Who thinks we are about to find out Bush and his minions crimes are more odious than we imagined?

[NNN0LHI]

I am just saying prepare yourself for the worst and don't be surprised at anything. This is not going to be pleasant for any of us.

Don

[LiberalEsto]

1. Me!

And I think we will find out even worse things nine or ten years down the line.

[fooj]

2. I think that even those of us who are "braced" for the truth will be horrified.

IMO, the TRUTH can't come out soon enough. It's the only way we'll be able to move forward.

[indepat]

44. We've seen the icebergs but not what lies beneath the surface

[pearl]

3. I expect those of us with

membership in "The Grassy Knoll Society" will have a lot of company.

[malaise]

4. Nothing will surprise me

I've known they're criminals for ages.

[baldguy]

5. I don't know, I can imagine quite a lot.

[dflprincess]

6. As far as I'm concerned "the worst" would be

if none of these criminals get convicted.

[aquart]

11. You know what? You're right.

[ck4829]

7. Without a doubt, yes.

[drb]

8. ...except me! I'm really looking forward to that midnight scraping sound....

...as the very fucking last person scrapes the "W" sticker off their bumper!

[G_Leo_Criley]

31. LOL!

yessss! :rofl:

glc

[elocs]

9. I just love it

when somebody uses "minions" and "odious" in the same sentence. You just don't see that everyday. Cool!

[BlueIris]

10. Ding ding ding. My spidey sense is tingling.

Bush...is very vulnerable right now, is the main impression I'm getting.

[China_cat]

12. I don't think it, I KNOW it.

I'm waiting for the pit with the bodies in it to be discovered; the orders to take out certain widely beloved liberal congressional leaders; the smoking gun on 9/11 (like the phone calls between Bush and the hijackers) They're there and someday somebody's going to find them.

[daninthemoon]

13. They've been so blatant and unabashed, the real underpinnings

will be horrific.

[dailykoff]

14. Here's what's going to be even more odious:

seeing how many Americans have no problem with any of it and even try to explain it all away, starting with the usual media suspects.

Murder, rape, torture, the financial ruin of multiple countries including the US, you name it, they'll excuse it, and their pious listeners will hang on every word.

You're right, it isn't going to be pleasant.

[stillcool]

15. uh-oh...what did I miss?..

time to trot over to the greatest page...

[Aviation Pro]

16. Why do you think the Little Monkey Crime Organization.....

...is securing their "safe havens" abroad? Because as soon as we find out what they've done, they're going to bail.

[WHAT]

57. you know, a fortress can also be a prison...

I think "safe haven" may not apply as in olden days. At times, I think the permutations of global social organization might be reflective of 'web' interconnectivity. Who's to say when group effort has a synergy that isolates think tanks and managerial direction/instruction.

God (I wish Butler was alive to explore the possibilities here in scifi). Out-of-control thought gone wild might have some surprises for everybody, especially technology that might come from it. I bet you have your own ideas because of your name...aviation may not be a boon if land access can be capped from above and borders walled.

well...

[WinkyDink]

17. I'm not expecting to be surprised; I AM expecting to be repulsed.

I'm one who thinks the entire raison d'etre of the "war"---nay, this "Administration"---is to loot.

Well, that and to kill. We ARE "led" by a cabal of psychopaths.

[nolabels]

55. I don't know if you have seen this movie but.......

But I think the mass insanity we see around us is spawned by the mother psychopaths of them all.

The ugly truth that the SCOTUS declaration of the corporation being a person is what got us here. In the latter part of the movie, the psychoanalysis and diagnosis of the the entity after the fact appears to me to be quite apt.

Sunday Movie: The Corporation
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2802992

[thingfisher]

63. Corporatism is at the root of our problems alright!

"The love of money is the root of all evil."

[MikeNearMcChord]

18. I think futrue historians, will wonder

What the F*** was the American people thinking, why was this guy was elected twice?(yes I know about the Florida shenanigans and the Diebold machines in Ohio, but still there was large number of people who voted for Shrubous Boobious Maximus) Conservatives in the future will be writing volumes about how they were hijacked by the Shrubmen, and say this was not a conservative government

[tavalon]

42. Salem witch trials

McCarthyism. There are many more. We are a stupid, easily led people. We seem more gullible than most, though our German brethren did compete well in the first half of the last century.

[hvn_nbr_2]

53. Future historians will wonder....

To future historians, Florida, Diebold, and small margins of victory will be the relatively minor questions. The big question that will puzzle them is this: How in the world could such an evil, corrupt, odious regime have even been taken seriously as a candidate for re-(s)election in 2004? The fact that Dumbya could have even made it through the first primary in 2004 is a serious indictment of the collective sanity, good will, and reason of the American people. Even considering for a moment the possibility of re-upping with this gang of neocons is proof that America has been high on some bad shit for years.

[porphyrian]

19. Heads will explode. - n/t

[liberal N proud]

20. It is just another, "how can it get any worse" moment that will be outdone

They will blow any expectations of how low it can go once again, I am sure.

[Octafish]

21. An Iceberg of Treason

From SCOTUS Selection 2000 to Enron Energy Policy to Korporate Korruption to 911 to Illegal Iraq Invasion to Plame Affair to e-Selection 2004 to Katrina Katastrophe to Torture Inc to Domestic NSA Spying to just about everything else the little turd from Crawford and his cronies have done that we do know about is, in reality, just the tip of the surface.

[leveymg]

41. The one nice thing about TIA is that the NSA has tapes of virtually everyone,

including the BFFE in action. When these tapes leak, it will blow their minds.

[thingfisher]

64. Right on Octafish.!

The nightmare I live with is that somehow these criminals will be allowed to fade away without ever being truly confronted with their crimes or being justly punished by our judicial system. These wr well connected deeply entrenched people who know how to fight real dirty. I will not be surprised by anything that comes to light, even if only a small percent of what I already know comes to the surface I will be grateful.

[symbolman]

73. I love it when you talk dirty :)

Actually, all laid out like you did there scared the shit out of me.. I am fairly well read on all this stuff, but you sort of compartmentalize it all, getting one scandal after another inures you to it, and I really think that was part of the plan, keep everyone hopping..

Someone realized that when they said america was "scandal weary" that there was a perfect scam there, maybe a psyops guy - "Hey, let's just PEPPER these fuckers with so many scandals they can't keep track of them, by the time they even TRY to LIST them, we'll be GONE.."

Yep, it's scary, thank god for Waxman, I can see him Making a List and Checking it Twice over the Holidays :)

[KoKo]

22. Nothing about the Bush Crime Family Dynasty would surprise me.....BUT

the extent to which both Dems and Repugs in Congress supported them, might be the surprise. We focus here so much on the Bushies we forget the "enablers," and I hope every damned one of them is caught out and prosecuted. Along with some Think Tank notables and assorted other Corporate Enablers.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

23. Bet on it.

There's all kinds of corruption and evildoing about to come to light. I wouldn't put anything past those ghouls.

[Blackthorn]

24. *raises hand*

You ain't seen nothing yet.

DUH DUH

Ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-baby you just ain't seen nothing yet.

[NastyRiffraff]

25. Nothing about these thugs would surprise me.

And I mean NOTHING, up to and including murder and treason.

Henry Waxman has been gathering info for years...let the subpeonas begin.

If you remember, the Republican "rallying cry" was basically: "vote for us, so we don't get indicted" Their worst nightmare is happening, plus they're turning on their own now.

[Cleita]

26. I hope we do find out.

The tip of the iceberg is odious enough. Wait until the whole thing surfaces and is beached. I know they will keep trying to prevent it but I hope it all comes out and is preserved for history.

[G_Leo_Criley]

27. "more odious than we imagined"

Yes, unfortunately. Definitely.

glc

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Does the sun rise in the morning?

:-)

[Minnesota_Lib]

29. As the investigations of known scandals proceed, many caught in the web will start singing...

...like canaries to save their skins and this will lead to the uncovering even more nefarious shenanigans that we know little or nothing about now.

[G_Leo_Criley]

30. "many caught in the web will start singing..."

Yes! That's our fervent hope. I think that many have been singing already.

As you say, even more nefarious shenanigans will come to light this way.

glc

[seabeyond]

32. i assume we only know the piece of it. lots to find out n/t

[mentalsolstice]

33. Oh so bittersweet...

..will be my reading pleasure post-2009, as it will come with the knowledge of those who have died at the hands of the corrupt BushCo regime.

[mentalsolstice]

34. self-delete

[mentalsolstice]

35. self-delete

[leftofthedial]

36. imagine the worst you can possibly imagine

the truth, if it is ever exposed, is FAR worse than that

this gang have stolen trillions of dollars from America

had they not, America would be a virtual utopia

[Subdivisions]

37. I definately feel that we only suspect a small portion of what

is to be discovered about these devious, evil scoundrels.

[OneBlueSky]

38. and the race is on . . . can they declare (and implement) martial law . . .

and get all of us locked up in detention camps before we bring them down -- and to justice . . .

[shanti]

62. that's what scares me

because you KNOW they DO NOT want anything uncovered, and will pull out the stops to make sure that it doesn't happen!

[rman]

39. I think you underestimate my imagination

I doubt that everything will be uncovered, especially if investigations remain limited to the current regime.

[Philosoraptor]

40. They'll need an escape plan if they don't already have one.

[tavalon]

43. Paraguay

Don't worry. They have one in place.

[ms liberty]

45. Me: It's gonna be fugly...and not unexpected for those of us who've been paying attention. n/t

[ToeBot]

46. I don't think the worst of it will ever come to light, regardless of Democratic investigations. nt

[formercia]

47. Having been on the inside

I have no doubt there is much more to see. The sad part is that the career intel officers who see what's really going on know the shit is going to hit the fan and wish they had never been involved.

The Bushes are gangsters in the true sense. If you try to protest, even if you are right and are doing it to prevent the blowback you know is going to happen, they will crush you. It happened to me. 23 Years later they still have their boot on my neck and use me as an example as to what happens to those who protest.

If you ever wonder why few stood up and said no, it's because the consequences can be fatal. The least they will do is destroy your life and drive you into homelessness and alienate you from your friends and family.

If it wasn't for the Internet, I would probably be dead, either from suicide or assassination.

There have to be laws with severe penalties to protect whistleblowers from the Executive.

[MilesColtrane]

48. Will we find camps in Montana...

"processing" American citizens who've been accused of treason?

Or, just a handful of political murders?

Neither would surprise me.

Bush will flee to Paraguay. I believe he's already purchased land there.

The latest extradition treaty signed between the U.S. and Paraguay states, in Article IV, that a person cannot be extradited for "a political offense". So Bush is covered there.

I think Cheney's recent trip to Saudi Arabia was cover for his purchase of a retirement bunker.
The United States has no extradition treaty with Saudi Arabia.

[happydreams]

58. Paraguay refused to let WWII Nazi Joseph Mengele be

extradited and this walking one-man horror show went on to have a business relationship with the Reagan Administration.
You can bet the only way we will get Bush out of Paraguay is to invade it for harboring "terrorists".

Do you have a link on that extradition treaty?

Thanks

[PATRICK]

49. All those different perceptions

Absent real facts about the inner workings of the crooks in charge we have been regaled with the middle road and high road homogenization of moderate "wisdom" or fantasy praise. The moderate wisdom allows that Bush is dumb, incompetent, a decent likable fellow, religious(maybe too much so), able at some time to try something better(though he NEVER does in fact). This middle road is stunned by events like Katrina and is weaned by the slow meltdown of the Iraq victory myth mostly to the point of standing in awe at the tragedy- not the Decider. The middle road is mostly about staid institutional myths anyway and expects the white guy in the white suit to deserve the respect they give out.

Of course we know the high road, the frantic praise for Bush that seeks others to blame and will destroy any man or myth that gets in the way. To see these two imaginary images conflict can almost be amusing were it not that the entire nation gets mentally fogged over and tied in knots in inchoate rage when things 'don't work out".

Now as to our guessing about the facts. Evidence, quite blatant, shows gutless, selfish, lazy Bush capable of approving torture, giving away the store and publicly psychopathic toward the poor and his victims. The Bush family plan may have a dark Straussian agenda or simply a venal dynasty one. Considering their mental capacities and enjoyment of leisure I think the easier and more personal profit motive is the thing. Since they hire others to do dirty work and take the heat, cronies and true believers on the same amoral plane you will probably see more horror stories on the workaday level their- as among Hitler's starry staff. It would be like peeling away an onion. Maybe in that pathos a murder order or two, some disgusting personal vice, some allegiance with some political death cult.

While George II is capable of anything a coward with power needs to do, what makes Democrats nervous is the larger cancerous growth that has spread to all institutions and their own party. Knowing the middle road perception is 80% BS they still prop it up rather than go after this particular empty crown beast.

In our logical press for impeachment or criminal investigations the only way at getting at some facts, we get another Catch-22 thrown at us. The disease that is threatening America is protected by its secrecy and the middle perception stops where it could be broken by simple truth. So we CAN'T go too far because of the perception barrier. Well, many such wagon circlings have been broken. This fraudulent lunacy can vanish as well and the establishment evils posing as accepted policy myths can go with them and will not be missed by a grateful humanity.

Besides Bush who hides behind every fold in Lady Liberty's skirt, we now recognize what an unrealized and incomplete version of America preceded this test. We never had some of the things we thought we lost and we never knew how bad even the visible things were. The past has become coma, the present a comma and the future a blank text that some hand will scawl on. Let it be the best- not the dismal worst- that humanity has to offer and let it be illumined by as much truth as possible.

[devilgrrl]

50. I don't think, I already know!!!!

And they'll get away with everything.

[madokie]

51. you know it.

[moondust]

52. The most secretive administration ever.

There's likely a very good reason for that. No telling what kind of gangrenous stench is festering behind that curtain.

[wryter2000]

54. Oh, man

I think we've only seen the tip of the iceberg. I also think that Bush/Cheney will refuse to obey subpenas and things are going to get very ugly.

[Lilith Velkor]

56. I don't, but that's because there's nothing I'd put past them.

[goforit]

59. Yes... I'm prepared. It will be tens years of shock and awe.

[HamdenRice]

60. To be blunt: Here are three of the most horrible things we will learn

1. Some of the sectarian violence in Iraq was fomented by US and UK forces. That's the only conceivable explanation of the capture of British SAS soldiers, dressed as Arabs, firing on a police station and having a car loaded with explosives.

2. The response to Katrina was deliberately delayed and disinformation disseminated as part of an opportunistic, improvised plan to eradicate the blue spot of New Orleans from the red state of Louisana, and then the survivors were bussed to the far corners of the country to ensure they could not rebuild.

3. The Bush administration was involved in permitting 9/11 to happen, if not facilitating it.

If these three things are disclosed, there will be hundreds of thousands of protesters in the streets of DC, and unfortunately for the regime, as it tries to slink away in its limos, most of these demonstrators won't be nice, peaceful lefties like us -- they will be the radicalized "black helicopter" nutjobs of the 90s, and they will be armed and in a very nasty mood.

[windbreeze]

68. Agree totally....n/t

[MilesColtrane]

61. 1998 Extradition Treaty with Paraguay

Article IV:

"Extradition shall not be granted by the Requested State if the offense for which extradition is requested is a political offense."

It then goes on to eliminate the possibility of an assassin avoiding extradition by claiming the murder as a political offense.

In a hypothetical scenario, whether or not Bush could be extradited from Paraguay depends on what he would actually be charged with.

If he were charged with treason, would treason be considered a political offense?

http://www.oas.org/juridico/mla/en/traites/en_traites-ext-usa-pry.pdf

Article IV is on page 14.

[symbolman]

74. How about ShopLifting

until we get him HERE and then, "Oh my gosh, JUST LOOK at all these Parking tickets, will ya? Ooops, apparently there are a few nasty Little WAR CRIMES here as well.. no worry, we'll sort them out..you'll be home before Dinner.. just SIGN HERE.. oh THOSE? Why, THOSE are called Testicular Electrodes, or as YOU called them Once joking, 'A LIE Detector!' Won't this be FUN?!" :)

[petunia.here]

65. Absolutely, positively

YES!

[windbreeze]

66. We haven't got a clue....

about what this bunch has really been up too...think about what we presume to know....then multiply that by the thousands....and let's not forget...whatever they've been about on the sneak in the last 6 years...they have been laying the groundwork for, for many decades....in two years, we will never begin to come close to exposing it...the depth to which their corruption goes, would be unbelievable to most of us, because our minds don't work on those levels...and certainly we don't think all those signing statements are for nothing???
windbreeze

[calimary]

71. Not just the signing statements and the general secrecy, but don't

forget also - one of the first things this bastard did after he "TOOK" office the first time was to sign an executive order locking away the reagan and bush 1 presidential papers for decades more. And I believe the conventional embargo on the reagan papers was about to expire at that time. That, there and then, made me wonder what he was trying to hide, and made me assume the worst. And that was months before 9/11.

[haydukelives]

67. Me

[NoBushSpokenHere]

69. I am reading your statement different than others have

Quote "I am just saying prepare yourself for the worst and don't be surprised at anything. This is not going to be pleasant for any of us."

_______________________________________________________________
It sounds as though you are expecting something else to happen? I mean, *most* of us already believe MIHOP, and believe they have staged many events... the news breaking these stories would be pleasurable for those of us that believe... so what are you referring to past, present or future?

[truthisfreedom]

70. Cheney's meeting with his handlers in the woods in Florida right now.

Under the guise of "hunting."

[Richard Steele]

72. Not possible.

I don't simply IMAGINE the worst about B*shCabal™, I truly believe it.

[ljm2002]

75. I doubt that anything we may discover...

...will be more odious than I have imagined.

I have two hopes along these lines:

1. We find out the truth -- all of it

2. These bastards get exactly what they deserve -- all of them