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Pamela Troy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 03:42 PM
Original message
At Least We Aren't Nazis!
Edited on Tue Dec-05-06 03:57 PM by Pamela Troy
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/04/us/04detain.html?ex=1165899600&en=d1a72bbb2b02b8bb&ei=5065&partner=MYWAY

The late British naturalist Gerald Durrell was a passionate and an articulate advocate for the humane treatment of captive animals. He considered it important that zoos care, not only for the physical state of their charges, but for their emotional and mental well-being and he was very good at illustrating -- with profound anger -- the brutality of confining sentient beings in spaces that literally drove them mad with boredom and loneliness. One of the most heartbreaking images from his writing, and one that has remained with me since I read it many years ago, was of an orangutan he saw once in a zoo.

Orangutans are valuable items for a zoo, so I have no doubt it was fed regularly on a healthy diet and cared for and monitored by a qualified vet. But this intelligent and beautiful animal had been kept for years in a simple cage with a concrete floor. It had only one plaything -- a piece of paper. It sat for hours on the floor of its cage, putting the piece of paper on its head, taking it off, putting it back, taking it off, putting it back...

I suppose there are people who would find this image funny. Back in my college days, the word for human beings that empty of empathy was “sociopaths.”

Which brings us to our country’s indefensible treatment of Jose Padilla.

Some online readers may recall past comments I’ve made about this case and on the stunningly casual attitude I’ve encountered towards the government holding an American citizen in highly secretive conditions, without formal charges and without meaningful access to a lawyer. "Because the conditions of his imprisonment are secret, we don’t know whether Padilla has been tortured or not,” I observed once. Another time I asked, "Given that the administration does not rule out the use of torture, and has used it on prisoners who are NOT being held in secret, why in the world would I assume ‘enemy combatants’ held in secret would not be tortured?"

Well, we have at least part of the answer now, via a video released to THE NEW YORK TIMES. It’s given us a telling glimpse, not only of the manner in which Mr. Padilla has been tortured, but of our all-American approach to rationalizing torture. We aren’t EXACTLY like the Third Reich in that we don’t just cram prisoners into camps, and allow starvation, exposure, over-work, and disease to take its course, (with occasional help from the “cleansing” properties of bullets or a powerful insecticide.) We aren’t EXACTLY like the Soviets either. OUR staggeringly enormous system of prisons is a bit more open and apparently puts more of an emphasis on the sexual humiliation of inmates than the puritanical USSR did. And in any event, back then he was an “Enemy Combatant” rather than a criminal suspect, so the torture of Padilla indicated in that video doesn’t involve him being gang-banged front and back by his fellow inmates after having his teeth knocked out. We aren’t EXACTLY like our Latin American friends in Chile or Guatemala or El Salvador. As far as we know, electric shocks were not applied to Padilla’s genitals and he was not water-boarded. He was not forced to watch his wife being raped, and did not end up in a mass grave on the countryside.

No, all that happened to Padilla was, he was kept for almost two years in a bare cell, with almost no human contact other than his interrogators, under constant electronic surveillance, with blackened windows, no clock or calendar, nothing to read, and nothing to sleep on other than a steel frame. When he was taken out for a root canal, he was outfitted with dark goggles and earphones so that he could neither see nor hear.

And THAT’S just what they’re willing to admit to, what they’ve declassified. According to this article, “Federal prosecutors have asked the judge to forbid Mr. Padilla’s lawyers from mentioning the circumstances of his military detention during the trial, maintaining that their accusations could ‘distract and inflame the jury.’”

It’s little wonder that Padilla was described by his keepers as being as docile as “a piece of furniture,” that his lawyers complain he is now too mentally destroyed to assist in his own defense. The effects of that kind of isolation and sensory deprivation, even among less intelligent creatures than human beings, are well documented by science. If I kept a dog or a cat under such conditions, confining it by itself in a small locked room, its only contact with hostile keepers, the fact that I also fed it regularly and occasionally sedated it so it could be taken to the vet would not greatly impress anyone who gave a damn about the decent treatment of animals. I would justifiably be denounced as either too sadistic or too stupid to be entrusted with the care of any living thing more sophisticated than a beetle.

But you can bet your bottom dollar that many Americans here and elsewhere will react to what that video reveals by feigning wide-eyed incomprehension about what has been done to this man. They’ll snigger. They’ll “comically” mime horror, dabbing at their eyes and mocking both his suffering and the outrage it has inspired. They’ll pretend to believe that being fed regularly and having one’s teeth cared for makes up for being driven insane. They’ll emote and beat their chest and declare themselves relieved that this dangerous man is being confined, even though so far no solid evidence has been presented for this presumed “danger” beyond the government’s bare assertions.

To read about how Padilla has been treated, and blandly attempt to justify it on the grounds that we are afraid, that Jose Padilla is a scary, scary man that this is an example of our government “protecting us” from him is beneath contempt.

Only the basest coward would truly believe that giving the government the power to destroy a human being’s mind in this manner is the best way to protect Americans.

And God help us, we seem to have far, far, too many of those cowards among us these days.

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Jcrowley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. K&R
This should be at the top of the reading list to see how far we've fallen. So very troubling.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
2. K&R
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
3. K&R
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JacksonWest Donating Member (561 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
4. Great Post.
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
5. Welcome to DU...
It never ceases to amaze me what has become "acceptable" these days.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
6. k&r
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
7. that's pretty disgusting
is this guy that dangerous?
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. No. But yer gubmint is.
THAT GUY is a U.S. citizen.
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thingfisher Donating Member (445 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. This is where the National Security State has led us!
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. He may be dangerous...
but no one is so dangerous that we need to trash the constitution to deal with them. This is the fundamental difference between us and the freepers and neocons. They think that to defeat the "enemy" we must become like them.
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Morgana LaFey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #7
20. wrong question
He's not been convicted. Or tried. Or even properly charged.

The apparent complete destruction of his mind happened before all that -- it happened just because we had him in our custody and decided we COULD do all that.

Whether he's dangerous or not -- or was -- doesn't even enter into the equation. We don't destroy minds because a person is "dangerous." We put them in maximum security prison. AFTER we charge, try and convict him, not before.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. And not only that...
Our government has treated Jose Padilla worse than it treated Ted Bundy or John Wayne Gacy or Jeffery Dahmer or Richard Speck or any other of the most notorious psychopathic killers of recent history.

Those four twisted individuals were given access to counsel, public trials, and humane treatment.

Make no mistake. Jose Padilla was the test case for political repression. He is a member of a minority group, a practitioner of an unpopular religion, a man with a criminal record. The Bushies hoped that the public would accept his horrific treatment because he was a "terrorist" (although only accused, not tried and convicted) with a shady past.

Sad to say, the Bushies were right on this count. I wrote a letter to the NYT asking why they didn't raise non-stop hell when the conditions of his incarceration were first revealed over three years ago. Only we "loonie leftists" cared.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
11. I'm not a religious person but for about six months
I made a point of saying the rosary once a day dedicted to those who are imprisoned in Gitmo and other places

CBS "Sixty Minutes II" had a special on Gitmo and spent time interviewing the prison officials there, and I found those people to be so chilling, so devoid of empathy.

The Nazis at least killed their conquests in relatively short order. We have people imprisoned who are like the orangutan you mention - they are being fed properly and so can "thrive" for decades, all the while having their minds destroyed deliberately and without any regret on the part of their captors..
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
12. Fantastic post!
Beautifully written and devastatingly on target. Please, please write more.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
13. kick
for one of the best pieces I've ever seen on DU
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
14. We need to impanel another Nuremberg trial to handle the 100's, if not 1000's
of war crimes that we have committed. What the hell is wrong with us? This is not America.:grr:
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
15. one of the best pieces I've ever read here
thank you. That should be published on DU's front page, or as a LTTE, or something -- it's perfect.

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laundry_queen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
16. K&R n/t
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nam78_two Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
17. K&R
I always keep an eye out for your posts :)...
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
18. another well
deserved kick.
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Martin Eden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
19. Cruel Punishment
Shamefully, not UNUSUAL for our government these days.
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StrictlyRockers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
21. Excellent poignant post. I hope to read more like it by you, Pamela.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
22. I'm horrified by this whole business
And I can't even figure out why they do it. I've thought of so many possibilities, yet none seem to make much sense:

Do they really believe that they obtain worth while information out of this?

Is it about sadism?

Does it make Bush feel like he's a "tough guy" and a "war president"?

Is it becauase it gives him a feeling of power?

Is it all political? -- to make Americans feel like they are "protecting us"?

Did I miss anything?

I can't figure it out. And to complicate matters, I'm a believer in MIHOP.

One thing for sure, though -- They don't give a damn about human suffering.

And as far as them not being "real Nazis", I truly believe that the only reason they aren't is that they fear they would be held accountable for it.
:banghead:
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. They're testing the waters to see how well the public
accepts inhumane treatment of prisoners.

So far, pretty easily. :-(
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. But for what purpose???
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-06-06 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. To see how far they can get with political repression
To see whether the American people really pay attention to such niceties as Constitutional rights.
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-06-06 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #22
43. The only things missing
Edited on Wed Dec-06-06 08:58 AM by The Wizard
are the armbands and big boots.
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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-07-06 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #22
53. They are gangsters
The message to the general public is that anyone who crosses them will suffer a fate worse than death.

That's the kind of "protection" we get. Sadism is only the means, the end is money and power.
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
23. And this done before the Military Tribunals Act!
These people must be investigated!

-Hoot
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fearnobush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
27. Reminds me of "V", I'd bet a 100 bucks this man is innocent.
How many did the cowardly chimp fry in the Lost Star and sad red state of Texas? - Yes, I Fuck with Texas - deal with it. How many Pedilla's do we not know? How many more ? Perhaps your brother? Your Father? Your 7th grade history teacher? How many people? How many more tortures? deaths? Rapes? How many more will you put up with?
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-05-06 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
28. This is a criminal case, and I'm not discussing Mr. Padilla's legal situation.
I believe that Bush should be tried in criminal court for this case.
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txb Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-06-06 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
29. Waiter? The basest coward I have ever seen is in my SOUP!!

...oh LORD--if they were ONLY f'ing up the SOUP! :grr:

General JEER -----------> to the knuckle-dragging, extra cash spending, yet always whining & complacently burping - CROWD! -- that would ridicule the few slivers of truth now hitting the airwaves as "the liberal media". My contempt for their intellectual laziness knows no bounds. There is no cauldron of fire warm enough to keep me from crossing *if* THAT meant banishing those who think having a meal, or being kept like an insect in some 'modern' PRISON is "suuuuuum kinda treatment,yup"

ENOUGH! We've evolved past you. Go marry a cockroach.

As for the Third Reich comparison I think it is an apt analogy for a couple of reasons...

1) Science gone BAD! I see a parallel between the horribly twisted scientists and docs who espoused Eugenics for the Nazis and whatever "brain trust" came up with the idea of using "TRUTH SERUM" on Jose Padilla.

words from the article ---> "TRUTH SERUM"

according to the NYT-f'n TIMES(!)--> we are administering TRUTH SERUM to American Citizens held against their will with NO legal representation for 2 Years - with the best twisted psychological torture that decades of depravity provides, thrown in for measure!


2) Reichstag fire <--> 9-11-01

- but the second one is REALLY obvious.



_NAMASTE_ to EVERYONE who prays the Rosary in honor of those being ABUSED & TORTURED
Each moment matters....share one with a soul who needs many....

PEACE, LOVE, & REVOLUTION!

congrats on reaching the front page on yer 47th post!

new-skool ... dontcha know?



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proReality Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-06-06 01:15 AM
Response to Original message
31. Excellent post!
It should be reprinted in every newspaper across this nation.

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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-06-06 01:49 AM
Response to Original message
32. Great post. n/t
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-06-06 02:06 AM
Response to Original message
33. Flame rod...
Likening the treatment of people to the treatment of animals disgustingly and heinously diminishes the evil treatment of people performed by gw.

Less flamingly: One's views on the treatment of animals is separable from one's views on the treatment of people. (This is still massively flaming, of course, because it should be fucking obvious - except to sociopaths who think that people are of as little value as animals.)
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Pamela Troy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-06-06 03:17 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. My point is that people should AT THE LEAST
be treated as humanely as we would treat animals.

If you missed it, that's a pity.

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thickerstrings Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-06-06 02:08 AM
Response to Original message
34. One more big reason to be ashamed.
Bush and Cheney should be subjected to one day of this kind of repugnant treatment; I doubt they'd last 24 hours. This man is a scapegoat for a power-mad administration, and I hope Bush and his swill-sucking minions roast in hell for it.
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ConsAreLiars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-06-06 02:41 AM
Response to Original message
35. Thank you. When I watch "Animal Cops" I am refreshed by being
reminded that the basic standards of decency with which most sane humans would treat any animal, not just the cute ones, is one side of "who we are." And yet at the same time I am reminded that those who run the US government use torture, murder families, and dismember children without any sign of conscience at all.
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Stockholm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-06-06 03:28 AM
Response to Original message
37. Great post
K&R
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-06-06 04:53 AM
Response to Original message
38. K&R
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Paradise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-06-06 07:05 AM
Response to Original message
39. Great Post! n/t
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Drops_not_Dope Donating Member (362 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-06-06 07:14 AM
Response to Original message
40. Thank you for your outrage
and doing something about it. :hide:
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-06-06 07:36 AM
Response to Original message
41. Padilla should have that root canal redone
Edited on Wed Dec-06-06 07:48 AM by formercia
Bush gang is notorious for having implants inserted that cause massive infection down the road. I still suffer from one that I had removed 13 years ago.

In fact, they have bragged about doing it and giving the inmates in Guantanamo permanent bad breath. Bio warfare implants is how they do it.

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18524823.800&print=true

Pentagon reveals rejected chemical weapons

* 15 January 2005
* NewScientist.com news service



THE Pentagon considered developing a host of non-lethal chemical weapons that would disrupt discipline and morale among enemy troops, newly declassified documents reveal.

Most bizarre among the plans was one for the development of an "aphrodisiac" chemical weapon that would make enemy soldiers sexually irresistible to each other. Provoking widespread homosexual behaviour among troops would cause a "distasteful but completely non-lethal" blow to morale, the proposal says.

Other ideas included chemical weapons that attract swarms of enraged wasps or angry rats to troop positions, making them uninhabitable. Another was to develop a chemical that caused "severe and lasting halitosis", making it easy to identify guerrillas trying to blend in with civilians. There was also the idea of making troops' skin unbearably sensitive to sunlight.

The proposals, from the US Air Force Wright Laboratory in Dayton, Ohio, date from 1994. The lab sought Pentagon funding for research into what it called "harassing, annoying and 'bad guy'-identifying chemicals". The plans have been posted online by the Sunshine Project, an organisation that exposes research into chemical and biological weapons.

Spokesman Edward Hammond says it was not known if the proposed $7.5 million, six-year research plan was ever pursued.
From issue 2482 of New Scientist magazine, 15 January 2005, page 4
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-06-06 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #41
45. The Oral Surgeon that took it out
told me it was MRSA and that I couldn't have the tooth because it was a biohazard. Methinks someone told her not to let me have it.
No antibiotic i've been prescribed as killed it.

I have a lot to say before I die.
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liberal hypnotist Donating Member (391 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-06-06 08:13 AM
Response to Original message
42. Business as usual
Thanks for your post. Our goverment Republican and Democrats allow those that diagree or may embarass us to be locked up without rights to speakout. Noriaga, past Panama dictator and Timothy McVey both if allowed to speak freely would have shed light on our goverments dark secrets.
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tanyev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-06-06 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
44. Kick to read later.
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ponthedge Donating Member (32 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-06-06 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
46. Complacent is not the word.
We the people of these United States are no longer capable of truly fighting back.

We have an outlet. We have a piece of paper that we can put on our head and when it suits us, take it off again - and in some small way, it makes us feel better.

It will take un-plugging the wires and detaching the filters before we can truly see and feel again. Then it will take years before there is enough courage to fight.

Unfortunately, we will not unplug the wires and we will not detach the filters.

We need that little piece of paper to keep us from going completely insane.

ponthedge

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ponthedge Donating Member (32 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-06-06 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
47. On a less pessimistic note...
It was a great post and very well laid out.

No human or animal deserves to be tortured.

I am humbled by your words.

Regards...
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bobbie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-06-06 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
48. Damn fine subject--K&R
Not that this thread needs it at this point, but hey.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-06-06 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
49. excellent post, needs to be screamed from the rooftops
this idiot now has the power to declare marshal law co opting the national guard to complete the final takeover of our government by force passed in secret and finished by secret signing ceremony in the dead of night. k&n and i wish i could rec a hundred times
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civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-06-06 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
50. People I've known and loved for years could care less about this kind of treatment
Now I have to confront the fact that even family members would have made great Nazis.

What DUHbya has wrought goes so much deeper than a failed invasion.

Newsprism
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pdrichards114 Donating Member (215 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-06-06 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
51. Exellent post, very touching
Almost made me cry at work. The inhumanity and cruelty to alllife is astounding and stupefying. How did we ever get our moral/ethical compass so fucking backwards.
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Voltaire99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-07-06 03:02 AM
Response to Original message
52. Wal-Martzis, then.
Looking at Padilla, I see a human being in the hands of jackboots. Held by a lunatic government. And his captivity under no wide protest. Padilla has been disappeared. As the Times piece shows, with his earpads and orb-blocks, his porta-silences and insta-nights, the authorities have disappeared him even from himself.

And at this degrading spectacle, Americans in the millions will not blink but instead, as Pamela writes, snigger, rationalize, or more commonly ignore. Ignore, the better to shop. Because--9/11! Because--deck the McHalls!

Forget the "war on terror." If there is any war to be fought, it should be waged on our failed imagination. We have to re-learn how to be better than this, or we will never be safe.

Good post, Pamela.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-07-06 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
54. Excellent! Thanks for posting Pamela Troy
Kicked, too late to recommend

:kick:
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