War on Christmas vs. War on Stupidity

[Armstead]

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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16150563/

SEATAC, Wash. - All nine Christmas trees have been removed from the Seattle-Tacoma International Airport instead of adding a giant Jewish menorah to the holiday display as a rabbi had requested.

Maintenance workers boxed up the trees during the graveyard shift early Saturday, when airport bosses believed few people would notice.

.....After consulting with lawyers, port staff believed that adding the menorah would have required adding symbols for other religions and cultures in the Northwest. The holidays are the busiest season at the airport, Betancourt said, and staff didn’t have time to play cultural anthropologists....

MORE

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IMO, the whole "War on Christmas" controversy is basically stupid. But the stupidity may not be limited to the self-righteous, right-wing "defenders" of Christmas from the so-called "secular progressive" enemies of the holiday.

IMO, an example of stupidity on all sides is the decision by Sea-Tac Airport to pull down its Christmas Trees.

I believe the Rabbi had a good point that the holiday traditions of non-Christian religions also be represented. But a lawsuit? That's the kind of thing that stokes the claims by the right-wing.

A more diploimatic approach might have been for him to bite the bullet this year, and instead contact the airport to work out a plan to include a menorah for next year's holidays.

Meanwhile, the airport also seemed to be acting in a petty way. Why not put up the dang Menorah, and allow it to co-exist with the Christmas trees?

As for the worries that other religions would be slighted, the airtport likewise could have announced that they will work with a multi-faith group to have more inclusive decorations next year.

My attitude about all sides in this so-called War on Christmas is simple. "Get a Life."

[itsmesgd]

1. "war on christmas" is a flag burning, gay bashing, abortion soundbite

that the rw'ers get to break out once a year and put up like a bad fake plastic tree. They don't care, it's just a reason to rally their fascist base.

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

11. You got that right

[BOSSHOG]

2. When "christian conservatives"

are not hating, they are making shit up to go through their self flagellation martyr syndrome. If they got a life, their existence would change dramatically would it not?

[Vexatious Ape]

3. Your right.

That was very lame of that Rabbi to get his shorts all bunched up over this. And it was very petty of the airport to pull it all down. As a godless ape, I never get worked up or offended by x-mass trees--they are not really religious symbols. Now if the airport starting displaying crosses and such then maybe he'd have an legit beef. This will keep that ass-carrot Bill over at Fox news talking for the rest of the season.

[Armstead]

8. Feeding the O'Reilly Beast

[kestrel91316]

4. The airport is indeed being petty. I suspect the person at the airport

who made the decision is a fundie who thought this was the perfect opportunity show how there really IS a "war on Christmas".

Heaven forbid we put up a menorah to observe Hanukkah and maybe a pentacle in acknowledgement of Wicca, too.

[trof]

5. OK. Color me 'stupid', but

Is a Christmas tree exclusively a Christian religious symbol?

OK, we call it a Christmas tree, because that's when we put them up.
But consider these lines from a 'History of the Christmas tree' website:

"King Tut never saw a Christmas tree, but he would have understood the tradition which traces back long before the first Christmas, says David Robson, Extension Educator, Horticulture with the Springfield Extension Center. The Egyptians were part of a long line of cultures that treasured and worshipped evergreens. When the winter solstice arrive, they brought green date palm leaves into their homes to symbolize life's triumph over death.

The Romans celebrated the winter solstice with a fest called Saturnalia in honor of Saturnus, the god of agriculture. They decorated their houses with greens and lights and exchanged gifts. They gave coins for prosperity, pastries for happiness, and lamps to light one's journey through life.

Centuries ago in Great Britain, woods priests called Druids used evergreens during mysterious winter solstice rituals. The Druids used holly and mistletoe as symbols of eternal life, and place evergreen branches over doors to keep away evil spirits.

Late in the Middle Ages, Germans and Scandinavians placed evergreen trees inside their homes or just outside their doors to show their hope in the forthcoming spring. Our modern Christmas tree evolved from these early traditions."
http://www.christmas-tree.com/where.html

I've never thought of our tree as a religious symbol.
Just a seasonal one.
Maybe I'm splitting hairs here?
:shrug:

Having said that, I agree with your observations.
"Get a life."

[Armstead]

6. Not stupid -- You make a good point

The idea of decorating and celebrating trees is not merely a Christian tradition.

And I seriously doubt that Mary and Joseph went to Wal Mart to buy a plastic pine for their manger.

I just enjoy the lights. Don't care what they're on or what shape they are.

[Lilith Velkor]

7. It's a PAGAN religious symbol.

I have no problem sharing it with nonpagans, but when they try to pretend it was their symbol all along, I mock them for being ignorant.

Hey, it's a hobby. :shrug:

[Armstead]

9. All religion is a hobby

[Lilith Velkor]

12. Excellent point

:toast:

[smirkymonkey]

26. Touche!

And not a very interesting one at that.

[Dervill Crow]

13. LOL - Merry Yule! n/t

[Lilith Velkor]

14. Back atcha.

;)

[uppityperson]

22. Thank you. Just found this post after posting topic of my own asking this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2898669#2898752
Why call it a "christmas tree" then. Why not just a decorated tree?

[ItNerd4life]

10. Christmas is a National Holiday supported by the government

Either we should no longer make it a national holiday, or the government should be allowed to put up Christian symbols. I say it should no longer be a national holiday, except for me. I still want the time off. ;)

[Dervill Crow]

16. I take vacation days for pagan holidays.

And I note in the time book the names of the holidays.

[Warren DeMontague]

15. We had this thread 2 days ago, already. AND, the rabbi didn't ask for the trees to come down.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2889949

He wanted them to add a menorah. Big Fucking Deal.

[Armstead]

18. I know he didn.t ask them to be taken down

Maybe ya want to read my original post before dashing off a flame

[Warren DeMontague]

20. My point is, we've been through this. And I'm tired of this "both sides are to blame" nonsense.

There is no "both sides". And that's not a flame, that's a fact. So the guy wanted a menorah. Big deal.

[joe_sixpack]

17. In fact,

I know more than a few devout Christians who won't even put up a Christmas tree because they say it has nothing to do with the Christian religion or the bible. It seems more of a secular tradition to me, than anything else. That makes the Seattle story even more ironic. I'm sure the Rabbi who complained had a good idea that his actions would lead to this outcome. What about wreaths, and Santa Clause? Are they going to do away with those non-religious symbols of the holiday as well?

[Warren DeMontague]

21. Who is "they"?

?

[joe_sixpack]

23. They... as in

the people who are getting rid of "Oh tannenbaum" in Seattle, but could apply to anyone trying to make a political statement by ruining others enjoyment of fake conifers with twinkling, colored lights. Hence, since they are mistaking a Christmas tree for a Christian religious symbol, will they get rid of other secular symbols as well, such as wreaths, elves, Santa or possibly even candy canes? The candy cane might be misconstrued by someone suffering from myopia, as a cross like object.

[Warren DeMontague]

24. Who demanded that anyone "get rid" of anything here?

Who is "ruining" others enjoyment of the Holiday? Where are these Grinch-like folks? Do you have any links to back this up?

[joe_sixpack]

25. From the article

According to the posted article. The Rabbi who made the request for the menorah in the airport.

Quote: "He had hired a lawyer and threatened to sue if the Port of Seattle didn’t add the menorah next to the trees, which had been festooned with red ribbons and bows."

Now, Rabbis are intelligent people. What do you think the Rabbi thought the result might be? Could he have reasonably believed that some authority would jump up, go into the supply room and pull out a menorah? Did the Port of Seattle have it in their current budget to purchase one? or was the Rabbi going to donate it? If his was simply a friendly gesture designed simply to bring "light" and more enjoyment to visitors to the airport, why threaten to sue? I maintain that this result is perfectly acceptable to him. Both religious and non religious travelers who might have enjoyed the christmas trees now do not have that option based on a response that he surely could have predicted.

[Warren DeMontague]

27. Maybe you didn't read the whole article.

The rabbi, Elazar Bogomilsky, had threatened a lawsuit if his request was denied. He said the airport's decision to remove the trees was appalling.

"For many people, the Christmas tree is an important symbol of the season. Our goal was to include a menorah in the airport as well so that we could bring extra light with Hannukah's universal message of hope," Bogomilsky wrote Monday on behalf of his organization, Chabad of Greater Seattle. "Our discussion of possible legal action was never about removing Christmas trees — it was about protecting the right to add menorahs."

Do you have reason to believe the Rabbi was lying?

You know, with some plywood and paint, a budget of maybe $20 and a couple of hours, they could have come up with an acceptable Menorah. They could have asked the Rabbi for a menorah. Or, they could have told the Rabbi "We appreciate where you're coming from, let us see what we can do". They did none of those things- rather, they got pissy and petulant, yanked all the Christmas Trees down, and proceeded to make a big stink about it to the media.

[elperromagico]

19. The War on Christmas is over. That's the good news.

The bad news is that the wars on every other December holiday continue in earnest.