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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 09:25 PM
Original message
Well-meaning Dems and hostile bloggers continue to attack Kerry...
RW lies about Kerry and "left wing" apologies for what they see as Kerry's "misstatement about our troops" continues unabated. We must hammer on these assholes until it stops.

Even if you hate Kerry, you can't allow this bullying to continue. It empowers the media to lie about anyone to the left of Kerry, and that means you.

Uwe (mumble), a Princeton economics and foreign policy expert, denounced Kerry's remarks in a Post op-ed Saturday but went on to say in an insightful commentary that unfortunately, Kerry was right.

But Uwe is WRONG. His is the right answer to the wrong person.

"Kerry" was NOT "right" about this issue because that is not what Kerry MEANT.

Just as with the swift-boat attacks and the baseless allegations that Kerry could've contested the 2004 election with the info he had available to him,

We were wrong about the intelligence of some of our allies in the media and amongst anti-Kerry pols.

People do NOT know that Kerry meant Bush and we are NOT doing enough to defend Kerry unless we take time (after the election, which won't hinge on this issue anyway) to defend him.

Folks on DU said this was a dead issue because "well meaning intelligent people" know what Kerry meant.

Uwe, and David Corn, and other Dems, who still think Kerry meant the troops, have proven us wrong.

Here is the e-mail I sent to RealClearPolitics. Someone else needs to e-mail Uwe at Princeton.

(see Uwe's op-ed above.)

-----


To: RealClearPolitics


Subject: Your Distortion of Kerry Joke is Either "Breathtakingly Arrogant" or Misinformed


It seems Repubs have found a new way to tar people with "he insulted the troops" thereby replacing the old "soft on Communism" libel.

Any misstatement or remark can now be construed as proof of "anti-troops" attitude, and the media will knowingly buy into it and say "he can't seem to shake the label, that's showbiz!"


Since the first rule of debate is to be charitable, I will assume that
RCP understands the meaning of Kerry's joke, and how he flubbed it by
dropping a pronoun, since he has been giving the joke for two years now,
as have Jay Leno (who got it from Kerry).

I will assume that RCP does not get its information solely from CNN, but
in fact relies on primary sources, such as the transcript of campaign
speeches and the accounts of people familar with Kerry's stump speech
such as Bill O'Reilly and McCain himself.

I have yet to see RCP or any other left- or right-wing blogger or media
talker (including David Corn and Saletan of Slate, recently featured on
TV alternately trashing and wrongheadedly "defending" Kerry's remarks)
to --retract-- your allegations about Kerry's campaign joke.

Kerry has been using this joke in his stump speech for over 2 years now.

Jay Leno borrowed the joke from Kerry and has -also- been using it for
over 2 years whenever the subject comes up regarding Bush and education.

The joke is about Bush and education, and has nothing to do with
military service, neither Bush's or anyone else's. Since the troops are
not even referenced in the joke or in the rest of the statement, you
can't even pretend that Kerry was insinuating anything by comparing
Bush's education levels to that of the troops. Any such comparison would
be unfavorable to Bush and insulting to the troops, which is why Kerry
did not mention Bush's military service.

Kerry's media transcript was provided to the media that day clearly
states what Kerry was attempting -- a joke about Bush being uneducated
and getting us into Iraq.

(Which he, like many Americans, probably confused with Iran for much of
his adult life. A recent study by a nonpartisan think tank found that
most congressmen cannot tell apart Shia from Sunni, can't tell you which
ones are Iranian and which ones are Iraqi, and CNN in December 1990
declared that "war with Iran is imminent" after Saddam invaded Kuwait.)

Being highly educated bloggers I am sure that RCP was never counted
among the ranks of the educated but misinformed. I'll even bet you
studied the history of that region in high school, or at least read a
book on the subject in college, like most educated Americans. Our
troops, of course are the only Americans who have any incentive to learn
up on the subject, which is why they know more about it than you or I
who might not know what the word "Hajji" means, which Sadr Sadr City was
named for and who built it, or why Sammara is now a ghost town.

Being educated and interested in the subject, you know more about these
things than Bush or most of his allies in Congress, surprisingly enough.

NO reference to the troops is made in Kerry's joke. No reference to
Bush serving in the GUARD because he is uneducated, either.

(after all, that would be stupid: Bush is highly educated -- grades
notwithstanding -- and got out of serious duty BECAUSE of his education
and background, like many people in his income level. That is
thankfully no longer possible today, and as a result, our troops are
probably BETTER educated than their friends and relatives, being in the
armed services and all.)

In fact, the joke (which Leno has been using to great laughs for two
years with no complaints from bloggers) has nothing to do with military
service whatsoever.

Leno once botched the same joke in the same way Kerry did, dropping the
pronoun, "us" which messes up the meaning of the joke.

making it sound as if the troops, not Bush were the subject of the joke.

But to imply that this is intentional on the part of Leno, or Kerry, is
the most asinine form of sophistry on your part.

To imply that Kerry meant something different than Leno when he botched
the same joke in the same way (a joke that Leno borrowed FROM Kerry) is
a double standard. It's no better than idiots who rely on Bush stumbling over his words as their primary source of ire, and ignore the deeper issues.

Here is the joke - as Kerry & Leno have given it for the last two years:

"Kids, education is important. Stay in school or you could end up as
President of the United States (and get us into a failed war in Iraq.")


Note the dropped pronoun "US".

That is the only mistake Kerry made, as becomes quite clear from the
context (as you so helpfully put on your website.) I myself was unable
to make head or tail of Kerry's meaning (listening to Ed Schultz, I
asked why Schultz was defending Kerry's comments) until I looked back on
the campaign trail and discovered references to the original joke.

Then it became quite clear what Kerry meant (and I am hardly a big Kerry
supporter) and when I found out that the media "on the ground" had heard
this stump speech a million times and knew that it was a flubbed
reference to Bush, in a speech that had nothing to do with troops one
way or the other, I was livid. The media an uninformed bloggers, who
had forgotten their own commenting on Kerry's joke when he first started
using it in '04, were flexing their muscles once again in an effort to
sway the election, to benefit their favorite moneymakers: George Bush
and Hillary Clinton.

This joke got Leno into big trouble once, with his audience, who thought
he was referring to the troops and not Bush -- for about 5 seconds.

Leno, being smart, did not apologize to you, RCP, or to Hillary, or to
the troops (who are better educated than the population at large and
know what Kerry meant.) or assume his TV audience was as stupid as the
studio booers. Instead, he said, in that famous Leno voice "Oh,
SHADDUP! You know what I meant. It sounded better in rehearsal."

If however you feel it was intentional, I urge you to call on Jay Leno
to apologize.

His democratic "opponents" (Hillary? her husband made great hay
attacking a rapper once) did not.

Otherwise, I anticipate a retraction on your blog.

Feel free to do so after the election.

As Derek McGinty said at the end of the aforementioned TV talk show
where he and Saletan pronounced Kerry dead

(after declaring that the incident proved Kerry's unworthiness as a
person) in response to a letter, McGinty said:

"Yes, we in the media all know what Kerry actually meant.

But the TV audience does not. Is that our fault?

for not telling people the context? Maybe. But that's politics."


On the other hand, Bill O'Reilly was quite familiar with the context
of the joke (Kerry, after all, invented it in '04) and came to Kerry's
defense.

I rest my case.

By the way, I am not writing this because of the election because I know
it makes no difference to the outcome. I am writing this because of the
deeply disturbing sophistry it reveals in the attempts by media and
bloggers to shape the perceptions of Americans who are quite
well-educated but sadly uninformed, as I was about the context of this
joke which sophists like McCain and media talkers have twisted knowingly
to their own advantage.

The rules of civil discourse we inherited from Aristotle and Socrates
were created for a reason: to prevent dishonest dialogue, such as that
practiced by the Sophists, which had real and deadly consequences in
matters of state.

One of those rules is to be charitable to your opponent:
interpret his remarks in the most favorable light he can reasonably be
assumed to have made them, and rebut accordingly.

Have the "new media" thrown the rules of journalistic discourse (which
descend from Socrates and the Enlightenment) out the window when they
embraced moral relativism and their detached postmodern ideology?

Or were they, as Adlai Stephenson was famously MIS-quoted in a similar
swift-boat attack, "just too damn dumb to understand" Kerry's remark?
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. This incident with Senator Kerry was particularly ugly. For me, it will
be something I remember for a long time. What is frightening is that no politician is safe from this dirty trick. If any one of them thinks they are above a flub or having their words twisted and redefined they had better think again. As for the so called end of Kerry,I think they can forget about that. This is a man on a mission. And for that, I am grateful.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
2. Digby - Perverting Reality
The whole piece is good, this snip for your thread:

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2006_11_01_digbysblog_archive.html#116278777424008117

First you had the John Kerry flap. After the first news cycle everyone knew he'd blown a punchline. There were even plenty of conservatives who admitted it. But that didn't matter. What mattered was forcing him to apologize for something he never said. It was a pure act of force, as if they put their foot on his neck and demanded that he agree that "up is down and black is white" --- a modern show trial in which Kerry agreed to confess in order to spare his party's chances in the upcoming election. He instinctively resisted, as sane people always do when forced to deny reality. But the sheer power of the coordinated Republican outcry (with the willing help of cynical Dems and the media) finally made it imperative for him to issue an apology for something he never said.

And the Republicans laughed and laughed because once again they had forced a leading Democrat to bow to their will as surely as if they'd physically held him down and made him agree that black was white and up was down. It was all the more delicious because every party to it, the Republicans, the Democrats, the public, the media and John Kerry himself all knew the real truth. Now that's power.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 06:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. Fortunately, digby, JK apologized to troops offended by the MISINTERPRETATION
and still stuck his ground against those who pushed the willful misinterpretation.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
3. This is an absolutely amazing post -
It contains many things I never heard - and I am one of the JK group people reading all about the way a very explainable flubb of a line was taken to completely trash a man with a 35 yr history of supporting the troops.
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tuvor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
4. And didn't it take the Republicans a full day before they "realized" that
the troops had been "insulted"?
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fedupinBushcountry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. You mean
to twist it into a swift boat lie, right?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
5. GOP extends anti-troop smear to Murtha, Rangel, Conyers, other Democrats
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Island Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 06:30 AM
Response to Original message
7. Thank you so much for this incredible post.
One of the most bitter ironies of this whole thing is that John Kerry has spent much of the '06 campaign season raising money and making campaign appearances for "Fighting Dem" candidates.

If this is how the game is to be played, I do hope the "media" and bloggers everywhere listen to each and every word that each and every potential presidential candidate (Democrat and Republican) utters for the next two years, and reports back to us all of with their slip-ups. That should take care of the need to report any actual news in the foreseeable future. :crazy:
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 06:46 AM
Response to Original message
9. You don't apologize to a bully!
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. You don't, but the Dems who were afraid of Blinky made him n/t
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Apollo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 06:57 AM
Response to Original message
10. It was a dumb joke to begin with ...
Edited on Tue Nov-07-06 07:01 AM by Apollo11
Let me quote back a couple of things in your original post:

The joke is about Bush and education <...>

Kerry's media transcript was provided to the media that day clearly
states what Kerry was attempting -- a joke about Bush being uneducated
and getting us into Iraq. <...>

NO reference to the troops is made in Kerry's joke. No reference to
Bush serving in the GUARD because he is uneducated, either.
(after all, that would be stupid: Bush is highly educated -- grades
notwithstanding -- and got out of serious duty BECAUSE of his education
and background, like many people in his income level. <...>

You see where some of the confusion comes from there? Is Bush highly educated .. or uneducated? It kinda matters if you want folks to understand and appreciate the whole joke.

So it was a dumb joke to begin with (sorry, but even if Jay Leno told it on TV -- doesn't make it a good joke).

Another wider question is: Is it smart for Democratic leaders to try telling jokes about the Iraq War the week before the mid-term elections? My answer is no - that would be evidence of poor judgement (IMHO).

So you see it's not all about one pronoun. There is a wider issue about judgement and sensitivity and making smart choices and being an effective communicator.

I agree with commentators who say that Kerry is now out of the frame for 2008. I'm sorry if that is a personal disappointment to you. But I'm sure we will be able to find another Presidential candidate who is at least as good at getting a clear message across to the American people.

In Gore We Trust :-)
www.algore.org
www.draftgore.com
www.draftgore2008.org
www.patriotsforgore.com
www.climatecrisis.net
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Apollo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. A couple of jokes that work ...
"On Wednesday, Kerry said he wouldn't apologize. On Thursday, he apologized. Today, he said, 'It doesn't matter. It just feels great to be flip-flopping again.'." --Bill Maher

"People were wondering what the Republicans were going to use as their secret weapon to help turn the election around. Who would have guessed it would be John Kerry?." --Jay Leno
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. and in my book, both Leno and Maher are *ssholes who are part of the problem
both of them spread the lies of the Republican Slime Machine just to be cute.
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dwahzon Donating Member (338 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
13. Thanks
for posting this Leopolds Ghost.

Please check your DU pm mailbox. I sent you a PM sometime ago.

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tomreedtoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
14. Partially true; but it does show Kerry's problems.
Kerry's problem is not that he blew a joke. It's that he attempted to tell a joke, to sound like a mensch, and he isn't. He never was, and his attempts to be so during the 2004 campaign lead to his downfall.

Whatever political positions he may take, and however good they may be, Kerry is not a man who relates to people. On TV, the only place that counts because that's how the majority sees him, he is stiff, uncomfortable around people, a wallflower. And that's deadly for a person who is supposed to inspire and encourage people.

His continued attempt to win the nomination and run for President again is too much like the Republicans wanting to go to war against Iraq again, to "prove they can do it right this time." Or like people I know who are itching to re-fight the Vietnam War.

He might be good in a Cabinet post. He might even be a good Vice President; they don't do much of anything except in Republican administrations. But he should know his limitations and abide by them, not throw them in our faces.

He has made himself a stick with which the Republicans have beaten every Democratic candidate. And all because Pinocchio wanted to prove he was a real boy, not a hunk of wood.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
16. Tom Brokaw and Leon Harris compare Kerry's statement to George Allen
Edited on Wed Nov-08-06 01:19 AM by Leopolds Ghost
On Election Night coverage, declare Kerry and Allen "the big losers".

Say "their presidential aspirations may be over" and for "similar reasons"
and equate the two's statements. They also allude to knowing exactly what Kerry meant, yet fail to convey it to the audience.

Apparently criticism of Bush = insulting the troops = use of the n-word = stuffing a deer head in a mailbox.

ALSO I think Tavis Smiley compared Kerry to Allen??? Someone else did.
It was highly insulting "conventional wisdom".

This will be the new playing field, the new goal posts, if Kerry & Dems do not go on the offensive to burnish Kerry and rip Allen now that the election is over and Allen is trailing. This is the wedge, folks.
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Apollo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 05:55 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Wedge this!
That's a real wedge issue to fight until the last man is standing ....

The right for our leaders to badly bungle ill-considered bad-taste jokes.

The Iraq war is not a laughing matter. Kerry is not a comedian.

Let's face facts. Kerry is no longer in the frame for 2008.

Still we have so much to celebrate !!!! :-)
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