I think immigrants are more keen to maintain their culture and language and pass it on to the younger generation. Great example of this is our growing Hispanic population. I will venture to say that Spanish will become an second official language of America after English ever becomes official in 20-30 years time. I am more inclined to think that assimilation is an outdated concept and it does not sound all friendly or sensitive. In fact, I think of Star Trek's Borgs who assimilate their victims into the Borg collective (No. I am not a Trekkie! I just used that as an example!). I think we need to adapt the ways of inclusion and turn the melting pot into a mosiac. A patchwork of numerous cultures and backgrounds. It is a lot more relevent to our growing globalization than people having to conform to the American culture whatever it really is.

So you're turn. What do you think?


John

[Selatius]

1. Given almost no progress on controlling borders, I think it's time we accept fundamental realities.

I see no choice but to adopt Spanish as a major spoken language in the US if there is no real change. With relatively no control over immigration in the US, the easiest thing to do, politically speaking, is to learn a 2nd language.

There has been no political will to actually enforce the borders, and the waiting line for legal immigrants is several years long. This has been a great advantage for businesses looking to break up labor unions and destroy the wages of workers.

If the US had controls on ports, airports, and the borders as robust as Western Europe has, there would not even be a discussion at all between assimilation and inclusion.

[Cascadian]

2. California and the Southwest states should be bilingual.

These places historically have had a Hispanic population and heritage. " They didn't cross the border, the border crossed them!" I see no reason why they should be make Spanish an official language. Forget all those arguements about what the problems Canada is having with the French speakers in Quebec or Belgium with their French and Flemish-speaking peoples. Let us just face the facts that the Spanish language is a fact of life in America. There are generations of Californians that never spoke English until they went to school. Spanish is their first language that's why. America will not be weakened if everyone starts learning Spanish, having signs in both Spanish and English, and the National Anthem sung in Spanish. It may make us actually stronger in the long run.

[Selatius]

3. I generally am ambivalent on the issue of whether it will make the Union "stronger"

History seems to offer as many examples of nations balkanizing over ethnic/religious/cultural differences as there examples of nations that end up becoming successful "multinational states." I guess Switzerland is the best example, but their form of government is far more decentralized than ours with better social spending priorities.

Our system tends to force centralization more than anything, and compared to Switzerland, we're leaving the poor behind, and there seems to be a relationship between the political stability of a country and rates of poverty, which is rising in the US with the end of unions and the rampant use of illegal immigrants to keep wages as low as possible. I fear it could contribute to an underclass of poor people and minorities resentful of a government that they perceive as hostile or simply uncaring.

[Cascadian]

4. If America could pull off being like Switzerland...

More decentralized with a more direct democracy with better social priorities and being a non-aligned country, we would be a better and stronger country than we are now. Regardless of how many languages our people speak.


Just my opinion.


John

[Maddy McCall]

5. Even in the past, when Italians, Chinese, Slavic people...

and other cultural groups arrived in the United States, they held on to their cultures--and often the U.S. culture had to adapt to immigrant ways.

Example: Labor Day? Thank European immagrants who held on to the "blue Monday" ritual of not showing up for work.

I don't think that the willingness for some immigrants to retain their culture is anything new...it's pretty much always been that way.

[Hippo_Tron]

6. Dumb question, is it possible to gain any great wealth or power in the US without speaking English?

Assuming that you didn't carry over said wealth or power from another country already.

Seems to me this has always been the case even though we've always had immigrants coming from many different nations. And throughout our history those who wanted to get ahead in this nation had to learn our language. So I don't see why all of a sudden we're going to have to learn Spanish, because the wealthy and the powerful will always be English speaking thus giving immigrants incentive to learn our language if they ever want to get ahead.

We had large immigrant populations in the 19th and 20th century and we're certainly not speaking German or Irish.

Can someone explain to me why this is different?

[Selatius]

7. In answer to your first question, most likely not.

In answer to your second question, I am guessing some say this is different now because the immigration is largely illegal immigration. I generally am not sure I buy that, though. My main concern, really, is clamping down on border security, but there appears to be no political will on apart of both Democrats and Republicans to solve the issue. They've been a joke.

And the situation is helping to drive down wages for workers in urban areas.

[Hippo_Tron]

8. We need to re-negotiate NAFTA to force Mexico to allow unions

And we need to prosecute businesses that hire illegal immigrants. Those two things will solve the problem overnight. Border security needs to be directed at preventing terrorists from getting into the country.

[Selatius]

9. Unfortunately, I don't think Congress has the political will for that.

Border security has been a joke in America since the 1960s.

Operation Gatekeeper, while promising and launched under Clinton, only covers parts of the California border, and that's it. It could be used as a model to secure all the borders.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gatekeeper

The other more massive operation, and certainly more controversial by today's standards, in American history with respect to cracking down on employers was Operation Wetback back in 1956 under Eisenhower.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wetback

[Hippo_Tron]

10. Of course they don't, but I can dream can't I?

[xchrom]

11. because of where we sit geographically -- this was always

going to be a bilingual country -- english and spanish.

we can adapt to that fact -- or we can fall apart.

spanish has been spoken here by large numbers of people since before the founding of the country.

latino culture is as much a part of the american landscape as euro culture is -- there is simply a reluctance on the part of the euro culture to recognize.

and no country is as homogenous as it imagines itself to be anyway.
that's a myth.

the french don't comprise just one people -- through their history they've brought in all kinds of folk -- and the language we hear today is an amalgamation of those years -- and it will continue to be that way.

[izzie]

12. I think it is about the same.

Big cities plus some small places, had large parts that were almost 'little some where else'. These all left their mark on us and these people blended in but kept some things that became Am. just as these things always did. The sum total of our culture are what was here and what comes in and we like and keep. All new people in the country add to this. There has always been some that could not do this and in fact I recall a man who said his father sent his mother back to Italy as she kept saying the USA was not like 'home'. Look at history of Manchester, NH, Lowell, Ma and Sanford Maine to see what happened in small cities that had people from away living with each other and what happened. Americans have always been a thing of the mind which we have shipped world wide and that is what most came for. Even some people here for 100's of years can not take that and want things to stay as they were or think they were and never will be.