4-year-old suspended after hugging teacher's aide

[jus_the_facts]

http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2006/12/12/wtf/doc457de3ed145e0488034828.txt


*SNIP*
By Associated Press

WACO, Texas -- School administrators gave a 4-year-old student an in-school suspension for inappropriately touching a teacher's aide after the pre-kindergartner hugged the woman.

A letter from La Vega school district administrators to the student's parents said that the boy was involved in "inappropriate physical behavior interpreted as sexual contact and/or sexual harassment" after he hugged the woman and he "rubbed his face in the chest of (the) female employee" on Nov. 10.

DaMarcus Blackwell, the father of the boy who attends La Vega Primary School, said he filed a complaint with the district. He said that his son doesn't understand why he was punished.

"When I got that letter, my world flipped," Blackwell said in a story in Sunday's editions of the Waco Tribune-Herald.

After Blackwell filed a complaint, a subsequent letter from the district said the offense had been changed to "inappropriate physical contact" and removed references of sexual contact or sexual harassment from the boy's file.


....WACKO WACO...just DAMN! :crazy:

[seriousstan]

1. Was he doing the "motorboat"?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5471002875666010691&q=wedding+crashers+motorboat&hl=en

[jus_the_facts]

2. kick

[Norquist Nemesis]

3. My bets are that there is more to this story

Much more. My suspicions go first to the teacher's aide who likely would have been the one to report it.

I'd lay odds that there's something more to this, though. Vendetta against the parents, maybe? :shrug:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

4. My Son Is 3. Lord Help Any Teacher, Admin Or Otherwise That Ever Punishes Him In Such A Way.

If anyone ever pulls some sort of extremist crap like that with my son they better be prepared to deal with me.

Let them try. Just let them try. Let's see what happens. Mother fuckers.

:mad:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

5. What would you do if your son sexually assaulted somebody?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

6. ROFLMAO!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

:silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

7. You'd laugh about it?

:shrug:

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

10. Doesn't answer my question.

What's with the personal attack?

[zreosumgame]

13. stop asking stupid questions, the laughing might stop

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

19. If it's such a stupid question...

how come nobody's willing to answer it?

[seabeyond]

24. i see a few answers. you just refuse the answer n/t

[jeanarrett]

119. Because most 3 and 4 year olds are incapable

of sexual assault. There. Question answered.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

120. Unfortunately, that's untrue.

See below.

[jeanarrett]

121. Key word, here "most." n/t

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

11. At four years old?

I don't think I could stop laughing either. Count the years. Four.

My first guess would be that the accuser is nuts.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

14. Yes.

4 year olds can and do commit sexual assault. There are, I'd suspect, thousands of children all across the country in foster care and group homes and protective custody and such for just that sort of thing.

[zreosumgame]

18. well I suspect you of eating lead

and I have just as documentation of it as you have for your ignorant comment.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

23. Ignorant?

"Ignorant" is when somebody ignores important information that they don't want to deal with.

Kids of all ages do these things, anybody who helps or even learns about troubled kids knows it. Pretending it doesn't happen is ignorance.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seabeyond]

20. 4 yr olds? prove it. bet you wont find one 4 yr old in foster care

for committing sexual assault. just thow out a bogus argument as fact and actually expect people to take you seriously? prove it

[Blue_In_AK]

83. My male cousin and I used to play "doctor"

back when I was approximately five and he was approximately seven. It never even occurred to me to think of it as a sexual assault. We were just kids playing. Is there something wrong with me for not reporting him and making his life hell. Puh-leeze.

[seabeyond]

88. why wouldnt you equally be reported? cause you are the girl?

exploration. what gets me is as a female and the seriousness of sexual assault in our culture, we would allow it to be denigrated to a four yr old male having so much power over an adult female as to actually be able to sexually assault her. for me, that so empowers males and make females powerless. it is an insult.... to say the very least

[Blue_In_AK]

94. I agree. n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

93. This is normal behaviour.

Now lets say you're an adult, and you catch two kids doing it, one of whom is crying.

Do you not report it?

[seabeyond]

98. nOOOOOOOOOOO.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

100. You don't report it?

You're familiar with mandatory reporting, right?

[seabeyond]

108. throw me in jail...... are you friggin serious.

as a parent you are so powerless you could not handle this situation. not only would my brothers and i be able to sit down, discuss and handle,.... we would also have such a kick ass learning experience from it..... it would be a higher in it. firstly

secondly, am i charging both children particpating, or are we just going after the male?

and thirdly.... lets use the actual event without any crying, wouldnt i have to report that, charge both children regqardless if there was any crying

fourth.... why dont we simply let social services raise our kids

and fifth..... check out those child psychology books and see how normal this is for that age

then i will tell you about my failure as a parent and citizen when i found my niece (11) kissing my son (8) when he didnt want to and how i didnt call child services on my niece

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

115. Are you being purposefully obtuse?

"am i charging both children particpating, or are we just going after the male?"

Nobody's talking about charging anybody with anything. I've already explained this, multiple times.

"lets use the actual event without any crying, wouldnt i have to report that, charge both children regqardless if there was any crying"

You'd report the incident. You wouldn't charge anybody with anything. Are you familiar with the difference between filing an incident report, and charging somebody with a crime?

"heck out those child psychology books ad see how normal this is for that age"

Sexual curiosity is perfectly normal. Sexual abuse is rare, but it certainly happens.

[seabeyond]

124. simply.... you are wrong. as another said, you have made up your mind

i am off to pick up my children

[Blue_In_AK]

106. I would want to determine why one was crying first

before reporting. The kids might be having a dispute that had nothing to do with the doctor game.

But back to the 4-year-old and the teacher's aide, I agree with whoever it was that posted here who said that if the aide was uncomfortable, she should have just calmly told the little boy that it's inappropriate to nuzzle in a grownup lady's boobies. Kind of like you advise little boys (and girls, too) that it's inappropriate to masturbate in public.

It's the hysteria over some of this stuff that's bothering me ... not that sexual assaults don't occur among young kids ... but just because there is some kind of sexual contact doesn't "necessarily" mean that it's something to be punished for.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

109. If the teacher was uncomfortable...

and thought it was inappropriate, she did the right thing by getting him to stop and filing the report. He'll probably never do anything again, but if he does, at least there's a record. If the kid does have a problem, and he is being abused, then there's this to go on. The report is in his own best interest.

"doesn't "necessarily" mean that it's something to be punished for. "

It's not like she's pressing charges or sueing the family.

[Blue_In_AK]

116. Being suspended is punishment...

...and what was most likely a perfectly innocent hug, albeit maybe a little more exuberant than the aide was prepared for, has turned into something for which the little boy must now feel shame. Apparently that works for you; it doesn't for me.

Your mind is made up, so I'm going on to another thread now.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

117. Oy.

They gave him In School Suspension because they couldn't get a hold of the parents. I don't necessarily agree with that, but I think 4 year olds are too young to be in school in the first place.

But the parents aren't upset about the ISS, they're upset about the incident report and the student's record. That's something the school did perfectly right.

[seabeyond]

12. a 3 yr old sexually assault an adult? lol are you saying us women

are so ultimately weak and helpless, we can sexually be assualted by a three year old. do you have any concept the absurdity and the insult that is to any and all female.

k

firstly

secondly, my 9 yr old still nestles his head around my breasts as we hug each other..... tough shit. i have breasts, they are there. he needs a hug, he gets it. NOTHING sexual about it. and he hugs about anyone else that comes around be it male or female.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

15. Well...

The woman claims she was sexually assaulted. Are you saying she made it up?

[seabeyond]

21. yaaaaa...... n/t bah hahahahaha

[Solon]

37. Actually, I have no problem calling it what it is...

she made it up, the sexual part anyways, its a figment of her imagination, the kid rubbed his face in her breast, big friggen deal, most likely he was hungry, even after weaning kids will still use the "old" signals to indicate stuff like that. It could also be a signal that he may feel safe with her, breasts are a comfort to kids that age, after all.

[seabeyond]

41. "breasts are a comfort to kids that age" and older, wink.... but what

i want to know is why didnt this teacher take the "position" that they have been taught, turn hip to side on taking a hug and how did any 4 yr old reach her breast to "nuzzle" them. at best the child should have been no higher than her stomach. i dont see how the four yr old got to the breasts.

[Solon]

66. I would say she kneeled down...

That's the only way he could have reached them. I mentioned earlier that I have a nephew who is about 2 and a half, and, one time, he ran up to me to give me a hug, I was unprepared, and he, being JUST the right height, grabbed me around the waist and slammed his head, accidentally, right into my balls. I pushed him away and doubled over, of course, that hurt like HELL! Anyways, he was confused at first, then he realized I was in pain, and wanted to kiss the "owie" to make it all better, I then had to assure him, with tears in my eyes, that I was alright and he didn't need to kiss it to get better. Instead, he did the next best thing, and ran to his mom in the living room to get ice, he knows that helps too.

Now, apparently, I was sexually assaulted without knowing it. By the way, I learned all about the "hip forward" maneuver after that. :)

[seabeyond]

69. slammed his head, accidentally... you had me busting up

that is funny. being a woman with breasts... when i kneel for a hug, it is cheek to cheek. now my 9 yr old is perfect hieght, he gets breast, so what. but that age...... she had to position so it was there. i have a teacher friend here in the panhandle of texas that told me they were told to hug a particular way, to avoid all this shit. just all this is bullshit

[Midlodemocrat]

90. I'm sorry, I don't mean to laugh, but the exact same thing happened

to my brother with my son. To this day, I don't know how that man fathered a child after the head butt my son gave him.

[Solon]

107. Well that's reassuring, I guess...

By the way, thanks for laughing, I appreciate it. :)

[Midlodemocrat]

111. I'm sorry. I just remember the look on my poor brother's face.

I'm glad you're okay.

[Solon]

129. Thanks, by the way...

He was so cute after the fact, he kept on asking me if I was OK, he was like, "You OK?", he said it like ten times. He was all sad and stuff, and asked his mom if he should be in timeout, we assured him it was an accident and I was OK.

Here's a picture of the little monster:



He's wearing my Rams coat, and Cardinals World Series champions cap. A little big on him.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

128. "Comfort"..

"..ah, yes, her friendly bust gives promise of pneumatic bliss."

As in my head I hear WCFields reading TSEliot.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

43. A figment of her imagination?

Were you there?

You do realize you're only getting the father's side of the story, right?

[Solon]

55. Look, if she reads something sexual in a 4 year old's actions...

That's her problem, not his.

[zreosumgame]

16. that type of poster is as bad as Asscrack

going around covering statues and OMG the horror of actual real live breasts! Sends them running LOL!

[seabeyond]

22. oh my.... we have become an odd odd people over the breast

i am really just flabbergasted. must be young, or without child, or or or.... male? lol lol. cant be a mama

[zreosumgame]

26. well, even being an ass man myself, i do like them :)

and have never really been as afraid of them as it seems we are 'supposed' to be

[seabeyond]

28. they will take a man down

sigh. lol lol. it is funny. but hey, i guess i am glad yawl enjoy so much

[zreosumgame]

31. just as often as possible

:evilgrin:

[Solon]

25. Dude, the kid is 4 years old! He CAN'T sexually assault anyone...

He simply doesn't have the maturity necessary to even understand such actions, period. That's why everyone is laughing at you. In cases like this, I assume the one who filed the complaint is a pervert of some sort, maybe has some repressed pedophilia, because they read something sexual in the actions of a 4 year old!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

27. Oh, you'd be surprised.

And it's not a laughing matter.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2899209#2899367

[seabeyond]

32. ok.... this is so beyond not labeling htis child with sexual assault

that would be making the victim the perpetrator and that is wrong, horrible and wrong. this is not a child committing sexual assualt. this is a child that has been abused and needs help. this was on another child that could not react thru experience and knowledge and age to handle this situation and called for adults to step in

the hug to an adult woman is totally different than this. and any woman that could not of handled the situation way better, shame on her. to label the child as sexual assault is simply wrong

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

36. The child is a victim and a perpetrator.

He needs to be helped, yes. Other people need to be protected as well.

"and any woman that could not of handled the situation way better"

And how should it have been handled? She did the right thing by filing a report. Let's say the kid continues to assault other students. What do you think would happen if nobody kept a record about it? Lets say this kid did something to your kid, and then you find out he had a history of inappropriate behaviour, but nobody wanted to keep a record of it? How would that make you feel?

[Solon]

42. Newsflash, kids cannot, in any way, especially when pre-pubescent...

be considered perps in cases of sexual assault, they are VICTIMS, period, and need, at worst, counseling.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

64. I don't know about criminal law.

But they certainly can do it. Yes, usually they are the victims of abuse themselves.

"need, at worst, counseling."

Actually, as they often are victims themselves, they're often taken into protective custody, put in foster care or group homes, and sometimes need medication and physical restraint if they can't control their behaviour. Counseling is the least that they need.

[Solon]

84. So you are concerned only with punishment?

Look, it may be the parents who abused the child, whoever it was, they need to be taken away from them, after that, they NEED counseling to function in society, drugging them up and locking them up will NOT help.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

89. No, I've no idea where you got that from.

I'm utterly against punishment.

What I'm for is- careful supervision, reporting all problems even if it's only suspect, and careful record keeping.

"drugging them up and locking them up will NOT help."

Drugging and restraining is a last course measure. It beats the alternative.

[Solon]

118. As far as I can tell, this isn't a reportable offense...

I can see it now, 14 years from now, the kid is turned down from going to the college he wants to go to because of an incident of "sexual assault" in his student report when he was FOUR!

At worst, the teacher's aide should have told him that it wasn't appropriate, and leave it at that. Not EVERYTHING a child does should be reported, especially if its more based on a teacher's stupidity than his own.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

125. Solon, these records are sealed.

It's not something college admission boards are going to see.

Not everything a student does that's inappropriate should be reported, no. Inappropriate and sexual, yeah that should be reported.

[Solon]

127. What is sexual here?

That's what I'm trying to figure out, you claim its "sexually inappropriate" behavior, yet, to the kid, it can NOT be. In fact, he doesn't know the boundaries for such behavior, simply because he hasn't been socialized about it yet. This is a teaching opportunity, nothing more than that. Also, to be honest, I don't really trust schools to keep records sealed, and there are ALWAYS exceptions to that type of stuff.

This seems like a classic case of an adult misreading a child's behavior, and making a big stink out of it for no reason.

[Solon]

34. There is a distinct difference between evidence of sexual abuse...

Like that post, and innocent curiosity. I have a nephew, who is 2 and a half, and when his mother picks him up, he lays his head on her breast, in fact, he does that with ALL women who picks him up, was he sexually abused? I don't think so. Besides, in cases like the one described, the kid is STILL innocent, they are the victim in those cases. Kids at those ages are curious about a lot of things, and haven't had appropriate behavior hammered into them yet, so they can't be GUILTY of anything, understood?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

38. It's entirely possible that the kid was just nuzzling.

But I'm going to give the teacher's aide the benefit of the doubt, she was the one there, and I going to have to assume that she's not stupid.

[Solon]

39. Considering you would call 4 year olds perps, I'm going to say...

that you do NOT know what the hell you are talking about and leave it at that.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

40. Sigh. A "perpetrator" is somebody who does a deed.

Do you agree that a small child is capable of performing an utterly inappropriate sexual attack on another person?

[seabeyond]

44. no... because the breat is not sexual to them, but a lump of fat attached

to a female body. it is like said, comfort.... love and for some children food, but in breastfeeding i believe it ultimately is comfort. it is the best of times for mamas and babies. it is not sexual. they do not have the concept. even the one with the other child and penis, it wasnt sexual exercise, it was a taught action.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

46. I'm not saying it wasn't a "taught action."

I'm asking, are they capable of doing it? And the clear answer is yes.

[seabeyond]

49. nuzzling a breast ya. is that sexual assault. NO..... n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

51. wishful thinking.

[seabeyond]

54. say what???? odd.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

57. You'd like to think that four and five year olds don't do this...

sort of thing.

So do I, but that's just not the case.

[seabeyond]

59. no.... i am around these ages, i know these ages and i know when something

is bullshit. dont tell me what i would "like" you obviously dont have a clue and you are as wrong here, as you are in so many of your other posts

[seabeyond]

53. further i want to know why you feel a female is so incapable that a

4 yr old boys is even able to assault an adult female. do you understand how pathetic that is to female?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

61. "do you understand how pathetic that is to female?"

Frankly, I think it's pathetic to assume a woman is a liar when she claims sexual assault.

Now, given the story, the student grabbed her (sexually) she pulled him off, and then reported it. There's nothing outlandish about that story, I know teachers who've had that happen to them.

[seabeyond]

63. you are wrong again. did NOT grab her. actually she is the one that

should be punished. in the state of texas the teachers are taught how to hug the kids (cause a lot fo kids love their teachers want and need hugs). this woman did not take the appropriate steps in hugging that child if he made it to her breasts. she is the one that should be fired for not following school policy. if you really want to make a to do about this

[Solon]

50. No they are NOT capable of it, that is what I'm saying here....

If we were talking about a kid that was adolescent, then we wouldn't be arguing here, but kids between the ages of 1-6 years old simply do NOT have the forethought or mental development necessary to actually commit such crimes. They don't even KNOW what is appropriate and what isn't appropriate at those ages, so how can they be guilty of something sexual in nature when they aren't capable of knowing the difference?

Look, why don't you read up on child development and child psychiatry, then we can talk, till then, why don't you just shut up about shit you don't understand.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

56. I'm not asking if they understand it, have forethought about it,

or if they know it's inappropriate, I'm asking if they can do it. And yes, unfortunately, they can.

"Look, why don't you read up on child development and child psychiatry, then we can talk, till then, why don't you just shut up about shit you don't understand."

Oh, Lord. I think you need to take your own advise. Ask any child psychiatrist if children are capable of sexually assaulting teachers or other students, they'll tell you- yes.

[seabeyond]

58. prove it. you keep making statements as factual when you are wrong

prove it.

link

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

62. I already linked it.

Do you doubt Proud2Blib's story?

Most stories will be anecdotal, since the details of these cases are confidential to protect the student.

Or would you like some references for Child Psychology texts? I'm not fond of doing other people's homework, but I was heading to the library this afternoon anyway.

[seabeyond]

65. prouds story about aother child, without any confirmation is factual

psychological study on the sexual development of children. wow...... bah hahhahahahha

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

67. I'm not understanding you post.

You believe Proud, right?

So what are you asking?

[seabeyond]

71. you spoke about what psychologists would tell us. proud is not

a psycholgist.... and that is not documented information. re read the post i responded too. you put out a statement of fact that psychlogists would say a 4 yr old is capable of sexual assault.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

73. I still can't make sense of your post.

do you doubt Proud or not?

[seabeyond]

74. the pst wasnt about proud. your post was about what psychologist say

prove psychologist say 4 year olds committ sexual assault. that is what you stated. prove it. what is not clear about that

others, including myself have already addressed the proud post

show me where a psychologist says a 4 yr old can committ sexual assault on an adult woman. that was your statement i want you to back up

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

76. Answer my question first.

I can give you a few titles when I get back from the library.

[seabeyond]

79. do i believe proud? ok. look what i posted on that thread. not

sexual assault by that chld but i went further into it. go back and read. it still has NOTHING to do with the post i was responding to about psychologists.....

[seabeyond]

80. do you have children?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

82. Yes.

You?

[seabeyond]

85. yes you have children? didnt hit my post with the question.

you have children, and after raising the kids beyond four years old, you think that a four year old is able to understnad sexuality of the breast and being turned on by it? you saw sexual comprehension from your four yr olds? i cannot believe it. it is not in the development of that age. there is a sexual cmponent of identity at that age, but not a sexuality.

i dont understand how you can give this to a four yr old after having raised kids. beyond me

and yes, of course, i have kids, why i know better.

on edit: i see my confusion. the post have gone out too far so not showing it is on that post.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

91. Are you even reading my posts?

Of course four year olds don't understand it.

They can, however, do it. And that's what we're talking about.

"i dont understand how you can give this to a four yr old after having raised kids. beyond me"

Give what to a four year old?

[seabeyond]

101. i KNOW this is what you are saying. people have explained everyway

they can...... and you are the one not understanding. it is NOT sexual assault. cannot be. you just admitted a kid doesnt see it feel it ergo cannot do IT. you teach the kid apporpriate behavior, boundaries on bodies, and later in life he will understand. you dont even teach why at this age

[Solon]

112. The "No no" areas...

That's how I was taught, according to my mom, that, and boys and girls are different, didn't learn WHY that was till much later in life.

[Solon]

72. That's post is a story about a kid who was most likely abused...

in addition to that, he had no inkling, yet, that he is abused, or that the behavior is inappropriate, period. This means two things, one is that he isn't GUILTY of anything, and second, he needs HELP. Get him away from the abuser, and get him into counseling, so that he knows that what he was doing was wrong, and what happened to him was wrong, and hopefully, he will live a normal and healthy life after the fact. You do NOT, however, PUNISH VICTIMS FOR SHIT THEY DO NOT UNDERSTAND!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

75. We're talking past each other.

We're not talking about punishing the kid. We're talking about getting him to stop.

[Solon]

92. So you tell him it isn't appropriate...

Big friggen deal, he was hugging for Christ's sake, and did what was natural for him, to get him to stop you have to TEACH him what's appropriate and what's not appropriate. Isn't that the main point of pre-school anyways, to learn socialization skills? If so, this teacher's aid failed the test and should be fired, talk about making a mountain out of a molehill.

That's the point of school, to teach kids skills they need to function in society, and hopefully, to expand their minds as well. Its not like he knocked the teacher down and forcibly rubbed his face in her breasts. Jesus H. Christ, people can be dense.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

97. I'm assuming they did tell him it was inappropriate.

They also put in on record, in case he does it again.

What's wrong with that?

"Its not like he knocked the teacher down and forcibly rubbed his face in her breasts."

Actually, that sounds to me close to what happened.

[Solon]

102. Let's consider for a second that you actually think a 4 year old can knock down an adult...

No wait, that's all I need to hear. LOL!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

105. I myself have often been knocked down by four year olds.

Particularly when I'm crouched down at their level, and they decide to charge.

[Solon]

123. I never crouch, its bad for the back anyways...

to hug a kid down on their level, the best way to do it, I found, is to get down on one knee, and they can try to bowl you over, but you usually can weather that.

[Solon]

68. If they don't have the mental development necessary then they aren't GUILTY of anything...

Look, I'm NOT saying kids that age don't do shit that is considered inappropriate at older ages, but you should NOT read things into their actions that AREN'T there.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

70. I'm not saying they should be charged with any criminal law...

I'm asking whether or not they do it.

[Solon]

81. Kids that age aren't socialized into whether something is appropriate or not...

simply because they haven't been around in society long enough to learn, nor are they of the appropriate mental age to learn, yet. So I'm trying to figure out what your malfunction is, are the actions the only thing that matter, or should intent or cause matter as well? Cause, as far as I can tell, the kid didn't do ANYTHING that can be considered sexual in nature, just because adults have a breast fixation that's sexual in nature doesn't mean that kids also have that same fixation.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

87. I agree.

They don't understand that's it's inappropriate. That's not what we're talknig about.

"Cause, as far as I can tell, the kid didn't do ANYTHING that can be considered sexual in nature, just because adults have a breast fixation that's sexual in nature doesn't mean that kids also have that same fixation."

We don't know all of what the kid did. Was nuzzling the breast the extent of it? Was he thrusting his pelvis and saying "fuck you bitch, I'm going to rape you?*" We don't know, but the the teacher's aide does, and she's the one who though it was sexual.




*yes, kids can do that too. I know a special ed teacher currently working in a special school for kids with bad behaviour. She teaches 4th grade and up, but there's a kindergarten to third in the same school and they've got the same problems. They're constantly threatening the teachers with rape and murder, throwing desks, urinating on the teachers, assaulting each other physically, and they need to be constantly supervised to make sure they don't start having sex.

[Solon]

99. So because some kids have mental or emotional problems...

All kids have these problems as well? Look, as far as I can tell, this case isn't like that, because of the simple fact that IF the kid said anything like that, it would have been reported by the school. I know you like to think the worst in kids, but I don't, I'm not that much of a pessimist, yet.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

103. No.

Because some kids have mental or emotional problems, it's possible that any kid might have a similar problem, and such thigns should be noted.

"because of the simple fact that IF the kid said anything like that, it would have been reported by the school."

Oh, not at all. Schools never report anything of the sort, to protect confidentiality. We're only hearing one side of the story here, the parent's side.

[Solon]

122. What if this kid DOESN'T have any problems...

As far as I can tell, nothing he did indicates any emotional problems, just the opposite actually, the biggest problem with kids that age, especially those with emotional or mental problems, is attachment deficiency. Kids that are neglected or abused generally do NOT like things like hugs and stuff along those lines. They become withdrawn and can react to affection in odd ways, rubbing your face in a woman's breast is NOT one of those "odd ways". Hell, as far as we know, he was rubbing his nose, gross, yes, but normal behavior for a child that age.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

126. Then there's nothing to worry about.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jus_the_facts]

52. A FOUR year old in my opinion doesn't even KNOW what that means.....

.....it's COMFORT..not SEXUAL!!! :wtf:

[WI_DEM]

9. The child is four, I doubt he knows anything about "inappropriate touching"

or sexual harrassment. There are lots of extremists out there these days.

[sniffa]

17. but now he wiLL

that'LL show LittLe mr. happyhands to keep his roman fingers to himseLf.

[Phillycat]

131. How do you know?

If the child is being molested at home, he could be mirroring those behaviors at school. Children who are sexually abused are sexualized much earlier than anyone wants to believe.

[majorjohn]

30. What's the matter with schools these days?

First there was a post about a school with a strict bathroom policy, and then another school refuses to publish a picture of a student because he was holding a sword, and now this????????

[nomo]

33. Sounds like a prime candidate for the Body Sock!

Freaky 4-year old pervert! *Hugging* the teacher's aide, what the hell was he thinking?

[Lone_Star_Dem]

35. He rubbed his face on her chest when he hugged her.

This occurred while they were either in line for the bus, or while they were on their way there, I forget which.

Either way, the aide didn't deal with it correctly. If a small child does something such as this you remind them that it's not proper to nuzzle ladies there and give them a chance to learn the boundaries. What you don't do is get a case of the vapors and run and report the kid.

[seabeyond]

48. What you don't do is get a case of the vapors... lol lol geez....

at the very least. any idea how the four yr old made it to the breasts to nuzzle. i say she had to be a part of it at least getting the breasts to nuzzling hieght

[Lone_Star_Dem]

77. You're right she had to get down to nuzzling height

I was just sitting here thinking of the number times some part of me was used as a tissue by little kids that age. It's almost an occupational hazard when you're working with little children.

[seabeyond]

96. yes.... hadnt even thought about it. rubbing that little nose, to clean

the snot. probably gorssed her out hence the over reaction. bah hahahha. that is funny. lol lol. sorry i canot see a 4 yr old assault a grown women. personally as a woman i am offended by that kinda statement.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

78. Teachers often crouch...

to address students face to face.

:shrug:

[seabeyond]

110. i have done many crouch hugs. all of them bring cheek to cheek,

NOT cheek to breast

[majorjohn]

45. That's just making the kid feel guilty for the rest of his life n/t

[jus_the_facts]

60. That was my first reaction at hearing about this.....

....but it IS WACO so I'm sure the woman is a fundie FREAK! :freak:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

86. if infact the touching was inappropriate the little boy is being sexually abused

and is acting out these behaviours.

[seabeyond]

113. i like the wiping his snot on her shirt better. that sounds more like it

rubbing face back and forth. a poster above suggested it. and really rings true....

[La Lioness Priyanka]

114. i didnt actually read what he did. my point was more if any 4 year old is acting sexually

inappropriate...its because of abuse

[youthere]

95. It reminds me of an episode of "King of Queens" where..

Carrie was watching the bosses kid and he kept grabbing her boobs.

[montanto]

104. its not inappropriate until

he gets the nipple clamps on her.

[Catherine Vincent]

130. Maybe she was showing a little too much cleavage and the kid

was mesmerized or something. :shrug:

[verse18]

132. Toni Cavanaugh Johnson, Phd is an good resource

on childhood sexual behavior. She has an excellent pamphlet called "Understanding Children's Sexual Behaviors: What's Natural and Healthy." It is great for parents as well as professionals. I work with abused kids and childhood sexual development is a topic most lay people have little knowledge about. In the pamphlet, she has behaviors related to sex and sexuality of preschoolers and K-4th graders that break down the behaviors into what is natural and healthy, what is "of concern" and when to seek professional help for the child.

I think all parents should have knowledge about sexual development in their children. Children grow up with a distorted ideas of sex and sexual behavior if they are punished or forced to suppress something that is natural and expected. Most religions attempt to suppress natural sexual urges and activities like masturbation, which is detrimental to to a person when they hit puberty and begin having sexual contact with other people.