Mexican inauguration - punches/chairs being thrown - Poppy due as guest

[UTUSN]

In about half an hour the count is due for a quorum. The PRD/followers of OBRADOR slept overnight in chairs on the dais where the swearing in is supposed to take place.

Now, I realize we have a contingent of OBRADOR followers here. I have been dis-invited by the spearhead of the Oaxaca daily threads to pop-in to the many threads about the strike in Oaxaca, so I am asking the AMLOistas just not to FLAME here. The European Union and other international observers found that whatever fraud was in the election, the numbers were NOT sufficient to change the outcome. The PAN represents a spectrum stretching from the working poor, up through what passes for a middle class, to the fringes of the uber-rich. It is NOT the domain of the uber-rich only.

Vicente FOX has shown exceeding restraint in the Oaxaca events.

O.K., here we go, the PAN dude, CALDERON and his wife are walking up the street enroute. Smiling. Hmmm.

[RB TexLa]

1. And everyone forgets Obrador only left PRI when it was clear

It's thuggish rule was coming to an end

[UTUSN]

2. There IS a quorum. Opposition is blowing coaches' whistles, drowning out. n/t

[malaise]

3. Looks like the swearing-in ceremony in the dark of night

and not in parliament was illegal. Mexico will soon blow up. This is scandalous.

[UTUSN]

4. Mexico is not going to blow up. The PRD are a minority of a minority.

Swearing-in in the dead of night? I'm hearing there was some kind of ceremony yesterday, but the Constitution ("a God damned piece of paper" ---Shrub) is explicit about the swearing-in to occur in front of Congress, which is due to happen.

[malaise]

8. So I heard on CNN n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. It happened this morning

[rman]

34. yeah they got all of 0.58% less votes than the majority

GOP-style landslide.

To call PRD a minority of a minority is an outright lie.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_general_election%2C_2006

[pooja]

5. There were lots and lots and lots of ballots that were missing.

Thrown in the dump... gone uncounted. Also, to the really poor Mexican, Obrador is the hero. He's Robin Hood. Since the start of Nafta, their financial situations have only gotten worse, not better. And Calderon is business as usual, where Obrador was about helping the people within the govt. It was really beneficial for the white house to have Calderon win as well because, if anyone has paid any attention to lou dobbs... there is an idea that Canada, US, and Mexico will unite into North America Union. Now that all 3 countries have presidents, PM's that are out screw the people, who's going to stop it...

Personally, I'd like this tin foil hat to lie down and die... but between lou dobbs and a few others actually reporting on this issue... I'm not so sure the tinfoil is so shiney anymore.

[UTUSN]

9. Your tinfoil topic about the "Union" is from one Jerome CORSI

*******QUOTE*******

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=14965

North American Union to Replace USA?

by Jerome R. Corsi
Posted May 19, 2006

.... President Bush intends to abrogate U.S. sovereignty to the North American Union, a new economic and political entity which the President is quietly forming, much as the European Union has formed.

The blueprint President Bush is following was laid out in a 2005 report entitled "Building a North American Community" published by the left-of-center Council on Foreign Relations (CFR). The CFR report connects the dots between the Bush administration's actual policy on illegal immigration and the drive to create the North American Union: ....


http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=15497

Bush Administration Quietly Plans NAFTA Super Highway

by Jerome R. Corsi
Posted Jun 12, 2006

.... A good reason Bush does not want to secure the border with Mexico may be that the administration is trying to create express lanes for Mexican trucks to bring containers with cheap Far East goods into the heart of the U.S., all without the involvement of any U.S. union workers on the docks or in the trucks.

Mr. Corsi is the author of several books, including "Unfit for Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry" (along with John O'Neill), "Black Gold Stranglehold: The Myth of Scarcity and the Politics of Oil" (along with Craig R. Smith), and "Atomic Iran: How the Terrorist Regime Bought the Bomb and American Politicians." He is a frequent guest on the G. Gordon Liddy radio show. He will soon co-author a new book with Jim Gilchrist on the Minuteman Project.

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=15623

North American Union Would Trump U.S. Supreme Court

by Jerome R. Corsi
Posted Jun 19, 2006

The Bush Administration is pushing to create a North American Union out of the work on-going in the Department of Commerce under the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America in the NAFTA office headed by Geri Word. A key part of the plan is to expand the NAFTA tribunals into a North American Union court system that would have supremacy over all U.S. law, even over the U.S. Supreme Court, in any matter related to the trilateral political and economic integration of the United States, Canada and Mexico. ....

http://www.wnd.com/news/archives.asp?AUTHOR_ID=246

Coming soon to U.S.: Mexican customs office

Monday, June 05, 2006 by Jerome R. Corsi -- Kansas City is planning to allow the Mexican government to open a Mexican customs office in conjunction with the Kansas City SmartPort. This will be the first foreign customs facility allowed to operate on U.S. soil.

Southern border blurs for global trade

Thursday, June 01, 2006 by Jerome R. Corsi -- The Texas segment of the NAFTA Super Corridor is moving rapidly toward approval. When built, the Trans-Texas Corridor, or TTC, will be a major super-highway with six lanes mo ...

Bush border policy linked to Carlyle deal?

Tuesday, May 23, 2006 by Jerome R. Corsi -- In January 2004, the Carlyle Group put together a new team to begin investing in Mexico. The team consisted of Luis T鬬ez, who was then an executive vice president of Desc, one of Mexico's larges ...

Immigration reform spells death for GOP

Friday, May 19, 2006 by Jerome R. Corsi -- To measure what exactly the Senate is doing in putting together a "Comprehensive Immigration Reform" bill, we have to ask what is going to change after the bill is passed: No illegal immigrant currently in the United Stat ...

Border fence will never be built

Thursday, May 18, 2006 by Jerome R. Corsi -- The Senate voted to approve the amendment submitted by Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-Ala., to build a 370-mile section of triple-layered fence along the Mexican border. Now the Bush administration is trying to push this as a victory for conservative ...


http://mediamatters.org/items/200408060010

MMFA investigates: Who is Jerome Corsi, co-author of Swift Boat Vets attack book?

....
• Corsi on Islam: "a worthless, dangerous Satanic religion"

• Corsi on Catholicism: "Boy buggering in both Islam and Catholicism is okay with the Pope as long as it isn't reported by the liberal press"

• Corsi on Muslims: "RAGHEADS are Boy-Bumpers as clearly as they are Women-Haters -- it all goes together"

• Corsi on "John F*ing Commie Kerry": "After he married TerRAHsa, didn't John Kerry begin practicing Judiasm? He also has paternal grandparents that were Jewish. What religion is John Kerry?"

• Corsi on Senator "FAT HOG" Clinton: "Anybody ask why HELLary couldn't keep BJ Bill satisfied? Not lesbo or anything, is she?" ....

********UNQUOTE*******

[spillthebeans]

17. what is your point?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8flODdDX8UQ

[UTUSN]

18. What's your point? n/t

[spillthebeans]

19. that it comes from one source?

it'S from a gov site spp.gov

[UTUSN]

22. No, my own other source is my own observation

of DOBBS, O'LOOFAH, HANNITY, MALKIN, Tweety, and whomever else. By the bye, it's always a predictable ideological response to attack WHATEVER source is cited. This happens over and over.
I have Googled before and picked the #1 cited link and yet the link is NEVER good enough: It's either a (whatever city) NEWSPAPER, or it's the ASSOCIATED PRESS!!!!1 or WHOMEVER.

As for the Southern Poverty Law Center, I will stand by them for all of their work against hate groups and FOR their record of defending human rights HERE than with all of the violence-WISHERS---you know the ones, the ones who have been WISHING for violence in Mexico, while these wishers are OVER HERE in the safety and comfort of their college dorms.

[countryjake]

52. "comfort of their college dorms"...is that a slur?

I thought you asked for no flaming?

Contrary to what you've stated, there are hundreds of displaced Oaxacans fretting and wishing for victory in their homeland, with no violence whatsoever, because they know they have the numbers, they know who it is that has driven them from their land, and they are well aware of exactly who it is that is in the right in this struggle.

Ending the oppression is inevitable because they cannot arrest and murder every compañeros...for every one struck down, another rises to lift the banners and voices, marching on in the struggle for true democracy, simple rights, and justice.

Condemning that people's movement on this board makes it very obvious where you, yourself, are sitting.

[RB TexLa]

11. And why would you oppose a North American Union? n/t

[pooja]

24. Because you lose your protection under the constitution. Also,

if you tie Canada dollar, mexican peso, and American dollar...our monetary value is going to go down, Canada's would prob. be the same, but the Mexican people would suffer cruelly. I don't mind if the world sings in peace and harmony... I just want the world to be singing before it happens.

[UTUSN]

14. DOBBS (like O'LOOFAH & HANNITY) is a populist

Here's what the Southern Poverty Law Center says about him:

*******QUOTE*******
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=589

Broken Record
Lou Dobbs' daily 'Broken Borders' CNN segment has focused on immigration for years.

But there's one issue Dobbs just won't take on.

By Heidi Beirich and Mark Potok

.... For more than two years now, Dobbs has served up a populist approach to immigration on nightly segments of his newscast entitled "Broken Borders." He has relentlessly covered the issue, although hardly from a traditional news perspective -- Dobbs favors clamping down on illegal immigration, and his "reporting" never fails to make that clear. He has covered the same issues, and the same anti-immigration leaders, time after time after time. In recent months, Dobbs has run countless upbeat reports on the "citizen border patrols" that have sprung up around the country since last April's Minuteman Project, a paramilitary effort to seal the Arizona border.

But there's one thing Lou Dobbs won't do. No matter what others report about the movement, Dobbs has failed to present mounting and persistent evidence of anti-Hispanic racism in anti-immigration groups and citizen border patrols. ....

********UNQUOTE*******

[pooja]

27. Excuse me, why wouldn't illegal immigrants coming into a sovereign

nation piss anyone off... When you are invaded, you go to war. I'm not trying to flame here... I'm just making a point that invasion = defense. The tensions are high... Jobs are being shipped over seas and now taken up by people who ought not to have a job in the USA (I do mean the illegal ones and not the one's on work visas, that's different). If the damn govt enforced the laws that we have written on the books already, we wouldn't have this debate.


Racism would be obsolete. It starts with fair trade. Demand Fair Trade.

[EFerrari]

37. So the cause of racism is law breaking?

Um, no.

[roody]

41. Because they will fix my yard, wash my dishes,

care for my children, and pick my grapes cheaply???

[UTUSN]

6. Da SUVs with the pretzeldental cargo are arriving. n/t

[malaise]

7. Any link to live coverage? n/t

[RB TexLa]

10. It's on Cada Dia

[UTUSN]

12. CALDERON is at the podium, FOX is next to him with the sash, national anthem

Whistles are blowing, but cheers are chanting, CALDERON is clearly heard. No whistles while the national anthem is being sung.

[UTUSN]

13. It is done ---good, bad, or indifferent. n/t

[Rex]

36. Nothing lasts forever.

Thank the Gods. :rofl:

[The Stranger]

15. Wow, sounds like a democracy.

And what a beautiful sound.

[UTUSN]

16. You got it. n/t

[Bridget Burke]

20. Calderon was sworn in last night--with questionable legality

Dec. 1, 2006, 9:56AM
Calderon sworn in after lawmaker brawl in Mexico

By IOAN GRILLO
Associated Press

MEXICO CITY — Leftist lawmakers threw punches and chairs at their conservative colleagues and some tried to block the doors of the congressional chamber today just an hour before incoming President Felipe Calderon took the oath of office there.....

Anticipating today's standoff, the conservative Calderon took control of the presidential residence in an unusual midnight ceremony with outgoing President Vicente Fox, swearing in part of his Cabinet. In that private ceremony, broadcast live from Los Pinos, Fox handed the presidential sash to a military cadet as his term ended at midnight.

That left experts on Mexico's constitution puzzled over whether Mexico had a president or not Friday morning. Presidents must be sworn in "before congress" but the document does not elaborate on the requirement.....

Amid the chaos, dignitaries began arriving, including Nicaraguan President Enrique Bolanos, Colombian President Alvaro Uribe and Spanish Prince Felipe Asturias, walking down an entrance lined by soldiers carrying bayonets and dressed in ceremonial attire. There was no sign of former President George H. W. Bush and California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, both of whom were scheduled to attend.

http://chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4371923.html

Of the "spectrum" of Mexicans PAN represents, a few do better than most.

Nov. 30, 2006, 11:01PM
Mexico's well-heeled get richer; Report says inequities stunting nation's progress

By MARLA DICKERSON
Los Angeles Times

MEXICO CITY - Mexico's rich and powerful got even more rich and powerful during the six-year term of outgoing President Vicente Fox.

That's the conclusion of a World Bank study released this week that said Mexico's business elite and powerful public-sector unions were a major drag on the nation's economy.

The net worth of Mexico's billionaires soared, from just over 4 percent of gross domestic product in 2000 to about 6 percent in 2006, according to the study. Strong earnings at big corporations have driven the stock market to repeated highs.

But those benefits haven't been widely shared. The concentration of economic power in few hands has saddled Mexican consumers with high prices, exacerbated income inequality and retarded economic growth.

http://chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/4370807.html

Speaking of Oaxaca?

Dec. 1, 2006, 8:40AM
Facing turmoil, Calderon opts for midnight swearing-in;
Analysts argue about significance of unusual move

By MARION LLOYD
Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle

MEXICO CITY — With opponents threatening to block today's inauguration before Congress, Mexico's incoming president took power in an unusual midnight ceremony behind the closed doors of the presidential palace.....

... five months after a teachers strike turned violent in Oaxaca, Mexico's most famous colonial city has become a burned-out battleground in which at least 17 people have died. There are also fears of a resurgence of leftist guerrillas following three bomb blasts in the capital in early November.

Despite initially calling for reconciliation, Calderon seems to be opting for a strong hand. On Tuesday, he named Francisco Ramirez Acuña, a controversial former Jalisco governor, to the powerful post of interior secretary, in charge of domestic affairs and intelligence.

Rights activists accuse Ramirez Acuña of sanctioning police brutality against leftist protesters during a 2004 summit in Guadalajara of European and Latin American leaders.

http://chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4371275.html

Sadly, I've never visited Oaxaca, although I'd heard much about that beautiful city.

By the way, it's not "OBRADOR", it's "Lopez Obrador."

[UTUSN]

21. What I saw this A.M. was IN PUBLIC and according to the MX constitution

Please leave your dripping contempt aside.

There was a QUORUM OF CONGRESS, the presence IN FRONT OF CONGRESS in session of both CALDERON *and* FOX----and the OATH OF OFFICE, the sashing of the sash, the singing of the national anthem, and the adjournment of the session of congress. This was all in public. Whatever ceremony was held yesterday, the requirements of the Mexican constitution were observed this morning.

[Bridget Burke]

Yes, another "peaceful transfer of power"--just like ours in 2001.

With burned out buildings in Oaxaca & the Mexican super-rich getting richer (while the rest of Mexico suffers)--I'll drip my contempt wherever I wish.

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. On a minor detail you were wrong

and it is a critical detail... He was swornm per requirements in article 82 of the Mexican Constitution

As to Oaxaca, this shit has literally been going on, not for a couople of years, but over 500 and it is a continuation of events in the 19th century, colledgively known as the Caste War of the Yucatan, but I am sure you knew that.

In fact, if you ask a Mexican from Moneterry about it, he'll know as much or as little as you do.

I expect it to get far worst, becuase local eltes have been trying to keep control of the local indigenous population for the last 500 years or so

[Bridget Burke]

28. Thanks for the information.

Silly me, I didn't realize that Oaxaca was in the Yucatan.

Since these troubles have been going on for so long, Fox & Calderon are quite innocent. It's beyond their control! Besides, the elite are their folks.

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. If you don't know the history ain't my fault

the caste wars spanned Oaxaca, Yucatan and Campeche

[Bridget Burke]

30. So--what is Calderon going to do about the problem?

That glurge he spouted in his address didn't sound encouraging.

And WHY the midnight skulking?

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. Midnight skulking

I'm trying to remember if it has been done before. Technically the term of EVERY President ends at Midnight of the prescribed term, per article 82


So I think that has been done before

As to what Calderon will do... given that many of the whose who on the elites go back three hundred years, good question.

One of the things that the people in the Mexican South want is autonomy, I don't know if they could even make it as an automomous region.

Point is, this has been going on for a while, did not start under Fox... and you can in osme ways blame Hernan Cortes... yes it goes that far back

[alittlelark]

33. Uh, Yeah.....

:eyes: :puke:

[shance]

23. Thank you for this information Bridget. - "Mexican well heeled get richer"

Indeed.

It would appear with George HW Bush attending, others will be benefitting from this inauguration as well....

Mexico's well-heeled get richer; Report says inequities stunting nation's progress

By MARLA DICKERSON
Los Angeles Times

MEXICO CITY - Mexico's rich and powerful got even more rich and powerful during the six-year term of outgoing President Vicente Fox.

That's the conclusion of a World Bank study released this week that said Mexico's business elite and powerful public-sector unions were a major drag on the nation's economy.

The net worth of Mexico's billionaires soared, from just over 4 percent of gross domestic product in 2000 to about 6 percent in 2006, according to the study. Strong earnings at big corporations have driven the stock market to repeated highs.

But those benefits haven't been widely shared. The concentration of economic power in few hands has saddled Mexican consumers with high prices, exacerbated income inequality and retarded economic growth.

http://chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/4370807.html

Speaking of Oaxaca?

Dec. 1, 2006, 8:40AM
Facing turmoil, Calderon opts for midnight swearing-in;
Analysts argue about significance of unusual move

By MARION LLOYD
Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle

MEXICO CITY — With opponents threatening to block today's inauguration before Congress, Mexico's incoming president took power in an unusual midnight ceremony behind the closed doors of the presidential palace.....

... five months after a teachers strike turned violent in Oaxaca, Mexico's most famous colonial city has become a burned-out battleground in which at least 17 people have died. There are also fears of a resurgence of leftist guerrillas following three bomb blasts in the capital in early November.

Despite initially calling for reconciliation, Calderon seems to be opting for a strong hand. On Tuesday, he named Francisco Ramirez Acuña, a controversial former Jalisco governor, to the powerful post of interior secretary, in charge of domestic affairs and intelligence.

Rights activists accuse Ramirez Acuña of sanctioning police brutality against leftist protesters during a 2004 summit in Guadalajara of European and Latin American leaders.

http://chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4371275.html

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. Once again read this

Calderon did not assume the duties of the Presidency until he was sworn in this morning

The ceremony was highly unusual, but Calderon was swon this moning.

Thanks

PS what should make you nervous was that power was trasfered to the armed forces for a few huors

Hell's bells here is what he read to the nation last night... (with translation, and Ed note, this is a public adress, therefore no copyright in it)

Mexicanas y mexicanos:

Muy buenas noches.

Al recibir del presidente Vicente Fox la oficina presidencial inicia el proceso de toma de posesión de la Presidencia de la República.

Since I have recevied the Presidency from President Fox the process of the transfer of power of the Presidency of the Republic begins

Más tarde me presentaré ante el Congreso de la Unión para rendir la protesta constitucional, tal como lo establece el artículo 87 de nuestra Carta Magna.

Later I will be before the Congress of the Union to take the oath of office, as established in article 87 of our Magna Carta

Apelo al respeto a la investidura del Congreso, a la necesidad de fortalecer la vida institucional de México y al patriotismo de los legisladores para que todo se haga con pleno respeto a la Constitución.

I am asking that the Congress's investment is respected, to the necesity of strengheting the Institutional Life of Mexico and the patriotism of the law makers, and that all is done with full respect to the Constitution

No ignoro la complejidad del momento político que vivimos ni nuestras diferencias, pero estoy convencido de que hoy debemos poner punto final a nuestros desencuentros y a partir de ahí, iniciar una nueva etapa que tenga como único objetivo anteponer el interés nacional por encima de nuestras diferencias.

I am not going to ingore the compex plolitical moment that we live and our differences, but I beleive that today we have to end them and startin today, we need to start a new stage that will have as its only obuective to put national interst ahead of our personal differences.

Deseo que la ceremonia de toma de protesta esté apegada a la ley y al respeto de todos y cada uno de los mexicanos que con su voto han dado lugar a esta nueva etapa que hoy inicia.

I hope that the oath of office ceremony follows the law and respect for all and every Mexicoan that has given way to this ceremony by their vote


Estoy asumiendo la Presidencia de la República y con ésta el mandato legítimo de servirte por los próximos seis años y ser Jefe de Estado y Jefe de Gobierno.

I am ssuming the Presidency of the Republic and with the legitinate landade to serve for the next six years as the head of state and head of government

Sé de la complejidad de las circunstancias en que estoy recibiendo el Gobierno de México, por eso desde hace unos minutos he ordenado a mi Gabinete recibir del gobierno saliente las secretarías, cuyo funcionamiento continuo es indispensable, las tareas más urgentes para que la acción de Gobierno no se detenga.

I understand the complexity of the cirumstances that I am receiving the Governemt of Mexico, that is why I ordered in the last few miutes that my government recieve the command of the cabinet possitions essential to the continuing fuctionaing of the government so that work cannot stop. (Essentially these are Defense, Nvay and other security aparaturs which speaks volumes to the depth of the crisis)

Igualmente, del Presidente Vicente Fox recibí la Bandera Nacional como símbolo de responsabilidad que se transmite para seguir trabajando por todos y cada uno de ustedes.

Just the same, I received from President Fox the national standard, that is a simbol of responsosibity that is transmited to continue to work for all of you.

Como mexicano quiero expresar mi más sincero agradecimiento a Vicente Fox, quien acaba de cumplir su mandato con lealtad, honestidad y trabajo para el bien de México.

As a Mexcian I want to express my sincere thanks to Vicente Fox, who has finished his term with loyalty, honesty and work for the well being of all Mexicans

Acepto el compromiso de ser el Presidente de todos los mexicanos sin distingo, sin importar su preferencia política, la religión que profesen, su origen étnico, su condición de género, su nivel de ingreso, su posición social o el lugar donde vivan en nuestro querido país.

I aceept the the duty to be the President of all Mexican, without distingition, It does not matter their political view, their faith, their national orgiing, their income, social poisiton or where they live in the country

Hoy concluye un largo camino e inicia otro.

One large road is finsihed and we have started a new one

Invito a todos los mexicanos a construir un nuevo capítulo de la historia nacional.

I invite all Mexicans to build a new chapter in the history of the country.

Yo creo en un México ganador, fuerte y seguro de sí mismo, orgulloso de sus riquezas naturales y de su historia, de su cultura, de su identidad y, sobre todo, fortalecido con el carácter invencible de su gente.

I beleive in a Mexico that is a winner, strong and self assured, proud of its natural wealth and its history, is culture, its identiy, and above all else, srenth in the invincinble character of its people

México que es capaz de superar las adversidades y lograr para todos, un futuro diferente y mejor.

Mexico is Capable of overcoming all problems for all, and create a better future for all

Desde mi Gobierno seré el primero en demostrar con acciones que ese México distinto, es posible.

From my governent I will be the first one to prove by actions that there is a better Mexico Possible

A eso los invito, a construir un México distinto y mejor, un México ganador.

I invite you to join me in creating a succesful and different Mexico, a Winner

Les agradezco mucho su atención y hasta pronto.

I thank you for your attention and we shall see each other soon



(Don't blame the messenger here, I just trnaslated here)

[EFerrari]

35. Have you any clue about what happened in that election or what is

happening in Oaxaca. Especially Oaxaca -- unless you call shooting peaceful protesters, kidnapping and torture "restraint"?

And, who is the user that you are calling a "spearhead"? This is a typo, right, and not a slur?

[Rex]

38. For some people, sealing the deal means it is over and we should

just shut up about it and get on with our daily lives. It is as simple for some, as watching a football game. Truth? Whatever, I'll get it during the commercial. :rofl:

[UTUSN]

40. "some people" - Is that a slur? No, the moment for UNshutting-up

occurred back in July and August, when all kinds of international observers witnessed the election, when the process set up by the Mexican people (not our U.S. Supreme Court) reviewed the results, and when the results were recognized by other countries.

NIXON had a good case for fighting the results of 1960 and didn't. There is nothing wrong with REMEMBERING when you've been wronged, if it happened, and using it as a lesson for fighting on OTHER fronts, instead of endlessly SPINNING YOUR WHEELS.

By the bye, here are blatant misstatements in that other thread's o.p.:




1. “pretender” - FALSE.

2. “can’t be sworn in in public” - FALSE.

3. “THE PEOPLE” - the PRD does not speak for the Mexican PEOPLE.

4. “will not let it happen” - FALSE.

5. “They won’t allow him to appear in public” - FALSE.

6. “was sworn in IN SECRET” - FALSE.

7. “Bush was supposed to attend” - I will verify

8. “no one knows if there sill be an event” - FALSE.

[EFerrari]

43. "But, did you say 'I do'?"

"Uh, no."
"Then you're not married."

lol

:hi:

[Rex]

56. Doesn't matter if you say I do or not with some people.

:rofl: Hi back at ya.

[UTUSN]

39. Here's a link to your own thread, poster from Mexico, reality based

Who's the "spearhead"? You know, the one who has been posting daily threads drumbeating for violence.

*******QUOTE*******

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2840483

josewelder (2 posts) Sat Dec-02-06 11:41 AM
Response to Original message


88. Calderon was Sworn in Legally and in Public


I live in Mexico City. I watched my wife deposit her paper ballot into a sealed box. I saw that there were representatives form all parties at the voting station. I spoke with two individuals sent from Canada to monitor the vote. Both explained how in their opinion this was one of the most fraud free elections(I am only referring to the actual voting process) they have seen and how difficult it would have been to manipulate the results.

Yesterday my family and the majority of the people I know(Rich, poor, other)stayed at home for fear that there would be a problem. Schools were not in session, banks and business were closed for the day. It is very easy for you sitting far away to say how wonderful a big problem would have been for the people of Mexico. I have even heard some post on other threads that a revolution would be just great. Neither really seems all that appealing when you are living in the place where the events threaten to occur. I do not think a bloody revolution is the way to go.

I believe that Calderon won. I hope that the PRD coming so close will make all other parties take note that they cannot ignore the lower economic class anymore, that Mexico is now a semi-functional democracy(much like the USA), and that poor people vote and need to be taken care of and taken into account in the party politic, or that party will lose. Hopefully this process will continue and Mexico will continue to evolve socially and economically to become a better place for all Mexicans to live together in peace and prosperity.


BE GOOD
---------my reply: ---------

Thank you for your first hand knowledge, as opposed to the posts that have been WISHING FOR VIOLENCE (far far away from where THEY live).

Yes, there is a small, vocal contingent here of theoretical idealists who see through a filter. Funny, also, how, idealists that they supposedly are, they will ATTACK anybody who attempts to present a different point of view.

The U.S. & the Mexican political system and party alignments are NOT the same. The PAN is NOT the Rethug party. FOX/CALDERON is NOT Shrub. FOX refused to join Shrub's aggression in violating the sovereignty of a country. FOX exhibited restraint in dealing with the civil disobedience in Oaxaca. This Mexican outcome is NOT our 2000.

A post in another thread responded to the description of the relatively placid whistle-blowing, opposition (that ceased while EVERYBODY sang the national anthem): "Sounds like democracy to me." That's it.

Repeating, observers from the European Union and other international entities found that whatever fraud there was was not sufficient to change the result. And to deflate, yet again, another of the canards being repeated endlessly here: The PRD protesters are a MINORITY OF A MINORITY. They do NOT represent THE PEOPLE OF MEXICO. In fact, the PRD has been losing supporters the more AMLO became more intransigent.
********UNQUOTE*******

[EFerrari]

42. You take the work of a anon poster to an interboard over the

world indy media? Uh - huh. That's some reality you have going there.

lol

And while "spearheading" is idiomatic, "spearhead" is not.

[UTUSN]

44. I'd take this anon poster's word before that Massachusetts physics prof

who is the basis for the violence mongering threads. And, as I have said in posts of weeks and months past: I actually KNOW real, live Mexicans in Mexico. And as I said to the spearheading one months ago, if and when the blood of the poorest of the poor is shed there will be buckets of CROCODILE TEARS being shed among the participants in the Oaxaca threads here. MY tears will be real.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. I have family in Mexico and I speak

with them on a regular basis, and gosh darn it, I was there a week after the election and saw people turn agasint AMLO becuase of his manouvers... not that yuo will see that here

[UTUSN]

48. Thank you. But there's no reasoning with ideologues. n/t

[EFerrari]

51. Please resort to reason as soon as your small fund of insults

is exhausted. :)

[EFerrari]

50. You mean there is disagreement a democratic process?!

:rofl:

[UTUSN]

53. Why, yes, (I'm guessing you left out a word or two), sort of like

how the protesters in Mexico HAD their say, were NOT surpressed, and how EVERYBODY was united in singing the national anthem, then everybody went home. No explosion of Mexico.

As the good poster said, "Sounds like democracy to me."

[EFerrari]

55. Tell it to Human Rights Watch.

[josewelder]

Don't believe everything you read

Hi I am "anon poster". Almost makes me feel like a second class citizen. Perhaps when I post as many incorrect and violence encouraging post as yourself I can rise to a new glorious level above "anon poster", whatever that means. Please make sure to let me know when I have arrived to this new level of being.

Re-read the article upon which your earlier tirade in another thread was posted. It is factually incorrect in many respects. You have made the biggest mistake of all; "Don't believe everything you read". The left, the rignt, the centerist, and the independent press all lie or make mistakes on occassion.

[UTUSN]

47. You meant to reply to Post #42,correct? Not to ME (the original poster).

I'm on YOUR side.

[josewelder]

45. Don't believe everything you read

Hi I am "anon poster". Almost makes me feel like a second class citizen. Perhaps when I post as many incorrect and violence encouraging post as yourself I can rise to a new glorious level above "anon poster", whatever that means. Please make sure to let me know when I have arrived to this new level of being.

Re-read the article upon which your earlier tirade in another thread was posted. It is factually incorrect in many respects. You have made the biggest mistake of all; "Don't believe everything you read". The left, the rignt, the centerist, and the independent press all lie or make mistakes on occassion.

[EFerrari]

49. It is one of the drawbacks of internet discussion boards

that posting only requires typing skills where reading actually requires critical thinking skills.

I posted a summary of a publicly available news report, one that even anon poster should be able to access. And I posted my response to it. Nowhere did I encourage violence and before I left I asked people to please post updates. How hard is that to wrap you mind around?

Do you have family in Oaxaca? I do.

[josewelder]

54. Critical Thinking Skills

Perhaps if you used your critical speaking skills you would realize what you posted was wrong. You posted your response to a incorrect public news report. WHy do you not say "I posted my opinion on something that was incorrect">

Why did you place alittle smiling devil face after the sentence where you mentioned violence in San Lazaro(the house/senate builcing)? Did you like that ther was violence there? Did it get you off?

DO I have family in Oaxaca. I do not. However I really doubt that you do.

Why don't you try the truth? Why don't you hope for peace and resolution instead of conflict?

I really do not understand you.