The Dems may have just lost their base

[JMDEM]

How can anyone support the Democratic Party as a whole anymore? How can the Democrats EVER complain about anything Bush does with any validity any more?

Who is Randi Rhodes, Al Franken, and the rest of the Air America crew going to blame now? Ourselves? What became crystal clear today is that the Dems are just as responsible for the mess our country is in as the Republicans. Just as responsible.

There's nobody left to complain about. Iraq -- Dems went along. Screw you bankruptcy law -- Dems went along. Ratifying the stolen election -- all Dems but 1 went along. Turning the Supreme Court into a rubber stamp for BushCo -- the Dems went along.

And so how are the Dems EVER going to collect another penny from anyone but corporations? And why should the corporations give to the Dems when the Republicans are far more effective at making them rich?

The whole house of cards came down today. Nobody left to blame but ourselves. How sad. We are just as complicit as the Republicans in every way, shape and form.

When Dems campaign in November, how can anyone see any difference between them and the Republicans? How can they generate any anger at the other side? They not only lost their base, they lost all leverage. All leverage.

Oh, all those nasty investigations into Republican corruption you say? Don't be surprised if most of them just sort of quietly disappear.

[Burning Water]

1. where are we gonna go? n/t

[JMDEM]

3. I have no idea.

No idea whatsoever. I just know I lost most of my enthusiasm and hope.

[GreenPartyVoter]

17. Well that's the trouble with a two party system where the most money

wins. It might be ok if funding and media coverage were equal for all candidates because then there'd be a better shot for progressives in the primaries... but with DIEBOLD in the mix to boot, it almost make voting seem pointless.

------------------------------------------------------
How about some freakin’ election reform already?!

[Dukkha]

31. Canada?

Fuck America! It is lost for good to the Jesus freaks.

[Ignacio Upton]

83. Well, the Conservatives just won their election up there

Wanna try Mexico?

[AngryAmish]

59. The Greens are loons

I am so upset. i may quit.

[The Backlash Cometh]

2. Let's be accurate. The DNC, the DLC and the 19 traitors lost their base.

We need to remember the good 25 Dems who represented us and support them.

Just don't donate to the DNC or DLC because the money may go to the 19 traitors.

[...of J.Temperance]

9. So what other Democratic organization is there after the DNC and DLC?

What other Democratic organization raises as much money for our Democratic politicians and candidates?

[Ramsey]

11. Or the DSCC

If you want ot contribute, make it to individuals.

[The Backlash Cometh]

22. Give it to the 25 AND get bio information on candidates who are

running against the 19 or Republicans. I didn't say it was going to be easy. But cut out the middle man. That way, you're in complete control of where your donation goes.

[FreedomAngel82]

24. Right

[yurbud]

13. problem is, the 'brand' is getting tarnished

even a good candidate will have to prove they are not a sold out coward.

The Democrats have been doing this so consistently the last couple of years, that it's hard to even imagine them putting up a real fight, and if you read the DLC webpage, it sounds like they are compromising before they even get to the table.

[DinahMoeHum]

19. I wouldn't blame the DNC or Howard Dean for this. . .

Right now, he's been too busy rebuilding the Democratic Party at the state and local levels so that we can compete with the 'Pukes at every level, from dogcatcher to US Senator. Completely different tack from the DLC-DSCC-DCCC types.

And from that, Dean is inspiring the "netroots" orgs like DailyKos, BandofBrothers2006, the PDA and the DFA.

:kick:

[The Backlash Cometh]

28. I won't waste my time on the DNC. The DNC from Colorado calls

me for donations. Why should I bother giving it to them if even 1 penny may go to Salazar. Christ, I live in Florida and I'm not even a registered Democrat. So the Colorado DNC can go fuck themselves.

[donco6]

74. That explains Dean, but what about the DNC?

I do hold them responsible. In what sense are they not?

[Andromeda]

55. The DNC does NOT give money...

to the Senate or Congressional Democrats. Please don't stop giving money to the DNC. All Democrats need the DNC and when you stop your support it hurts ALL Democrats because the DNC gives money to Democrats who run for local and state elections.

Howard Dean raises this money to build the Democratic party from within (state-by-state).

The DSCC and the DCCC are the organizations that give donations to the US Senators and the House. If you have a beef with them regarding how they pick candidates to run, call them and register your complaints. Chuck Schumer and Rahm Emanuel, respectively, head these groups.

[donco6]

76. Um, sorry. I've given a lot to the DNC, but never again.

I believe they are the ones responsible for this entire series of weak-willed responses to Alito, bankruptcy, Iraq - even just calling Bush on his lies. They are a feeble crew and need to go. I won't support them until I see a radical change of leadership in the DNC.

[Gothic Sponge]

4. The party was bought out.

It is not the same party from the days of FDR. I will never vote for a Dem again.

[Deja Q]

84. *DING DING DING* we have a winner!

I will never vote Dem again either. I'd rather save the time and do something productive: Eat my toe fungus.

[knight_of_the_star]

5. Time to make it happen

Big Money has held the party hostage for too long, we have to bust out the long knives and purge the rot from the party.

[...of J.Temperance]

6. Total nonsense

We haven't lost our base. The base will still vote Democratic like they always do.

Who else will the base vote for eh? The Green Party? Yes of course...NOT.

Vote Green Elect Repukes.

[Gothic Sponge]

10. I'd rather take my chance on a Green

[...of J.Temperance]

14. The Green will only elect the Repuke...just ask Ralph Nader n/t

[Gothic Sponge]

16. So, what is the difference between a repug and a dem?

They both support the same agenda. One is just the lesser of two evils. I'm sorry, but I can no longer vote for this party.

[...of J.Temperance]

18. Would Al Gore or Bill Clinton or John Kerry or John Edwards have done

What Junior and the Repukes have done?

No, so that's the answer to your question.

[LincolnMcGrath]

26. Reality Check!

.32% Percent does not a spoiler make.

Perot = Spoiler

Nader = Insignificant

This is not about Nader or the Leftists. This failure falls square on the back of Centrists.

[...of J.Temperance]

32. How many votes did Ralph Nader get in Florida in 2000?

A lot more than Junior got that state by eh? Had the fucking asshole Nader have kept his ugly butt out in 2000, the majority of his voters would have voted for Al Gore.

There's nothing wrong with us Centrist Democrats, we are the mainstream.

If the fringe want to put their agenda to the country then fine, however the mainstream of the country won't vote for that.

President Clinton and Vice-President Gore, both Centrists and both winners.

On Edit: Dammit spelling error.

[Gothic Sponge]

35. And Centrist Democrats help support the republican agenda.

I'll put my vote with the Greens.

[...of J.Temperance]

40. What like on being pro-Social Security, pro-Minimum Wage and

Pro-Choice you mean?

You vote for the Greens, there's a Green Underground. I'll vote for my party, the Democratic Party, that's why I post at Democratic Underground.

[Andromeda]

56. Excuse me???

I'm a centrist Democrat and I really take exception to your stupid comment that I support the Republican agenda.

No moderate Dems that I know support the Republican agenda so that statement is just plain false.

Go and join the Greens---they deserve you.

[rman]

66. Which centrist/moderate Dem that you know voted against

the new bankruptcy law?

How do you call Dems who did vote in favor of it?

[Andromeda]

80. Not all centrist Dems vote the way I'd like them to.

But I'm not a one-issue Democrat and I've learned to accept the fact that I'm not going to be happy with everything they do. I don't expect perfection and I do believe people can change and redeem themselves.

My view is that ANY Democrat is better than a room full of Republicans and if that Democrat is the only game in town at election time then I will vote for the Democrat.

We need to support the Democratic party and be united, even though everything is not as it should be. When we regain power we will be in a better position to weed out the bad apples.

[LincolnMcGrath]

37. Reality Check Time

Gore lost Florida to a stuttering moran because he ran a bad campaign. Gore should have won Florida by 15%. 15% percent would have covered the vote fraud and the small 'other party' voters.

Centrist Dems are the problem, they are the cause of voter apathy among working folks.

Do some research on past presidential elections and you will see how insignificant Nader was.

[in_cog_ni_to]

43. BINGO! BINGO! BINGO! Those "sensible center" Dems

Have RUINED this party. We need to start our OWN Progressive Democratic Party.

[Ani Yun Wiya]

79. Nader was not the problem

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=49624&mesg_id=49624&page=#51782

[Starbucks Anarchist]

60. Is 3.9% small enough?

http://uselectionatlas.org/USPRESIDENT/state.php?year=2000&fips=33&f=1

If the New Hampshire Naderites had voted for Gore, the 2000 results would be Gore - 270 and Bush - 268. I'd call that a spoiler.

[LincolnMcGrath]

68. For a General, historically speaking it is a statistical non issue.

Tell me the percentage of UNION workers who voted for Bush because of centrist ideals like N.A.F.T.A.?

Tell me the percentage of work-a-day-average-Joes who abstained because they feel they will not be heard by either party?


From your own link;

1996 #s Independent 48,390 9.7% And yet somehow BC managed to win NH. :eyes:


NH1996 Indies and Others 11.3%
NH2000 Indies and Others 5.1%

Nader can bite me, but he is not the reason for any lose, anywhere, at any time.

[Shortyfuse]

7. Yes Yes

And the Liberterian Party is the answer for those Republicans that are sick of Bush. Spread the word at their sites.

[corporate_mike]

8. Don't forget rubberstamping all spending bills

and raise in national debt level

[NoPasaran]

12. Bullshit

I am part of the base and I'm not going anywhere. We are rebuilding this party from the base up. It's the deadwood at the top who've had their day.

[guidod]

50. I agree. BULLSHIT!

A lot of dem politicians heard us today and sat with their tails between their legs. The shavings are floating to the top and it's time to get the skimmer.

[SammyWinstonJack]

63. Thank you! My family is part of the base and we're NOT going anywhere!

EVER!


edited for spelling

[democrank]

15. Want to listen to a real Democrat ?

Tonight
Wes Clark
C-Span 8:50 EDT

He`ll show `em how it`s done!

[Clark2008]

27. Which CSPAN?

I can't find it on their schedules.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[and-justice-for-all]

21. Go Independent!!!

Looks like its time to form a completely new party....the NO PARTY-PARTY.

[MoonRiver]

67. Does the Independent Party have a website?

I tried googling it but got what looked like some religious party.

[jn2375]

23. Thinking the same thing myself

[ChipsAhoy]

25. JMDEM - Salute!

You are spot on!!!!

[stepnw1f]

29. Yuh... Like Ditto Maaaan

Go to hell!

[and-justice-for-all]

30. Can someone explain this......

This is on the DNC website:

Governor Dean:

"Today, an outside the mainstream nominee who refused to be forthcoming with the Senate moved one step closer to confirmation. Over the course of his confirmation hearings and through an evaluation of his writing and records, Americans learned that Judge Alito is committed to a radical agenda that threatens Americans’ individual rights and freedoms. Because Judge Alito simply must not be allowed to use a lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court to advance that agenda, Democrats on the Judiciary Committee stood together to protect Americans' individual rights and freedoms in voting against this nomination.

While Judge Alito dodged legitimate questions about his judicial record and philosophy, his agenda is clear. His troubling support of unchecked executive power, in light of current scandals over the President's domestic spying program, should concern all Americans. He supports intrusive government power over individual liberties, and has failed to protect crucial Family Medical Leave protections. He used legal technicalities to excuse gross sexual harassment, and supported prosecutors who constructed all-white juries to try black defendants. Worse still, Judge Alito broke his promise to the Senate to recuse himself from cases in which he had a clear conflict of interest-a deeply troubling failure in light of the current Republican corruption scandals.

When the full Senate votes on this nomination, Judge Alito should be rejected."


SO WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED?????

[NVMojo]

33. the Party has been screwing their base for a long time, just like Repukes

at some point, the little man and woman will unite and rise up.

[seabeyond]

34. because there were a lot of dems the DID stand up for you

get out the bad, but how dare you walk on those that supported what we asked for

[Wordie]

38. Exactly. They took a principled stand - don't respond with friendly fire!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

36. Bullshit. n/t

[...of J.Temperance]

39. Hey I'd like a root beer with this driveby n/t

On Edit: Dammit spelling error.

Aarrgghh!!

[pstans]

41. The Democratic Party just identified their base

We know what Senators stand with us. We now know the power the Liberal Blogosphere has. We showed our strength and made a stand. We have drown the line in the sand and now it is time to build on it.

[mello1]

42. Damn, it's sad... but...

I have to agree. The problem here is that no one wants to back someone who appears weak. Standing for your convictions mean something.

I liked one thing that Dean did. When he went on TV interviews to talk about the Abramoff scandal, he made it very clear that Dems did not take money from Abramoff directly and he would not back down off of that.

I'm looking for stand up people and the Dems are too worried about how it's being spun instead of saying and doing what they mean by their convictions and sticking to it.

That's the only way you deal with a bully. You have to look the scumbags in the eye and never back down. Until the Dems learn this, they will be continue to be losers.

[ChipsAhoy]

44. Good insight

That is the insult I have heard time and again - that we appear weak.
We saw that in the traitors just today.

But, I see a lot of strong folks on this site. Wish we could unite as one big huge voice.

[JMDEM]

45. I would say that today's vote

Makes that too late. Too late.

[ChipsAhoy]

52. Sadly,

I agree.

G'night.

[MissB]

71. Welcome to DU!

Enjoy your stay!

[MissB]

70. Welcome to DU!

Enjoy your stay!

[ChipsAhoy]

90. Thanks

So far, so good. Lots of smart folks here.

[cry baby]

46. nah, not gonna lose the base, but nice try!

Not blaming myself either...another nice try!

House of cards will be rebuilt...once again, nice try!

You should be askeered...our voices are louder than ever now, and growing even louder.

[EndElectoral]

47. What a split...is there a Progressive Party you can vote for?

[EndElectoral]

48. Could Gore run as a 3rd Party Candidate?

[Tatiana]

49. The Democratic Base is Right Here.

What we have to do is find a way to get members of office elected who represent us.

If nothing else, we found out who truly represents our interests with the cloture vote.

[Cocoa]

51. enjoy it while it lasts

the dems are going to kick your ass soon. :bounce:

[incapsulated]

53. *grin*

We think alike, methinks.

[upi402]

54. I'm gone. I WILL WORK AGAINST THEM!

effum

[ChipsAhoy]

57. After a bad night's sleep ....

I'm feeling the same as you. So damn disappointed.

[dennisnyc]

58. the author seems unaware of the Progressive Caucus in Congress

i can point you to the recent issue of the Nation for a idea of what they're doing...

[Strong Atheist]

61. Of course there are MAJOR differences! NGU! nt.

[LeftHander]

62. Progressive Democrat Party

The time has come for a party split. Progressive Democrats can more effectively leverage our numbers if we take the 20 odd senators and 80 or so reps and form a new party with better discipline and a unified party platform.

We can also form a coalition with the Greens. Something that has long been and assumption made by the arrogance of the Democratic party.

The first steps are to locate a suitable forum location to base operations out of and start recruiting Senators and Representatives both at the state and local levels to leave the Democratic party and form a new party. (Meetup.com will likely be the location)

Progressive Democrat citizens need to know that this is the way. The first step is to recruit a leader already on the national stage. Who shares the values and platform that focuses on:

Peace
Clean Renewable Energy
Universal Healthcare
Election Reform
Sane Military Spending
Infrastructure
Free Quality Education
Public Media Ownership
Corporate Responsibility
Choice
Separation of Church and State
Marriage Equity

Lets get some Progressive Democrats to sign on.

Lets raise funds.

Lets build it from the top down, the bottom up sideways and diagonally.

Lets start our own game....and make a party with a unified vision for the future of America. Designed to not WORK with CONSERVATIVES one with a longe term vision of peace and life on a planet in a post oil dependent FREE society.

[pberq]

64. Bush enabler Democrats

http://www.buzzflash.com/index.php?story=Story3

. . .The biggest thing that the entrenched Democrats are worried about is that the pro-Democracy Democrats will stop giving money to the old Guard Bush enabler Democrats. They still don't think that the progressives will mount successful primary challenges to Dems who sell out democracy (the right wing Republicans have been picking off moderates in just such a way for at least two decades), but Joe Lieberman is starting to break into a sweat. (And given his vote to end the filibuster on Monday, he should now really be worried.)

So, whenever you get the chance, let a Bush-lite elected official know that you won't be sending them a check -- and let the Democratic Senate Campaign Committee and Harry Reid know that you won't send them money, but will only send cash individually to Democratic candidates that you feel advance democracy and an agenda for the common good of the nation. But do send THOSE candidates who stand up for democracy contributions. They will need it.

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

65. We didn't lose our base

We do however, have a list of Senators who need replacing by real democrats. They should no longer be called democrats, but Vichycrats for the Vichy French who collaborated with the Nazi occupiers during WWII.

The following Vichycrats voted for Alito.

Akaka
Baucus
Bingaman
Byrd
Cantwell
Carper
Conrad
Dorgan
Inouye
T. Johnson
Kohl
Landrieu
B. Lincoln
Lieberman
Nelson (FL)
Nelson (NE)
Pryor
Rockefeller
Salazar

Note how many of the chickenshits also voted for the credit card company sponsored bankruptcy bill:

Baucus
Bingaman
Byrd
Carper
Conrad
Inouye
T. Johnson
Kohl
Landrieu
B. Lincoln
Lieberman
Nelson (FL)
Nelson (NE)
Pryor
Salazar

[BikeWriter]

69. Defeatist rhetoric accomplishes nothing.

[greekspeak]

85. Neither does enabling the Pukes.

I take that back...it does accomplish something. Less rights for the common American, more money for the rich.

It is time to demand ALL dems in the House and Senate be proactive. I am tired of being screwed over. Yeah, 24 dems and 1 independant stood up. 20 failed America, either by not voting correctly or not voting at all. That is defeatist. It defeats AMERICA. Demanding justice from the government is NOT defeatist rhetoric. Refusing to blindly follow puke enablers is NOT defeatist rhetoric.

Why not just vote Repuke? I have Nelson and Harris in Florida to choose from. I have Harris...I know where that piece of trash stands. Or I can vote for Nelson, who likes to speak out both sides of his mouth by screwing us over. Sure...no to Alito. That doesnt take guts. What takes guts is standing up and saying we will not even tollerate a vote on this piece of fascist scum. And he failed. He failed on the bankruptcy reform too. The "centrist" puke-clone enablers are the ones with the defeatist rhetoric. Those like the original poster want change and victory. Not defeat.

[eagler]

72. After all this it is now more important than ever to come together

for the 2006 election!

[Th1onein]

73. Is that you again, Karl?

n/t

[cynatnite]

75. Time for a third party, I say...

Repukes are worthless and Dems have just rolled over. It's no wonder most people are sick and tired of the bullshit.

[paulk]

77. boo - fucking - hoo

another defeatist crybaby thread


:cry:


waaaa! waaaaa!

[AgadorSparticus]

88. well then, lets support with glee the ones we have in office and be

satisfied with more of the same shit. A WHOLE lot more of the same shit. There's not a whole lot else to lose, actually. Might just be a good idea.... crybaby, whiner, drama queen, any more cute names you'd like to add to the pot? Should we focus on GOTV again? So that the next election can be just as rigged as '04 and maybe we can take it to the supreme court and have it dismissed by Alito now. Wouldn't that be fun???!!?! But hey, I'm a die hard DEM, dammit!!!

[ikojo]

78. They don't care. They're after the corporate money

and since most of them move in and around the top 10% they wont notice as well.

Working people? Who are they?

[upi402]

81. Heads in the sand furthers fascism, DINO's harm democracy

wake up

[More Than A Feeling]

82. Does anyone support the Democratic Party as a whole?

It's not a requirement of being a Democrat. All of us have disagreements with the party, of one degree or another. My plan is to work to replace those Dems who have gone way over the line, the "Alito 19". Do you support primarying them?

[McCamy Taylor]

86. The "Base" hates W. Now the Dems are courting the Independents.

Sorry if this hurts the bases' feelings (I am part of the base, too), but the base isnt going to be courted this year, it is going to be mnoderate Repubs and Independents.

[LynneSin]

87. Waves hand - right here!!! I can and I will

what, divide the party even more so we have even more republican rule

Hell no!!

[mdmc]

89. Welcome to DU. Hang in there

not too many other games in town. perhaps pda...

[meow2u3]

91. Just what the neocons want--your talk about divided Dems

This attitude among some DUers (who may be freepers in disguise or agents provocateurs) is the last thing we need. Enough of the damned infighting. No more shit like that. Understood?

Now is the time to band together, for as one famous Founding Father put it: "We must hang together or we'll all hang separately."