I hope Michael Richards (Kramer) will be held accountable for this. . .

[wndycty]

. . .just like Mel Gibson. My fear is that we (Blacks) have no power and Richards will not be held accountable. Additionally, I don't expect much outrage and I expect non Blacks to either ignore or rationalize his behavior. Its kind of sad isn't it. I'm last concerned with is words and more concerned with the larger public and if he will be shamed the same way that Gibson justifably was.

"Kramer's" Racist Tirade -- Caught on Tape
Posted Nov 20th 2006 8:30AM by TMZ Staff
Filed under: Train Wrecks

WARNING: WHAT YOU ARE ABOUT TO SEE IS PROFANE AND RACIAL

Michael Richards exploded in anger as he performed at a famous L.A. comedy club last Friday, hurling racial epithets that left the crowd gasping, and TMZ has obtained exclusive video of the ugly incident.

Richards, who played the wacky Cosmo Kramer on the hit TV show "Seinfeld," appeared onstage at the Laugh Factory in West Hollywood. It appears two guys, both African-American, were in the cheap seats playfully heckling Richards when suddenly, the comedian lost it.

The camera started rolling just as Richards began his attack, screaming at one of the men, "Fifty years ago we'd have you upside down with a f***ing fork up your ass."

Richards continued, "You can talk, you can talk, you're brave now motherf**ker. Throw his ass out. He's a nigger! He's a nigger! He's a nigger! A nigger, look, there's a nigger!"
-snip-

http://www.tmz.com/2006/11/20/kramers-racist-tirade-caught-on-tape/

[THUNDER HANDS]

1. wow, that was odd

I mean, Richards is no Gibson, but I think any potential tv or movie career he might have had is over, if it wasn't already.

[bryant69]

2. It already was over

I mean what's he done since Sienfeld? Nothing.

Although I suppose he still does extra features and commentary on the Sienfeild DVD collections - wonder if he'll keep doing that.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Buzz Clik]

6. He was in a movie. It really, really sucked.

[wicket]

19. The one where he was the bow-tie killer?

Or something like that.

[YOY]

32. "Problem Child" was one major film he did...

He was also in "Transylvania 6-5000"

both bit.

[wicket]

64. Transylvania 6-5000 eh?

Never heard of it - doesn't sound like I'm missing anything :P

[YOY]

67. Jeff Goldblum's slump period...no you are not missing anything!

http://imdb.com/title/tt0090196/

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

89. Hey, He Was In 'Airheads'. Great Flick!

[Warren DeMontague]

142. Yeah, but he was funny as hell in Weird Al Yankovic's "UHF"

But, that was many many years ago.

[zanne]

3. That sounds mentally unbalanced.

Especially if he lost his temper and blurted it out like that. No, he doesn't deserve to have a career.

[lumberjack_jeff]

56. If I was his family...

I'd send him to the doctor. This goes beyond just cranky, racist or offended.

[Buzz Clik]

4. That was special.

Drugs will do that.

[EdwardM]

5. Well he better get himself in rehab.

The Mel Gibson defense FTW!

[helderheid]

7. That's what happens when you interrupt a white man?

:wtf:

Jesus Christ.

[ScreamingMeemie]

9. That's the part that really messed me up too...

:shrug:

I'm stunned...and saddened that I could hear laughter from some (the optimist in me hopes that they were laughing at the ass on stage) and that so many stayed in their seats. :(

[Buzz Clik]

12. Don't be too hard on them. They probably thought it was parody.

People at comedy clubs go there to laugh, and many laugh at just about anything. For them, it would be a nightmare scenario to think that the entertainers were dabbling in reality.

[salin]

43. I am guessing some of it was that uncomfortable

filler - as in wtf should we do now...

I was also sad to see that after some people began to leave (and break that stunned silent/still/"this can't be happening" moment) - that many stayed in their seats.

[Turn CO Blue]

124. Some probably stayed to see if anything else would happen

kind of like a crowd sticking around to watch a house burn ... Maybe they thought that Michael Richards would keep on screaming or get in a fist fight, or that he would be tossed out by the management - or that the management would issue an apology or a REFUND.

My husband is like that...total storm-chaser. It wouldn't mean that he wasn't offended by the guy's racist comments; he just wouldn't want to miss anything wild that might happen next.

[Jokinomx]

148. Many did get up and leave....

I don't know the numbers but one report I saw did state that many customers did leave.... I bet the owners of the club were happy about that eh?

Sad.. is all I can say... :dunce:

[ScreamingMeemie]

169. Not enough...He should have been playing to an empty house by

one minute in.

I bet the club owners never invite him back. :hi:

[Jokinomx]

184. I agree and they did ban him from coming back..n/t

:hi:

[alfredo]

8. Hatred like that had to have been learned on his momma's knee.

Too bad he was too ignorant to outgrow his upbringing.

[Redbear]

10. He has a tendency to go way outside the lines.

He was on a late-night show called "Fridays" back in the late 70s early 80s.

He once did a skit right after John Lennon was shot and said that Lennon's album "Double Fantasy" was number one "with a bullet."

[libnnc]

13. that wasn't going outside the lines--that was a nuclear meltdown

He sounded totally nuts. He's lucky he didn't get a chair thrown at him.

If anyone's going to "get a fork up his ass" it's him. Michael Richards is officially "done".

What a sick loser.

[951-Riverside]

11. So how soon until they hire a token black guy to defend his comments

Sort of like the token Jewish guy who defended Mel Gibson... wait that never happened but it will probably happen in this case because he was attacking blacks. :eyes:

[L A Woman]

14. Not only that, but in this case the audience members heckled him first...

so don't be surprised if he gets more sympathy for that. We didn't hear what THEY said on that video.

it's sort of like the Rodney King video. I don't know how many times I heard, "well we didn't see what rodney king did to deserve that." My response was always, "There was NOTHING he could have done that would have made him deserve that."

[BlooInBloo]

15. I'm not sure what's funnier - the on-going shock of "good whites" at this...

... sort of thing, or the fact that nearly 40% of poll respondents Don't think Cosmo is racist. lol!

Of course it really is a moot point - thanks to the political correctness threads here on DU, we learn that they're just words. Any offense taken is all due to the listener. Stupid listeners. Genuis DUers.

[Buzz Clik]

17. There's nothing wrong with debating politically correct speech.

"Kramer" gives us a clear case of racist remarks, but it is not always so obvious. Some people take offense at words, and we don't know why. Others make comments that we find unfathomable. Challenging the offended or the offending person to explain puts it all on the table.

It's not a matter of genius or lack of it -- it's a matter of open debate and the free flow of communication. Makes for a healthy environment.

[BlooInBloo]

38. Sure. Well, except that the very concept "politically correct" is bigoted.

But other than that, I completely agree with you.

Sheer genius.

[Buzz Clik]

57. You know, the only time I was banned from DU...

was for calling somebody a genius sarcastically during a heated debate. Of course, the poor little flower had to rat me out. I won't do that to you.

However, I will respond: the tirade leveled by this washed up comedian crossed all lines. Your defense of him is ... interesting.

[BlooInBloo]

66. Oooh! A veiled threat!!! Cool!

But please - your genius has already been adequately established - you're preaching to the choir on that issue by making shit up about my "defense of him".

Feel free to run crying to the mods anytime you like - I would never know. Bravery goes well with genius.

[Buzz Clik]

69. I've tangled with you before -- you resort to insults immediately

You're still here, right?

I can take the silly shit you dish out. It's a pity you have no debating skills.

[BlooInBloo]

72. I'm sorely lacking in many areas, it's true.

[Mythsaje]

130. You got banned for that?

That's just creepy.

I've gone more into sarcasm territory than that several times.

[Buzz Clik]

149. This was about 25 months ago.

There was a discussion about Al Gore, and, though I admire Gore, voted for him, and contributed to the recount effort in Florida, I said he botched the 2000 campaign. (No, I don't care to revive that discussion and will not comment further.) I was immediately flamed. Though I felt I was responding in kind, I was given two weeks to ponder the some of life's larger questions. When I asked why I was shown the door, the mod in question said that my comments were unnecessarily rude. The very worst of it was when I called a guy "Einstein" for suggesting I was a freeper. I'm not complaining, just replaying the situation because you asked.

:shrug:

[Name removed]

156. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wicket]

16. Oh dear

:popcorn:

[izzybeans]

18. That is completely f'd up. I am speechless.

[MrPrax]

20. I don't know about outrage...

but it may explain why Seinfeld had so few black characters (or any minority characters other than amusing ethnic immigrant stereotypes...like the Soup Nazi...who looks like Borat)...

Nonetheless, it certainly will be difficult watching Kramer's antics on Seinfeld without thinking in the back of your mind that his contempt for blacks might be a shared belief.

[Ignacio Upton]

22. Larry David is the one who created the show, not Michael Richards

And I loved Kramer as a character (and still do) even if Michael Richards has exposed himself as a racist douche.

BTW, watch "Curb Your Enthusiasm" on HBO. It's what Seinfeld could have been had it not been constrained by network tv.

[MrPrax]

35. Larry David is the director of Borat n/t

[medeak]

55. Borat director quit project

and it wasn't Larry David....

http://www.chortle.co.uk/news/2005/01/18/41/borat_director_quits

[fishwax]

82. that's Larry Charles n/t

[MrPrax]

109. I meant 'Charles'...

I was replying and reading...that is what I was pointing out there is more than one person involved with a show like seinfeld...but there is generally a problem with 'diversity' with television and Seinfeld is no worst than twenty other shows -- whether they be sit-coms or not. It was a cheap shot ;-)

[Strawman]

27. You must not subscribe to The Nation

If you did, you'd have seen Larry David in their "Nobody Owns the Nation" ads regularly. He co-created Seinfeld and he's a good liberal. He's no racist.

[BlooInBloo]

53. (shrugs wide-eyed and vapid-looking) Then what an AMAZING fact...

... that Seinfeld took place in a New York City that was essentially devoid of black folks.

That's just SO amazing. Huh. Looky that. What a unique, inexplicable oversight.

[Strawman]

62. Guess that makes Larry David a racist

Just so I get this straight...

Michael Richards is a racist (True).

And there were not alot of black characters on Seinfeld, set in NY. (True among the main characters at least who were the focus of the show, a white comedian and his three best friends who happen to all be white also. Outside of that I've never counted).

Therefore, it is perfectly reasonable to infer that Larry David, creator of Seinfeld, visible supporter of progressive causes, married to a diehard liberal who is also perhaps the foremost environmental lobbyist in America, and proud subscriber to that racist rag, The Nation, is a closet racist.

Gotcha. :eyes:

By all means, hold Richards accountable. I'd even support,(and have suggested) pulling Seinfeld reruns to hit him in the pocketbook but to say that his behavior and/or the fact that the show was about 4 white friends in NY means that the creators of Seinfeld must have been racists too is just absurd.

[BlooInBloo]

63. (shrug) To present NYC as devoid of black foks is racist.

The denial of that doesn't even pass the laugh test.

[marlo]

159. I really don't understand the criticisms of shows like

Seinfeld, Friends and Sex and the City for their lack of diversity. These programs didn't present New York as a place that is devoid of people of color. They just followed the social lives of a group of people who happened to white. Having lived in NYC and on Long Island, I can attest to the fact that for all of their diversity those areas are, in many aspects, rigidly segregated.

[Hardrada]

96. Sort of like Woody Allen movies!

Some sort of pattern here? Anyway, they did have that black Lawyer who was a parody of Johnny Cochran and they had.....hmmmmm. Anyone recall?

[novalib]

21. Oh, STOP IT!!!!

It's JUST WORDS!!!

Let's EXPAND THE LANGUAGE!!!

Of course, I'm being sarcastic :sarcasm: !!!!!!

But there are some people who think that being "PC" about words is being stupid or ignorant or against free speech.

I THINK THERE ARE SOME WORDS THAT SHOULD NEVER EVER BE USED!!!!!!!!

[lukasahero]

25. Seems a few of us had similar thoughts

Guess PC is only a problem when the words are related to women. :shrug:

PS: "I THINK THERE ARE SOME WORDS THAT SHOULD NEVER EVER BE USED!!!!!!!!" I think there are some words kind and caring people would choose never to use. :)

[Sapphocrat]

95. "Guess PC is only a problem when the words are related to women."

And gay people. And transgendered people.

Otherwise, spot-on.

[Strawman]

23. Best way to do it

The NAACP should be on the phone with every local network affiliate that runs Seinfeld reruns and have them pulled. Hit his ass right in the wallet. He gets royalties from that show. Then he won't be able to brag about how rich he is to the next African-American he harasses.

Here in Detroit, I don't think Fox2 would want that kind of boycott in a majority African-American city. They'll just show some other syndicated reruns.

[zreosumgame]

24. and so?

How does he matter to anyone? Hell, who gives a crap about 'celebrities'?

[lukasahero]

26. Maybe we care about racism. Maybe you don't - your choice. eom

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bloom]

37. On the contrary.

You are the one who doesn't seem to realize that you need a bath.

[lukasahero]

54. Wow - you seem to think you know an awful lot about me

You're also being rather rude. Whatever. Like I said, your choice.

[Buzz Clik]

65. Did you view the video?

The response of screaming racial slurs at the top of his lungs was more than a sharp retort or even a purple rage. If you can't see that, then you won't have many supporters at this place -- nor should you. However, I can help you find a bulletin board where you might feel more comfortable.

[Canuckistanian]

28. How shocking

I never realized he was a flaming racist bigot.

And what a shameful performance as a stand-up, as well. If you can't deal with hecklers gracefully or satirically, you have no business calling yourself a comedian.

[BlooInBloo]

44. No, it's not shocking in the least.

[xultar]

29. You and I both know that nothing will come of this. I mean let's be real.

This will blow over and he'll continue on like nothing ever happened.

[Human Torch]

30. Michael Richards is a footnote at this point

YES, Seinfeld was perhaps the biggest money-maker of all time. YES, Richards will get a HUGE payday tomorrow when the DVD set of Season 7 hits the streets. YES, he was "Kramer."

But since the show went off the air, what has Michael Richards been? How about "jack shit?"

My own two cents: This will be written off as the racist ramblings of a half-wit who used to have a career. I may be wrong...it may be a firestorm that drags on for weeks. I think it will be a brushfire that will be gone in a day or two.

:toast:

[NashVegas]

58. I Can't Help But Wonder

If it's a purposeful attempt to revive said career. The camera started rolling just before he went into his rant? Convenient, that.

I really don't care, I didn't like Richards' stuff way back when he was doing Fridays, and Seinfeld never did a thing for me.

[Human Torch]

79. Old Show Business Axiom: "No such thing as bad publicity."

Richards' work on Fridays was basically Kramer. That's the reason he was able to step into that role...Richards is a one-note solo, like Neil Young's "Cinnamon Girl." One note, over and over and over until the song is over.

Maybe Richards was inspired by Mel Gibson and decided to snatch an additional 15 minutes of fame...who knows.

:toast:

[NashVegas]

80. Who Knows?

I think this is all much ado about nothing. Some people have the ability to make hecklers cringe in their seats and look good doing it, some people don't. So, Richards, doesn't. I did think it was pretty funny to hear the hecklers shouting that Richards' comments were uncalled for.

[progressoid]

33. I bet the ads for Seinfeld's Season 7 DVD will be edited ASAP.

Holy crap.

[mondo joe]

34. Well he's sort of a has-been anyway. I'm not sure what form holding him

accountable could take.

[bloom]

39. Like not getting any gigs at the good clubs.

A lack of an audience. (He obviously had one there).


That's where the people can hold such actions accountable - voting with wallets - with time.


It's not that difficult.


It's the kind of thing where if there were enough racist assholes who wanted to keep such people in business - they could. You choose to be a part of that or not.

[mondo joe]

60. I don't even know if he is getting gigs at good clubs.

I'm not saying he shouldn't be held accountable. Just that it's easier to try to do it if they have enough presence you can actually impact.

[bloom]

76. The one story said it was "a famous L.A. comedy club..."

So that's what I was figuring. It sounded like one of the better clubs.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2764815



Another thread said that he was back the next night. It might be that the club needs to be boycotted - if they don't see that this is a problem.

[wtmusic]

36. What's the fastest way to ensure your own insignificance?

:crazy:

[KharmaTrain]

40. Is He Trying To Channel Andy Kaufman?

I caught Richards live years ago in a small comedy club and am not surprised.. That night he was on a double-bill with the late Sam Kinnison and felt he had to top Sam...doing his version of "shock and awe". He was insulting everyone in the audience...calling women by the most offensive four letter word...and all but driving one lady in the audience to tears. I thought maybe his "mainstream" success would have cooled his jets...I guess he's back to where he was...trying to get attention again. Trouble is he may get the type he wasn't hoping for.

[EFerrari]

48. Whoever the heckler was, he would have reached for the most

outrageous term available to demolish that person. Some people have no gear between "frown" and "flamethrower."

[LTR]

52. Actually, he did scuffle with Andy Kaufmann

Some of you older DUers may remember an SNL-knockoff from ABC called "Fridays", back in the early 80s. Michael Richards was one of the cast members.

Kaufmann was guesting on the show, and was to do a bit (the show, like SNL, aired live) with drug humor. Right in the middle of the skit, he broke character and declared that he would not do it. Richards then went over and grabbed a cue card and threw it at him.

There is documentary footage out there of this (Richards thought the whole thing was pretty funny in hindsight), and it was in the movie "Man On The Moon", though with a different actor in the Richards part. It is unknown whether the whole Kaufmann bit was planned or not.

Not sure why I brought this up, but just a useless bit of trivia.

[Sugar Smack]

161. Or Lenny Bruce.

[salin]

41. actually, there are a whole lot of white folks

who live in homogenous areas, who believe that "civil rights" have all been met, that equality abounds, and that charges of 'racism' are just oversensitivity - because "that sort of thing doesn't happen today..." In short - there is a whole lot of white folk ignorance and denial.

I think that such a visual and ugly display will be quite jarring to many white folks who like to believe things are all fine and dandy along the racial divides in this country.

A number of years ago a good friend was at a conference on bilingual education. She is an expert and was presenting. She is also from South America and while she has no accent, she looks native/south american (indiginous). A conversation among peers took place one evening, where a young white lady turned to the topic of the OJ verdict (which was recent news) - she just couldn't believe the jury fell for the 'questions' lingering about police frame up or intentionally messing up evidence. In her words, such a thing couldn't occur these days. Things have come so far... (forget whether or not one believes OJ's guilt or innocence... this was about the reality of whether or not racist behavior might occur among police or other authorities). So my friend retells a recent story of travelling with her husband and children. Her husband is white. They are both well travelled, and thus have tons of frequent flier miles that they regularly use to bump up from coach to first class. As the boarded the plane her husband slides into a seat in first class. As she begins to follow him, a flight attendant gets in between my friend and the seat. Assuming that my friend was making a mistake, the flight attendent feigns a helpful tone, and asks to see her ticket so she can "help" my friend find her seat. My friend didn't take to it to well, but with grace explained that she was certain that her seat was with her husband. After my friend finishes recounting the story - to make the point there is still subtle and not so subtle racism all around... her young white colleague says... "Why, that just can't be true, I mean this is 1996" (or 1997?) In essence stating for all to hear that MY friend is a liar. All in order to keep her happy insulated white denial in place.

Long way of saying, sometimes these incidents - esp if they become widely known - help shake some awareness into self-declared well intended but blissfully ignorant members of our society.

Btw, Richard's behavior - abominable - and shocking. I hope it gets very wide play.

[bliss_eternal]

87. Thank you for such a thoughtful post.

:)

I just found out about this today and am sitting here in shock. What a horrible thing for this man to say and do.

[Sapphocrat]

104. On the other hand...

Living in a very heterogenous area can result in a greater degree of shock, too. I've always admitted it: I live in a bubble (San Francisco Bay Area), where -- while bigots certainly exist -- you just don't hear garbage like this on a regular basis. I think a lot of it has to do with there being so much overlap here amongst blacks, whites, Hispanics, Asians, MidEasteners, and everyone else you can think of.

We're not all singing Kumbaya together, and I'd be hard-pressed to find someone within 100 miles who wasn't painfully aware of racism. But there's not just "them" and "us" here -- there's not just two groups, or even three, sharing the same space. There are countless different groups, which I believe makes people more colorblind; there's constant exposure to one another, so a lot more familiarity.

So maybe I'm more shocked than most, because I seldom run into such blatant, shameless bigotry where I live.

[ecstatic]

42. My concern is about Jerry--is he racist too?

I actually like(d) the guy, but I can't imagine a scenario in which he would NOT know that Richards was that racist.

[hsher]

61. Jerry, racist? Impossible. But sexist... perhaps :)

Sexist I could see.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

70. They worked together, I doubt they were best buds

I'm sure on a television set away from hecklers, Michael Richards kept his emotions in check.

[bliss_eternal]

88. Seinfeld issued a statement today...

He is upset and hurt by the comments, and stated he is deeply saddened by all of those that were subjected that treatment (I'm paraphrasing as I just heard it on the news).

Jerry Seinfeld is not a bigot. He just worked with one, apparently. :(

[AZBlue]

181. Jerry Seinfeld and Larry David are both very liberal, not racist, people.

eom

[Vinca]

45. Flush one career. What a jerk.

The guy yelling in the audience was right when he said Richards was washed up. The whole thing is pretty shocking.

[Scriptor Ignotus]

46. has he checked himself into alcohol rehab yet?

if he hasn't, he will...

[Zomby Woof]

47. I feel sick to my stomach

[Carni]

49. Jesus the man is unhinged!

I know nothing about Michael Richards personal life views etc.
(other than his Kramer persona) but that was one of the most shocking and appalling tirades I have seen on film.

He's not only racist he has apparently lost it in general as he sounded deranged.

I am very disappointed and disgusted with this!

[Scriptor Ignotus]

50. i feel bad for the true victim here

the comedian who had to do his act right after all that.

[BlooInBloo]

51. Thank you for focussing on the true victim...

... rather than the tens of millions of oversensitive negroes in this country. Thoughts like yours are *exactly* what this country needs to get back on track.

[Scriptor Ignotus]

78. i don't think

the tens of millions of "negroes" you reference really give a crap what Michael Richards says or does.

But just so you know where I'm coming from, I think that what he did was disgusting and unbelievable and he most certainly will feel the aftershock of this for the rest of his life/career. This will harm him far more than it will the black community.

and I think this country is on track, given that most people walked out of the show. Opinions such as his are in the minority.

[WI_DEM]

59. I guess becoming a "has been" has gotten the best of him

His conduct is reprehensible.

[DemonFighterLives]

68. Totally nuts- no defense from me

I think the great divisions created by dubco have contributed to this. I was correcting some family members just yesterday on gays, Muslims etc. I don't know where they developed their hatreds, but it seems to have grown since the neocons came in.
Things are whitewashed over now that would have caused a stir years ago.
I never cared too much for Seinfeld and probably laughed a few time at Kramer, but now he can join his racist buddies on the sidelines while the rest of us try to get along.
:dem:

[bliss_eternal]

105. The neocons, Fox news, Rush Limbaugh, this administration...

has told the world at large--hate and intolerance is ok, hell it may even make your life better. Rush has a fuckin' career standing on the shoulders of the people he has the world convinced are the enemy--the impoverished, those liberals that want their money for those 'social programs', all those BROWN people that killed on 9/11, the BROWN people that cross the border and rob them of all their rights--to good jobs, better livings, etc., etc.

It's not your fault--it's that uppity woman's fault and that damned affirmative action that gave her the job.

It's not your fault, it's that latino guy's fault that got the promotion you were up for, but he got because
he's an "underrepresented minority."

If we let those gays get married, it will ruin YOUR marriage. (They just never say exactly how...)

:eyes:

Hate crimes against the glbt community are on the rise. More interracial couples have had crosses burned on their lawns than they have in many years. Hate crimes against illegal immigrants are rampant because they know the victims can't/won't report the attacks for fear of deportation.

With garbage like Fox on air coupled with this administration--it's absolute war on minorities. They've even tried pitting everyone against each other (immigrants vs. citizens of color, women of faith vs. women of choice, latins vs. blacks). It's all bullshit. The white man is losing control and doesn't like it. All of this is blatant manipulation for control of the country...the way they used to have it.

[DemonFighterLives]

125. I'm glad I'm not the only one seeing it

:pals:

[bliss_eternal]

126. No way...!

Noticed it not long after the boy king took his throne.

:pals::hug::hi:

[Sapphocrat]

160. Well said.

And it always gets worse when the oppressors are in their "last throes". Only, unlike Cheney's estimation about the Iraqi resistance being in its "last throes," the maintainers of the status quo really are losing control, and fast. That's what's behind the anti-immigration hysteria -- that's all it is.

Here, bliss, there was a fantastic post made yesterday that got too little attention, that I think you'll enjoy; while it's all about marriage equality, it dovetails beautifully with your point about the sheer panic of the majority losing control (emphasis mine):

The answer lies in that one all-important word: “equal.” The true crux of the religious right’s morality is hierarchical, unequal sex roles.

Not very long ago, rigid sex roles encompassed all the knowledge necessary to be a good man or a good woman, a good citizen, parent, child. Those roles, with strict dress codes to match, enforced patriarchal inequality and went deep into the economy, designating high-paying, high-status jobs for men and lower-paying jobs, if any at all, for women. It took a bloody civil war to break up the slave economy and begin a movement toward racial equality. It’s no wonder that efforts to break up thousands of years of unquestioned male economic and social dominance have resulted in a cold civil war.

Much more:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x247081

[bliss_eternal]

171. Thank you for the link, Sapphocrat...!

I enjoyed reading your post...I'm going to visit that thread now. I'm sorry that I missed it--you're right it does look interesting!

Thanks again,
bliss :pals::hi:

[AZBlue]

71. He's making a ton of money off the Seinfeld DVD sales (one comes out tomorrow) & show syndication

Wonder if this will affect sales of Season 7 tomorrow? Jerry must be dying!

[Subdivisions]

73. As deplorable as his words were, does that make it ok for

someone to interfere with a comedian, or any other performer (Barbara Streisand comes to mind), while they are doing their job? Doesn't it disrespect the performer and the paying audience when an audience member injects verbal abuse into a performance?

Again, what Richards did was dispicable and, as the audience member said, "uncalled for". Perhaps the man is suffering from psycological problems. What...? Eleven years of sky-high success with fans coming out of the woodwork and then, because someone else decides they want out, your show is over and you're back to telling jokes in bars?

As one poster suggested, perhaps he is not truly a racist but rather grabbed the first verbal weapon that came to mind under the circumstances. Perhaps dealing with his own demons while having to listen to someone yelling "you're not funny" simply pushed him over the edge. The person happened to be black so the most hurtful retort would be what ended up happening. Would he have responded differently if there were a white person there. Who knows?

I'm not used to DU being this vicious. We've all had difficulties and we've all reacted in ways that some may deem inappropriate. We've all said things we didn't mean to say. Michael Richards was wrong to say the things he said. But must we automatically assume that he is at his core a racist?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

75. Shhh.......

Those guys are heroes for pretending to be assholes and exposing the dangerous Michael Richards. Next up, Emo Phillips. :sarcasm:

[salin]

77. its the content of the over reaction...

most of us don't have allusions to lynchings as part of our outburst/over the top repetoire.

a 'nuff said type comment isn't usually a Jim Crow era taunt "this is what happens when you interupt/talk over a white man"

the content of his outburst sorta betrays some attitudes that are hard to write off as being normal and not racist... unless you suggest that most white people harbor such sentiments and are just as likely to have those particular types of barbs to slip out when we go 'over the top' in an over reaction to someone.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

83. ...

"does it make it of to interfere with a comedian?"

If the comedian's dropping a bomb, sure.

"As one poster suggested, perhaps he is not truly a racist but rather grabbed the first verbal weapon that came to mind under the circumstances."

:rofl:

[radwriter0555]

90. Yes. Anyone that uses racist words is a racist. Racism is NEVER excusable,

hate is NEVER to be tolerated, racism is ALWAYS WRONG.

To tolerate racism is to TOLERATE RACISM.

I don't tolerate racism.

[bliss_eternal]

91. Yes, we must.

Sorry if you don't understand that.

The "n" word is inappropriate and only hurled at people in an attempt to assert superiority. Utilizing imagery of lynchings as Mr. Richards did, is an attempt to do the same.

Yes, he at his core is a racist. You are getting that information from many that know the experience first hand.

If you want to be thought a racist apologist, continue to call into question our reactions and make more excuses for his behaviour.

[brentspeak]

132. I find it hard to believe that you don't harbor racist thoughts yourself

as every other human being on the planet does -- blacks, whites, Asians, etc.

[bliss_eternal]

151. Do you have a point...?

:( I'm not the one at the club calling people the n word.

[brentspeak]

172. Call me crazy or stupid, but I don't take Richards' comments alone

as an indication he's a racist. They're racist comments, of course, but my own definition of a racist is someone who discriminates against or harms someone on the basis of the other person's race. After reading the entire story, and watching the videotape, it looked to me that Richards was engaged in what really boils down to an insult-match; the hecklers called him a "white man who isn't funny", he responded by escalating the racial insults to another level. It was basically an ugly, personal conflict between two parties who selected racial epithets as their insults of choice.

If I discovered that Michael Richards has actually discriminated against a black person -- because they are black -- in a material, corporeal way, then I'd have to agree that he would be a racist. And sometimes, of course, non-material things like words can demonstrate racism: using racist words in an intimidating, threatening manner -- like writing "ni&&er" on a black person's house, for example -- is racist. Speaking about a black person as a "ni&&er" behind his/her back, in an attempt to denigrate that person because of their race, is racist.

But words exchanged during a personal, one-on-one argument? They could be the most vile, disgusting racist words one could utter (and actually, some of Richards' words did fit that category), but in a case like that, it's still a case of trying to have the bigger stick to the other person's stone.

[bliss_eternal]

177. Spoken like one that isn't in a position to be discriminated

against.

It's so interesting to me that people like you are so quick to NOT want to label someone the exact thing they are, because it doesn't seem "that bad" to you. You--someone that isn't offended. Why would YOU be offended? Has anyone called you a n*****? Has anyone in your racial group been lynched, denied rights, told they couldn't marry someone they love?

You come up with all of these rationalizations for why or how it may mean something else. Which says to me, you don't belond to any group that is or has ever been discriminated against in the US. If I'm wrong, feel free to share and I will be happy to take my comments back.

Here's a tip: don't assume and don't theorize based on how YOU feel about the situation. Take the time to find some people of color and listen to (or read) what they have to say about the issue. We have African American forums here, btw. When or if you are ever in doubt, err to the side of those that have lived in their discriminated skin their entire lives and just may have a better idea of what it looks and feels like than you. They aren't being "sensitive." There are some words it is never ok to say, under any circumstances. Period.

You need to hear that and try to understand it, because what you've shared here are meaningless rationalizations "for" bigotry, even though you didn't mean to, that's what you've done. SO Not cool.

Respectfully, of course...
bliss

[BlooInBloo]

92. Shorter TexEx: "It's your fault I called you 'nigger', nigger"...

Thank GOD for Texas - where else would people call themselves a Democrat with one breath, and in the next defend the idea that calling black folks niggers doesn't mean you're racist.

Absolute genius.

[bliss_eternal]

94. It IS the state that was responsible for the dragging deaths of

two black men, was it not?

Of course, no offense intended to the Texas DU'ers that understand the difference and would never subscribe to such ideas. But frankly, I get sick of seeing posts like this in threads about obvious racist acts/comments.

Thank you for your comments Bloo...

[BlooInBloo]

100. lol! I'm sure they've gotten more than two.

[fishwax]

107. you're really surprised that

DU'ers would be upset about a comedian hurling racial epithets and talking about lynching in that manner? :shrug:

[Texasgal]

145. Sorry...

But the "N" word should NEVER be uttered in any form.

[JerseygirlCT]

173. Of course, it's not *polite* to interrupt a performance

it's rude to the performer, but also to the rest of the audience.

That said, if the comedian was doing what he's supposed to be doing, that problem would never have ocurred. A funny guy doesn't lose his audience like that. And if he does, he knows how to handle it. Hecklers are sort of standard fair for stand-ups, I think.

None of it excuses what he said. There are a zillion other ways he could have reacted. (the best being the use of humor). Instead, he spewed racist language. Does that make him a racist? I don't know -- guess it depends on how you define racist. Is racist language racist action? I'd tend to say yes.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

74. Yes, because Michael Richards holds so much sway in this nation

I hear he was going to run for president next time out. :eyes:

Really, before today, did you ever even think of the guy? What affect did he have over your daily life? If you are worried about Michael Richards, then you must have successfully wiped out all the real racists in your life, please tell the rest of the nation's black people how you accomplished this feat?

The guy couldn't get arrested in Hollywood before this......now he's shit the bed. A sad washed up comic who thought he'd "shock" the crowd and blew it.

[951-Riverside]

102. Even if popular politician said that shit you would find an excuse

but I get it, Its always the blacks fault they are bringing this stuff upon themselves. :thumbsup: :eyes:

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

122. Bullshit. The point is he's not a politician or making public policy

But thanks for making that kind of assumption about me.

[951-Riverside]

137. Big fucking deal.

Stop nitpicking, If some asswipe decides to exercise his right to free speeach and spews his hateful speech in public we have an equal right to respond regardless he is a politician or not.

[Buzz Clik]

150. No kidding. I hold everyone to the same standards.

[Catherine Vincent]

81. There you go.

CNN just reported it and aired the offensive video.

[yorgatron]

85. what willJackie Chiles think?

[The Count]

84. He's a tad less famous - so, maybe less coverage

But you're right, it's just as bad.
But I am confused: how was Mel Gibson held accountable again?
And since Richards is not running for anything a Macaca or Lott scenario is impossible.
Again, why are we comparing this to Gibson?

[Parche]

86. kramer

Yes he should, I have never liked him, or thought he was funny at all
in fact the show Steinfeld was never funny.
His falling down and stumbling is not funny.

His remarks are even worse

[Sapphocrat]

93. I think you're wrong about the level and scope of outrage.

Additionally, I don't expect much outrage and I expect non Blacks to either ignore or rationalize his behavior.

This white woman is extremely outraged. In fact, my first thought was to drop Tom's Restaurant* a note requesting that if Richards doesn't make some MAJOR amends (and how he could make up for this disgusting display of bigotry, I don't know), they remove the framed Kramer picture hanging next to the door.

I'm not sure how much weight a missive from a non-New Yorker would carry -- but I expect a rally by locals would have some effect.

* The diner on "Seinfeld," which is on the Upper West Side, around 107th Street; Tom's totally capitalizes on being immortalized in "Seinfeld." Great little place, and very convenient when I'm staying at my friend's, right across the street.

Anyway, I'm not ignoring it, and judging from the reaction on DU, neither is any other non-black person. And there's no way in hell this behavior could ever be rationalized.

[bliss_eternal]

97. Thank you Sapphocrat...!

:hug:

[Sapphocrat]

106. As my other half would say...

'Struth, cobba! :hug:

[Bluebear]

99. This white man is sickened,

Watching the clip on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UomfLKQr57U

my stomach twisted in knots...

Then I recall that DUer's are even saying "these are just words! PC must die!" . . .what is happening to us?

May he never again be hired to spend any time in front of a microphone or a camera.

[goclark]

141. I'm with you BlueBear

There are so many ways to get a point across other than the road he selected to go down.

[ikojo]

98. Wow! Doesn't surprise me..

I don't know why it doesn't surprise me but it does not.

[SoCalDem]

101. He will be held accountable from the standpoint that his career is OVER

I never thought he was ever funny anyway.. Odd, yes..but funny? nope..

He better hope he has enopugh money stashed to live on for the rest of his life, because his hateful tirade killed what was left of his "career"..

Say g'night Kramer..and just leave..m'kay?

[951-Riverside]

103. Maybe if he made the same comments againt jews that would be true

but since his comments were directed against blacks, many here, across the internet and beyond consider him a HERO. :eyes: :mad:

[Stand and Fight]

108. Wow... The racist here on DU are showing there true colors...

Especially when they can excuse Richards behavior. Sickening...

[leftofthedial]

110. Do you also hope the guy who called him a cracker is also held accountable?

Was Lenny Bruce a racist too? He said "nigger" alot.

I didn't like what he did, but I'm not so quick to clamp down on free speech.

[Name removed]

111. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluebear]

112. Cracker = nigger to you?

Really?

And holding an audience member "accountable" = holding a public star accountable for his words?

>>>>"Fifty years ago we'd have you upside down with a f***ing fork up your ass." Richards continued, "You can talk, you can talk, you're brave now motherf**ker. Throw his ass out. He's a nigger! He's a nigger! He's a nigger! A nigger, look, there's a nigger!"<<<<

[bliss_eternal]

114. Thank YOU, Bluebear...!

Where do people get this stuff? :banghead:

[Bluebear]

115. I am stunned that here of all places people are defending this guy. nt

[AlCzervik]

116. no kidding.

[Behind the Aegis]

117. You and I both know racism, like other "-isms" plague our side too.

What is a real shame is when it is something as blatant as this, and it is still defended here!

[leftofthedial]

143. I don't think anyone here is defending racism

I abhor what he said

but he had a right to say it

we also have the right to condemn him for it

I also wish we would at least recognize that the heckler had a role in what happened.

[bliss_eternal]

147. Blame the victim...?

You are saying it's the guys fault he was called a racial slur. You are also saying Richards had a right to use a racial slur and to utilize racist lynching imagery. Wow. Clearly YOU are defending a racist and racism.

No one has a right to make racial slurs. If you believe that, you are clearly on the wrong board.

[Name removed]

163. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bliss_eternal]

166. No one's putting words in your mouth.

Read your own post. You say the guy's horrible while simultaneously blaming the heckler, consequently defending the racist.
If you weren't so confused about what racism really is, and who the victim is here maybe you'd understand that.

Clearly you don't. Transparent. :)

[leftofthedial]

118. both cracker and nigger are racist perjoratives, are they not?

I never used an equals sign. You did.

Are we all accountable for being racists or not? Where do we draw the lines between nigger, cracker and actual respect?

I already said I don't like what he did.

[bliss_eternal]

121. Cracker doesn't carry the weight of "n*****"

and if you don't know that, consider yourself informed. Comparing what this guy did to what Lenny Bruce used to do and you wonder why anyone would call you an apologist.

How pathetic, and transparent.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

127. What kind of honky cracker...

would get offended by "cracker?"

Just a bunch of jive turkeys.

[leftofthedial]

134. honkey, whitey jive turkeys?

[Name removed]

129. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluebear]

131. It's not the use of nigger or cracker that sickens me so much...

"50 year ago we would have had you hanging upside down with a fucking fork up your ass..." kind of trumps the cracker comment.

In any case, you said you detested what he did/said too, we're on the same side here.

[leftofthedial]

133. ugly, racist and inexcusable.

to respond to the OP, yes the performer (I'm not a Seinfeld fan) should be "held accountable," although I don't know exactly what that means.

I know I will always think of this vile episode if I ever encounter him again. I also heard he has been banned from appearing at that venue. I suspect his bookings will suffer severely, probably to a career-ending degree.

[brentspeak]

138. I didn't know what he meant by that

I think the audience at first didn't either. They laughed when he said it, probably because they were also annoyed by the hecklers. Then they stopped laughing after he started up with the "ni&&er".

[bliss_eternal]

135. Let's be clear--I don't owe you any explanations..

You want to post on this board and play the pc police, free speech card? Go ahead. You take issue with black men calling you cracker? Take it up with them, when it happens---don't bring it up out of context when some piece of shit uses lynching imagery in a comedy club.

My definitive knowledge as you put it, is reading what you wrote for everyone to see. The arguments you use to make your case, make it quite clear who you are and what you believe in.

[Name removed]

140. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bliss_eternal]

146. You don't sound any better than Rush Limbaugh and friends...

Spare me the "persecuted white male" bullshit. Again, transparent. I can't defend or explain comments that I wasn't privy to-- why the hell should I? No one here could. Again take it up with the "black guys" that called you that.

It's quite clear the way Richards intended his comments--yet you try to defend his comments with your lame argument. The fact that you try to compare the two or use one to explain the other shows you so clearly "don't get it."

[Name removed]

154. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bliss_eternal]

165. The disconnect is with you.

You didn't condemn his comments until others here called YOU on your comments. You blamed the guy that was called the name. You've done it over and over again. Then you backpedaled.

This thread isn't about What the guy "may have said" in reaction to being called hideous names. The fact that you keep bringing it up is why I compare you to Limbaugh.

You slam the guy while you blame the victim. I think that's despicable and I have no problem saying so.

[AlCzervik]

113. i think censorship is a terrible thing, that being said Richards clearly cannot handle a few

hecklers and instead of trying to just make fun of them as most comics do he attacked them for what race they are, that showed his true colors imo, same thing with Mel Gibson. Richards can say sorry all day long but he can't unring that bell.

[leftofthedial]

136. he's a jerk and his career is probably toast

[bliss_eternal]

170. It's too late to backpedal. sir...

I've already seen your comments to the contrary. You can edit and attempt to clean-up your comments all you like. Your other comments were already seen and noted. Nice try, though. ;)

[Pale Blue Dot]

"free speech"

Michael Richards has a right to free speech. And everyone else has the right to condemn him for bigoted, racist remarks. Free speech works both ways.

[bliss_eternal]

123. Yes. Thank you.

:)Good point--well said.

[Zynx]

155. Oh, he has a right to destroy his career and we have a right to publicize

the crap that he said.

[JerseygirlCT]

174. And always, always comes with responsibliities and

consequences.

He'll be learning all about those now, I think.

[HughBeaumont]

119. Damn. Talk about The Day the Laughter Died.

Car crashes such as that are just uncomfortable to watch.

There's wittier ways of dealing with hecklers than racial slurs.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

120. Damn.

There is something deeply wrong with Mr. Richards.

[mdmc]

128. Cocaine is a hella of drug

some black guy said that.

[951-Riverside]

139. No no no you've got it wrong

...its ALCOHOLISM related, it always is. :D

[Buzz Clik]

152. That would be Rick James.

[mdmc]

178. yes sir

:kick:

[Warren DeMontague]

144. Good Grief.

That's all I can say.

[pinto]

153. I'll second that.

[Zynx]

157. What career he had left is over.

This has gotten a lot of really tough coverage. The media does not tolerate racist behavior as it shouldn't. The same went for George Allen.

[cynatnite]

158. What a pig

:puke: Makes me regret ever liking him.

[tinfoil tiaras]

162. I wish he'll be held accountable too

I hate the n-word with a passion--i even hate it when we read it in books like "To Kill a Mockingbird" (good book, btw) or "Roll Of Thunder Hear My Cry" (another good book). And I'm white. I guess it's being from the south, because to me, that word, even with the "a" at the end instead of the "er", just rings of the "Old South"...:puke:

[meisje]

164. Did blacks ignore or rationalize O.J.'s behavior?

It's a two way street my friend.

[ecstatic]

175. huh?

Seriously, how long are people going to continue to reach back to the OJ thing?

[951-Riverside]

176. Some probably did.

Doesnt give me Michael the right to spew such bile hate, "my FRiend".

[k_jerome]

167. my friend, prepare to be not surprised. nt.

[d_b]

168. Reminds me of when

Hicks lost it in Chicago.

[Ms. Clio]

179. what happened?

What did he say?

[d_b]

180. From Wikipedia:

"An infamous gig in Chicago during 1989, later released as the bootleg I'm Sorry, Folks, resulted in Hicks screaming possibly his most infamous quote, "Hitler had the right idea, he was just an underachiever" to a heckler shouting "Free Bird" over and over. Hicks followed this remark by a misanthropic tirade calling for unbiased genocide against the whole of humanity, suggesting that it was not an anti-Semitic comment but rather an expression of his disgust with people in general. Hicks often veered between hope and love for the human race and utter hopelessness. In the same gig, he yelled at a female heckler, calling her a, "drunk cunt" and forced her to leave, telling her to "go see something GOOD!"



And the video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4xbJ8QhE8Us&mode=related&search=

[Ms. Clio]

182. thanks very much for the info and the link

That was raw. It's also interesting that immediately afterwards he says something like, "I look like a real a-hole, don't I?"

Yeah, he did.

[klook]

183. Careericide

There's no excuse for what Richards did. I'm really disappointed, because I liked him from the days he was on "Fridays." Until now.

Maybe if he speaks up and works on behalf of Black people's rights every day for the rest of his life, just maybe he can come close to making up for this.

[brettdale]

185. nothing can excuse what he said

It was really really bad, but if we are going to judge, we need to see the whole tape, and what happened before hand, my take was that he was just a very very poor standup comedian who couldn't take getting heckled, and he lashed out, he also seem genuine with his sorry on letterman, but he doesnt seem to be in a good place.

Im still a huge fan of Seinfeld though.

[Name removed]

186. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Minnesota_Lib]

187. Good riddance, freeper loser.