Let's speculate on the long term consequences to US

[Target_For_Exterm]

national security because of Bush's Iraq adventures.

I've been thinking a lot about this lately. For one, it seems quite clear that our overextension in Iraq is causing problems for us in Afghanistan. Losing in both Afghanistan and Iraq sends the message to terrorists that we can't win against them, encouraging them in further attacks against us. We've reduced our global standing, which reduces the likelihood that we can get the support we need from foreign nations in any legitimate future conflict. There's the damage to our military from the Iraq bloodbath to consider, and what it means to our future national security. Our overextension in Iraq emboldens countries like North Korea, who might feel free to spread their nuclear developments to all our enemies in response to our opposition because they know we can't respond in any meaningful way.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that Bush's Iraq misadventure has seriously, seriously damaged our national security.

What are your thoughts on this?

[eleny]

1. Yup

That's the general DU take on it. Welcome.

[NMDemDist2]

2. may i point to my dear friend Husb2Sparkly's insight from last week?

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Husb2Sparkly/36

you guys are both right

[uppityperson]

3. don't forget all those families and relatives and friends

who now hate the USA policies and may confuse hatred of those policies with hatred of the people.

[seabeyond]

4. we will do what we should have done from the beginning. police action

tighten up borders and ports and work with the war on finding the bad guys. get a dem in the whitehouse and better our foriegn policy interactions with other nations. we will heal the same as we did in vietnam and not go into war for a couple decaes because we are afraid we will lose. i agree with you accessment. bush has damaged this country and our security beyond what any could imagine was possible

[BlackVelvetElvis]

5. You've touched on the consequences of our actions

These consequences are certain. The question is how to reverse the damage. This is my opinion:
We absolutely need our friends and allies (if any are really left). We have to rebuild trust and restore, as Joseph Nye puts it, America's soft power.
Soft power is the intangible allure of America and her ideals: freedom, democracy and hope to attain the American dream. Our first amendment rights are vital to this dream. This helped us to win the Cold War.
Repairing the damage may take a generation to fix. A few ideas, I'm sure there are many others:

We need to work inside out, fix ourselves and work with our allies first but only after our troops are out of harm's way. They need assurances that we aren't acting in a Machiaevellian manner - telling "noble lies" to gain power. This administration grew on these lies. It needs to stop.
We need a global intellegence arm that needs to work together to root out immediate threats and not persecute peaceful, law-abiding citizens (we've been down that road before). Too much information is not getting to the right people.
A small point: We need to stop firing interpreters because they happen to be homosexual because these people are needed in this fight. This action is stupid.
We need to free ourselves from the bondage of oil as a source of energy. This doesn't mean upturn every rock to find more oil on our own land. Create a "Manhatten Project" to change the way we live. Our allies would probably work on this with us.

[Target_For_Exterm]

6. I agree with you. You have a lot of good ideas.

I think it will be really important that we act honorably in the future to reverse the damage done by the actions of this Administration. We need to rebuild trust in the ideal that US actions are motivated by good and not evil and/or ulterior motives.

I think we do need to work toward ending the terrible partisanship in our government because I think it hurts us in the long run. Politics has become more important that our country itself. Thats fundamentally wrong. What is the purpose of an elected official if not to work toward the betterment of our country? Instead, it's become working toward continuing power, the country be damned.

We need to work harder at reducing our dependence on oil. I think this could solve a number of political and environmental problems. It would also reduce our interference in middle east politics.

We need to relearn to value human life. Somewhere along the way human life has become an expendable commodity. This is a principle from which all other actions flow. When you don't value human life, your policies fail to protect and preserve it. Katrina is a good example of this. Iraq is another.

[Lisa]

7. when Karen Hughes and Co. claimed that the real problem

... was basically advertising -- and that everything would be solved if other countries could learn what nice people Americans were, and how they were helping the rest of the world ... I remember thinking that as usual they'd gotten it turned around.

First, one has to have really great stuff to tell people about! And not have a whole bunch of nasty secrets to sweep under the rug, because that would completely negate the good things. A big shiny public relations machine can only run on BS for so long. When other nations look at the US and see flawed elections, corporations run amok, and increasing numbers of poor desperate Americans, the thought crosses our minds that Bush's habit of going around saying "Do as we say, little countries -- not as we do" is not a good idea. Lots of countries looked up to the US, a half-century ago (and still do) -- even countries that are now viewed with suspicion, like Cuba and Iran. It was the thought of honesty and good government, and the willingness to take the side of the downtrodden, that inspired people to want to do things "like America". (The Iranians trusted the Americans more than they did the British and their Empire.) I think it says something that many people still find the US attractive, even in societies where most of the population are under the age of 25, and have no direct memory of the US liberating Europe and initiating the Marshall Plan, and other attempts to make life better for others. I still think that this worldwide respect and admiration can be salvaged. Indeed, the American people themselves took the first step, with the elections earlier this month.

[BlackVelvetElvis]

8. You have beautifully articulated what America means!

This can go on so much deeper too.
This idea is so much bigger than anything we can speak about right now. Call me an idealist, but its still a beautiful thing to believe in.
I hope we can pull ourselves up out of this mess and mean something again.

[Target_For_Exterm]

9. I agree. I think the foundation of our country is sound and

profoundly right. I believe in the idea of American democracy, and I believe in the rights and ideals enshrined in the Constitution. I think it's because I have such profound respect for our form of government that I'm so grossly offended by what Bush and his pals are doing.

Every time they take a chip off the Constitution, I want to scream. What good motives could they have for assaulting what has proven to be a form of government that really, really works for the public at large?

What they're doing seems to be so anti-American, and it scrambles my brain trying to figure out how someone who supposedly respects what our country stands for could do the things they do. That's why I sometimes believe that they DON'T have the best interests of our country in mind when they act. What kind of twisted patriotism could motivate them? None that I could think of. That only leaves self interest and a "could care less" attitude toward our country.

[Lisa]

10. thank you ...

I am not from the US, but the first Americans I ever met were college friends of my mom's. "Uncle Ray" was a conscientious objector during WWII ... the moment the war ended, he and "Aunt Vena" went on a boat to Europe with most of the family's cattle herd, and spent months over there helping re-organize the German agricultural system and GIVING AWAY those cows to people who needed them. When they got back to Pennsylvania, they didn't even have their suitcases, because they'd given away everything but the clothes they were standing up in. I didn't realize until I was much older that so many acts of generosity, by the US government and countless citizens, had helped create peace and security for people around the world. (Actually I'm almost relieved that those two good people passed away before the year 2000 ... it would have wounded them deeply to see Bush's administration advocating torture, and invading another country on an obvious pretext.)

If people cleaned up a mess and changed the world before ... we can do it again.