New York on edge as police kill unarmed man in hail of 50 bullets on his wedding day

[sweetheart]

· Authorities fear backlash over stag night death
· Panicky officers peppered homes and train station

Julian Borger in Washington
Monday November 27, 2006
The Guardian

Club Kalua in the Jamaica district of Queens
The club where the shooting happened. Photograph: Adam Rountree/AP


The New York authorities were scrambling to contain an angry backlash yesterday after police shot a group of three unarmed black men, killing one of them on his wedding day.

The shooting took place after a stag party at a strip club in Queens, a few hours before Sean Bell, 23, was due to marry the mother of his two small daughters. He was struck in the neck and arm and was dead on arrival at hospital.

One of his friends, Joseph Guzman, was in a critical condition after being hit 11 times, and another, Trent Benefield, was in a stable condition with wounds to his leg and buttocks.

Outrage at the shooting was compounded when it emerged that Mr Guzman and Mr Benefield had been shackled to their beds. New Yorkers have also been startled at the apparent wildness of the fusillade. The police claim to have overheard one of three men mention a gun, but no weapon was found.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,1957881,00.html

[cornermouse]

1. Did you see the holes in the window and other non-target

places? Scary.

[lostnotforgotten]

2. Between Tasers , This Incident, & The Granny Killing , The Thin

Blue line has become a lot, lot thinner.

Is it any wonder that the rest of the world sees us as cowboys?

[seabeyond]

16. just a few bad ones, really nothing to see here. n/t

[Bucky]

3. In a British newspaper. I hate it when we don't air our own rubbish

In matters like this the cops usually end up paying a hefty fine in addition to having to take up to a whole month's unpaid leave and probably being required to seek counseling. Unless, of course, they were eating Twinkies.

[JoFerret]

7. You think this is being kept secret

from New Yorkers?

[karynnj]

18. It was on the front of EVERY newpaper in NYC yesterday

(NYT, NY Post, NYDN)

Also, NYC on edge is very much overkill. Baghdad is on edge, NYC not so much. (I was in NYC yesterday and have a daughter living there - people are waiting for the full story to come out. Clearly the cops reacted in a very strange manner - even overreaction is far too weak to describe this. The story simply makes no sense.

[americanstranger]

23. Fully agree with that assessment.

Yeah, the entire city is 'on edge!' It's a 'pressure cooker' that's 'bound to blow at any moment!!!'

Nah. More like Julian Borger writes interesting headlines for his Guardian articles.

This is not meant to minimize police misconduct - they screwed up and they're clearly trying to cover each other's asses here. But the city is hardly 'on edge.'

- as

[riderinthestorm]

25. My first thought was this was a National Guardsman who just went nuts

A substantial number of Guard are police officers and firefighters and virtually all of them have done at least one rotation into Iraq. PTSD was what came to mind when I first heard about this incident cause otherwise it really just doesn't make sense like you said.

It's going to be interesting to see what the details are when they are finally released but my initial bet is that one of the cops has been to Iraq.

[sweetheart]

31. or he's been to new york

Existing while black is the crime of the century, and the drugs war has given
police officers the apparent right to use summary violence.

It is not new york's first, nor last police race murder, just another in a
long long long long line of abuses to be swept under the carpet.

American street violence is just like iraq, death squads hunt around and
kill dark skins just like they hunt and murder people whereever else
their bloody masters put the dog.

[riderinthestorm]

32. But something like 50 shots??!! That's just wild shooting

that looks a lot like PTSD to me.

I'm not in any way shape or form diminishing the racist problems that exist but that many shots is way beyond just trying to drop a perp. It's a fucking switch that's been blown in someone's head with no way to shut it off.

[karynnj]

39. That may be likely - because 50 shots - with NO shots back

seems utterly strange.

I do know of the famous racist police cases in NYC - having been in NYC often - they are NOT the norm. That is why they get the attention they do.

[sweetheart]

43. How many lynchings does it take

...to make a population afraid? In living in manhattan, i have had
encounters as well with zealous police whom i was deeply concerned had
too much a sense of their importance, and that as a law abiding citizen,
it is they, like the govenrment who should fear me, not i them.

... but experience in new york has shown me that i am to fear them,
so i left new york... and someone else gets shot, another law abiding
citizen, and it gets nodded off, collateral damage of the finest at
work, acceptable summary killings in the street by power hungry criminals.

Every police/civilian encounter in queens will be coloured by this murder
for years to come, and lynchings do not need to be the norm to set the
fear out there, everyone knows that the situation would never happen
in reverse, a black cop will never be getting away with shooting 3
unarmed white people in manhattan while not in uniform.

[karynnj]

44. Point taken - I am white

though I have black friends who don't seem troubled by going into NYC.

[Book Lover]

48. Amadou Diallo had 41 shots pumped into him

None of those cops had been in Iraq. And I feel it a safe bet that none of the ones involved in this Queens shooting had been either. This is the way it is played in NYC - please take it from a native who grew up in Irish Catholic (and therefore, filled with cop families) Queens.

[City Lights]

14. Here's a link to the story from the NYTimes:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/27/nyregion/27fire.html?_r=1&ref=nyregion&oref=slogin

[Bluzmann57]

4. Another sad part of all this

is that I have no doubt that the fiancee will file, and win, a hefty lawsuit against the NYPD which the taxpayers of New York City will end up paying. All for apparent wrecklessness of a few police officers. And it makes all cops look bad when that isn't the case at all.

[Hav]

5. .

edit: ok, I didn't read carefully enough.

Still, she has a reason to sue. After all, she is left alone with 2 kids.

[MadHound]

6. Hickey, Diallo, Louima, Dorismond, Busch, Nixon, Reid, Lagutta, Rodreguiz, Newsome,

On and on the list goes friend. When do we stop calling it the "work of a few bad officers" and tell it like it is, a pervasive police attitude that regards life as cheap, an arrogance of being guards at an outdoor asylum, a simmering racism, and that they are above it all. I can buy the "few bad officers" for only so long. But when you have example after example of deadly abuses, it isn't the work of a "few bad cops", it is a systemic, institutional attitude problem. And frankly, the only cure is to tear the entire institution down and start all over.

[saigon68]

10. Its the "pesky uppitty blacks" again

</Sarecasm>

[A Simple Game]

12. I have always felt that most people, not all, but most people

that want to be cops, should not be allowed to be cops.

[MadHound]

21. It didn't used to be that way

Back in the day, police officers thought of themselves as public servants, to protect and serve. Now their attitude has drastically changed, now they consider themselves as guards at an outdoor asylum, with a mandate to maintain law and order, no matter the cost. This fundemental shift in attitude started happening during the sixties, and really accelerated during the eighties. It is an attitude that hardens their hearts, and makes life cheap in their eyes.

[seabeyond]

22. i didnt see it in the 60's and 70's. i didnt start seeing it until 80's

but really so in the 90's. i agree with you. it is not about pointing finger at cops either. it is about rcognizing there is a problem and addressing it. too many people are so busy defending police, they ignore what i see as a very real problem for this nation and this problem extends to the very police forces they are trying to defend. it does no one any good to ignore this or pretend it isnt true.

[MadHound]

24. It started appearing in the larger cities during the '60s and '70s

Probably as part of a police backlash against the anti-war, civil rights and other protests. It got a boost under Nixon from his tough law and order stance, and his initiation of the War on Drugs. But you're right, this attitude really took off under Reagan during the eighties, and has continued to grow ever since.

It has become a real problem, and this effort to blame it on a "few bad officers" simply doesn't hold water anymore. Sadly, it has become a systemic problem in police departments large and small across the country. If we don't address it, then this is simply going to continue and become worse. It will become a vicious circle that will wind up destroying law enforcement.

[zreosumgame]

50. That was about the same time as SWAT 'teams' were becoming the rage

Guys just back from 'Nam who still wanted to have all the big guns and toys, and pretending they were still military, and that the 'civilians' were in their way. That was the change. the militarization of our police, that and DA's who figure it is their job to get around the Constitution instead of protecting it.

[Kellyiswise]

11. Sounds like these police missed the Iraq call? This is the kind of barbaric

behavior that SOME of the US troops exhibit in Iraq and Afghanistan...killing wedding parties and the like. No doubt it will about the same shrug as those killings earned in Iraq and Afghanistan. People of color just don't count to the white and powerful. I won't hold my breath for someone to be charged with murder in this case.

[riderinthestorm]

26. My speculation is that one of these cops is a Nat. Guardsman, or an ex-Guard

and has done some time in Iraq. This DOES feel like an Iraqi style screw-up doesn't it? Brought on by PTSD?

It'll be interesting to see what the details are when they are finally (if ever) fully released.

[seabeyond]

17. except it is all across the nation, event after event, even larger groups

of police than just a few. like oregon demonstration and cops assaulted peaceful, law abiding citizens with preplanned excuse they threw a bottle, though all evidence shows otherwise. a whole force of policemen that broke law on fellow citizens and not a one of the cops said no

better to ignore there may be a problem, than dealing with it for the betterment of all involved, including the police

[malaise]

29. Well she has two fatherless kids to

support so I hope she sues the hell out of them.

[dbt]

8. When all you have is a hammer,

Everything looks like a nail. The police in this country have way too much power.

Lawnorda! Lawnorda! Lawnornda!

:grr:
dbt
Remember New Orleans

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

9. But-but-they were black!

Doesn't that automatically mean they are carrying guns, and that the police can shoot at will? :sarcasm:

[malaise]

13. Looking at the names of the men

I believe the groom was, and his friends are Jamaican-American. This is going to get ugly. What a horrible slaughter.

Edit - add.

[HamdenRice]

15. I know that area and the cops were insanely incompetent morons

A day or so after the story broke, I realized I know exactly where the shooting occurred. I pass it often. It's a strange configuration because the club is on this deserted strange little street, but the corner is one of the busiest in Queens.

I only realized just how bizarrely stupid the police were when it was reported that a bullet hole was found in a nearby train station.

The news reports don't convey, however, that the train station they are talking about is not some lonely little subway stop, but one of the biggest train stations in Queens -- it's the equivalent of the Grand Central Station of Queens, where the Long Island Railroad, the new Kennedy airport train, and the Archer Avenue subway line (the E and J) all converge. Apparently, the police began shooting only when the car approached the corner where the Jamaica Station comes into view.

In other words, in addition to executing the bridegroom for a traffic accident, and shooting his friends multiple times, the cops were firing wildly into the Grand Central Station of Queens at the start of the morning rush hour. One cop apparently emptied his clip, reloaded, and emptied his second clip.

How stupid is that?

[Nikki Stone1]

34. Everyone should read your description of the location, Hamden Rice

The whole thing gets more and more bizarre when you get all the facts.

[HamdenRice]

40. Folks don't realize the cops were firing wildly next to Queens' Grand Central

Jamaica Station is huge and by 4 am the early commuters are filing in. For bullets to be found in the station means that the police bullet flew down an entire city block, past a taxi rank full of waiting taxis, into presumably into one of the stairways to the LIRR tracks or into the main waiting room.

Whatever happened between the police and the club patrons, the firing wildly down Sutphin Blvd is criminal negligence.

[DemonFighterLives]

19. What a nice wedding gift!

:argh:
A couple weeks ago, a fellow who I actually knew was blasted at 52 times and killed. I'm not saying he was a great guy and shouldn't have stabbed someone and pulled a shotgun out on the cops. It was later found out that the shotgun had no shells in it
The barrage of bullets is still inexcusable. A couple years ago, a man with a mental problem and a sword was killed. Apparently the police couldn't wait for the intervention task force.
:hide:

[enid602]

20. utopia

Yet another attack on the Seinfeldian image of a NY utopia. They'll have to spend more money on PR.

[benEzra]

27. When my wife first saw this story,

she commented that if a tough-looking guy dressed in street clothes followed her out of a bar to her vehicle, and then stepped in front of her vehicle to block her path as she tried to pull away, she'd assume he was a mugger or carjacker, and would probably keep going and make them get out of the way. That's what most of us would probably think. And if you asked any security expert what to do if you are trying to pull out of a parking space in a bad neighborhood late at night, and a young, tough-looking male blocks your way, "lay on the horn and keep going" would probably be the dominant advice--not "stop, turn off the radio, and listen to what he's shouting to see if he's an undercover police officer instead of a carjacker."

It's not entirely clear whether the people in the car knew the person following them and cutting off their escape route was a police officer, or if they thought he was a criminal. But I can see how I or my wife could get shot, were we in a similar situation.

[Marie26]

28. Probably not, unless

you are African-American.

[malaise]

30. And that is the key to this story

plain clothes cops in an unmarked car. I sure would not be stopping.

[benEzra]

33. From another thread, it looks like that's the way it went down...

the wedding party thought the undercover officer was a mugger/carjacker with a gun, and tried to get away, if this news story is accurate:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime_file/story/474965p-399546c.html

Everything from the number of shell casings around the car to the absence of a gun inside it to the witness accounts suggests the police officers who shot three unarmed young men early Saturday morning did so in the mistaken and panicked belief they were in mortal danger.

The same facts and statements suggest the three young men in the car who repeatedly tried to crash past an unmarked police van did so in their own mistaken and panicked belief they were in mortal danger. One was climbing into the back of the car when he saw a tall figure in street attire approach in the early morning darkness.

"Yo, my man, come here, my man, let me holler at you," the figure was heard to call out.

The tall figure was holding something black by his side.

"He's got a gat! He's got a gat! Be out! Be out!" the young man climbing into the car shouted.

The figure was an undercover cop, but by one witness account neither he nor his comrades announced themselves as police officers until after Sean Bell tried in vain to drive away and six to 10 shots were fired.

"That's when somebody started shouting, 'Police! Police! Put your hands out! Put your hands out!'" recalls witness China Flores.

The shooting only intensified.

"That's when all hell broke loose," Flores says.

One cop fired 31 times, but regardless of how he is ultimately judged by the law, a harsher public judgment should be reserved for the senior commander at the scene. This lieutenant is said to have been so certain he was being fired upon he ducked under the dashboard of his undercover vehicle while the cops he was supposed to supervise fired a total of 50 rounds.

Tragic, and the wedding party's reaction is understandable.

[Nikki Stone1]

36. Undercover cop that didn't announce himself? Sounds like the Steve Foley case (SD Chargers)

where a cop on his way home in an unmarked car started to tail Foley on the freeway.

www.signonsandiego.com/sports/chargers/20060907-9999-7m7foley.html

What is this with cops not identifying themselves?

[benEzra]

37. Maybe they forget they aren't in uniform? (n/t)

[rocktivity]

35. If they didn't know the cops were undercover

They had every right to defend themselves!

...The club was under surveillance by a unit looking for evidence of prostitution, illegal guns and drug dealing...

...According to the police commissioner...a fight broke out outside the (c)lub...and one of the stag party group shouted "Yo, get my gun". According to an undercover officer on the scene, Mr. Bell then said, "Let's fuck him up", referring to a man involved in the scuffle.

The officer followed Mr Bell and his friends as they got into their Nissan Altima. "As the undercover officer approached the front of the car, the car moved forward, striking the undercover ...It then ploughed into the front of the police minivan that had just turned south of Liverpool street. The driver of the Altima put the car in reverse and drove backward on to the sidewalk, slamming into a roll-down gate of the building there, close to where the undercover officer was located. The driver put the car into forward and rammed the police minivan a second time."

There was a physical altercation? Between who--the wedding party and other club patrons, or the wedding party and the cops? They got into their car, hit one the guys who was attacking them, and hit an unmarked car who tried to block them? That does not compute, and that's REAL bad news for the cops if this is the best explanation they can come up with!

:headbang:
rocknation

[seabeyond]

38. this is the cops story. they were going to get a gun and rough up

lending to the cops reason for fearing life. yet they got in the car and took off? doesnt sound to me like retrieving an item from the car

another report said a party of eight, they slit up outside of club going to different cars. doesnt sound like a fight

and another is that a cop walked up, armed and saying yo come here..... per passenger in car

[rocktivity]

41. But why did the police approach/follow them in the first place?

They haven't offered a coherent answer to that question more than 48 hours after the fact, which is extremely troubling.

:headbang:
rocknation

[seabeyond]

42. from the police i understand it is a cop was listening to the scuffle

outside the club and heard one of the guys say he was going to get a gun. that is supposedly why they followed them. but then as i say, that makes no sense. the guys then got into the car to leave. not reach in the car to get a gun and go back and rough up someone.

[Beelzebud]

45. Is it just me, or a lot of law enforcment becoming Judge, Jury, and Executioner?

[nebula]

46. The Patriot Act allows cops to be judge, jury and executioner.

[sweetheart]

47. Really judge dredd was kinda funny with stallone

... but at least those judges were chartered as such.

The drugs war has cast such a pall on the whole concept of civility,
and now police gun people down in the street in multiple cities,
and are premptively excused, apologized for and accepted,
collatoral carnage in a war desgined to destroy our
own kids, our own civil institutions,
and there we can all sit, crying for
our dead kiddies killed by the police
to keep us safe from experience.

As if it was not heinous enough to do it in iraq, the nazis are
not satisfied until they command the heights of arbitrary death on
every continent, drunk with the blood of their power, polonium 210
in every dissidents drink, or a bullet from an unmarked cop.

[symbolman]

49. I had cops beat the shit out of me for years

after Nam was over. I felt that I had the right to say NO when I felt like it and they didn't think that was proper at all, a few funny times tho, one of my room mates beat up the entire Winthrop Harbor police force while I laughed from the car :)

I could write a book. :)

This is OUTRAGEOUS tho, far beyond the pale, and execution if there are no shots fired back..

[zreosumgame]

51. and the mayor has already poisoned the well

Since he has already cleared them of any wrong-doing, how can there possible be a 'fair' investigation?

"New York's mayor, Michael Bloomberg, urged patience, saying it was too early to draw conclusions. "We know that the officers on the scene had reason to believe an altercation involving a firearm was about to happen and were trying to stop it," he said.

Richard Brown, the borough's district attorney, promised a "full, fair and complete investigation".

[Tony Soprano]

52. Atlanta

on edge after the murder of a 92 year old Granny.