settle this argument re: DMV, racism, terrorism, and privacy issues

[grasswire]

I was in a discussion regarding the whole movement toward infringement of our privacy and freedom of association and this question came up:

Are state DMVs checking NCIC records prior to issuing drivers licenses?

As we all know, a disproportionate number of men of color have a criminal record in this country, partly due to the war on some drugs. Are these people being restricted from obtaining drivers licenses or IDs because records are checked by a DMV-NCIC interface?

The matter of air travel could also be affected if DMVs are including criminal information on the magnetic strip on the ID card.

[Cerridwen]

1. Not yet...

There is, however a lot of concern over the Real ID bill which is to take effect in 2008 (interesting timing, huh?)

One example of the concern which dovetails with what you're talking about is

The REAL ID Act establishes a national ID card by mandating that states include certain minimum identification standards on driver’s licenses. It contains no limits on the government’s power to impose additional standards. Indeed, it gives authority to the Secretary of Homeland Security to unilaterally add requirements as he sees fit.one link found on a quick google there are more. Google Real ID

The concern is what the additional requirements to be added might/could be. Would they include criminal records? Credit scores? Medical history? etc.

[grasswire]

2. wow, medical history too

And who could read the cards? Employers? Insurers?

[Cerridwen]

7. The thing is...I don't think anyone knows

There aren't any limits on it; I'm basing this on a quick read of the act and the National Association of Governors response to the act as well as several legislators, like the one linked in my previous post, who are questioning just what the act encompases.

At first it would be "limited" to driving and traveling. But every job I've had has needed to see my ID in some form or another. So, maybe employers. Think of all the places we "have" to show our ID. If they have the equipment to read the RFID technology...

I'll leave the rest to you.

[snowbear]

3. I can answer this one (Cerriden is right -- not yet..)

I work in law enforcement and deal with DMV all the time.

The only time that NCIC is checked on someone at the DMV counter is when they happen to have a local (in-state) warrant show up on the computer for their arrest - or when they're turning in an out-of-state license that turns out to be revoked or suspended.

It's complicated because everyone who walks in the door for a license has a different circumstance.

..If you're obtaining a license or ID in your own state and turn in ID from your state.. you take the required tests, and unless a local (statewide) warrant shows up on the computer, neither NLETS or NCIC is checked. It just takes too long to check everyone who is clear in the state they're turning in paperwork from.

..If you're obtaining a license or ID in a state, but turning in an old license from another state, then something called "NLETS" is checked from that particular state. If you walked into a DMV counter in Arizona and turned in a license from Connecticut, the DMV operator would run an NLETS check in CT.

If the DMV operator wants, they can type in up to 5 states at once to check in NLETS. It takes time to get the responses though since they come back from each state one by one.. The only time they do this (check surrounding states) is when they have a hunch the person may have more than one license.

If the license in the state they check comes back valid and clear, the transaction continues. If the license comes up revoked or suspended ... OR ... if the NLETS system indicates a warrant out of the state the person was from, then NCIC is checked for national (felony) warrants.

NLETS (statewide checks) actually take a little longer than NCIC checks. NCIC is super fast (seconds) while NLETS checks take a couple of minutes..

When a law enforcement center enters warrants into the computer, there are two types.. "Statewide only" or "Statewide (NLETS) plus NCIC" There are millions of warrants that aren't entered into NCIC because they're not felonies (like traffic warrants) or sometimes because the state entering the warrant won't extradite the person back if they're arrested. A lot of times you'll see warrants come up that say that the state who entered the warrant will only extradite if the person is arrested in certain surrounding states.

I'm sure that if the government had its way, that EVERYONE who walked into DMV would have statewide and national checks done on them.. But it's time consuming.. So as strange as it seems.. NCIC checks during DMV transactions are pretty rare.

NOTE: Anyone pulled over on a traffic stop =DOES= have an NCIC check done.. EVERYONE!

[grasswire]

4. so they ARE checking already, on a state basis.

They are checking applicants for drivers licenses for in-state warrants. Right?

What do they do if someone is standing at the counter who has warrants? I've never seen anyone arrested in the DMV, and don't even think there is security available.

Are they doing this for non-driving IDs, too?

I'm trying to get at the idea of whether people are being disqualified from voting because they are afraid to go get a state ID or drivers license even though they legitimately could vote, but are afraid of contact with "the man" just through cultural experiences.

[snowbear]

5. The person accessing DMV records see's **ANY** in-state warrant

The DMV agent (in just about every state) has a system in place of either contacting the law enforcement agency themselves -- or alerting a co-worker to contact the police.

The law enforcement agency responsible for the warrant (state or city) will quickly pull up the warrant info on their end (all while the DMV agent is stalling the client with the warrant) and the agency who entered the warrant will let DMV know whether they'll respond or not.

It's remarkable how many traffic warrants they will NOT respond on (it depends on how big the warrant is $$$ or sometimes how available the cops are)... If they choose not to respond, they'll have the DMV agent at the counter inform the client of the warrant, and to go to the courthouse and take care of it before they are issued a license or ID. Just because you haven't seen it... trust me, it happens at every DMV --- every day.

Could be that your DMV is just very good at having law enforcement slip in and take the subject with the warrant aside.. They probably take them into custody somewhere besides the main DMV Lobby so that John Q. Public isn't freaked out.

Yes, it's done for identification cards as well. Most states utilize the same number for driver's licenses and state ID cards.. but even states that may not use the same numbers -- the warrant will show up regardless if the person has a license or not.

There's probably a LOT of people who know they have small traffic or other minor warrants, but who can't afford to take care of them - who don't vote because of it.. I've always thought that some of the smaller warrants should be removed after a certain period of time if the person doesn't commit the same offense.. but the warrants generally stay put until they're taken care of.

[grasswire]

6. thanks for the info

Some might construe it as a form of intimidation. When dissent is criminalized (God help us all if it ever is) then all of these privacy issues will not work to the benefit of dissidents.

[Cerridwen]

8. Thanks, larissa, for the additional information.

I don't think people are yet aware of what the Real ID Act is going to mean to "we, the People." It's pretty scary.